Criticism of the Not that Big of a Deal, Whatever
by Cully on Jan 22, 2010 3:18 PM PST
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PrintEDIT: To symbolize the fact that most of us have moved on from this silly disagreement, I changed the headline to something less inflamatory. I think it's pretty clever. Beat the Ducks.
I will start by saying this:
I was in the Den last night. I tried to run out onto the court. My actions are the subject of front page ridicule on this site that I read religiously. I am offended.
Let me tell you why.
Many of you have made the point that last night's game was played in a Pauley pavilion that was half full. Well those of us sitting in the den were the ones who don't care that our team is struggling, who don't care that we had to wait in line in the rain to get our priority passes, who don't care that Washington was a heavy favorite to beat us. We are the die hards. We are the true faithful. I do not mean to diminish your fandom if you could not make it last night, I merely want to point out that those of us sitting in the den last night represent a new generation of UCLA fans, and that we are committed to carrying the tradition of passionate fandom on our shoulders.
I know that our response probably seems a little silly in a place with 11 national title banners hanging from the rafters, but it was a simple emotional reaction. And it was fun. Our team has its flaws, but watching Reeves Nelson and Tyler Honeycutt fight for every board gave me hope for the future last night. Our guys went to war in the last few minutes of that game, and I couldn't have been prouder of them. At one point Reeves Nelson took a split second to acknowledge the den after hitting a free throw, and together we all knew that fans matter. We are the home court advantage.
So coming from a person who spent every single second of UW's posessions screaming at the top of my lungs and bouncing up down, trust me when I tell you that rushing the court wasn't a comment about the future of UCLA basketball. Stop assigning some overreaching and overblown grandeur to a simple moment of joy. If someone deserves criticism from last night's victory, it's the alumni who wouldn't get off their feet even in the last minute. If you were sitting down when Mustafa drained that game winner, I'm calling you out.
I will keep on loving UCLA with all of my heart whether we are undefeated or winless, and when we do something spectacular, unexpected, or even just out of the ordinary, I will celebrate with all of my ability. If you feel that over the top exuberance and excessively-passionate fans are a problem worth complaining about, I would point you in the direction of the cynical soulless fans who left their season ticket seats empty last night. I did my part. Did you?
And to Nestor, I will continue to loyally read this site (there's no better place to read about the bruins I love), however, I ask that you consider a qualified apology to the den. Yes, our reaction may have been more than was called for, but it came from a good place.
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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I agree 100%
Let the passion for the game and for our team show through. I could give a rat’s ass what those who expect to win every game by 20 points think. I have a word for those people…..“idiots”
This is not the 60’s or even 70’s. Wooden is not the coach and there will NEVER be another 88 game winning streak or coach with double digit national titles in this sport again….EVER.
WAKE UP! Our program is subject to the same struggles and pitfalls that any other program in the country is regardless of our tradition.
The tradition is wonderful, it is something to be proud of and something that we as fans have bragging rights to….but it is also far in the past. You cannot ask a fanbase to “act like they’ve been there before” when 90% of the fans HAVEN’T BEEN THERE BEFORE.
There will be down years and there will be up years. “Fans” who attend a game and criticize the current students for being too boisterous should be ashamed of themelves.
by UCLABruins4Ever on Jan 22, 2010 3:34 PM PST reply actions
I agree as well
The younger fans, me included, haven’t been around for those championships. We didn’t experience Edney’s coast to coast. The closest thing we have is the Gonzaga win, which my roommates and I were jumping around the apartment hysterically. Yeah, maybe some of the people on BN know what UCLA was back then and what it felt like but we don’t.
However,UCLA basketball has the potential to be so much more since we’re a storied school so maybe we should cut back on rushing the court. I see it in the same effects as why Pauley doesn’t hoist up Pac-10 Championship Banners. Hanging Howland’s Pac10 Banners would be disrespect to Wooden’s Banners.
The Den should expect greater things. UCLA can and will do better. Save the rushing for when we’re on top of the mountain someday.
GO BRUINS
Good job Cully and Sideout
I really appreciate the well-written responses from current students. BN really needs more contributions from you guys.
I do think the alumni population here in BN sometimes get too “high and mighty” over our tradition. Far too often, we stereotype students as ignorant youths with no recognization of our deep history. Yes, there may be some bad apples… and there may even be some “new” Bruins fans. Either way, the Den should be exempt from some of vile comments directly at you guys last night.
As a student during the Lavin years, all I can say is that the Den is doing a far better job today than it was when I was on campus. I see more unity and organization in the student section than before. Instead of just critizing, we should educate and encourage better student behaviors.
Yes, our reaction may have been more than was called for, but it came from a good place.
Couldn’t have said it any better. Keep on cheering and enjoying your front court student experience. I wished I had done more of that during my time at UCLA!
I don't know in what world
being favored by 1.5 points make someone a ‘heavy favorite’.
This isn’t an alumni vs students thing. There are also plenty of students who were in the Den who did NOT attempt to rush the court, because they have a sense of what it means to be UCLA. Insofar as they people at “The Den” represent the Den, they are against rushing the court.
Though, perhaps there is some contingent among the alumni who are offended that a student body who do not manage to fill the student sections at the Rose Bowl and Pauley, and who don’t even defend the Bruin Bear from being defiled by $Cum, have the temerity to run onto the court after a home win over a school we beat roughly 9 times out of 10 at home, and make us look like some midmajor when the highlights are on national TV. As fans, it’s bad enough that people are laughing at us for how our season is going; it makes it worse when our own fans invite ridicule for their behavior.
Yeah, I don't get this heavy favorite thing
Washington was favored by 1.5 points and lost their two Pac-10 road games by 17 each game.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Jan 22, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
There you go again
attacking the people who actually show up. I don’t understand it.
So because I show up while some of my peers don’t, because my tenure’s team isn’t playing well, because Washington isn’t Kansas or Duke, I’m not allowed to get excited over what was one of the most exciting wins in recent memory? Instead, I must accept my place as the fan who should not support a struggling team while staring reverently at the banners that were hung well before my time.
As I said in my post, rushing the court was stupid in retrospect, but high-fiving a friend and then walking home would be more embarrassing than the excitement witnessed last night. If all this team sees is that we (read: you and everyone else who continues to badmouth the supporters) just sit idly by while waiting for something better to come along before giving our support, then there is no incentive for them to improve. Your attitude towards how this struggling team should be handled is nothing more than a self-fulling prophecy.
Not going to bad mouth
but I will add something. Banners are hung at UCLA every year in pretty much every sport (I know, an exaggeration, but not much of one).
Supporting a team that isn’t that great is pretty exciting. 13-9 was exciting and we had no chance in hell of beating them. Everyone in that stadium should have rushed the field.
So, I’m not going to judge you guys for doing it there. I think that if the team fights, we should support them. If they don’t, they got no right to wear that uniform. I think that is what everyone is really asking for, this team to show some fight. We’ll see how that goes over the rest of the season.
BTW, we need to also support our other winning teams at UCLA. Please feel free to rush the Rose Bowl when we play SUC this season or rush to fill the rest of our teams’ meets and matches whenever you can. The SUCsters think that it’s their second home. Let’s show them they ain’t wanted there. The atmosphere should be belligerent, electric, and packed to capacity with a sea of True Blue. Also, as far as I’m concerned, that Bruin is never getting vandalized again. I got my lawn chair and some free time on my hands so I’ll be there.
Enjoy the sanctions, a$$holes.
by Bruins102NCAA on Jan 22, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
I show up while some of my peers don’t
That’s great. Get your peers to show up too.
I’m not allowed to get excited
No-one says you shouldn’t get excited. They are saying ‘act like you’re a Bruin’ and don’t rush the court when we beat UW. Go nuts. Jump up and down and cheer for MA-H.
I must accept my place as the fan who should not support a struggling team
No, you should support a struggling team with all you have got. Make a ton of noise all the way through the game and do what you can to raise your struggling team’s energy and distract the opposition. Running onto the court after the team has won isn’t ‘supporting a struggling team’, it’s being indulgent and overcelebrating a close-fought but not particularly significant win. If rushing the court was a reward for the players, then the other teams of the last 5 years have had games more worthy of this reward (see, for example, when we came from 21 behind to beat a heavily favored UW team at home for our first win over a ranked team by CBH). But those weren’t often buzzer beaters after giving up a go-ahead basket with 3.2 seconds, so they shouldn’t be rewarded with that ‘incentive to improve’?
If all this team sees is that we (read: you and everyone else who continues to badmouth the supporters) just sit idly by while waiting for something better to come along before giving our support,
See above. Cheer for the team and give support. Running onto the court doesn’t show any more support or give anyone ‘incentive to improve’. Running onto the court is all about you, and not about your team. If your team wants to come and bask in the Den’s adulation, by all means let them come over to the sideline. They have earned the right to be on that court and you haven’t. Rushing the court because YOU are excited is not a justification.
High-fiving a friend and walking away would also be inappropriate, but that doesn’t mean that rushing the court is correct. Some people got overexcited because of the dramatic nature of the victory. If we had played slightly better and sunk a few of those free throws when we had the chance, there would have been no rushing of the court; that tells you how much the ‘rushing of the court’ was about celebrating the team and how much of it was just people getting caught up in the moment. I hope that in any similar situations in the future people have the sense to not attempt to rush the court.
by britishbruin on Jan 22, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
should add some things.
that I am glad that you guys were there, and care about the team, and cheer them to the best of your ability; I don’t know why this topic has become so violent.
I certainly have a lot more ire for the thousands of people who didn’t show up to the game than for the small number who got overexcited. The fact of the matter is, those people who didn’t show are anonymous, so we don’t have anyone to complain at. There’s no excuse for Pauley to be half-full / half-empty for a Pac-10 game, and I am just as embarrassed about the attendance.
At the same time, rushing the court is not just a really exuberant way of showing excitement. It has taken on more meaning than that, for whatever reason. If you choose to rush the court, you are doing something that will offend a lot of UCLA fans in this most historic of basketball programs. You can either respect their beliefs or decide that their beliefs are irrelevant. You can play along, or expect the others to swallow their irritation; either way you should be aware of the emotion that such behavior inspires so you can make the decision with full knowledge
by britishbruin on Jan 22, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
respectfully disagree
you basically say we’re wrong for criticizing you all because you don’t think you were wrong. that’s not a very good argument. but you yourself state that the attempt to rush the floor was a bit silly. agreed, except that a lot of us thought it was very silly. we get the excitement. i jumped out of my seat when that shot hit. but to jump out of your seat in celebration and rush the floor are two separate and different actions. rushing the floor is an awesome thing used to celebrate momentous wins. beating washington in an up or down year is never that at ucla.
Across The Face
agree with you cully
i am an avid fan and will continue to read bruinsnation but i am getting very tired of the negative comments and threads. When i logged on last night before the game….the only message i got from game open thread was that its hopeless and we should give up. i was at ucla during lavin years and that was hopeless. give these guys a chance to improve and support your team. by the way…i fully support Ben Howland.
If you don't like what you see here...
…then stop reading BN. We don’t need you or your crybaby attitude. Rushing the court for barely beating a sorry-ass UW is pathetic. Just f**king pathetic. Any current student who thinks it’s okay is obvious oblivious to the history of our program or the state of our program. Period.
If you don’t like what we have to say here, then leave. We’ll do just fine without you.
I agree
As an alumni who sits up high, I am so glad that the den shows such enthusiasm. I wish the alumni did the same. Where I sit, if you stand up after a great play, people yell “sit down”. This team may not be what the alumni are used to, but they worked hard last night and deserve to be passionately celebrated…especially with that kind of ending. It’s about the moment and the den acted in the moment…celebrating a wonderful moment. I just wish the older ones would join in more!
I gotta back up Cully on this
It would be wonderful if everyone could have had the experiences I had as an undergrad. I remember vividly seeing Goodrich walking down Bruin Walk as I was walking up and thinking that his arms were about twice as long as a normal human’s. I remember storming the field at the Crapaseum when we won 20-16 in ’65. I have lots of those memories. Most of them were things that just happened.
In my opinion, the only differences between mildly cheering quietly while remaining seated and screaming at the top of your lungs and storming the court are simply matters of degree. If you have to sit quietly, so be it, but don’t be made at me if I scream, and I won’t be mad at the guy who storms the court. (As an aside, I will get made at people who see the camera, do something, and then yell “Wooo.” I think yelling “wooooo” like a pre-teen girl is demeaning. Please, Den, when you’re on camera, say anything but “Woooo.” It sounds silly.)
One more thing, Cully. You said, “We are the die hards. We are the true faithful.” Not only are you not the only ones, but a statement like that means that you have taken the first small steps on the road to geezerdom. The first thing you have to do upon embarking on this road is to select a good proctologist.
I don't agree, but I respect your opinion
I am a UCLA senior, so I was here for two of the Final Four years. We never rushed the court, even after winning two consecutive Pac-10 titles. But of course, we had just made the championship game the previous year, so I can understand if newer students (like freshmen!) have not been part of any good UCLA basketball this year.
It did cross my mind to consider, abeit briefly, the idea of storming the field after our 13-9 win over USC in 2006. It remains the only victory over USC I have ever seen in football (and sometimes older alums should at least consider the perspective of newer students who did not in fact ever see UCLA be good at a sport), and we knocked SC out of the title game.
I think we should only rush the basketball court for a UCLA national championship, and the football field when we lock up a Rose Bowl appearance, but my views are shaped by being in the Class of 2010. If I were here a different year, it’s likely my views would differ. Nothing wrong with that.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
and
13-9 snapped a 7 game losing streak to $C, preventing $C from following our 8 game win streak in the series with 8 of their own; and we were a massive underdog to the #2 team in the country.
by britishbruin on Jan 22, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
1. Thank you, Cully and Sideout. As an alumnus that lives very far away, I appreciate your fandom very much. I was also jumping and screaming during that game…on my couch, though ;)
2. I wouldn’t get too offended by what people say about rushing the court. It’s fun for students…that’s it. If your joy leads you to storm the court and celebrate with the team, then I say go for it. I’m not embarrassed by anything tWWL says…eff them.
+1
Keep up the enthusiasm.
Sincerely,
’05 alum.
by LavinRuinedCollege on Jan 22, 2010 7:53 PM PST reply actions
One thing that should be mentioned:
For new students, nobody ever tells them, ’don’t rush the court’. That’s the sort of thing you have to learn, or know about because of the history. If you asked the students in the Den when our last basketball championship was, I doubt half could tell you. For this reason, it is understandable that newer students would feel it appropriate to rush the court. Most of what they’ve seen out of UCLA basketball, honestly, is mid-major level, so it would seem fitting that they behave like mid-major fans.
Here’s something else. It’s awesome to say that we shouldn’t rush the court because of our tradition. That feels great to say. Add to that, though, this: how many times do you think the court was rushed during Wooden’s tenure? And you want to tell me you can sit in stand in the student section with John Wooden, the Coach, the Wizard of Westwood, sitting just across the court, and decide that yes, we should rush the court? Come on, now.
by Captain Leebeard on Jan 22, 2010 8:37 PM PST reply actions
i see every game, i see those banners on the rafters and i respect them, i see the 1995 banner so its an exaggeration to say we don’t know history, plenty of non mid-majors rush as well (ACC teams, Big-Ten, etc etc etc), but honestly, this year we look like a mid-major and maybe our team needs it, this is the attitude that i think needs to be shifted slightly as i said here- http://ranjeremysports.blogspot.com/2010/01/rush-court-yes-we-will.html
i dont mean to use this blog to advertise another, this blog is the golden standard and i just used another blog to respond to instead of posting a lengthy comment, if the linking is inappropriate let me know and i have no problem taking it down
by gobruins12345 on Jan 22, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
i'm not saying
that anyone who posts here doesn’t know there basketball history. I’m saying a large portion of the student body does not. It’s one of the drawbacks of having good academics and a good location; people come here for reasons other than amazing athletics.
by Captain Leebeard on Jan 22, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
no
We don’t need to act like mid-major fans just because our team is in a down year. In a down year, we should encourage our team with cheering and keep showing up for our team even if results are not so good. We should NOT make ourselves look like chumps by rushing the court to celebrate beating UW.
Going nuts in the stands to celebrate an improbable game winning shot is one thing. Storming the court as though something monumental has occurred is something else entirely.
by britishbruin on Jan 23, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I would like this proof that we looked like chumps in front of the entire country. ESPN did an article on it : http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/ucla/post/_/id/136/mustafa-abdul-hamids-game-winner-prompts-student-frenzy. While it does criticize slightly (a UCLA student), I would hardly say it made us look bad. Do you know what DOES make us look like chumps in front of the country? Being 7-10. That’s bad. That’s real bad. Records are what causes people to gain respect, not rushing the court. And if rushing the court gets our team to play with emotions, then hell, let’s rush the court.
by gobruins12345 on Jan 23, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
the first thing I saw when I turned on my TV this morning
was a gameday piece on the court-stormings of recent days. There was some debate about whether or not Kansas State should have stormed the court after knocking off #1 Texas, as to whether or not that was ‘monumental’ enough to warrant it.
Where there was no debate: that Duke, UNC, UCLA, Indiana, Kansas should really be above storming the court.
“Who could Kansas beat that would possibly warrant rushing the court? The Lakers!?”
Yeah, it’s embarrassing that our team is bad. No need for fans to add to the embarrassment by rushing the court. Our record says we are bad; rushing the court says that we are so bad that a moment of decent performance – beating UW at home on a buzzer beater – is as great to us as knocking off a #1 team is to a midmajor.
Our team’s record – and, more importantly, performance – is below the standards set at UCLA over the past 5 years (let alone the Wooden years). Rushing the court says we are drastically lowering our standards and expectations.
by britishbruin on Jan 23, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
support for the den
As an alumnus who did witness a national championship, I fully support you guys showing your emotions and have absolutely no problem with you guys rushing the court. I only wish I could have when I was there.
post 13-9, post Final Fours
As a current 3rd year at UCLA I can say that it’s not easy being the class that just missed 13-9 and the class that couldn’t get tickets during the Kevin Love years. UCLA basketball and athletics as a whole are top notch and I agree that retrospectively, we (I was on the court too) shouldn’t have done it.
But I don’t regret it. After I saw the shot, the emotions took over. It was UCLA basketball again—trying to storm the court felt as natural as yelling while we’re on defense. The Den’s emotions were a large part of that victory and that comes with celebration.
um
the class that couldn’t get tickets during the Kevin Love years
cry me a river. As someone who was a recent alum that year and in grad school elsewhere, I was able to buy tickets from the CTO. Sorry if you couldn’t get $7 tickets and would have had to pay $25.
Rushing the court because a victory over UW is the most exciting thing you happen to have seen in your brief undergraduate career again shows that you don’t understand what rushing the court signifies.
by britishbruin on Jan 23, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
And for all
who think Nestor doesn’t allow dissent on this blog, you have been proven wrong.
Bruins fans can respectfully disagree and still get along.
Thank You All
Thanks for the positive responses, and the negative. I really appreciate that this community allowed me an opportunity to air my grievances.
I would like to reinforce one point. In the words of British Bruin:
you don’t understand what rushing the court signifies.
I think this is where we fundamentally disagree. UCLA has a great number of sacred traditions. Being able to say the word Coach and have every single Bruin know what you mean is a wonderful thing. Being able to sit(STAND!) in Pauley under those banners is a phenomenal experience. Attributing a sacred symbolism to rushing the court is semiotic(yeah, I learned that word at UCLA) overkill. I dream of rushing the court for a national title, and that is the purpose that unites us all.
Also, those of you who called me out on the idea that Washington were heavy favorites are completely correct, they were merely favored by a small margin. I apologize for that error. I think this speaks to my point that our jubilance had more to do with the way we won, not that we won. Like many Bruin fans, MAH is one of my favorite guys out there because I admire hard work. Like many Bruin fans, Reeves is one of my favorite players because he represents our future and the toughness that is typical of Ben Ball. It was fun, and it didn’t mean anything, I just wanted to pat MAH on the back like a hundred other people.
Again, thank you for allowing and participating in the discourse. I promise this is the last time I will post about our differences.
I’m stuck in a meeting, but, 47-33 at the moment. GO BRUINS.
GO BRUINS.
Actually
I want you to post more about our differences. There is nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with bringing it passion. We have no problem with disagreements. It’s happened many times before in this community. We have only gotten stronger out of it. What we just don’t care for is attacks (direct or indirect) on the moderators who are here every day … running this place out of pure love for UCLA. Just won’t tolerate that. Otherwise, we are more than ok with disagreeing with each other and talking it all out.
you're missing the point
about not understanding what rushing the court signifies.
The basic ‘meaning’ of rushing the court is the same everywhere – “something of huge significance just happened”
What’s different at UCLA – and Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, etc – is the standard by which “huge signficance” is judged.
The argument that ‘this was just spontaneous and in retrospect we shouldn’t have done it and probably shouldn’t do it again in similar circumstances’ is one thing; an argument that rushing the court was justified and we should do it again under similar circumstances just seems like an insult. But whatever. Perhaps the team will now win every game by double digits the rest of the season, so as to avert the possibility of this type of mistake in the future… Go Bruins!
by britishbruin on Jan 23, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
All right ... all right
I think we should let this topic go at this point. We have all made out points. Duked it out. Let’s celebrate the win and think about next week.
I will be a happy camper if we can finish over .500 this season and show signs of growth for rest of the season. Not sure it’s going to happen but we will see.
As for rushing the court I think our message has been clear but we appreciated the passionate response from the students. Let’s move on and keep the discussion going.
As I said in other thread the net result will be that this community is going to get even stronger.
It looks like this horse has been beaten beyond death
In my time at UCLA, I didn’t rush the court, but for a totally different reason — you weren’t allowed to. I guess I was a wuss-geezer even back then, but having that be a rule was enough. I also didn’t throw the cards when I sat in the card section. I guess I was more sheep-like than Bruin-like, but that’s the reason.
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