Is Hello Kiffin Telling Trojan Recruits There Will Be No Serious Sanctions On U$C* From The NCAA?
There has been lot of chatter recently about what exactly Lane Kiffin and his staff have been telling their recruits about the dark NCAA cloud hanging over the Southern Cal program. People have been wondering whether Kiffin and his staff are being honest with the kids who are considering the Trojans about the serious nature of the allegations concerning Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo against Southern Cal (not even including the latest allegations that popped against Joe McKnight).
Well thanks to Trojan's latest re-commit Dillon Baxter we now have an idea of what exactly Kiffin and his staff has been telling the recruits. Here is Baxter's announcement to KUSI in San Diego:
Here were his comments when asked about his take on what might take place at Southern Cal in relations to the NCAA cloud hanging over their program:
I talked to him (Lane Kiffin) yesterday. He said all the right things. I mean, all about the Reggie Bush thing and what not I am not sure what is going to go on ...
All I was told that worst that could have happen is stuff that I mean ... what happened with Reggie Bush is ... take some losses away ...but other than nothing could affect me or any of my team-mates in future.
This quote also shows up behind the subscription firewall of Biggin's report on ESPN.
I wonder if someone from the NCAA are paying attention to this. Are Trojan coaches making the same representations to other recruits? If so are they telling their recruits with a straight face that they feel confident enough that NCAA is not going to come down hard on them except to take away some losses? Are they disclosing the possibility that the NCAA might install bowl and TV ban on Southern Cal?
Then to take it one step forward are these athletes going to ask Southern Cal whether they could sign just a scholarship agreement instead of a LOI, which would give them the option to commit themselves to going to SC, if Kiffin and his staff turn out to be bold faced liars (at least in the case of Baxter) about NCAA not coming down too hard on their program so that his "future" would not be effected at Southern Cal?
Something seems really off in Baxter's comment. It's an angle both the NCAA and the traditional media should be looking into closely considering the sleazy track record of Kiffin and his coaching staff.
GO BRUINS.
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my agonizing fear
is that the NCAA is so incredibly gutless, such a sellout and joke of an organization, that Hello Kiffin will end up being right. It absolutely disgusts me and I hope I eat crow, but I’m not counting on the NCAA punishing $UC nearly to any extent they deserve. The entire country knows they deserve the death penalty, at least as bad as SMU, but I just won’t count on the NCAA retaining any sense of dignity until they reveal their ruling in a couple months.
How could Lame Know?
It concerns me that they could be paying someone at the NCAA to assure they get no future sanctions, just potential wins and the NC taken away. Money is always their answer so maybe they bought someone over there? I mean, if I am a kid or his parent I am asking the questions: How do you know that? How cab you possibly KNOW that everything is going to be fine?
They are doing a lot of talking and I hope the NCAA is taking notice! If anyone has ever deserved a serious punishment, its these cheating jerks!
"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel
I think SC does know
Not sure of the exact terms but I thought they had the “findings” letter that came with the demand for the meeting in Phoenix. (I may be wrong here).
So this is either an absolute lie by Kiffin OR the NCAA sanctions are not going to be tough.
Or worse, a kid not listening to what the coach is saying preciesly. Here is what is quoted: “but other than nothing could affect me or any of my team-mates in future.” The NCAA sanctions will not affect the individuals at all. It is precise. The sanctions would impact the program (future scholarships, bowl and TV restrictions) so, in fact, they wont cause direct individual harm.
The inbox should be to the recruits. Ask not how it will impact you. Ask how it will impact the program (loss of scholarships; TV; bowls)? And do any of those matter to you (like your friends being able to see you on TV).
Sorry to read more into his words, but the ones quoted could be true and grossly misleading at the same time
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Jan 20, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
not sure who has the connections for this
but that article needs to reach the inboxes of the NCAA committee asap.
If someone does send this along
please post to let us know. I can’t dig into finding NCAA info right now but could work on it tonight. I just don’t want to waste my time if someone has already done it by then.
NCAA Enforcement Committee Email
OK…Did some checking around on the NCAA site at the following link:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Legislation%20and%20Governance/Compliance/Major%20Infractions/faq_enforcement.html
It looks like to contact person for the Enforcement Staff which should support the COI (Committee on Infractions) is:
David Prince
dprice@ncaa.org
I will post my forward tonight after I have sent it.
Go Bruins!
by bruinlifer91 on Jan 20, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Ooooops....
It should be David PRICE and Not Prince…No one with the name Prince would be involved with the NCAA!
by bruinlifer91 on Jan 20, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Sent to David Price
I sent this to David Price but I am sure someone can add more color commentary:-)
As an ardent supporter, and believer, in the NCAA charter regarding student athletes, and more specifically those being recruited in the Pac-10 Conference, I want to bring your attention statements made by Dillon Baxter when announcing his decision to attend USC to play football. During his on TV announcement (KUSI, San Diego), Dillon Baxter specifically referenced conversations he had with Coach Lane Kiffin outlining, in detail, that USC will not suffer any forward looking penalties or probation to their football program due to infractions related to Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo that will be presented at the February COI meeting.
Dillon Baxter stated:
“All I was told that worst that could have happen is stuff that I mean … what happened with Reggie Bush is … take some losses away …but other than nothing could affect me or any of my team-mates in future.”
As USC should be taken to task during the February COI meeting to uphold and protect the definition of the student athlete, I find it disturbing that representatives from USC already have knowledge of the COI hearing outcome which draws into question the entire NCAA infractions and enforcement process.
by bruinlifer91 on Jan 20, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
If enough people who are disgusted with $C
send letters, then the NCAA might listen. Here’s my email to the PR lady from September:
September 15, 2009
Ms. Stacey Osburn
Associate Director of Public and Media Relations
The National Collegiate Athletic Association
700 W. Washington Street
P.O. Box 6222
Indianapolis , Indiana 46206-6222
Dear Ms. Osburn,
I am a devoted college sports fan and I care about the integrity of college sports, as I was a student-athlete for two years at a major division 1 school. After reading your statement in "Silence not so golden as USC guards athletics image" by Robyn Norwood for USA Today, I wanted to write to impress upon you the need to hold USC accountable for the loss of institutional control in their athletic department, with regard to men’s varsity football and basketball.
High school athletes across the country are seeing the USC juggernaut of a football program getting more and more successful, while seemingly getting away with infractions of your rules. More and more athletes are joining the football program, because of its success on the field and in the NFL draft, and the fact that they have not been held accountable for one infraction makes your institution look powerless and ineffective. NCAA Athletics, where student-athletes are supposed to compete on an amateur level, are being hijacked by programs likes this; they are being tarnished because of your lack of action.
I ask that the NCAA make an example of USC, which has shown a disregard and indifference to your rules. High school kids need to see your example of scrupulousness and need to see your organization take control of college athletics. USC has escaped too much, and now, as they correct their past mistakes, are just adding to their power and capitalizing on the breaking of past rules. There are implications for the legitimacy of your organization and the future of college athletics with this decision and investigation. I urge your committee to remain steadfast in this investigation.
Thank you very much.
hard copy to:
The National Collegiate Athletic Association
700 W. Washington Street
P.O. Box 6222
Indianapolis , Indiana 46206-6222
Sanctions
As a point of order, has the NCAA already decided on penalties (if any), or are those specific determinations made after the Feb 19 hearing with school officials?
(I always giggle when I say “school” when referring to $c*)
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
They should be decided after the Feb 19 meeting
At least, nothing would have been decided before the committee received and read USC’s response to the NCAA’s letter detailing its findings. Given the timing of the Basketball sanctions and the Yahoo Sports report, I imagine that to have been sometime early this month.
While members of the committee may have their own thoughts on that matter, I doubt any decision will have come about until they can fully digest the response and have the opportunity to further question at the hearing.
formerly bruinhoo
So it follows
that Lame really can’t be telling recruits that no serious penalties are coming. So he is either lying (again) or he has some insight as to what will occur.
Wish I were on that committee…
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
SC knows what the NCAA has found and can make an informed guess as to sanctions
The report that USC received (probably sometime in October) will have laid out the allegations of misconduct against USC and the findings that came out of the NCAA’s investigation (with or without USC’s cooperation). While SC still has it’s response and appearance at the hearing to make its case, given the manner in which NCAA investigations are conducted – investigators attempt to work with the institution in conducting the investigation – USC’s counter was likely already reflected in the NCAA’s initial letter of allegations.
While no decision has likely been made by the committee, there is precedent regarding sanctions applicable to programs for particular types of offenses (as well as positive/negative effects for cooperation or lack of cooperation with the investigation), and SC’s AD/compliance department has likely looked into that, and can come up with a realistic range of sanctions that may be applied by the committee.
formerly bruinhoo
Of course, Lame can be lying to recruits as to the degree of sanctions
Or the AD is lying to Lame.
formerly bruinhoo
If Hello Kiffin took the job without doing a little personal research first...
He deserves what he gets, and I know there are a ton of Tennessee fans that would love to see him get it. Personally, I think it would be poetic justice if Kiffin got shafted by the sanctions (entirely due to his own incompetence in not turning down the job). If Mike Garrett told me there would be no sanctions, he’d have to show me a picture of him paying off the committee for me to believe it.
Take some LOSSES away?
That would be pretty magnanimous of the NCAA. If they take enough of the losses away, maybe USC will end up with another National Championship out of all this. Maybe My Buddy Kiff mentioned that as a possibility, too.
LOL
That’s right Dillon, they’re just gonna take away SC’s LOSSES…..haha! Sounds like this guy is a perfect TrOJan!
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
by Blue Me on Jan 20, 2010 12:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That was great
So the NCAA is going to reward $C by taking some losses away. That makes sense.
It’s very interesting what Lame is telling these kids.
Doesn't seem like Baxter has command of the English language...
enough to understand what comes out of his own mouth. How can “taking losses away” from a football team ever be perceived as a punishment. They must be real proud of their new recruit.
Nope, don’t want that “student” athlete at UCLA. Although, he’ll probably get A+’s at $uck-u with that kind of logic.
I love it!!!
GO BRUINS!
Bruin-4-Life!!!
Minimal Sanctions?
I’m with Longbord. As much as it disgusts me, I truly believe that sc will escape serious punishment — and that sc knows this, today.
Whatever scum he may be, kitten probably would not have taken the job were he doomed to failure induced by the sanctions. He had a good job at a much better school. I find it hard to believe that he would take a leap of faith and jump to sc.
And, that’ s why he, and others at sc, can make the statements and promises they apparently are making.
They know that the punishments will look backward and not forward.
Does anyone really believe the NCAA has the stones to invoke the death penalty against sc? To even give them a serious “looking forward” penalty? I don’t.
sjh
A feeling nausea overcame me as I was read reading that...
…because I’m sure it’s true. How an institution and individuals so clearly guilty can get away with so much is something most will never understand. It looks as though the Bruins are going to have to go about making things right on the field and not rely on any outsiders for help. It’s the most satisfying way, for what’s it worth.
Trying for a shred of hope...
we know Petey knew something was up, or he wouldn’t have bailed for a pro job worse than the one he was in.
Death Penalty...
….it may very well be deserved but I don’t see the NCAA ever handing down the death penalty again. It ruined that program for 20+ years…
UCLA - Champions Made Here
agreed, but...
Rumor has it that they were very close to doing it for ‘Bama, and their infractions are about the same level as SUC. However, I don’t think they had/have as much pull with the NCAA as SUC. I’m hoping that the fact that their domination of the Pac10 came to a definitive end this year will decrease the amount of revenue-based leeway the NCAA is willing to provide them.
More than rumor
The infractions committee stated exactly that in their report. Though ’Bama’s infractions were actually quite a bit worse than what SC has been caught doing – and the worst of SC’s problems will likely fall on Basketball (Floyd/Gillory/Mayo); Alabama additionally was a double-repeat violator (the near-death penalty involved the program getting busted 2 years following another repeat violator sanction), which causes the NCAA to come down much harder than might otherwise be the case.
formerly bruinhoo
"It ruined that program for 20+ years…"
OK, and your point is?
and the conference
…it also was a starting point for the dissolution of the SouthWest Conference.
I’d love to see $c get hammered. But at the end of the day $c is a revenue generator for the NCAA so they have a vested interest in $c remaining viable.
UCLA - Champions Made Here
I repeat the questions, for the umpteenth time:
What is the evidence for the proposition that just$c* generates extraordinary revenue to the ncaa?
If there are 120 D-1 schools now, and if just$c* drops off the face of the earth making 119 D-1 schools, how would the revenue stream to the ncaa change in any significant way?
More generically, how does the ncaa get funded anyway? Is it contributions by member schools? A cut of revenue from each school? A cut of TV revenues? How much specifically is just$c* contributing?
I think it is the sheerest of sheer speculation (and I don’t have to tell you how much worse “sheer speculation” is than regular old speculation) to think that the revenue contributed by just$c* would be enough to impact the decision by the ncaa. (Of course, the under-the-table revenue into the private bank accounts of the ncaa investigators may be a factor, but I don’t suppose anyone has any information about that.)
Facts, please. How much money does the ncaa make off of just$c* and is it even remotely possible to replace that revenue stream?
I agree
NCAA makes money off of licensing the entire membership as far as I know. I think the PAC-10 would be more worried about the money and ratings more so than the NCAA.
That being said, I do think u$c* does sell a lot of merchandise to bandwagoneers in the L.A. area. I used to be against the NFL bringing a team to L.A. after the Rams/Raiders debacle, but now I think it would be a good idea. Make no mistake about it, I want an NFL precisely because it would hurt u$c* in that it would definitely take away a lot of their current fanbase.
Enjoy the sanctions, a$$holes.
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 20, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
OXYMORON
Isn’t using term “SC honestly telling recruits” an oxymoron
On the plus side
I went on to read the rest of that link (thanks N) and it sounds like Anthony Barr and Anthony Jefferson are set to commit in the next week or 2 and each has it down to 2 schools (UCLA and ND or Oregon, respectively). Did not know that Anthony Barr is the son of Reggie Brooks who some might remember formed half of one hell of a 1-2 punch with Jerome Bettis at ND back in the day. Also Jefferson had some nice things to say about CRN – probably nothing out of the ordinary, but a refreshing contrast to the disarray around the basketball program these days:
“UCLA was a great trip,” Jefferson said. "My whole family came with me and they all really enjoyed it too. I loved hanging out with all the recruits there and we got along really well.
“Coach (Rick) Neuheisel is a great person and just talking with him was probably the highlight of the visit for me. He takes care of his players and they all love and respect him. He’s really a player’s coach and would be fun to play for. Plus my family really enjoyed the visit and I was happy about that as well.
“Datone Jones was my host and he’s real cool. I know a lot of the players already and of course I know OC (Randall Carroll) since we played together at Cathedral. I just had a great comfort level there and really enjoyed this visit a lot.
Jefferson went in to the visit with the Ducks leading but said right now, it’s too close to call.
yup, maybe im reading it wrong
but i think he’s definite for ucla. he said he was ready to announce but is holding off til signing day because he and others are going to announce as a group. that seems to tip me towards thinking he’s decided on ucla… bam bam!
Across The Face
i wouldnt read too much into this...
kiffykins is trying to keep these kids on board he’s gonna tell them what they wanna hear. it’s not surprising that he is telling them this and it isn’t indicative of what is gonna happen. if a recruit chooses to believe him well that is on them. i mean they can look at tennesee’s incoming class and ask them how reliable kiffykins is. this guy has been scbound forever it wasnt going to take much cajoling to flip him back.
in another note what is up with sc’s school schedule? baxter is enrolling next week to start classes but they started already right?eh, i guess they don’t really show up to class anyway
Across The Face
death penalty
I’ve known a little about the SMU death penalty, but never really enough of the facts. I simply went to wikipedia and began reading. (about halfway down)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA)
It’s absolutely astonishing how similar $UC has been this past decade to SMU. Mentally replace the word SMU each time is shows up and you’ll think you’re reading about the trOJan program under Petey. It’s mindboggling, but I’m almost sure the NCAA won’t do 1/10 to SUC what they did to SMU. Sickening.
SMU was worse
Maybe not compared to what has actually gone down at USC, but going by what has come to light via ‘reliable sources’ (Yahoo Sports and other media sources), SMU’s conduct and arrogance in the 80’s was a step beyond even the folks across town (Sorry Ollie). The NCAA report on SMU can be found here, and details conduct including the direct monthly payment of players by the SMU AD from a slush fund provided by a booster who the NCAA had previously ordered disassociated from the program.
I wouldn’t be shocked if similar things were happening over there, but 1) they haven’t been caught at it, not by the NCAA, the LA Times (hahahahahaha), Yahoo Sports, BRO, TMZ, … ; and 2) If players are being compensated by $C boosters, I doubt that even USC’s athletic department is dumb enough to put themselves in the middle of such shenanigans (as SMU did).
formerly bruinhoo
Haha its ok, SMU 's level of paying players became absurd.
I’m not bitter that the NCAA came down hard on SMU, it really was out of control. Unfortunately, I just dont see any way SC’s punishment comes close to that level, although the probably deserve it.
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Not to put to fine a point on it.
I would respectfully disagree if what I’m reading is correct:
Violation Sumary: EXTRA BENEFITS: 21 football student-athletes received approximately $61,000 in cash payments, with the assistance of athletics department staff members, from funds provided by an athletics representative. REPEAT VIOLATOR.
While we could split hairs over “agents” versus “boosters” or player versus his or her parents, the fact remains that the player and therefore the university benefited from a violation of NCAA rules. If the rules were written in such a way that any two-bit outfit like u$c* could do an end around the rules simply by setting up proxies (to my mind this is what they did), then why have rules? If rules can be simply ignored because of one degree of separation, they are easily thwarted and ineffective. Why have them?
Reggie Bu$h’s parents received something like 200K – 400K in benefits. Although, SMU had more of an official university connection, the amount of benefit pales in comparison. Broadly interpreted, SUC broke the rules in that they allowed a player to be benefited and then they reaped a benefit as well. If the university turns a blind eye to players getting money, they also benefit in that they become known as a place that lets you get away with things like this. That is a selling point and that is precisely why the degrees of separation make no difference to me in regard to NCAA rules.
Futhermore, isn’t SUC a repeat offender at the time these infractions occurred? Give them the Death Penalty
Enjoy the sanctions, a$$holes.
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 20, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Different backgrounds to these cases
The university connection to the payment is significant in terms of what the actual NCAA violation is. While it is certainly possible for a school to use boosters and other persons not working for the school as go-betweens, you still have to determine where the payments (or at least the idea/inspiration) came from, and what the intent of the payments were.
In the Bush matter, the payments (and resulting ineligibility) came from Lake and Michaels due to their own self-interest, after Bush was playing for USC. There does not seem to be any evidence that the “New Era” folks had any connection to USC, nor did they have an interest in the team’s success (aside from Bush’s success > a more valuable player to market). The key issue with USC in this particular matter has to do with (lack of) control and oversight over the program, in that the coaching and/or the compliance staff. In contrast, the OJ Mayo situation (which I believe is where the NCAA will really come down on USC) involved the coaching staff paying a player’s representative on at least one occasion, during his recruitment to the university.
The summary of above: It appears that Bush’s ineligibility was not caused by the actions of either the SC staff/administration or boosters; the money was not paid to benefit SC (to recruit him to the school, for example) nor was his playing for USC the motivation for the payments – It did not make a difference to “New Era” if Bush was playing for USC, or UCLA/ASU/Michigan… maybe aside from the increased media attention that SC had, and the access that Bush/USC’s proximity to them gave. SC’s main problem here (besides simply having an ineligible player participate in games) relates to Institutional control, oversight of athletics, and policies that allowed persons such as the New Era people to have easy access to players. Mayo, on the other hand, was paid by a USC coach, during the period of his recruitment.
In the Alabama and SMU cases, there were indisputable linkages between the $$ and the university’s athletic department and coaching staffs. SMU had a booster-funded slush fund, from which money was distributed by the athletic department to players. In Alabama’s case, boosters were providing money and cars to players (and in one case, a players HS coach) directly, under the coordination of the Football coaching staff.
If the NCAA can show that USC’s lax compliance regime and/or Pete Carroll’s permissive policies re. agent access to practices and games is a systematic effort to allow players to benefit from meeting such people, or that they are allowing boosters to access players or recruits (as Alabama did), then there is a similarity to the biggies.
SC is considered a repeat offender if the (major) offense occurred before Fall 2006, which encompasses Bush’s career. From having looked at several different Infraction committee reports, even in massively blatant cases, they do not look likely to impose the Death Penalty absent a multiple-repeat infraction (SMU and Alabama were both double repeat offenders; SMU for a similar violation to what got them banned).
formerly bruinhoo
Great write-up
And this is precisely my point to which we both agree:
If the NCAA can show that USC’s lax compliance regime and/or Pete Carroll’s permissive policies re. agent access to practices and games is a systematic effort to allow players to benefit from meeting such people, or that they are allowing boosters to access players or recruits (as Alabama did), then there is a similarity to the biggies. (forgive me if this is not exactly right, I had to type because my copy/paste is broken in Firefox)
And it is what destroys trOJay apologists’ arguments. My point is that the university benefits from actions that are in violation of the rules, it should not matter that the means by which the players receive the benefits are different. Now, I agree that agents do not have the same intent as the university. I think though that intent should matter if u$c* turns a blind eye to what is going on. If they did so, intentionally, they stand to benefit from the player getting benefits and it should not matter where the money comes from. It’s almost as if there are two bad actions as opposed to one. Agent/Booster (both not officially connected with the university) → player = benefit to university as opposed to agent/booster → player + the university turning a blind eye = benefit to the university.
SMU had a slush fund and people working with the university in an official capacity involved. I believe that this makes what they did slightly more culpable in terms of intent. However, the amount of money changing hands and the spectrum of violations (e.g. McSUV’s SUV), they are comparable. This assumes that SUC had intentionally turned a blind eye which is hard to argue in the Mayo case.
Certainly a debatable point. Thanks for the response.
Enjoy the sanctions, a$$holes.
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 20, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
"hard not to argue"
Enjoy the sanctions, a$$holes.
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 21, 2010 12:38 AM PST up reply actions
Can't stand these guys.
Why does it seem like these a holes always seem to get over. They have a smugness about them with the belief they will always come out on top. I really can’t stand these people and that joke of a institution. Like some others on this site I too think they will get away with no major punishment. Maybe they will take away sum losses. With all that said we can still beat these d bags on and off the field and now that they hired daddys girl to coach our chances got a whole lot better.
by uclamike on Jan 20, 2010 4:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions
marsh leaning towards ucla?
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4842854&name=West_Recruiting&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index%3fentryID%3d4842854%26name%3dWest_Recruiting
i don’t have espn insider, but i’m assuming the headline refers to marsh. wouldn’t that be huge?
Across The Face
man that would be awesome to get two fellow OC boys this year!
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Hello Kiffy Can Look These Kids In The Eye And Lie
And if they sign on and he’s wrong, he’ll just say “Oops, I was misinformed, etc.” and the kid is stuck.
Of course Kiffy can!
Why? Consider the Hare Sociopathy Checklist [formerly the Cleckly Psychopathy Checklist]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
Both checklists are not limited to serial felons, beloved of film and TV writers. So-called non-violent sociopaths are not entirely made up of used-car salesmen and Hedge Fund Managers.
Kiffen is a liar. When will recruits ever learn, sc is an institution of cheaters,
and liars,….. the end justifies the means, win at all cost seems to be their continued mantra. I hope finally justice can be served and this investigation goes somewhere other than no where with real penalties and consequences for continually BREAKING THE RULES!!!!

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