UNC? UCLA? Florida? What's happened to the hoops dynasties?
by Achilles on Jan 26, 2010 10:34 AM PST
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PrintSI's Stewart Mandel asks what happened to all the hoop dynasties and takes readers though a discussion that includes Florida's back-to-back-titles to back-to-back NITs and our own crash this season.
Ben Howland's Bruins have also been victimized by a string of one-and-dones. While their 2006-'08 run revolved around several key veterans (Aaron Afflalo, Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, and Luc Richard Mbah a Moute all played at least three seasons), two stars from that last team, center Kevin Love and guard Russell Westbrook, bolted after their only seasons as starters, as did last year's star freshman, Jrue Holiday. This year, the bottom finally fell out.
"It has definitely been a challenge when you are starting over again," Howland said.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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I saw this too
Didn’t seem to have a lot of substance though. Seemed like more of a rehashing of people leaving for the draft.
Go Bruins!
Even if it doesn't have substance
It keeps the issue in the front of people’s minds, and I think that’s enough. As long as there is some media coverage of the fact that this is hurting college programs, it gives the NCAA ammunition to lobby with when the next NBA collective bargaining agreement comes due.
Perhaps. But this is an issue for NCAA programs
caused by an NBA rule. The union might renegotiate that rule. But I have a hard time imagining that the NBA would take into account what this causes for NCAA programs. And the “big guys” hurting because of one-and-dones means other teams get a shot. Not everybody is complaining, just the types of high-profile programs that get that caliber of player.
Incidentally, I’m not sure about why I originally posted what I did. I guess it’s how spoiled I am – if I wrote that up and posted a similar article a week ago as a fanpost, I highly doubt such a substanceless article would get frontpaged here. And there it is, headlined on SI.com. Go figure. Go blogs I guess.
Go Bruins!
one and done must be done away with
We need it to be like some of the other sports that allow you to either go pro out of high school OR stay three years.
I agree ...
The problem is that the one and done rule is an NBA rule, not an NCAA rule.
The NCAA can’t change the rule.
All they can do is react to the NBA’s rule and come up with something to counter it. One thing the NCAA could do is terminate the eligibility of any player who declares for the draft. No “putting your name in” just to see where you stand. There might be less players willing to test the water if they knew that it wasn’t a test, it was “declare and you’re gone, no matter what.”
I still like every scholarship being for four years
If a kid leaves early, then that school has one less scholarship. I suppose some teams would go for the one and dones anyway, but maybe not. And when you think about it, there are something like 200 D-1 schools, and how many one and dones a year – 10? I don’t think it’s that big a penalty to make a school leave a scholarship spot for a blank seat on the bench. Let the one and dones play in a semi-pro league or something like that. Or get rid of the stupid NBA rule.
I’m waiting for this test. A high school kid can kick field goals from 75 yards and is perfect every time. He wants to go pro at age 16. I think that would be a good case. A test of lots of NFL rules (aka barriers to entry.)
I would allow folks to get drafted after high school
but if they don’t go the nba out of high school, have a two year rule for college.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Jan 27, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Another thing about the end of dynasties
It seems to me that four or five decades ago, there were only 30 or 40 really, really good players to be spread around all the D-1 schools. Now, there are hundreds. The geezers will remember Pistol Pete Maravich coming to the Sports Arena to play the Bruins. People were in awe at his ability to dribble the ball between…. his …. LEGS! No one had ever done that before.
Now, kids in junior high do that routinely. Instead of 30 or 40 really, really good players, there are hundreds and hundreds. Every team in D-1 has really, really good players.
I think the nfl calls it “parity.”
The hundreds of good players...
What do you think is the root cause of that? Is it the increasing popularity of basketball as a sport? The gaining emphasis on sports in society?
I’ve pondered the same thing, as we crown individuals as “instant legends” amongst the pantheon of historical greats, and sometimes wonder if we’ve lost perspective or we (as a society) are actually correct to do so. Perhaps we are seeing the best that have ever played, at some level?
Go Bruins!
Follow the $$$
Same reason there are tons of good soccer players in Europe. That’s where the big bucks are at.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
+1 (bingo)
The reason behind any of these kinds of questions is $. It is always $.
I actually can’t fault the NBA for implementing the one-year rule (though I wish they had initially done a 3-year rule instead). Face it. NBA organizations are entertainment businesses, pure and simple. They shell out millions of dollars to draftees, which can be a very risky proposition. It makes sense that they’d want to be able to view these prospects against tougher competition (i.e. college or european pros) for a year before they have to pay them. If I were in their shoes, i’d probably do the same, opting to get a more sure-thing 19-year-old superstar instead of a possible 18-year-old superstar. Follow the $$$.
Personally, I wish it was a three year rule (or even with the option of choosing to go straight from high school as some people above have suggested). The current system makes a mockery of the ‘student-athlete’, but $ matters far more to NBA team owners than educations do. They don’t mind if the kid’s an idiot (take a look at D Rose).
I think the idea of the NCAA retaliating with its own rules is interesting and more feasible. Punishing teams by taking away a schoalrship (as mentioned above) may or may not work since many schools will probably still take the risk. I like the other idea more of not allowing a kid to ‘test the waters’. Make the kids think twice and decide whether an education is important or not. Then again, this may lead to far more rule-breaking and shady NBA scout evaluations ocurring. Who knows.
It’s hard to imagining this one-and-done problem going away any time soon. The article was well written, though.
I have heard that it's the potential for more money sooner
More kids are going for basketball rather than any of the other major sports because of the potential to make huge money at a much younger age. A baseball player who whizzes through the minors doesn’t get called up to the big leagues until age 23 or 24. Kids who excel at basketball are five year veterans by then. Kids who were great in football have had their second ACL destroyed by then.
I don't come from a family where sports were very important...
… so I don’t know the drivers of this. But these kids start sports at a fairly young age. Maybe I’m out of touch, but I have a hard time believing that a 10 year old (which would be late, in many cases) would start developing/continuing an interest in any of these sports would be driven by the money.
I feel like it has to be something else driving it, but I don’t know what. $ is certainly part of the equation, no doubt. But baseball seems to have plenty of it still, and from my peabrain recollection, still significantly higher than basketball or football at the formative years of the athletes my age or older (who still make up a large chunk of both the NFL and, to a limited extent now, the NBA). (I’m 29, for the sake of reference.)
I guess my re-question is simply – does a young adolescent pick a sport because they want to be rich?
Go Bruins!
So many basketball stars are kids from poor, black families
I may be reading way to much into this, because I’m not a kid from a black family in the ghetto, but it seems to me that they see basketball as their way up the economic ladder, just as I did with law school. And a kid can develop his basketball skills on his own, whereas in football and baseball you pretty much have to have someone else to play/practice with.
I’m willing to bet that this phenomenon has been examined quite a few times, and some people who actually know what they’re talking about have examined it.
recruit more 3 star players
it’s time for CBH to start developing his talent and stay away from the one & dones…
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's"
John Wooden.....
doesn't make sense
I don’t think CBH or UCLA for that matter should ever deviate from recruiting the best worthy talent available each and every year if we want to maintain our standard expectations.
I think your emphasis on “3-star” players is misplaced. I don’t think our coaching staff scans Rivals or Scout for potential recruits based on their star-rating. Prospects are on coaching staffs radars long before they’re old enough to earn a star-rating. In fact, the relationship works the other way around. When CBH, Roy Williams, Bill Self, or Coach K show up at 15U AAU game to watch a kid ball, he’s going to earn more stars. Who is recruiting who plays a significant role in the recruiting service ratings. This is probably how JA got so overrated. He committed to us early in his junior year if I’m not mistaken, and then received a lot of attention as a “UCLA-commit” for two years in high school. The way recruiting is nowadays, having to start the process earlier than reasonable to accurately evaluate a prospect. Look at Kendall Williams who committed to us when he was in the 10th grade only to hit a developmental plateau. The game dictates that college coaches have to stick their necks out because if they don’t, someone else will.
I see CBH’s recruiting strategy to be more regional based than anything else. He starts recruiting California talent early because it’s easier to do and is fertile with talent. When a specific need arises, he’ll expand his zone — Josh Smith from WA for a big man, he went hard after Abdul Gaddy after DC and JH left. And in the case of KL, he’s a no-brainer. Another no-brainer was JH. He gets a lot of flak here, and even CBH undeservedly gets flak for recruiting him at all. CBH would be derelict in his duty if he didn’t recruit a player of JH’s caliber in his own backyard.
CBH has focused on keeping California talent in state: Jordan Farmer, Arron Afflalo, Lorenzo Mata-Real, Josh Shipp, Darren Collison, Michael Roll, James Keefe, Russell Westbrook, Chace Stanback, Jerime Anderson, Malcolm Lee, Jrue Holiday, Drew Gordon, Tyler Honeycutt, Reeves Nelson, Brendan Lane, Anthony Stover, and Tyler Lamb.
agreeing with IshXdavid,
You can’t stay away from one and dones. If you want to remain competitive you have to go after the best players there are, and take the risk that they will be gone in a year. We would have been fools to turn away from KLove, knowing all along he was a one and done.
You may feel disappointed with the way things worked out with JH, but I see that as an aberration. Most one and doners leave after one year because they have breakout seasons. JH presumably left because he didn’t want to work hard, and maybe figured if he was going to work at his game he might as well get payed to do it.
Think of the guys like Kobe, Lebron, and Garnett who skipped college ball altogether. If they had been forced to pick a school under the current NBA rule, there is no way you could turn away that kind of talent. The problem lies within trying to recreate the Carmelo Anthony situation and getting a Jrue Holiday instead. Some times you just have to roll the dice on a guy.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
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