Thoughts On Bridging The Bruin "Generation Gap" On BN

I fall into category C: Bruins alumni who looks at the overall student experience.

The current Freshman at UCLA were about 3 years old when we last won a championship in basketball. They saw 3 final four teams in the last 5 years but other then that the Bruin history of winning, they’ve witnessed, is the Steve-16 era.

Perhaps a current student at UCLA sees this years team and worries it could end up as a repeat of 01-02 and runs onto the court in a state of bliss because wins like Thursday will help us avoid a losing record and a possible return to the Lavin era results.

Please do not delete this post.

A couple of things are clear. Although the younger people might understand what we’re talking about, I don’t think they can feel the emotion of what we are talking about sometimes. That means, at least to me, that we geezers have to do a better job of conveying that emotion.

Another thing is that these are the days that will be the good old days when the new guys are geezers, and the current class of geezers have become ex-geezers and joined the choir invisible. I encourage you to embrace that passion. Get excited. If your passion bucket is overflowing, let it. There are a few guys who managed to cram four years into five or six or seven, but generally, most people are going to be four and out. Don’t watch all four of your years from the stacks at Powell.

Nestor was right in one respect. I think the passion bucket needs to have a drop of reason injected. Save the rushing the court for an appropriate time. You’ll know it when you see it. Wazzou wasn’t it, in my opinion. I can understand why it happened (or almost happened) but I don’t really agree with it.

I encourage you youngsters to enjoy your student times before you have to put student days behind you and start working.

Now, after all that stuff that I encourage you to do, here are some things I wish you wouldn’t do. Don’t use bad English. Don’t abuse your friend the apostrophe. Don’t watch games with the volume up. And when you’re on camera, don’t say “Woo” in a falsetto voice. In fact, if you observe all those, I’ll look the other way if you want to rush the court.

Who is the greatest Bruin of all?

Anybody’s list of nominations includes Jackie Robinson.

But nobody who writes here ever saw him play at UCLA and can relate the passion with which he could steal home. I actually met a super geezer who was a sportswriter for the Daily Bruin who covered Mr. Robinson. The aging sportswriter said, “Man, could he steal home.” I saw a video of a former appellate court judge who played with Mr. Robinson and he described how he played. These contemporaries described Mr. Robinson in a way I can’t.

Alums like me who saw John Wooden teams play can give perspective of the coach and his players. An entering freshman next September will not really understand 13-9 but somebody who was there can relate things no DVD of the game can—and they can relate it here.

The wonder of the Internet is some sites collect history. That happens here and the historical perspective of generations of Bruins can be amazing to an 18 year old Bruin.

and part of what came out in the discussions about the court rushing thing, is that there are frustrations directed at ‘students’ as though they are a unified group.

Certainly part of what seems frustrating as an alum (speaking only for myself as an alum, not claiming this is universal) is for “the students” not to be passionate enough about their team to fill the student sections at Pauley, but for “the students” to then claim that their outpouring of passion justified rushing the court. We also get frustrated when “the students” fail to protect the Bruin bear from $C vandalism and make excuses about having papers due etc.

If you were to assume that these were all the same people – and the brain is capable of some incredible cognitively dissonant ideas – you end up with the impression of some curious composite who doesn’t care about our rivalry with $C and manages to both not be at Pauley and to be storming the court at Pauley at the same time…

“The alumni” meanwhile are a group of old people sitting on their hands at Pauley, only getting off them momentarily in order to post comments like “the student sections are empty” on internet message boards. The alumni are simultaneously stuck in the past and using twitter to vent their anger in realtime.

Clearly, all the people here are THE GOOD GUYS (and gals). We have a shared responsibility to uphold all that is right in the gold and blue world. Given the tens of thousands of students and tens of thousands of alumni living in Los Angeles, it is a crying shame if we do not fill a 12,000 (ish) capacity stadium for a conference game.

There is also something to be said about the rhetoric of anger and tone. I am one of the people who sometimes rails at what I perceive to be overly negative sentiment directed at individuals in some of the front page posts (and comments). When the court storming thing came up, I thought there could have been less focus on that in the aftermath of a pretty thrilling victory and more emphasis on some solid play and a nice story. I thought “yeah, that’s pretty dumb… but not the main thing that happened tonight… I hope those men and women realize that it was dumb and don’t try that again”. I then totally flipped out when people started giving justifications and saying that people should be able to storm the court if they want to, and that it isn’t a big deal to storm the court, and that standards for storming the court are different with a team like we have this year, etc. I definitely went way overboard in pursuing those arguments because it seemed we were being told “no, you’re wrong, storming the court is fine; your reaction to it is outdated and ridiculous; how our actions make you feel is your problem, not ours”. It applies to both sides, but saying that a particular emotional reaction is wrong seems to bite more than saying a particular action was inappropriate or not. I think the arguments we engaged in led to a lot of crossed wires, with people feeling like their beliefs and emotions were under attack, rather than getting down to (as) rational (as possible) discussion of actions. Perhaps because Ken Pom doesn’t keep any court-storming-efficiency statistics with which to ground the discussion… ;-)

Anyway, apologies for my part in sending those threads off in a non-productive direction.

I think the generation gap is what it is. It applies to pretty much any sport, any team; it’s just a bit more extreme when it comes to UCLA basketball because UCLA was THE team, no arguments, back in the days. 10 titles in 12 seasons is absolutely insane. With a winning tradition like that, it’s obvious why the folks who were there and actually remember it would have such high expectations.

But it’s hard to expect the same out of those who weren’t there for it. It’s easy to say “go learn the history” but it’s not the same as living it. Peggysue69 said it pretty well – it’s one thing to understand Jackie Robinson was a great ball player, it’s another to have actually been there and understood why. To use another personal example, I have some of the same problem when I talk about the Raiders with my dad. He was a fan of them in their heyday in the 70s and early 80s – when they were in the AFC Championship game every year against the hated Steelers and had great characters and great moments. Me? I grew up on Gruden and Gannon and the 7 years of wretchedness since then. I can appreciate the winning tradition, but my point of view automatically goes back to the veteran-laden team that got to the Super Bowl in 2002 instead of thinking of Stabler, Biletnikoff, Marcus Allen, etc.

Kinda the same for UCLA BB. I love John Wooden, but I’ve never seen the guy in action. I couldn’t name any Bruins from that era other than Abdul-Jabbar (terrible, I know). Heck, I came into UCLA athletics later than most since I didn’t start attending until 2007 and I’m the first person in my family with any UCLA ties. So I’ve grown up on the Ben Ball era. I haven’t even the (dis)pleasure of knowing the Lavin era.

I guess this is a longabout way of saying that I just don’t think there’s any way to really make the history the same unless you were there for it. While it’s nice to be able to adhere to the “we only make a big deal out of championship banners here” rhetoric, I don’t think you can ever make it real for students unless UCLA starts winning title after title again. And that’s why it feels a bit weird when an alum first gets mad at the students for not showing enough interest (poor football attendence, protecting the bear, etc) and then gets mad at the students for showing too much interest (semi-rushing the court after beating Washington). I realize the latter can be seen as showing a lack of pride but without the history and point of view, it’s not really. Obviously Britishbruin’s point about not being able to take “the students” and “the alumni” as indivisble groups rings true as well.

Just gotta try to take the other contexts into consideration, I guess. This post seemed to have turn into rambling nonsense without much of a point. If there is a conclusion I guess I’d say that the generation gap is what it is.

Please don’t take any of this the wrong way and go ahead and delete this post if need be. I also apologize for the negative feel to it but yea, getting straight to maybe why students and the younger newer generation are not posting here…

I think part of the problem is the “clique” feel to this site. This site is run based on related content, stats, or facts to back up every argument. The administrators and regulars to this site will bring up topics and argue their points but any casual person that stops by speaking their opinion without this support is taking shots to the tune of “Please don’t make baseless arguments or accusations, if you don’t like what we are saying or can’t argue properly just don’t read what we write and you won’t be missed, etc.”

Aren’t some of these people exactly the ones that need to be reached? I understand that the number of trolls here are probably ridiculous but some of those are normal fans. If I’m just a casual student stopping by the site and I see this among the criticism of current students, I don’t know about anyone else but I would bet some are thinking “Ok. This is Los Angeles. UCLA has sucked ever since I was old enough to care. I have other things I can do with my time instead.” Excuse the pessimism, but seriously, in my opinion student attendance is speaking loudly to a feeling of “I don’t care” going around. I have no idea how to solve this.

I think another issue is it seems like the majority of the regulars here are no longer attending games. Again, if I am a casual fan stopping by “Good for you that you went to every game when you were a student. How about now?” and I wouldn’t care what the excuse for not going now is just like you guys don’t buy the majority of the current excuses by students. Although not intentional and I know it is false but I just get this vibe that the regulars portray themselves as bigger UCLA fans and their words carry more value so they are putting down anyone else. As a result, generally only people who were already passionate about the program will respond with maybe a handful of newcomers that catch on while the majority will again just pass it off as “Whatever. I don’t care.”

I understand and more than appreciate the countless hours being spent going into writing posts and keeping the most updated content and material coming but I think you’re only catering to the people that are already passionate and care about UCLA sports. I went to all but 5 home football and basketball game for 5 years as a student from 04-09 and have gone to all of them since graduating so I’d like to think of myself as a diehard fan who does care and while I haven’t really gotten involved in any analysis or discussion, I am reading everything when I can. It is really the only place I read about UCLA athletics as it is what I believe to be by far the best Bruin site out there.

I mean no disrespect and can offer no solutions as I am merely just making an observation trying to put myself in the position of a neutral student. And again sorry for the negativity but if I was a casual fan I feel like with the current state of UCLA sports over basically the past decade, the negatives are being focused on and remembered more.

Go ahead and delete this post if it needs to be.

Go Bruins!

This has been a long time coming, but I think this is the appropriate time for me to say this.

I have lurked here for a long time (although not on a consistent basis). The reason why I have merely lurked, and not weighed in with my own take, is that I’ve often seen dissenting opinions shot down, and I believe this presents a highly unwelcoming environment. The amount of groupthink has frankly been somewhat intimidating. If you supported Karl Dorrell, thought Jrue Holiday wasn’t a team cancer, and didn’t think Ben Olson deserved his SouthPaw Jesus moniker prior to ever proving a modicum of success, the opinions of some (not all) were that you shouldn’t be taken seriously. I have seen the way Holiday supporters were treated, seen the berating of Daily Bruin and Dorrell, etc. It has kept me from weighing in with my takes.

People are going to disagree, but I believe these opinions ideally should be met with an open mind. For example, I happen to be a large proponent of Jrue Holiday. I realize he was a disappointment, and this by no means diminishes from Bruins who have undoubtedly made more significant contributions, like Darren Collison, Alfred Aboya, and Lorenzo Mata-Real, but I happen to think that Jrue Holiday was a solid team player, a good defender, and will be successful in the NBA. He is the best passer I have seen at UCLA during my 04-10 tenure here. I could very well be wrong, but that’s my take. I think he should’ve stayed in college, but if I were in his shoes, I very well might have left for the NBA as well. I saw a post here recently stating that Malcolm Lee should just leave, and that we don’t want or need him here at UCLA. That (to borrow an expression from Peter Griffin) really “grinds my gears,” but while I heavily disagree with that sentiment, I am willing to accept it as the opinion of some. I don’t think it’s the correct assessment, by any means, as Malcolm by all accounts has been the most successful of the 2008 class, but who am I to say who is right and wrong.

Opinions can also change. At one point, I was a staunch Karl Dorrell supporter (sue me). I still contend that I will never root for the Bruins to lose games, and that is what absolutely sickened me about the Dump Dorrell campaign. I would much rather he succeed and overcome, than root for him to fail and be replaced. That said, I understand that people have their limitations — Karl Dorrell as a highly successful coach was just never meant to be, and Rick Neuheisel gives us a better chance to reach our program’s potential. I fully believe Neuheisel is the right man for the job. I reached that point after you guys did, but ultimately I came to the same conclusion. At the same time, I first started reading this web site when Ben Olson was anointed as the savior, and from many firsthand accounts, Pat Cowan never got the credit I felt he deserved. Perhaps some will have changed their opinion and agree with me now.

The reason why I am posting this take now, and not a year ago, two years ago, or three years ago, is that I am starting to see the mindset of the “establishment” changing. The respected (well-deserved, I might add — you guys really pour heart and soul into Blue and Gold) moderators are willing to take student and newer posters into consideration, and I think this promotes positive discussion. It does us no good to call each other names or dismiss each other’s opinions. When I see that happening, I take my readership elsewhere for a month or two — which is not good or bad, it’s just how it is.

As for the issue at hand, I would prefer to let the students be. I don’t really see myself as a student anymore (mostly because graduate school just isn’t as much fun). I had some unbelievably memorable experiences during my tenure, conceivably driving 9,000 miles to watch Bruin games and attending three Final Fours. I wouldn’t trade my experience for anyone’s. But neither would the fan who attended UCLA when Wooden was here, and we never lost a basketball game. The freshman who just entered UCLA to watch us struggle to a 9-10 start? He will have his own experiences — heartbreak and joy, and he will make his own memories, not the ones that the alumni attempt to force upon him.

Would I have rushed the court? Probably not. But that doesn’t mean it was wrong. My context was different from those of the current students — times have changed. I would like to think beating UW at home isn’t even close to a good reason to storm the court, but for long-suffering fans watching an improbable buzzer-beater from a walk-on, then hey, maybe it makes some sense.

I respect tradition. I love tradition. UCLA’s tradition is unsurpassed (at least on the hardwood). It’s very important for us to cherish this tradition and treat it with its proper respect. But things change, times change, and in my opinion, to diminish the actions and thoughts of the current students stunts progression and evolution. Just because we have great memories from our times doesn’t mean we have to stifle the passion of current students whose actions and times don’t measure up to ours.

Everyone here is a Bruin fan, and that is the most important aspect of this web site. The more constructive discussion (both in agreement and in contention), the more likely I am to desire to contribute to this blog.

And what I like to hear. As long as the criticism is of the ideas of the contributor, and substantiated with its own advice, then I’ve got no beef here.