Trojans Destroy Bruins In Pauley, Play Like Warriors Exposing A Clownshow In Howlandwood
by Nestor on Jan 16, 2010 6:20 PM PST
in Basketball
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PrintThe game is not over. However, since the Bruins quit from the opening tip off not sure why need to maintain our faith Howland's clowns (we will keep calling them that as long as we have clowns like the Bricklayer From Belgrade starting for a "UCLA basketball team" rest of this season).
Well I saw this coming. I have written multiple times here on BN how the Trojans from across town have been playing like the classic Ben Ball warriors all season. Despite getting railroaded by their own athletic department, they have been playing with all out intensity and passion winning the same way we used to see Ben Ball warriors get it done in Westwood: fundamentals, hustle and DEFENSE.
Trojans put on a classic display of Ben Ball by dominating and destroying the Bruins at Pauley. The final score was 46-67. (we will fill in the blank when the clock strikes zero). The final margin could have been more lopsided if not for the fact that the Trojans are not the greatest of shooting team. Give all the credit to Kevin O'Neil and his basketball players for coming out and taking this game and making a statement on John and Nell Wooden Court. They owned UCLA on our home court.
Now turning it towards us. I could go through the box score and point out all the disgraceful performances on our team. It was a joke on all front and it showed early on. These guys came out and played like bunch of scrubs (B couldn't have been more on point weeks ago) and defiled those four letters infront of their jersey. There was no desire, no fire and not one ounce of Bruin pride coming out of any of these guys except for some isolated efforts here and there.
The person who bears the responsibility for this disgraceful performance is none other than the UCLA head basketball coach. If Ben Howland is the "caretaker of Westwood," I think at this point it is time to install a video camera on him to find out exactly what is he doing to take care of our Bruins. What we saw today was not acceptable. More after the jump.
I don't care much whatever coach-speak Ben Howland is going to throw out during his post game preser or his weekly presser early next week. At this point his woulda-coulda-shoulda nonsense how about he should have gone to zone early and perhaps play a younger players lot more is just meaningless Dorrellian words to me. They mean nothing.
It was just comedy to watch Howland try to make his clowns play man-to-man defense early on when it was clear they had nothing to hang with the Trojans. It took falling behind by double digits (4-15) and looking completely befuddled and hopeless early on for Howland to finally to switch to zone. It was too little too late because by then the Trojans had taken control of the game and had put a complete hammerlock on the contest. Not only they throttled us defensively they also out-willed and out-hustled us around the rims, outrebounding us 21 to 11, and scoring 11 second chance points just in first half.
Then there was the case of Howland's Matt Barkley, aka Nikola Dragovic. Once again the Serbian clown (he looked like one in those gross yellow socks) set the tone early on with dumb and stupid shots. Yet somehow, someway Howland gave him 17 minutes in first half even though he finished with 0 points and lord knows how many he gave up on the defensive side. I wonder just how much worse it would have been if Howland actually bothered to put in Lane and Moser and have them play in a zone defense early?
From what I see, I see probably one of the two worst UCLA basketball teams from this past decade. I see a team which is not playing up to its potential and playing without and heart and effort on too many Saturdays. I see a team where the players have tuned out the head coach and perhaps just frustrated and puzzled by the fact that the head coach is clearly playing favorites with certain characters on the team.
Well again credit to the Trojans. They came in played like Ben Ball warriors and exposed Howland's basketball team as nothing but a pathetic clown show. I will just reverse echo J.R. Henderson to describe Howland's joke of a basketball squad.
It's Just UCLA.
You can take it from here. I am too disgusted to write any more.
GO BRUINS.
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losing to suc by 21 at HOME is just pathetic
i haven’t seen such pathetic display against suc except when dorrell plays suc
I have become desensitized,
before this train wreck of a season, i always had a pit-in-my-stomach feel after every loss. I tried to avoid everyone and hoped they wouldn’t talk to me, now i could care less. I shrug my shoulders at the tv. It’s sad what it has come to.
"I can't believe I ate the whole thing" Homer Simpson
This sucks and all
But who didn’t think Lewis would go off, seriously.
Formerly ucla13_usc9
by Josh Schlichter on Jan 16, 2010 6:28 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Well
He is basically the best player, but who didn’t see him going off against a pathetic UCLA team, when he ALWAYS goes off against people like Affalo, Shipp, etc
Formerly ucla13_usc9
by Josh Schlichter on Jan 16, 2010 6:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If it were 1980
we would be in the Final Four
If it were 1980
Well …..
Reeves Nelson is NO Mike Sanders and Mike Lee is certainly no Rod Foster. Lets see now ….a freshman class of Daye, Foster and Holton or a freshman class of Moser, Lane and Nelson? Hmmmm, tough choice there.
Please note I didn't bring up the "F" word
However, we cannot be in denial. Tonight was unacceptable (in a string of unacceptable losses this season). A losing season this season will be unacceptable (and I have spelled out in detail why so). Next season we will need more than just a token tourney appearance from Ben Howland. And we will also see how he handles this team here on out.
There hasn’t been a shred of improvement in this team since the season started. Again, simply unacceptable.
A losing season is unacceptable...
but probably unavoidable at this point. To get to .500 by the end of the regular season we need to go 9-6 the rest of the way. Not gonna happen. We can’t count on getting a win in a Pac-10 tournament game, as we’re going to be playing a higher-seeded team.
by KSBruin on Jan 16, 2010 9:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I still think you're all crazy
There’s no way in the world Howland let’s this team go more than one year out of line. But we’ll see right?
Formerly ucla13_usc9
by Josh Schlichter on Jan 16, 2010 6:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Everyone back off or I'll shoot the sherriff
I don’t understand how everyone can be turning on Howland after one year. Yes, it is a piss poor, God awful year, but one year it is.
Clearly, Howland made a fundamental error in his recruiting evaluation. But do you think that he doesn’t know that? I believe that Howland is going to reboot by benching or getting rid of as many current players as he can and try to bring in as much fresh blood as possible.
Yes, he fucked up. Badly. As far as I am concerned, though, he has earned a chance to turn this pig around next season.
P.S. The quote in the subject line is from Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles. You geezers will get the reference.
I say next year....
it’s been pointed out by others longer watching that when CBH came in, he brought in players who were not top chips but hungry. While All Americans and top picks are always good, he brought in players proven to work hard. He needs to find those same players on the recruiting trail and build a new core.
My two favorite teams are UCLA and whoever is playing $C.
yup
we have a bunch of lazy players…sorry, but that is what i see. i’m not there in practice, but i see the way they “WORK” in the game. how many loose balls do we get? how many second chance points? are we boxing out anymore? hedging? bueller?
Incrediblely
Bad. Do they go over the wall at every practice? What do they do at practice?
Does anyone think Howland has done a good job recruiting athleticism?
I have said before, and now will repeat…we have no speed. I think people thought ML was fast, but Gerrity went right by him multiple times. Howland is going to have to release an assistant or something soon to save face and suggest that this bad recruiting was someone else’s responsibility.
Louisville, KY for UCLA class of '87
Funny thing...
People used to criticize Tim Floyd a bit for recruiting too many athletes and not enough “shooters” or “fundamentals” type players.
by Laughing Stock on Jan 16, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
defense more so than atheleticism is about heart
an example is RN that kid plays with all heart, not because of his athleticism
no, you're on to something
Howland has one athlete on that roster, Malcolm Lee, and even he looks kind of skinny. I watch a Kentucky, Duke, or Louisville and the contrast in the type of player to ours is striking. James Keefe, Nikola Dragovic, Michael Roll? For example, Roll was sped up all night. Good, balanced athletes would adjust. Roll had one shot in particular that I saw off the dribble that was off-balance and he’s just not fitting of a D-1 UCLA player. Roll should be a scout team player or someone down the depth chart. He’s trying, but we ultimately need better. And I like MIchael Roll and appreciate his contributions as a Bruin. I know I’m being harsh, but this is the truth.
You're not being harsh .....
It’s not that these kids aren’t D1 players, but they aren’t really Pac-10 players. Roll, Keefe, Nelson, Lane …..all belong in the WCC , Big Sky or Big West.
Depressing play all over the court
Their defense exposed our lack of offensive ability.
Their offense exploited their mismatches and showed what a difference having a genuine point guard can make.
We forced bad shots, committed some poor turnovers, got outhustled and ‘played dumb’ (for want of a better phrase).
RN would be my UCLA player of the game for his hustle, but for the dumb fouls on both ends are pretty depressing. I don’t know. Mustafa Abdul-Hamid our brightest spot?
howland's team never had any offensive ability
08-09 – lived and died with DC & JS jumpers
07-08 – took half a season to learn to throw it down to KLove
06-07 – couldn’t create against a more athletic Florida team
05-06 – see above
we got into 3 final 4s not because we can score, we never had a good offense, but it was because we played great defense, that resulted in turnovers, that resulted in points in transition….
with drago and co being blown by everyone this year, teams are scoring easily, and even when they missed, they can easily grab the OR and score…. not defensive stops, no defensive rebounds = no fast break points
after so many years of howland, we must admit howland is not an offensive coach…. he still try to run the same sets on offense as 5 years ago… baseline screen to get the 3 point shooter the open shot… thing is back then we have AA or at least JS taking those shot, now we have MR who can never get his shot off because he is too short too slow…
after so many years we continue to spend 20 secs on the shot clock passing around the perimeter….. it’s time to change…. how about more pick and rolls, how about more dribble kick, our best offense this year has been throws down the post to RN… which is pathetic….. i love RN as heck, but RN as the best player on a UCLA team, that’s an absolute joke…. maybe RN when he’s a senior but RN as a freshman….. this just makes me sick to the stomach what a joke this team has become
we are worse on both sides of the ball than in previous
In previous years, our offense was often efficient if not pretty. You mention points in transition – but the game tonight showed once again that even when we get a steal, we have no ability to convert the fast break, again something that wasn’t true in previous years. We don’t have good decision makers.
Our defense has definitely taken several steps back. None of our starters, with the possible exception of ML, are genuinely good defensive players. RN will be a very good defender as a sophomore power forward, but currently doesn’t have the size, athleticism and experience to be a good defensive center. MR and ND are both two slow and unathletic to play anyone on the perimeter. Watching ND trying to close out on the shooter on the weak side of the zone is just sad. TH has great athletic potential, but is out of position a lot and can’t play stronger players straight up yet (again, I believe he will be a very good sophomore small forward, but he isn’t there yet).
We are used to having 4 or 5 great defenders starting for us. CBH’s preferred man defense requires everyone to do their job well, with other people able to help if necessary. Our current players are unable to play their man, and our frontline is either too unathletic or too inexperienced to help effectively.
by britishbruin on Jan 16, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
hmmmm...
…defense is the great equalizer when a team faces a more athletic squad. truth is, you are correct. we have not had a good offensive TEAM since CBH came on board. good offensive players…yes. but that doesn’t make a lick of difference in our offense because we never exploit individual matchups. have we ever cleared out and let one guy go to work and draw the defense? when we pentrate all of our other players collapse, rather than spread the floor. i’d like to see ML on some isolation plays and dishing to a cutter. but we can’t do that because CBH forces our guys to jump stop, which is predictable. our entire offense is PREDICTABLE.
I liked M. A-H tonight as well.
Just of course looking for any bright spots, but at least he doesn’t hesitate and look like a “deer in the headlights” every time he has the ball. He had some crisp passes to the post, and also penetrated to score. (You can tell I am Pollyanna looking for anything positive to say) I remember (oh as LONG ago as Last Year) when UCLA vs. USC meant something on the BB court, and the underdogs (in this case…..UCLA) played lights out, hearts out on the floor. Boy, sure did NOT see it tonight. Anticlimax to a good Bruin week.
Rock bottom
I was there never have I been embarassed to be a bruin bball fan. Rick coming out at the half was the high point. Of course I had the pleasure of sitting near sum obnoxious classless suc fans the entire game. Where do we go from here. I’m at o’haras now drinking my pain away when is spring practice.
by uclamike on Jan 16, 2010 7:39 PM PST via mobile reply actions
How is that a team that lost players to the NBA
Lost their coach, and were sanctioned by their own school play with more heart. I do hold cbh accountable because this is unacceptable. Those letters have a lot of history and have a storied basketball tradition. We looked like a fucking joke out there. I don’t know what needs to be done because i don’t think firing him is the answer (yet) but you can see that the players are not getting his coaching. It seems as if they have given up on each other. I am just really upset right now. I expected a drop off, but not this bullshit.
we have better players,
better coach, more motivation, home court, better colors…and we still get blown out. pathetic.
Tonight was the first time I left Pauley early, I just couldn't take it anymore.
Our players have the athletic ability of teams like Weber St. or Utah St. The only positives today was when CRN addressed the crowd at halftime and then he chuckled at my buddies ketchup and mustard t-shirt with the line “Cheat On” and 5 with $ on the back.
Bottom line: we need to recruit and nab athletic ballers now. We can’t continue to recruit players that only fit CBH’s system (glorified screeners and slow on D)
by UCLA Championships Made Here on Jan 16, 2010 7:53 PM PST reply actions
DE-FENCE
I know Ben hates the zone BUT if Pat Summitt with 1000 wins multiple national championships has reluctantly used it when her personnel and/or the competition dictates. The first rule is adapt to your players-you recruited them. As far as Drago is concerned-if we must use him-bring him off the bench sparingly. When does spring football start?
problem is we sucked playing the zone too
so many times players (drago) left his side empty, didn’t box out, didn’t trap the players when they are in the corner which defeat the purpose of the zone… plus with lewis hot shooting tonight, the zone did little……
even though i must say our defense sucked a little less when we played zone than when we play man
Sad, but I'm at the point
where I don’t care. I watched the game on DVR. I almost always watch every play. I “watched” the entire second half on triple-fast-forward, just watching $C’s score pile up. I have lived and breathed blue and gold since getting my acceptance letter almost 20 years ago. To not give a sh*t about watching a game – to not give a sh*t about watching an $C game – is sad. I turn on the TV to watch any UCLA/$C matchup, even if it’s a sport I don’t understand or don’t even like. To have a situation where I don’t care about watching a UCLA/$C basketball game is pitiful.
by KSBruin on Jan 16, 2010 8:02 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Very Depressing
We played like we didn’t care whether we won or not – no hustle, no excitement, no defense, no offense. O’Neill was chewing out his players as if they were the ones losing. Our players were spoken to with not much fire and that’s the way they play – no fire.
by Forever a Bruin on Jan 16, 2010 8:06 PM PST reply actions
I’m speechless, I thought cbh would be able to dictate when he was done but this reminds me of a lavin team. They just don’t care, they have no pride I’m disgusted. How did they let this happen at home. If we lose by 20 to $c fine but at least pretend you care half as much as I do. Maybe crn needs to tell them about the passion bucket
What happened to JA?
I don’t recall seeing him in the game at all in the second half. Not that I was missing him (I’d rather see MAH on the court), but I thought that was curious.
I was at the game so maybe they explained it in the TV broadcast. If not, perhaps it had something to do with all the turnovers he had in the 1st half from leaving his feet before passing (something the coaching staff was specifically working with him to stop)?
by gradstudentbruin on Jan 16, 2010 8:10 PM PST reply actions
Hate to say it but SC is a much easier team to root for
Despite being our rivals, I have to give credit where credit is due. SC plays ball the right way. They hustle, they play tough defense, they go after every loose ball, they don’t walk on eggshells scared to make mistakes, and most importantly have an identity. CBH’s team has none of these things. They were actually a joy to watch today as opposed to the pathetic performances that CBH’s team continues to put out there.
I find it hilarious that people are making such a big deal about SC not getting to play in the postseason this year so they are giving their all to the regular season. NEWSFLASH: UCLA isn’t going to the postseason either, not because of sanctions but because we aren’t any good. It would be nice if there was at least a little sense of urgency coming from CBH and his team instead of the going through the motions bullshit they have shown this season.
by bruinponcho on Jan 16, 2010 8:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
at this point we need a reset button
there’s just too much negativity, either we sit down the cancer of the team, or pump some new blood into the system, if not we might be seeing recruits bailing and good potential players like TH leaving
simply said bad coaching
we lost players to nba so did sc
players left our team, so did half of sc
we were left with young and fringe players so did sc
sc players played with heart and discipline, can’t say that about us……. to say that is the comparison between sc basketball and ucla basketball this time last year would be a joke, but now it’s a reality….. just to point out how far we have fallen this year
not surprised
We’re just not a good team. Period. I don’t think CBH forgot how to coach this year, but he’s not pushing the right buttons. We can never put a solid five on the floor. It’s demoralizing.
We don't *have* a solid five
at least not from the players we’ve seen more than a couple of minutes from. RN deserves starter’s minutes. Even though he’s not as polished as he will be, he reminds me of Kevin Craft: not the best, makes mistakes (sometimes a frustratingly high number of them), but it’s overwhelmingly obvious the kid gives a crap and is giving his all. ML deserves starter’s minutes, though I wish one of these weeks he’d decide to drive the lane more. TH will probably end up being the best basketball player of anyone on the roster, and we can hope he’ll continue to come into his own. Beyond that…
ML would be a pretty good off-the-bench shooter. JA may become an OK backup at the point – he has on occasion shown flashes of confidence. (Before anyone slams me, I said on occasion!)
JK- some see positives in his game. To me he’s basically a foul magnet. ND – I won’t even go there.
Beyond that…we don’t know. Bobo may eventually be OK. BL may have some game. I’m intrigued by MM – I’d be curious to see what would happen if he got more than three minutes a month.
So. You’re hoping for a solid five. ML, RN, TH. We have a problem here. (This is not intended as an attack on you, ishXdavid.) We just don’t have the players to compete on a D-3 level, much less the Pac-10 or NCAA tourneys.
I guess I’m with uclahy below. Play guys who will give the effort Coach Wooden would respect, regardless of their skills. I had more pride in Kevin Craft playing with heart and losing than I would be with the players Petey bought. If we play RN, TH, hopefully ML, Spencer Soo, Mustafa Abdul-Hamid, and Tyler Trapani, and Blake Arnet, and they play with pride in the four letters on the front of their jerseys even if that combination is not capable of winning a single game the rest of the season, I’m good with that. What we’re seeing now is not acceptable.
Past that…we don’t know.
by KSBruin on Jan 16, 2010 9:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Meant to drop the last line.
Pain in the arse typing on/posting from a mobile.
by KSBruin on Jan 16, 2010 9:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you wholeheartedly
We don’t have a solid 5 because our 2008 class was a complete MISS. JH is gone. ML has potential but isn’t be a consistent impact player yet. JA might be serviceable if he stays on for a 5th year. Bobo is an enigma… best-case scenaro: LMR, worst-case: Michael Fey. DG is self-explanatory.
Missing on an entire class can cripple a program for a few years, but what exacerbates the situation are the players that we kept in the program.
- ND just plain sucks. We signed him the year Dirk Nowitski led the Mavs to the Finals, in other words, the high point in Euro-transplant basketball. Maybe we should’ve taken it as a sign that if ND was really talented, he’d be playing professionally back at home instead of toiling away at an American college.
- MR isn’t a starter in an elite program (we’re still considered elite, right? this year nothwithstanding?) I don’t think CBH envisioned MR ever starting for his team when he recruited him at least I hope not. MR is what he is. He’s a spot-up shooter whose greatest value comes on the heels of other great players. Unfortunately, those great players have moved on to the NBA, and it’s unfair to count on MR to be a focal point of the offense. A few years ago I used to entertain delusions of MR one day growing into a JJ Redick/Jason Kapono type shooter, but he’s either lousy off-the-ball or CBH can’t devise an offensive scheme to utilize his player’s skills.
JK – Obviously overrated, but CBH wasn’t the only coach who recruited him — Coach K, Lute Olson, Mike Brey, and Mike Montgomery all wanted him too — but we were the unfortunate ones who got stuck with him.
I won’t go into this year’s freshman class because it’s too early and this season’s been such a clusterf*ck that it would be unfair to judge them. I will say that TH has shown promise.
The foundation of our recent success has been, all together now, defense and toughness. YES, but let’s not forget that we had NBA talent forming the nucleus of our teams. As much as I love the heart and contributions by our less regaled BenBall warriors like PAA and LMR, our teams have sent several players to the NBA — JF, RH, AA, RW, KL, LRMAM, DC (JH doesn’t count). Who’s going to get drafted to the NBA on our roster? Only ML and TH have NBA upside.
I’ve been lurking around BN a lot more lately because so many people have already expressed their discontent with the talent-level of our team. I can’t recall such a precipitous drop in talent at an elite program within the span of one year. This is what I find most disconcerting. A big miss like we had in 2008 makes recruits leery of our program not just because we suck now, but because of the high profile departures from the team. JH left after one year because he couldn’t fit in at the program. Much like KL was a dream recruit on paper so too was JH. His souring of CBH reverberates to other highly-touted recruits. Even though we have established great players coming through our program, kids these days don’t have that long a sense of history. The JF/AA era is ANCIENT history to kids these days. Today’s high school seniors weren’t even in high school when we went made our run to the championship game in 2006, which in kid time might as well been 10 years ago. DG’s strident transfer also casts our program in a bad light to recruits.
If we’re not going to sign NBA-type recruits, then we’re going to have to temper our expectations. We’ll never outwardly accept it, but I can’t delude myself into believing those “special four letters across your chest” mean anything more than golden helmets and Touchdown Jesus mean to Notre Dame Football.
/end rant
It would be depressing
except we all knew it was coming. Worst team I have ever seen.
We are lucky SUC can’t shoot or we would have lost by 40.
I repeat. Find seven guys with pride, if you can, and play them.
Hamid should be point.
Use a zone.
And wait til next year.
Sad game
SC played with more heart, passion, and just played solid basketball. Howland needs to dig deep and stop being so stubborn. As many of you have already said, he should do what works for the team, not what works for his “style”.
Kevin O’Niell seems like a pretty good coach.
Folks, we have reached the lowest point of UCLA basketball in the modern era
From the LA Times
The win is also USC’s biggest ever in Pauley Pavilion, which opened in 1965, not just USC’s biggest win in Pauley since 1993, as was previously stated. It was also USC’s biggest win against UCLA since winning 53-25 in 1945.
.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
F'ing disgrace of a basketball team.
no heart. No strength. Not a care in the world that they represent UCLA. Just out there wasting oxygen running up and down the court.
Thanks for looking like sh*t in front of our football recruits.
What, that Trojans try to get away with cheap shots?
A foul was rightfully called on that play shown in the picture.
That pic pretty much says it all...
Ugh.
Gonna go throw up now…
Talent
IMHO, the talent is just not there. Heart, desire and willngness to buy into CBH’s system would not save a team that nearly lost to Concordia(!) on its home court. Did anyone else notice that both Drago and Roll seemed a bit pudgy, out of shape, and consequently gassed eary on?
by TfXc79 on Jan 16, 2010 8:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Did Lavin return?
This year’s team has been a complete disaster. What’s worse is you saw the signs from last season when nobody from the freshmen group stood out in any way. No returning player has shown any improvement in their game. The freshmen have also shown that they are not yet ready for prime-time basketball. What makes this team even worse is just the lack of commitment from anyone, including the coaching staff, to turn this around. It’s like the players have already quit.
I switched to attending/watching/listening to Women's bball a while ago.
I made the mistake of going to today’s game though. I’m not going to blame the players at this point. This is a much larger issue. It all points toward the coaching staff when you lose your team. There is plenty of talent on our squad to make a run at this years PAC 10 title. We have a team of quitters who seem like they can’t wait to get this season over with. They quit on us = I quit on them. I get too mad when I watch us play and I’ve got more important things to do (like studying!). Women’s Hoops Baby!!!!! Throw up a game thread tomorrow at 2pm. Those are our true warriors now….
Sorry CBH, I’ve left Pauley with 10min to go too many times in disgust this year. CRN can’t give enough half-time pep talks to keep me around anymore. (only bright spot today)
Bruin-4-Life!!!
Is CBH the right guy?
I’ve asked this question before and he seemed to earn enough goodwill from the dramatic turnaround from the Lavin years. However, with the exception of the first final four run, the others were very easy for us. I give him kudos for great coaching during the first final four, but the way we were outplayed in the last two just made me hesitate to get 100% on board with CBH.
This year, he’s been thoroughly exposed as a terrible offensive coach and just either too stubborn or blind to come up with an alternative scheme that suits our players. Granted we are limited in talent, but man, lose by 20 to a USC team at home and the biggest margin of victory in over 50 years?!!! And there’s plenty of basketball left to set more lowpoints.
Again, I ask the BN, is he the right guy?
Respectrully Disagree With You, My Friend Nestor
We are playing up to our potential. We don’t have any. The kings have no clothes.
We are just plain bad. Game after game, we are getting beat at every position and in every facet of the game.
With the exception of Nelson, who plays hard and sometimes well, we just are not very good in any aspect of the game — be it physical or emotional. Shooting, ball handling, rebounding, defense, free throws, intensity, focus passion, desire — we have been beaten in all of these facets in most games.
It is all the more painful because our once vaunted D has completely disappeared.
And, all of this with heralded players — the number one recruiting class two years ago.
I think the theme of this year is that we have to evaluate talent better. We need warriors. Give me a bunch of RN’s, 3’s and 4’s who will buy in and play like Bruins.
Watching this is like watching the lizard’s teams. Just plain out painful. And, in some ways it’s worse. The lizard had a few great players who, with no coaching, played with skill and passion. With the exception of possibly RN, who on this team is playing with passion?
How bad are we? I don’t even want to watch other college basketball games (when we are good, I love to watch college ball — it’s just hard to enjoy the sport when we are so bad.)
And, though I may have been very late to the party, some of this falls on CBH. Not just the recruiting decisions; we’ve discussed all that and we just wooed the wrong girls. But, the lazy, sloppy, inconsistent play is so far from his standard that I wonder what he has been doing with these kids.
I’m at a point where I would simply play young the rest of the season. How much worse can Moser and Lane be? Let’s give them some time on the floor.
I am probably one of the more optimistic, even keeled people in this Nation. Sorry, I have nothing positive to say. I am plain disgusted.
A game against sc and we play like this? Disgusting.
sjh
Second That
Play young — play for next year. This year’s frosh are good. Get them ready for next year. Bench what’s left of last year’s recruiting class if necessary, although Lee might still be salvageable. And I’m done with Roll and the Serbian. They should be bumped down to playing the minutes usually afforded three-point specialists. If the team was competing and making a run at anything (a YMCA youth league title, even), I say give them the minutes because they’re the best we have. But we’re not, so go young. Treat the games as practice for next year.
The coach obviously bears responsibility for what we’re seeing on the court. But in terms of talent, we are playing exactly to our potential — exactly. This team isn’t talented, except the freshman class — and the young kids aren’t up to speed yet, not to mention the fact that possibly our most talented frosh (Honeycutt) was hampered by injuries.
I expect Howland to have us back where we belong next year. But he needs to figure out how this happened and make sure it doesn’t happen again to such an extreme.
I’m extremely disappointed with what I’m seeing. Never expected to see it under CBH. But I keep reminding myself that he is the first coach since Wooden to embrace Wooden’s legacy and UCLA’s expectations. No good coach wanted this job for nearly 30 years because they didn’t want to deal with our (the fans’) supposedly unreal expectations and nor did they want to be compared to Wooden. This guy welcome’s it. He had six very, very successful seasons, winning and making most of those wins enjoyable to watch. We will be back.
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 16, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
Oh really? Who?
We’ve had some OK coaches, and none of them — none of them wanted to deal with the Wooden legacy and our expectations.
Bartow, Cunningham and Larry Brown were pretty good, but they fall into that category.
Larry Farmer and Walt Hazzard were not very good coaches. Jim Harrick was our fourth choice hire after no one wanted the job (read: Lame Kitten at SC). Lavin was an imposter of a coach, which is worse than being a bad coach.
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 17, 2010 4:27 AM PST up reply actions
Not Bartow!
Bartow was a fine coach—for UAB. At UCLA he took a national championship team that lost only David Meyers and Pete Trgovich but added David Greenwood and Roy Hamilton among an excellent freshman class, added to returners Marques Johnson, Ralph Drollinger, and Richard Washington. I was at the Spectrum in 1976, and the loss to Indiana was as badly coached a game as I’ve ever seen. Just as Gavin Smith started to fuel a comeback with his energy, Bartow pulled him and sealed the 20-point loss to Bob Knight.
Bartow was JD Morgan’s choice to replace Coach because of his folksy, pious background. He picked him over the logical successor, Denny Crum, whom JD didn’t care for. Crum had a pretty good career at Louisville and might well have spent the next twenty years in Westwood.
Richard Washington left after one year of Bartow, and Marques capped an all-world season with a loss to some second-rate team in the first round of the NCAAs. Bartow had one recruit for the next year. He quit.
I respectively disagree
“This year’s frosh are good”
If this quartet were playing the Big West, it might flourish in two years. In the Pac-10, it is a Joke.
Jim Harrick was a very underrated coach
forgetting his ethical lapses, he could coach, recruit, and develop players.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Jan 18, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
We have no talent. It’s amazing bad luck that we got the #1 recruiting class in the nation in 2008 and every one of them is a bust.
Today was god awful but I still think Howland is a good coach and we’ll get back to where we should be…it’s just going to take a year or two to regroup.
by RealisticBruinFan on Jan 16, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
"it’s just going to take a year or two to regroup."
My chips are on TWO. There is NOTHING to regroup with at this point other than two recruits and a Juco. This is a 2012 story.
Sure we've had success in the past
with the 3 and 4 star “diamond in the roughs” who have bought into Howland, yet in the end, our seasons have always been ended by more talented teams, haven’t they?
Here’s a novel idea. How about finding 5 star talents that will play to their potential AND buy into Howland’s system?
Impossible? Why?
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Howland may be playing favorites
but I think it’s clear, he has absolutely no options. What was the difference between playing Abdul-Hamid or JA? A few less stupid turnovers but absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the game. Bench Dragovic? We would all agree that is long overdue. But, who replaces him? BLane? MMoser? Again, we won’t have to watch Drago throw up spitballs and play matador defense. But, what will Lane or Moser add? Will extra minutes of experience really benefit them when their team mates are turning the ball over one out of every three possessions and playing the worst defense I have even seen at UCLA. IMO, next year is going to be just as brutal. ML, TH, and RN should improve. But I don’t see any of our other players improving enough to make a difference. Hopefully Josh Smith, TLamb, and the JC point guard can get valuable experience next year so we have a chance to improve in 2012.
I agree.
If all these guys were gone next year I could understand people looking forward to getting this season over with, but nobody can count on these guys playing good ball next year. I’m really starting to wonder what’s gonna happen next year. As much ad Drago hurts us, I don’t think we’d start winning if he was benched. You’re right, ML, TH and RN will improve, but this team is a long way from being good enough to win a lot of games. Having seen how much CBH likes to play promising underclassmen over seniors this year (not at all), I don’t know what kind of difference freshmen are gonna make. JA and Bobo are going to get more minutes, and there’s even the possibility of ML leaving. We’re looking at a similar team minus Roll and Drago. How much do RN and TH have to improve to make this team competitive in the Pac 10?
I have a client who has been a season ticket holder for over 40 years, and he told me after two games “They’re just not any good. They’re a bad basketball team.” I was kind of shocked that such a loyal fan was able to write them off so early in the season. He was offering me my choice of his tickets, which he donated a bunch of money to get, and he’d only seen one game in person. I guess he was a good judge of talent after watching almost a half century of Bruin basketball. The funny thing about that conversation was the last thing he mentioned was that an improving DG would be important to us this season. I wonder what he thinks about next season.
Last year I posted that I had heard that there was a clash
between the upper classmen and the freshmen. Many on this board lambasted me for implying there was a problem. I believe this year’s performance elucidates the problem. The freshmen must have expressed their belief in entitlement, much to the chagrin of the Collisons, Ships, Aboyas who played with heart and passion. This year without the upperclassmen, we are left with the “entitled ones”. People, such as ML, who by all accounts is already cashing his NBDL check…Hopefully these sophomores will not have infected the freshmen. I also fear that Howland’s love affair with Anderson and Drago will only exacerbate the problem. As many have posted, it’s one thing to not have talent, but it is entirely another to not have passion. For this, Coach H. bears responsibility. For the long term health or survival of the program, it would be beneficial to reward players for playing with heart and passion, rather than reinforcing their sense of entitlement and letting them play 17 minutes per half…
Ok. This thread is too negative. Time to point out some positives from the game
Ummm….
Well…..
Let me think….
oh..the dance team looked great.
Coach Neuheisel set a national championship as a goal. (oh, and even more shocking was an older ’SC fan sitting next to me listening to Coach Neuheisel and genuinely saying, “He seems like a really nice guy.”)
Also, it’s much easier to get out of the parking lot when everyone else has already left w/ 4 mins to go.
As for the basketball team itself, well….we’re a gymnastics school anyway.
by insomniacslounge on Jan 16, 2010 10:02 PM PST reply actions
UCLA coach next year...
at this point next year… Who do you guys think will be UCLA coach? i think howland will still be here..
The worst part of all.
when I finally tuned in late in the second half, and saw we were down by 20. I wasn’t surprised. Or shocked. Or depressed. We all saw it coming.
Our undefeated record at the Costco Center is in serious jeopardy.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
This Is Tough To Take
Somehow I just expected so much more effort from our guys, especially when you take in consideration we’re on our home court with our cross-town rival. How do you not get jacked up for this game?
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Jan 16, 2010 10:52 PM PST reply actions
Worst beat down
I have ever witnessed live in Pauley (admit I didn’t attend during Lavin years). And against ‘SC makes it even worse. Our guys had no energy from the tip. It was clear when both MR and ND couldn’t make a shot in the first half that we were likely doomed. I am not ready to throw out CBH, but I do want to know how a second rate basketball school with a new coach, and scandals everywhere (and now probation though that wasn’t known last year) manages to put together a team that leads the Pac 10 (granted, a weak Pac 10) and embarrasses us.
depressing
This season is much worse than what I thought our bottom would be. The Pac 10 is worse than it has been I think ever and we are scraping the barrel of the conference. Being the one he has gotten the credit he now gets the blame. I am one of the biggest critics especially when it had come to offense the last 6 years, but 3 straight final 4s buys you one pass. Despite what is assuredly an under .500 season which I agree is unacceptable he gets to use his one get out of jail free card with me still. I can live with one crazy anomoly and hopefully that is what this season proves to be.
I am hoping he recognizes his flaws and I don’t believe it is just recruiting. I believe the expectations for our program should be to contend most years and in down season maybe just a tournament team. Anything less than that after this season to me proves unacceptable. That being said tonight was easily one of the all time lows in a single game and obviously this season is shaping up to be the most disappointing one I will have witnessed. Worse than Lavin’s final season in my opinion because at least we saw that one coming from a mile away.
I didn't see Lavin's final season coming...
If I recall, we were ranked 14th in the preseason, and the media pundits (and I) assumed our highly ranked freshman class (Thompson, Patterson, Bozeman, Fey**) would pick up the slack of the vacated senior laden 2002 class.
Sounds familiar…
I have to respectfully disagree with Nestor and the rest of the Fire-Howland-Now crew
While I agree with the weakness regarding CBH’s coaching style and decisions that BN has pointed out this year (I thought his stubbornness to make the necessary changes was well-exposed during those Florida F4 losses but most of us was too happy about our appearance to criticize CBH for it), I think it’s completely unwarranted to say Howland is on the hot seat now or even the next year.
Even Wooden needed years to “prove” his coaching ability. Of course, we can all agree in retrospect that Wooden had it right all along.
In the vein, I think Howland has what it takes to be our Caretaker. First, his integrity is unparalleled in the world of coaching carousel. CBH is NOT going anywhere no m
Where in this thread
We advocated for Howland’s firing? Can you point out where in this thread a BN moderator asked for Howland’s firing? If you can’t point that out, I’d expect an apology from you. Thank you.
+1
I have been late to the party to criticize CBH and have disagreed with many here as to their criticisms of him.
But, I’ve not seen one moderator or regular contributor call for the replacement of CBH.
There is no “fire Howland crew” here.
I think the discussions, for the most part have been substantive.
However, when we lose a game to and sc team that plays more like our legacy teams than we do, you can expect an eruption of passion tempered by reason.
Criticism is not the same as calling for a new coach.
sjh
My apology
This is the quote I remembered reading last night
I’d say he is on hot seat starting today.
But I do acknowledge that I skipped your writing afterward that you are not mentioning the “F” word. But “hot seat” usually means he is on notice to get fired.
I really do appreciate the healthy discussion generated here in BN. I, too, am frustrated with CBH’s weaknesses. But I just want to defend CBH and say that even with the disastrous season, CBH should not be on any hotseat.
That's fair enough HK
We have been as big Howland fans as anyone else out there. However, at the same time we just can’t keep quiet about issues that we think are problems. We have some glaring problems right now now and we want Howland to address them and fix it. Voicing such perhaps leads to musings who absolutely love Howland. That’s part of it.
Howland is still a solid coach. We hope he will work through all this. He still has to know the UCLA basketball community is concerned and wants him to his best.
Putting someone on the hot seat IMHO means that something is not right and the person who is on the spotlight will need to produce tangible results to show that he is making progress in solving the problems.
We will expect certain results from the team next year. What are those expectations? We will spell them out in off season. For now we will not be ok with a losing season and yes, that will increase pressure on Howland heading into next year.
sorry hit enter by accident
… no matter how successful he gets. I believe he meant it when he said UCLA is dream job. Unlike Hello Kitten, he ain’t going to go Duke, NC, Kentucky, or any team in the NBA. I’m sure he will be our coach until he is forced out by our AD. I think we should afford him some level of loyalty instead of abandoning him at the first season (besides his rookie season) of losing record.
Second, coaches, like players, can improve. I remember Ryan Hollins was absolutely terrible for 3 and a half years. Then a lightswitch happened somewhere and he just blossomed into a BenBall Warrior. I would like to give Howland more time to work om his coaching weakness. Perhaps our past success made him “too stubborn”. I think this season of failure will make for a good off-season of reflection for our coaches. This season may be that waking call for CBH.
Third, I am pretty sure it’s totally laughable for any sportwriters to suggest that CBH is on the hot seat. Even with this season of discontent, CBH is still one of the premier and most respected coach in the nation. I’m sure CBH would be on top of any list of “Best coach to never win the big one” If he is fired today and I’m the AD of any school with a coaching vacancy, CBH will be on top of my wishlist, given his track record. To say that CBH should be the hot seat, it confirms years of false accusation (cringe… Lavin) that our fanbase is filled with unrealistic and ungrateful fans. With 3 Final Fours, I think CBH has proven he has the best potential to get the 12th one for us. There is no “OTHER” coach I would take over him… coach K, hate him…. Roy Williams, Benedict Roy… Calipari, Kiffin’s twin separated from birth? Perhaps only Tom Izzo is the coach I can respect over CBH.
Fourth, what would Wooden think? Time and time again, his character has proven that he is the closest thing to Wooden ever since Wooden. Even our Harrick 11th is “tainted” to some degree compared to Wooden’s legacy. I can at argue that Howland is sticking too much to his gun… something I think it’s often lacking in our society. Yes, I would like CBH to be more flexible but if he has a system with a proven record of success, let him to tweak it, not scrap it. For us to say we should fire CBH now and get a new coach, we are just moving with the direction of the wind. I believe even Wooden would defend Howland today. (I understand the last statement is given without any factual support… but it’s in line with what we know of Wooden’s character)
I've written
That on the eve of our 3rd straight final 4, I said that there was no coach in the nation I’d take over CBH.
Now though? As Nestor wrote in another post earlier in the season, Bill Self and Roy Williams have never had losing seasons. Tom Izzo has bounced back quickly after down seasons.
CBH has a proven track record of building programs. The question now is… can he maintain a team?
I do not think he is on a hot seat, but most definitely a warming seat. I know we need to give him the time to fix what is wrong, but every game that passes by where Dragovic is getting significant play time, where schemes aren’t changing, etc. the less I think it’s “just a recruiting issue” and that there are significantly deeper issues at play.
Exactly...
Even Tom Izzo has to bounce back after down seasons. CBH never has a losing season since his 1st at UCLA…. (this season is not finished!!) While I would bet that our program will have a losing record by the end of the season, why can’t we channel the same relentless optimism for our season and hope that we will get back to .500.
I acknowledge there are significant deeper issues… but every coach has them if you pay close enough attention. I just think it’s ridiculous that we are putting Howland in the hot seat in the middle of an unfinished losing season. As I mentioned above, may be a losing season will do our coaching staff some good in the off-season.
While Dragovic is not our classic Benball Warrior, he along with JK are seniors nonetheless. As such, we should not give up on them given that our alternative hasn’t proven to be better… ala Ryan Hollins. To say that playing our freshmen would bring better results is simply speculation.
Tom Izzo is a good comparison to CBH because he is a defensive coach . . .
. . . . but even his worst “down” season was something like 18-12 (and I believe a tournament appearance). This was posted and thoroughly discussed a few weeks ago. It would take a miracle for UCLA to get there with our current 7-10 record. I would be shocked if UCLA finishes above .500 and get any kind of a postseason (i.e., NIT or whatever that other new post-season tourney is called) bid.
by orlandobruin on Jan 17, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
hot seat? no. warm seat? yup.
let’s see if we get a point guard….
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." --John Wooden
SC is NOT like the current Bruins
They have an EXPERIENCED veteran core. We have no core, our vets are inexperienced role players asked to step in and be leaders. The rest of the team is young and unable to compete with older, developed players. We looked like little kids playing against men. Kind of how we usually look in Football against SC.
Fortunately, these guys will get older and will improve. Get off of BH, yes it is his fault but he has proven he can get the most out of and develop players into NBA talents. They will improve, but probably not this year. The one thing I don’t get is ND, why is he still getting big minutes?
by DocBruin on Jan 17, 2010 12:34 AM PST reply actions
You lost me
exactly WHO are the experienced veteran core on SC? They lost 3 of their top 4 scorers from last year’s team. They are being led by a UNC transfer (who spurned Howland’s overtures twice) who sat out last year, and a journeyman point guard who looks like he belongs on a freecreditreport.com commercial. Each of our 3 seniors (Roll, Dragovic, and Keefe) have played in more NCAA tournament games than their entire program has in the last 20 years.
We are the ones who supposedly have the experienced veterans. We are the program that supposedly should attract more talented, more athletic players. Yet we roll a team out there that looks like my intramural team back in my college days.
Yeah I get that we are young. I get that we have lost some talents to the NBA. An elite program, with an elite coach, should be able to weather this adversity and at the very least, keep us competitive with the likes of an SC. An elite program and an elite coach, I don’t believe we have either right now.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Team is bad
How can USC have more talent and a much better all-around team than we do? They lost just as many players to the NBA, maybe in the last two or three years. There’s just no excuse for the product Howland is putting out there. He seems to be straight up missing on players. Why is he offering scholarships to guys like Stover, Keefe, Dragovic, Anderson and Lane? Lane might have potential, but it’s hard to say. How is Hamid filling a scholarship spot and Roll got owned today. Anderson looked terrible.
It was striking how bad we are and actually impressive how good SC is. Gerrity, Lewis, Stephenson? Great players. It’s not so much that Howland is dealing with a down year and a young team, but his seniors are bad and he’s had to get everything out of underachievers in the past, such as Aboya and Mata. He didn’t miss bad on some of the current crop of NBA player that have come from UCLA, so how does he miss so badly and have such an untalented team, except for Lee? I’m perplexed.
And what was up with Dragovic's socks?
What a clown. Come on, Howland, have some uniormity like Wooden did. What was that? Are those his lucky socks? This is the same guy who hit shots last season and ran down the other side of the court with his arms up in the air. Maybe he can do that if he’s an All-American and can d it up. Get control, Ben.
I like it
gives a whole new meaning to “building for the future”
by britishbruin on Jan 17, 2010 7:42 AM PST up reply actions
Howland
Thie entire debacle is on Howland. These are his recruits, his players. None of these players have star qualities. Name one guy that can truly beat anyone off the dribble or keep anyone infront of them on defense. This team should be scrapped ( which will never happen) and start fresh. It dosen’t help that Howland continues to run the shot clock offense, even though his team is down double digits. This squad worries more about running the offense that taking shots. It’s utterly amazing.
by LouisianaBruins on Jan 17, 2010 7:33 AM PST reply actions
It was clear at the 76 Classic
Its been said above, the problem is CBH dedication to his seniors. Happened last year when ship, collison and aboya played mega minutes. I criticized CBH then he needed to play his freshmen more to get them ready for now! And its the same thing now. CBH may as well play MM and BL to get them ready for the future. MR JK and ND are all role players. They shined in the early season cause everyone was getting their game on. Now that players are in mid season shape, the “ordinary” play of our seniors is exposed. CBH needs to realize that he absolutely definitely cannot play all three seniors at the same time. It is just not possible. I would start ML, MR at guards. TH, BL at forwards and RN at center and play a 1-2-2 match up zone. That 2-3 is fine but hard to pressure the point with out exposing a wing. As part of the zone, I would install a full court, 3/4 court and 1/2 court press. What this team needs is to find its confidence in defense and easy baskets. That will come with a pressure defense and turnovers. That’s what SC did today. O’Neil told his players to get in their face and when Roll and Ragovic went 0 fer, then bought into coaches plan. I think the CBH does not have this with this team. They respect him, but they are not playing for him. Cause deep down, they see the favoritism to the seniors, the stubborn approach to the “system” and the quick hook to the young players for no apparent reason. So again: STARTERS: ML/MR/TH/RN/BL SUBS IN ORDER: (MA-H)(JA)(ND)(JM-JK)(MM). And always keep three starters on the court at all times.
Pressure for next year, but we can be good next year...
There are some big ifs, but we definitely have the potential to do better than just getting to the tourney next year.
If RN and TH continue to improve, they can be a great PF/SF combo.
If ML stays and dedicates himself to taking on AA’s role as stopper and go-to scorer, he can be all-Pac 10 at SG.
If Zeke comes in and gives us some court leadership and direction from the point guard position, that would be a massive improvement over our options this year and make the rest of the players better. Look at the effect Mike Gerrity has had on $C since becoming eligible.
If we can get production out of our scholarship centers Josh Smith / Bobo / Stover, then we might be better balanced on both ends of the court that this year.
If Tyler Lamb is as good as advertised, he can provide some instant offense off the bench and take pressure off our other scorers.
Yeah, we just got our asses handed to us by $C. $C is a better team than us. They have beaten better teams than us by equally lopsided margins already this year, and they came into Pauley like it was their biggest game of the season. It wouldn’t even shock me if they end up winning the Pac-10 this year given how bad every team seems to be: they have a composed senior point guard, a go-to scorer in their senior shooting guard, and a talented, athletic front court; and they play tough defense.
About ML...
Here are the options I see for him after this season.
1. Work his butt off over the off-season, come back next year stronger and much more able to drive the lane.
2. Be lazy this summer, come back next year with the same skills, strengths, and weaknesses.
3. Transfer out for whatever reason.
4. Declare for the draft.
IMO, #4 would be stupid. He is athletic, and has had a few flashes of RW-like play (not equal, but similar in style), but he can’t hold onto the ball consistently. This would be a problem as a PG in the league – just ask JH. He’d be in the D-League or overseas; OK if he feels like he must get a paycheck or else, but nothing like he could earn if he develops over another couple of years here.
- and #4 could work if he just wants to get the heck out/find a different coach. I don’t know if that’s the case, and I don’t have Fox 71’s three wealthy alumni to ask, so I won’t speculate.
To me #1 and #2 seem the most likely of options. If he doesn’t care and/or wants to coast along and/or doesn’t want to give any more effort for CBH, we’ll end up seeing #2. If he wants to show pride in his uni and/or help any potential future draft status, he has to choose #1.
I’m not saying this to bash you, britishbruin, I’m just surprised that the rumors “they” come up with still mention him going pro after this year. I think that’s ridiculous.
by KSBruin on Jan 17, 2010 8:46 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
The rumors come up
Because we are hearing a lot about how players are getting tired of playing for Ben Howland (and not exactly very happy about how the coach has appeared to gone out of his way to give preferential treatments to clowns like Ragovic).
Agree and understand
he may not be happy. He may indeed want to get out. However, if he thinks he’s going to get drafted I think he’s crazy.
agree with both of you
I don’t think he would get drafted well if he left, but he may be unhappy enough to leave anyway. I won’t be surprised if JA leaves as well (transfer). I am done caring whether the sophomore class is ‘happy’. We did enough of that last year when our warrior seniors had to go to CBH to ask him to change styles to placate the freshmen. Fat lot of good it did us last year or this. If I hear that TH and RN are unhappy with things, that would be a different thing. But from what they seem to say and how they seem to play, I don’t think they are.
I hope ML comes back AND works hard to maximize his potential within CBH’s team.
by britishbruin on Jan 17, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
Unacceptable
Bruin Nation will not sit still for this. Hot seat alert.
Would y'all just settle down and give Coach Howland a chance?
Well, that likely would have been the theme of my comment here this morning….
…except…
…I am thoroughly disgusted by the effort and heart we showed against USFingC…
It’s USC. How can you come onto our home floor and show absolutely no passion, no desire, no heart? Our kids look like they just don’t care.
I turned off the TV in the first half after watching the TrOJans get to the rim again and again and again. Nobody switched off to challenge these shots. The last straw was a possession where SC ran the shot clock down under 5 and threw up a desperation shot…the ball hit the floor about 15 feet from the basket amid THREE Bruins…and nobody bothered to go after the ball. From out of nowhere, one of the Trojans flew in to knock it away and gain another possession.
This is disgusting. I’ll allow for a rebuilding year. I’ll abide a losing season while we reload. But NEVER…NEVER…can you let a USC team walk into Pauley and bitchslap us like that.
A comment from the peanut gallery,
which is where I was sitting in the Shrine Auditorium when the Trojies blasted the Bruins, 53-25, in 1944, I believe it was. I got there partly by streetcar, partly on foot. I was in high school at the time, WW II was still on, and, because of wartime travel restrictions, the schools played each other four times each season. Bruins won the next game, at Westwood, I believe, though I did not attend, since Westwood was far away. In fact, I did not know exactly where it was. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then (or trickled, since we are in L.A.), and I have exulted at Bruin accomplishments in all sports, especially basketball. But there have been plenty of bitter defeats as well. There will be a lot more of each in years to come. Some of you instant-gratification guys sound, well, panicky. Take a deep breath. Support your team. Stand behind your coach. Clear-eyed analysis in the modern fashion is fine. I applaud it. But unwavering support is better.
If you are looking for "unwavering" support ...
and blind-homerific feel good stories, you are hanging out at the wrong place.
Though I think it's great you've been a Bruin
longer than I’ve been breathing, I’d point out unwavering support of basketball coaches would mean we never would have gotten rid of Lavin. Most of us on this board are not complete doom-and-gloom people, but there are a number of aspects of Coach Wooden’s Pyramid of Success that are missing from this team, and that’s very troubling. A few examples of parts we don’t see:
enthusiasm: “Your energy and enjoyment, drive and dedication will stimulate and greatly inspire others.” RN most of the time, that’s about it.
self-control: “Control of your organization begins with control of yourself. Be disciplined.” Don’t see that!
at the top, competitive greatness: “Perform at your best when your best is required. Your best is required every day.”
It’s hard impossible to have unwavering support for a team who doesn’t care 95% of the time, rarely plays together, and a team whose players and coach seem to be completely disconnected.
Nobody on here expects this team to see any postseason action other than the required Pac-10 tournament. I don’t think most on here expect a .500 season any more – I don’t. At this point I expect to see any player that looks like they have any sort of pride in the four letters on their uniform to be on the court. Once this season is (thankfully) over, Howland needs to figure out what our team is going to be about, and which players and recruits will match that vision, then sit down with them and lay it out. Those not interested may leave.
You Hot Seat Guys Are Nuts
Howland brought us back to respectability after 25 years in the desert. He recruits and coaches Ben Ball Warriors. He just messed up with these McDonald’s parfaits, and needs to pick his kinds of guys (of which RN and ML are two and TH may be a third). If you call for his head, you will just send us back into a revolving door of horrible coaches. Do you really think we’ll get Coach K instead. Wake up, and stop being such babies when we have a bad year.
25 years in the desert?!?!?
Well, by your definition, I guess Harrick found an oasis in the desert in ’95.
Even Lavin’s worst teams had more talent than this one. CBH should be criticized for the epic shortcomings this season, which includes recruiting failures that led to this lack of talent. This is not a “bad year.” A bad year by UCLA’s standards is an NIT bid, something that will not happen this season.
By no means am I advocating that he be fired, but there better be progress next year (I am not foreseeing any progress this season) and we better be competing for the Pac 10 title in 2012 or the heat will definitely be on CBH.
by orlandobruin on Jan 17, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Been a Bruin since the Walton years
I started in ‘71 and graduated in ’76. I worked on campus and had access to Pauley to watch Coach’s practices. I’ve been reading this board off and on for several years now and couldn’t figure out why CBH was so popular, even with the 3 final 4 appearances. Oh, those runs were great, but I never bought into the “defense first, grind it out” style of play. The results against FL showed what happens when you don’t have a balanced attack and aren’t able to make the OTHER team play defense too. I really thought that Love would come back for another year but I then I remembered him looking over to CBH during the Final 4 loss to Memphis and CBH saying “What do you want me to do Kevin?”. I knew right then that Love probably wouldn’t come back as there was nothing more that CBH could teach him.
I logged in a couple of weeks ago and saw the first chinks in the CBH amour when amid most msgs. still saying that he was a great coach and the best coach for us, I saw a comparison to Bob Toledo and how he improved our FB program for the first few yrs after he arrived but went downhill after the Miami loss. People were just starting to realize that maybe it wasn’t just unexpected early departures or great recruits just not panning out, but maybe CBH deserved some of the blame.
I used to love watching the Bruins run a full court or 3/4 court press. We always seemed to be pushing the ball upcourt and putting teams back on their heels. Guys like Greg Lee never played in the pros but played well in Coach’s system.
Now times have changed with “one and done” kids but I’m tired of hearing all the excuses about “we’re a young team” and if we could keep good players for 4 years things would be different. ALL of the elite BB programs are faced with the same situation. Kansas, UConn, Kentucky, UNC, Texas, Duke, all of them seem to do well year in and year out with balanced attacks and with athletic players and NONE of them play the methodical style that CBH coaches and I don’t see them falling to the level that we have fallen. They don’t walk the ball up the court and milk the play clock. Most of the elite teams have a better FT shooting percentage too. What’s up with that? Hire a FT shooting coach or consultant to get the fundamentals right. Just shooting 100 FTs in practice isn’t good enough.
I wish we had dumped Lavin and hired Pitino when we had the chance. Romar would have been a good choice too. Look at AZ and sc. They have pretty young and inexperienced teams too and are doing WAY better than us. I think the skilled and athletic HS kids just don’t want to play in CBHs system and I can’t say that I blame them. There’s obviously some truth to some of the things that Drew Gordon’s mom said although it will be interesting to see how he does at NM. It will be interesting to see how the recruiting goes this year. I think the Hotseat is NOW!
HW
LARGEST CROWD OF SEASON
I wonder howmany were $UC bandwagoners and how many were Bruin faithful? I wonder how many would return to watch such a lack of heart? Renovation of Pauley seems almost unnecessary given what we seem to draw for a “crowd”. To put butts in the seats you have to be winning, be exciting, and sell 7yourself to the students. we seem to fail on all counts. $Recruing means getting out and finding the gems not just signing whomever wants to attend. We need to beat the bushes as we will not continue to draw the ballplayer that the Bruins have attracted in the past.
Largest?
Wow. Saw a lot of empty seats behind the baskets. The fact that we can’t fill Pauley for a game against $C says a lot.
Hey Nestor,
I’m digging through my Iliad, looking for feel-good stories. Of course the Trojans did lose in the end, after which we got the Odyssey — some good stuff there, true, but also lots of trouble. Anyway, let me say that support can be unwavering without being blind. I love that BN can take on CBH and demand an accounting, and, though I do not fully approve of all the comments I read, I think they derive from unwavering support. Otherwise, why would they care? But my tendency is to look for some positives, to say a kind word, not to heap coals on the heads of this team. Anyone gets tired of relentless criticism and tunes it out; feigned indifference is a common response to that sort of thing, in my experience. But don’t misunderstand me: it is not my intention to tell anybody what to think or what to feel, or what to say. That would be absurd and presumptuous. No, long live BN, say I. If the emperor has no clothes, you will read it here first.
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