Saturday Football Open Thread: Leach Watch
by Nestor on Jan 2, 2010 6:37 PM PST
in Football
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PrintNeedless to say Mike Leach has been a especially hot topic around here on Bruins Nation. I am sure many on BN are watching the Texas Tech's bowl game against Michigan State which is on right now on ESPN.
I thought I'd put up an open thread because it would be fun to follow it all together and more importantly take our minds of UCLA hoops. We will have plenty of time to talk about Howland's basketball team before they get slaughtered up in Berkeley and stumble through rest of this lost season. There will be lot of venting, soul searching and calm reflections here in the coming weeks and months leading up to next season.
For now though let's shift our attention to the Leach story. Now talk about soap opera, next few hours could be interesting and Texas Tech is up by a score of 7-0. Fire away.
GO BRUINS.
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ESPN Singing the James Family Party Line
ESPN is a player in this drama, not a news organization covering it.
They have been disgraceful from the first moment.
If they had any sense of propriety, they would not touch this story and would focus on the game. But, they’ve been singing the admin’s song all game.
"Punished for having a concussion"? Uh, your thumb on the scale is showing. — their description of the nature of the controversy.
This is totally disgusting.
If I didn’t want to see this game so much, I’d boycott.
Shame on ESPN.
sjh
Concussion
Doesn’t a concussion make you sensitive to light, might a low lighted or dark place be good?
P.S. I’m not a MD
Geezer in training.
You're right
I just talked to a good friend that is an MD (emergency medicine for almost 40 yrs) and he concurs. You don’t want the brain stimulated and that is why a dim to dark place is best. He interned through UCLA in Santa Monica.
by Desert Brewin' Fan on Jan 2, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
TT's offense
Looks like on a roll. And the storyline is going to be how they didn’t “miss a beat” totally ignoring the fact that they are just basically running Leach’s script. They are not going to miss him until next season when the results of change in practice pattern will show.
In light of what we've learned from 34
about how teaching is the key to creating fundamentals and consistency — they want us to believe that because the students can write a good final exam the teacher who was in the classroom all year really wasn’t necessary, at all.
sjh
I had a mental asterisk
by this game, because, well, it’s Texas Tech. But, then again, it’s not. My whole excitement and anticipation was based on its being a Mike Leach team. Texas Tech the school? Ho-hum.
All of which corroborates one of the points of that article someone linked, that what the TT administration didn’t understand is that Mike Leach made Texas Tech relevant.
Now, I find myself rooting for MSU.
It's a pretty simple formula
You talk about it, you say what James’ side is, you say what Leach’s side is, you talk about the game. Apparently this has proven to be difficult.
Formerly ryebreadraz
I think a Tech loss will give them the argument that Leach was not all that good
Leach can’t win here.
A win will be Ruffin’s a loss Leach’s
sjh
They've not mentioned MSU's players who got in trouble
if you’re into yellow journalism, that’s a big part of the story and they are not telling it.
sjh
Not that he needs my help,
but now is a dandy time to heed Fox’s no-sound counsel. As they interview principles and show sideline shots of James, I make up my own captions and commentary.
I feel sorry for the TT fans
they are going through what we went through with Dalis, the lizard and CTS.
A total lack of confidence that your school with do the right thing.
Hey, wonder if KD is interested in ML’s job. Time to dust off the suit and talk about a passing attack.
sjh
I'm not too hung up on it
the sand-aggies are some of the scummiest fans in the Big XII in my opinion, as I met many of their fans when they came to SMU my freshman year. And just because people actually seem to feel sorry for Leach, I’ll present a little more from the other side. And again as a disclaimer, I don’t feel any sympathy for Adam James, I hope to God he stays away from SMU, but I think people are over looking how stubborn and and scummy Leach is. Regardless of how much of a pain a player is, don’t stoop to this level when your a 7 figure leader of a football program, just cut him. Leach did nothing to help himself, hes greedy and he thought he was above the administration.
Leach reportedly to his to trainer Pincock
“Lock his f-cking p-ssy ass in a place so dark that the only way he knows he has a d-ck is to reach down and touch it,” Leach reportedly told Pincock.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/02/the-war-between-texas-tech/
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
BTW Ollie
Thanks for sharing that. Good to hear both perspective. My heart is with Leach but at the same time I am not feeling the underlying allegation that a kid was being locked up in a shed. Guess we will have to see what the facts were. This is an insane story.
no problem
The SMU and Tech boards have been in a lot of discussion over this, and many SMU fans have tech family as well, so its pretty much all they’ve been talking about lately.
My opinion is that Leach was at fault, James was at fault, even the administration is screwed up and split over this. For the decent TTech fans out there, my heart goes to them, because I think this is a result of a larder problem in the athletic department. I dont think the firing was appropriate and I dont think the way Leach handled it all was appropriate, so its all just a mess really.
BTW, you mentioned the room, did you catch that video I posted that Adam took with his phone? He took a quick vid. with his phone, but he is clearly in some sort of heating or electrical room.
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
lol on most other message boards his name is being censored, making it all the more confusing
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
if some punk kid had his ESPN dad lobbying jfor more playing time
and then showed up to practice not wearing kit, lollygagging around wearing sun glasses (for his concussion(!)) a couple of days after being called out for lack of effort in practice, thinking that his mild concussion made him immune to discipline, I hope I would have the quickness of mind to lock him in a dark shed and use his own bullshit against him.
At least in my head, I see this kid playing the fool and thinking that this concussion actually gave him something he could use to be insubordinate, and I am totally on Leach’s side on the action he took. Unlucky for Leach that he had the perfect storm of the Craig James media connection, the Mangino discipline issue at Kansas, an administration who were already antsy about how much they were paying him, and “concussion” being the latest hot craze sweeping America.
Interesting perspective
From a columnist in Florida:
James is all but done as a college football broadcaster at ESPN. No coach will trust him, respect him, nor the network, if he is assigned to do their games. By the time Leach shares whatever he might have on James berating him for not playing his kid more, James will be looked at by college football fans the way Tiger Woods is by his former sponsors.
More than that, ESPN’s decision to pick a side in this dispute, which I think led to Leach getting fired, shows that the sports world needs another media superpower.
Where once ESPN was enough, now it is obvious they have agendas and they can not be trusted. Until recently the thought of competition for ESPN would have brought merely laughter (or drug testing).
I mean, who could possibly challenge ESPN?
Comcast.
Comcast has just as much money, controls a few hundred million dollars in yearly revenue for ESPN and just happens to be buying NBC. Comcast also operates Versus and several regional sports channels. That’s a player!
Comcast can compete dollar-wise for broadcast rights for any sports programming and can buy into channels that ESPN cannot, like NFL Network and Big Ten Network.
But far more importantly, as with Fox News in the mid ’90s, the sports fan and the sports world are hungry for another voice. Another side of the story to be portrayed.
Also from the Post (just reading up right now)
Leach’s direct shot at Craig James/ESPN:
In interviews with the Times and ESPN, Leach described a divisive and tense relationship with Craig James, whom he said he had to deal with more than every other parent on the team combined. He said James frequently attended practices and called assistant coaches.
“I think he used his position at ESPN to try to coerce me into allowing Adam to play more,” Leach told the Times. “I don’t feel like it’s fair to the other players and I don’t think it’s the right way to do business to allow influence and position to dictate when you play a young man.”
When Craig James was asked about those claims, he called them “absurd,” ESPN spokesman Josh Krulewitz said.
Leach has the phone messages from Craig James
story is that he called Adam in and asked him to ask his dad to stop calling so much — or he’d play some of the messages for the team.
This is going to be an ugly legal case
sjh
I'm not a lawyer
But I’ve worked in corporate legal; this is going to be extra ugly.
Geezer in training.
Just reading through this now
From a blogger on Huffington Post sports section:
If allegations Leach made yesterday to The New York Times prove true, Craig James should face disciplinary action and possibly lose his job. If they don’t, Leach needs to apologize publicly to the James family, drop his attempts to be reinstated and reconsider his future in college football.
In his first major interview since the incident, Leach told the Times:
Craig James called assistant coach Lincoln Riley so often to lobby for playing time, that they had a meeting with Adam James. They played him two of the messages and asked, “How would you feel if we went in there to the meeting room and we stuck speakers up and we played these two messages for the team?” … After that, we didn’t get any more phone calls from Craig, but he did proceed to call administrators.That is a serious charge to anyone who has worked in journalism. This story isn’t about Craig James, yet. But it could be real fast if Leach is telling the truth. No coach or university should have to live with a network media analyst who covers their school behaving like that. It would be a gross violation of journalistic ethics for any sports journalist to try and directly influence how any college football program is run. For it to happen where the journalist’s son is on scholarship would be beyond the pale.
These allegations are easy to verify. ESPN and sports reporters should ask Riley directly if he ever recorded messages from Craig James, brought them to the school, and played them for Adam James in a meeting with other coaches. ESPN and sports reporters should ask Adam James directly if he ever attended a meeting where phone messages from his father were played. (If he says no, they should ask where he was at the time Leach says the meeting occurred.) One word answers will do.
Riley has a game to coach on Saturday. But he should come out publicly by Monday and verify in detail the content of the alleged calls. Leach should produce a signed letter by Riley and any other coach who attended the meeting that supports the story Leach told the Times. If the tapes still exist, Riley should play them for ESPN, the Times and other independent sports media.
That’s how you verify a simple yet critical set of facts. If Leach’s assistant coaches can’t or won’t verify the story he told the Times, something is very wrong with Leach and he doesn’t deserve to work in major college sports. If they can and do, and if the tapes exist and support Leach’s claims, then something is very wrong with Craig James, and he doesn’t deserve to work in major sports broadcasting.
Everyone in journalism knows that credibility is a perception. That is why political reporters don’t report on races involving their family members and why business reporters don’t report on companies in which they own stock. ESPN could have avoided this whole situation by reassigning Craig James the minute his son signed with Texas Tech. The announcement that James would not be covering the Alamo Bowl – like that is some big step by ESPN – is so ridiculous it’s offensive. It was absurd for him to ever have been anywhere near that game in the first place.
Craig James has every right to be a pestering football dad, as obnoxious as that may be. However, if he wants to exercise that right, he owes it to his network and the reputations of other reporters who work there to move into a job that doesn’t have these ethical temptations or create the appearance of impropriety. News organizations routinely reassign reporters to avoid even slight impressions of conflict over work their family members do in government, business – even sports. Why was Craig James any different?
Comcast
couldn’t locate the hot (incoming signal) cable in our place on Thursday and could not hook up our service, so I had no TV for New Year’s Day football and outdoor hockey on Sunday.
This is their chance to make it up to me.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
i love how the comments suddenly change
from lighthearted jokes about James to just ripping him apart
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
by bucknellbruin on Jan 2, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
It's crazy
Honestly, haven’t been following it as closely as others. Basically using this thread and game to get all caught up. The only thing I know for sure, ESPN has been sickening through all this.
they really have
I was following it closely for a while, but I got sick of the whole situation really fast. Once Leach was fired I knew it was getting ugly and just tried to stay away from it…ESPN makes it kind of hard though
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
by bucknellbruin on Jan 2, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
First time I've heard about it
Perry is such a light weight — and surrounds himself with light weights.
If he stays in power, I can see it. But, I don’t think he will.
sjh
I read that a few weeks back on an SMU board
and many are under the impression that it may not happen any more lol..
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Bad day for special teams
ECU loses on two missed field goals, and TT and MSU both miss theirs.
My two favorite teams are UCLA and whoever is playing $C.
I will say it over and over
the bowl games make clear what an incredible asset it is to have Kai.
sjh
Ollie I would think that
the people at SMU would hate James. He’s one of the leading reasons they got the death penalty.
sjh
Its actually a myth that Craig James was involved with any payments that led to the death penalty
I brought this up in a fairly long winded post responding to ‘71. But if theres one reason some people are cross with CJ, its because he hasnt been a more positive promoter for our school and more involved. He’s been here and there and around a bit, but people have been disappointed with the way hes scoffed at the program in the national media, and the last thing the a rebuilding program needs. Of course now hes back on board that we’re starting to turn it around, and for the most part, people are happy to have one of our school’s legends back.
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
I don't think I got everyone's thoughts on this question
What would have Leach done if his players went “over the wall”? Give me your best shot.
called off a practice and had them build a real wall?
My two favorite teams are UCLA and whoever is playing $C.
They are not mentioning that the
second affidavit from the trainer is directly inconsistent with his first.
His credibility is toast in a courtroom.
Both the trainer and doctor have to start back tracking because they have licenses on the line. If the trainer actually decided on the shed, if it was his decision, and if it was a bad decision, he’s in trouble.
And, btw, no one is mentioning that the “james video” of the electrical closet did not represent the actual room he was in.
sjh
Bottom line: the trainer took him to the shed.
if it was clearly wrong, he would not have done it.
sjh
right
wasn’t aware the 1st was an affidavit, just a statement given to Leach’s representatives (and then put out by Leach)
Yeah, I had read about that first affidavit
via Leach and the second one is being pushed by TT. However, if the first affidavit does exist and Leach’s lawyers can produce it, that would be interesting. Haven’t seen it yet.
Somewhere on Double T -- I've been reading so much stuff.
Double T was my source for the fact that the affidavit ESPN just mentioned was a “second affidavit”.
sjh
Again. Bottom line: Trainer put him there
if it is wrong, today, it was wrong then.
He could have taken him somewhere else.
The shed was a place used by players to cool off and rest.
Bigger problem for Leach is that it was somewhat punitive as opposed to totally rehabilitative. But, he also disciplined people with exercise — or making a guy study on a desk, on the practice field, during cold weather.
But their parents were not boradcasters.
sjh
kid was being a smart ass
and so Leach showed him he was a bigger smart ass.
When the kid wasn’t running sufficiently hard in practice, he made him run steps.
When the kid shows up saying he can’t practice and has to wear sunglasses, he sends him to isolation somewhere dark.
Leach WAS being punitive. He wasn’t punishing him for being concussed, he was punishing him for being a jackass. He couldn’t exactly punish him by making him run laps in his condition, so finding a completely non-health-impacting way of punishing him seems entirely appropriate.
Now this is a shed
I’ve heard this story about two paralegals doing discover in new mexico. Under one set of docs, scorpions, the second set rattlesnakes.
Geezer in training.
Those weren't their bosses under the docs?
Hey, we all love a good lawyer joke, right?
Oh…yeah…wrong crowd.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
Tried to go to link on Double T for the affidavits
and it hung my browser. Had to force quit.
Posters on Double T also claim trainer made inconsistent statements in initial interview with ESPN.
However, as lawyers we know that what lay people think are inconsistent can often be explained away by a silver tongue.
This is going to be very ugly.
Interesting that the James family has not said one bad word about the trainer who actually put the kid in the shed. He is culpable if you believe their story.
BTW — he kept his job. And, now he’s starting to sing the Admin’s song.
Oh, how all of us would love to cross examine him.
sjh
SA my favorite city in TX
Sorry 66, hated houston, hated dallas, sa wierd but kinda nice.
Geezer in training.
SA my favorite, too.
Houston is a great place to raise a kid, but SA has a lot going for it.
However, it is growing too quickly and losing some charm.
sjh
The kid was happy to leave for a bit
She’s off in N’s area now; Andrews. She’s not a fan of TX; then again she’s spent most of her time in the Air Force at Lackland.
Geezer in training.
Jen is ready to leave TX
she’s still a CA kid. With Internet, texting and all of the electronic world, she’s stayed close to her friends there.
She won’t even consider a TX school.
Hoping for a UC school. Already accepted to 2 Big 10 schools and 1 in Pac 10. Not sure how I feel about her going to a competitor.
sjh
66
I’ve been meaning to congrates jen on the schools she’s been accepted too. I know the UC’s are late, and then there are wait lists. Best of luck to her.
Geezer in training.
Yep
Sounds like she has great options already! My UCLA letter didn’t come in till April but that was back in the day.
I was in April, too.
But it was a chiseled stone tablet back in my day.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
Thanks to all
we are much more relaxed now that she has some choices.
Still, really hoping for a UC school
sjh
Their attitude that
Leach is not important to the game, the QB is
and “see, no one misses him”
and, “change is good”
If MSU wipes them out, does that prove them wrong.
sjh
LOL gotta love ESPN's sideline reporter
Adam James is facing threats!!! Meanies!!!! Craig James has so much courage!!!!!
Hey! A Craig James reference!
Tuning into the game for the first time, and what am I immediately met with?
Maybe I should tune back into XXX?
formerly bruinhoo
Sounds like it
I decided to go with the more nuanced television program for the moment.
Yup, Vin Diesel is the voice of logic and reason in this time slot.
formerly bruinhoo
UT and Houston are both still there
The only issue seems to be maybe moving around the date for the UT game.
formerly bruinhoo
Y'all come. Houston is a great place for a short visit.
Really!
If things line up right, I’ll host something.
sjh
Next year is @ the Rose Bowl
I believe the return to Houston is in 2011 (maybe 2012?)
Hopefully Jen gets into UCLA and you will have an excuse to come to LA for that game.
formerly bruinhoo
It IS a great visit.
Awesome food there. Nice parks. Fun nightlife – I met my wife in a bar on Richmond (ok, she was visiting friends in town). Johnson Space Ctr is cool. Galveston is a nice visit, too.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
You are a hero here
come on back and let us take you out!
Galveston is rebuilding.
It’s really a great place.
Not a CA beach town, but for Tx it’s great.
sjh
I did hear some interesting trivia about Houston
A guy I used to work with had a b-i-l who was an ada in NO, Houston per/capita has the most eh gentleman clubs.
Geezer in training.
FWIW
having attended a few bachelor parties when I was in Houston, the Gentlemen’s Clubs were really pretty classy, given the industry. Very un-stripper-bar-like, if that makes sense. More like fancy restaurants with really attractive naked dancing waitresses.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
There is a symbiotic relationship between the clubs and the energy industry
Lots of big deals go down in them.
In fact, it has been an issue with women who feel they cannot compete on even terms with their male counterparts because they can not function in the clubs in the same way the men can.
sjh
See the point
Wasn’t in the place to make any deals, I was just a poor paralegal/tech.
Geezer in training.
we're going to be doing an away weekend in Galveston sometime next semester i believe : )
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
what year did Cade beat A and M in the bowl game? Was it 98 or 99?
if so, I think Davies was the A and M DC
sjh
They are hanging in even without their suspended players
I’m still ambivalent about who I want to win.
Great fake punt call
sjh
Slightly OT
on the scroll, RW missed a triple double by one board (in a loss to the Bucks). No report on JH’s night.
Amazing what happens when you invest in CBH’s system.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
Double T fans saying
there are fans in the stands with cardboard and markers making pro Leach signs.
sjh
TT fans complaining about Potts
Fox just offered to bring him to Westwood.
They said OK if we’d take James, too.
sjh
What a run on 3rd and 2
Such a great game that it’s forcing to keep this blowhards from yappin about Leach.
There have been some great games this year
and this is one of them.
Announcers were ruining it — but you’re right, they’ve been forced to call the game.
sjh
go to microvision's web site
they licensed the technology to some phone makers. Also will have a stand alone.
It is laser and will compete with the expensive projectors. Will cost around $500, the cost of a bulb for a projector.
Will project large size, sharply.
I’ve been on the list to get one as soon as it is released as a projector.
Can hook my iPhone or Mac to it.
Very cool technology.
sjh
Love the koreans and their tech goodies
Used to be the Japanese, even 15 years ago.
Geezer in training.
Michigan State
is showing a lot of heart.
UCLA '08
Double T has been calling for this guy all game
that’s why Fox asked if we could have Potts.
Truth be told, Prince would be great in their system. No sacks. Simple routes. Receivers who run their patterns correctly and completely AND catch the ball.
sjh
Darnit, N!!
Gonna have to go play iPod and find some temporary peace again.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
For Some Reason
If i’m not watching UCLA i still enjoy football, whereas basketball not as much. Which is weird because basketball is my favorite sport to watch in general (I like the NBA hate the NFL).
UCLA '08
I was just thinking that because we won our game
I am enjoying all of these other ball games.
If we had lost, it would not be the same.
sjh
Some at DT said he was a walk on.
Good example of how Leach could do so much with little talent.
I mean, none of their qb’s have been harassed by the D.
Plenty of time to throw to wide open receivers
sjh
Big pick
Now, can TT run the ball well enough to run out some clock?
Or should they just wing it down the field for another 6?
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
they are HUGE
seeing them in person a few seasons back was mind blowing, it was the first thing I noticed when the team came out. They have some oxes on that line.
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
also the face paint is a bit creepy...
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
by bucknellbruin on Jan 2, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions
ah yes that too
they are seriously monsters, very impressive
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
somehow i doubt they would be forced to stand in a dark closet... :)
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
by bucknellbruin on Jan 2, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
haha no way
but I’d bet my bottom dollar those guys would play through any number of concussions
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Pure Leach
He disdained anything short of first downs and touch downs.
Going for it was pure Leach.
sjh
You can get away with being comfortable
Nestor is going to bed and this is not one of our games.
sjh
OT recruiting news
DT Brandon Willis decommited from Tennessee today, and will announce between UCLA and UNC at the Army AA game next saturday. Would be a huge pickup
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
well so much for that then
that’s a pretty lame silent commit haha
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
by bucknellbruin on Jan 2, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Who knows ... that's what I read today
I think it’s a done deal for UNC. Oh well. Now I am really out! Good night guys.
Did you see one guy with the serious ink
I mean on the face, who will ever hire him?
Geezer in training.
hopefully he grows a full head of hair before he enters the proffesional world : /
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Great night here, BN
Besides the game and the company, the Wife and daughter (and dog) just got home after spending 3 hours stopped on I-70 in a snowstorm. Whew. Thanks for another great night, and Happy New Year!
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
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