Ben Howland’s Pointless Season: Post-Oregon Thoughts
by Nestor on Jan 29, 2010 6:13 AM PST
in Basketball
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PrintSo, we are one game away from exactly the halfway point of the Pac-10 season and at this point it's unclear whether we will even finish with a .500 record within the conference. Looking at last night's game, it was in some way a replay of the terrible season tone setting loss against Cal State Fullerton. Do you guys remember that debacle? With a short 8 man rotation, we took 29 3 point shots, stunk it up from the FT line and missed clutch FTs with game on the line to choke the game away. Here was that boxscore. Well, last night's game perhaps wasn't the total humiliation (like earlier stinkers v. Southern Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Portland, Long Beach State and Fullerton), but it was essentially more of the same. We are basically where we started in this pointless season.
The easy way out right now of course is to aim fire at the Rainbow Warrior from Belgrade, who after all the "talk" (from Ben Howland) about "creating" his own shots, went back to his old form putting up 13 shots from the 3 point line. In all honesty, I couldn't get upset at his attempt to drive to the rim with 10 seconds left in the game (we still had 10 seconds left and if he had connected on those attempts, it'd be a 1 point game with enough time left on the clock). I wasn't upset at the misses which were essentially wide open shots. I guess what really upsets me about the Ragovic phenomenon, is that his style of basketball is repulsive to anyone who have come to appreciate the fundamental tenets of Ben Ball over the years: smarts, rebounding (not letting opponents dominate under the rim), hustle, and of course defense. It is stunning to me how someone like Rago just keeps getting mins without ever having to be accountable for not making much of an effort on defense.
However, the problem with all those 3 point shot attempts was not due to Rago's "natural" instincts. The problem with this team is much more severe. It goes to the very top. It is really all on Ben Howland, who has not done a very good job of roster management over the years, saddling us with a basketball team without any credible point guard. We have a team which doesn't have a confident playmaker in the backcourt, and is taking its cue from the head-coach, who apparently has no problem sacrificing his principles of good defense and fundamentals in favor of possibility of getting on a roll from the 3 point line.
The basic problem with this team is that Malcolm Lee is a mediocre 2 guard (with a low basketball IQ), Jerime Anderson looks like a pg who should be at a mid-major (guess we can't really use that term this year since we are in the Pac-10 after all), and Mustafa Abdul-Hamid is a walkon. That's it. That's all we have. What we saw yesterday from Malcolm, a "point-guard" who is unsure, tentative at the top of the key, is not any different from what we have seen from Jerime most of the season.
Time after time our team on the offense looked like they were playing 4 on 5 (actually 3 on 5 when Keefe was in the mix). Lee can't shoot, he doesn't when to drive, and it doesn't look like as if his coaches have any idea of how to get him to jump start the offense. So we basically pass around the ball aimless without any purpose and then jack up the 3s. Hey, we did get a decent effort from Mustafa last night and in fact he probably made the most inspired play in the second half to jump start the team in that classic "Ben Ball" fashion: diving on the floor to get the ball and initiate a break. What was his reward? Sitting on the bench for rest of the game of course. I am sure Howland will do his mea culpa sometime this weekend over it. I mean if Mustafa is going to sit on the bench after plays like that, what's the "point" of hustling for Ben Howland?
I guess passing around aimless at the perimeter shouldn't be a big revelation for us at this point. Over the years we have seen that from DC and JF, except they were natural leaders/point guards who had the confidence to either drive inside or bail us out with their shooting touch time after time. We just don't have the luxury right now and we better hope Zeke Jones next year will provide a modicum of relief, because again not feeling so hot about Howland and his current staff to land an elite pg this spring, given the results from this current season.
Going back to Ragovic's miss FTs, I find kind of sad and telling that in over time, it was our seniors who missed the front end of clutch FTs, while it was their underclassmen - freshman and sophomore - carrying them with big buckets. Guess, can't really get upset with Roll. He is what he is. He gave us that clutch game tying shot at the end of the regulation. Yet towards the end of the first half with Bruins up by 12 (28-16), Roll and Drago kept putting up bricks, and committed costly TO to essentially let the game slip out of Bruin's control.
It's a good thing that Howland gave some valuable mins when the Bruins built that lead in first half to freshmen such as Lane and Moser to keep his starters fresh. Hey, oh wait. Sorry. They can't get the minutes because they are incapable of matching the brilliance of our upperclassmen superstars. Ya know. They'd find a way to eff it up. Can't count on them to run our breathtaking Drag and Roll (rainbow) offense.
As we have said number of times, we just don't have any credible senior leadership. The natural ones on this team - Tyler Honeycutt and Reeves Nelson - are not mature enough yet both physically and emotionally to take over completely (makes us appreciate the leadership of AA from his very first year even more).
I wonder if there are people delusional enough to think we will still go to the NCAA (I am guessing there were few after last week). As I suspected all along last week's win over two bad Washington teams didn't tell us much. Without a point guard for every two steps we take forward we will take move back. Also, given that Howland looks to be completely ignoring his bench at this point (not even bothering with mins from Brendan Lane and Mike Moser), this team is going to get worn out fast. Wait, they looked all worn out last night.
The problem right now is that not only has this season has the potential to become a waste (without using it to develop other younger talents in this team), the program might just be stuck in neutral if there is no upgrade at the point guard position next year. It will be pointless exercise all over again and the responsibility will fall on Ben Howland.
It's cool though. We probably will lose on Saturday and then come back to pull off an "upset" win next week at home and then together we can all rush the court.
GO BRUINS.
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I'm guilty of liking 3 point shots on occasion
but yesterday was ridiculous. I was yelling at the tv for malcolm lee or whoever to drive late in the game. It seemed like the lane was wide open after they readjusted for our 3-point barrage. Lee and no one else tested the zone by trying to get to the hoop.
I don’t think the loss was on par with earlier in the season or zona or usc, we’ve improved with the zone and with Honeycutt playing really well but we lost to a poor Oregon team.
Also, you’re right they played about 10-11 men, we played 7. We were definitely tired at the end and couldn’t rotate on D. Lane should play a little I think. Moser while pathetic on the offense hasn’t gotten a chance to show his defensive potential since we’ve switched to zone. Maybe Howland can put him in and tell him not to shoot anything but layups or dunks?
Moser's offense
isn’t any worse than Lee’s at this point. Lee showed some flashes of being able to create off the dribble earlier this season…and now acts likes the ball is a hot potato. He’ll pass it right after getting it if he must, but he shows no interest in doing something as minor as, say, scoring points. I’m not saying we should bench Lee, but there’s no reason Moser shouldn’t be getting at least 10-15 minutes somewhere.
10-15 mins ... nah
I’d even take 5-7 decent mins from him where he can come in and get us some energy on defense. Sheesh. Is that too much to ask for?
Whose time would you reduce to get MM minutes?
He can’t spell ML. Would your have reduced MR’s minutes?
ND... JK...
or using him when RN needs a break. I think ML needs all the time at the point his conditioning can allow to help him figure it out. I am in no way suggesting cutting RN’s minutes, but he’s not playing 40 minutes a game. MM is 6’8", so he doesn’t need to replace a guard. All JK contributes on the offensive end is fouls (17 games, 49 boards, 34 fouls, and 36 points on the season), and we all know while ND has his streaky moments, he’s often not worthy of being on a D-1 court. There’s no reason MM can’t take some minutes from them.
I think lee is way ahead of moser
he had an off night. I was ok earlier in the game that he was being patient and playing more like a point guard. He lost confidence somewhere though, and didn’t take advantage of what the defense was giving him. He really shouldn’t be scared of tajuan porter’s defense.
yeah, off night for Lee
He didn’t show up to play last night. I wouldn’t characterize it as anything but an off night considering his performance over the rest of the season.
by gradstudentbruin on Jan 29, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
wow
Moser looks like he can’t even dribble the ball when he’s out there… I don’t think he is on Lee’s level at all right now. However, Moser’s body definitely has a high ceiling.
UCLA '08
by BruinTrouble on Jan 29, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Have you seen Moser shoot?
Because I don’t think you have.
His offense is incredibly raw (incredible for a big-time recruit). Also, he wouldn’t be spelling ML, because he can’t play guard.
Hard to see it
if he’s not on the floor.
I referenced Lee in response to the point made in the comment I was replying to regarding Lee not showing offense. I clearly said in my follow-up post below my first suggestion of getting MM in (7:21 AM PST) that I was suggesting MM’s minutes come from those currently given to ND, JK, or during RN’s breaks.
The comment I replied to said Lee wasn’t showing any offense. My point was simply that we’re currently getting the same offensive production from Lee on the court as MM on the bench. I fully agree MM’s shot is probably in need of work. It hasn’t had much of a chance to improve in the 1.39% of the season he’s been on the court (57 of our 4100 minutes played so far). His offense will likely improve given more time on the court, while JK’s is not likely to, and ND’s may or may not show up but still wouldn’t make up for his defensive liabilities.
For comparison, since I did suggest some of MM’s minutes coming from JK: JK has played 217 more minutes this year than MM – nearly 4.5 complete games worth of playing time – and has 27 more points. 27.
Easy to see a guy's shot in practice
And I’ve seen him on the floor. It’s poor logic to say you’re getting the same production from Lee than from MM, or George Bush, or Eliot Spitzer, when he scores zero points. He scored 29 against Notre Dame; Moser hasn’t scored 29 in warmups all year. It’s just a pointless comparison, especially since they don’t play the same position.
Practices are closed
when did you see him in practice?
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Jan 29, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Howland
Coach Howland sees him in practice everyday.
by lil eg not cs on Jan 29, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
Get out of here
with that logic stuff.
UCLA '08
by BruinTrouble on Jan 29, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Blind loyalty to the head coach
If you are looking for that you might have to “get out of here” soon.
Howland has been "seeing’ practices “everyday” yet it took 15 games and number of humiliating losses to conclude the obvious … we needed to play zone. That “logic stuff” went right over Howland earlier in the season.
well in this case we have seen some minutes
of Moser. He looked pretty unskilled offensively. Almost as bad as the guy’s in my home game…. But like i said, he definitely has a bright future with his great basketball body (assuming our asst coaches and train these skills, because apparently the AAU circuit fails miserably at that).
UCLA '08
by BruinTrouble on Jan 29, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
If players were given mins just for their "offense"
LMR and PAA would have never been allowed to emerge as contributors to this program till their senior years. The length people go to justify not giving mins to Lane and Moser earlier this season for the purposes of “offense” just shows how the Year of Ragovic, has so f*cked up thr warped world of “Ben Ball.”
+1 UCLA bball under howland was always about defense jump starting our offense
seriously i could care less who can shoot or play offense at this point, when we are bleeding mad on the defensive end…. i’ll take moser’s hustle on D any day over drago’s rainbows.. it just pains me to see teams running their offense through drago’s side every single time and it is always a positive play when it runs through his side EVERY SINGLE TIME
But dont forget
we had several great offensive players on those teams. Therefore, we had the luxury of having defensive specialists who couldnt score. And btw, Aboya was good at setting screens etc which did help the offense. We don’t have a farmar or collison or westbrook to bail us out when our offensive possession is going stale. Our lack of offensive talent means we need a more well balanced attack than in years past. That’s my opinion on it, at least. I mean, since we started using the zone, the defensive has not been atrocious.
UCLA '08
by BruinTrouble on Jan 29, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
I've seen every minute he played early in the year and in warmups every home game
My point is that shooting form is not something you need to see in a game. It doesn’t suddenly change.
Poster I responded to
spoke of his/her frustration with ML’s play and of his/her frustration with MM’s lack of playing time. Again, I’ve not once said they’re interchangeable or that MM’s minutes should come at the expense of ML, just touching on the playing time/productiveness of the players realfabfive referred to.
A Decent Effort
There can be no argument that we have no division I point guard. ML, a natural 2, may be held back in his development by playing the wrong position. On the other hand, he may improve his ball handling skills, like RW did, by being forced to play the 1.
It was ironic that early in the second half, he was stripped when trying his patented slow cross-over dribble, and the announcers kept talking about something else, not even realizing there was a turnover followed by a foul. I would like to see him fake left and speed dribble right to be pressure, using ability to run to break pressure, rather than ball handling. Maybe the defensive point guards are just faster.
CBH definitely erred in thinking the JA was the next in line after JF and DC to run the point. He’s just too slow and with injuries, even slower.
ML was 1-9 from the field, although a couple of the misses were desperation shots when he was passed the ball with no time left on the clock.
The 12 point lead melted because 1) basketball is a game of surges, and 2) Oregon applied some pressure and we became a bit flustered.
In the second half, pressure led to bad shots. RN’s drives against taller players who can jump better resulted in blocked shots and misses more often than scores. Still he was 4-9, but his stats were improved by two dunks.
MR lost his composure and took some horrible shots, and finally MR hit threes to get us back close. Missed freethrows kept us from getting a lead in the second half, and required miracle threes to tie the game. I expect perfection from MR, so his mistakes are magnified.
TH continues to shine. He was 5-12 with 10 rebounds, and 3 assists. He gets better every game and is going to be great before he leaves. Even TH was 0-3 from 3 pt land, so he’s not perfect.
MAH continues to show that the team does not lose anything when he comes in at the point. He is extremely careful not to turn the ball over. That being said, he missed a two open shots that we expect him to make. He was 1-3 with a three.
It is obvious that BL and MM are not ready, based on practice, or they would be getting playing time. MM can’t spell ML, because he can’t play the point. Do we really want MAH at point without MR in the game? MR is the team’s security blanket. He gets the other players out of trouble by cutting open when they are panicked.
Should MM take away some of TH"s playing time?
ND defense is frustrating, but it may be that he’s trying and he’s just too slow. ND’s box score, however, 7/17, 10 rebounds, was not terrible.
JK made 1 basket in 16 minutes and had one rebound. He does a good job in the middle of the zone defense, and I think CBH believes he gets the most out of JK by starting him, even though RN gets much more playing time. JK doesn’t even look to drive or shoot. He must be terrible in practice also, because his teammates don’t even look to get him the ball.
It seems like we rebounded well in the first half, but were dominated in the second half and in overtime on the boards.
If we shoot 70% at the freethrow line we win the game.
All of that being said, this team is playing ten times better than it did in the preseason, and the game was extremely entertaining. This team is not going to make the NCAA tournament, unless the entire Pac 10 implodes or we have a miracle in the conference tournament (and probably not even then.) So lets enjoy the improvement of the team, watch the budding stars (RN and TH) get better, and support out team and our coach.
I love being a Bruin every single day. Go Bruins.
I think it might make sense
for MM to give TH a little breather. People should not forget that Honeycutt suffered a stress fracture in his back (IIRC) and also hurt his shins. It makes sense to give him 5-7 min breather so that he can be more fresh while defending in zone and his rebounding efforts.
yup
TH is our energy and athleticism guy. Need to keep him fresh, particularly after an interrupted preseason.
by britishbruin on Jan 29, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, That's what I have been saying all year.
ML is def a 2 guard. I can see is improving. His ball skills have improved. He keeps trying to use the moves that worked in High school with slow cross over or fakes will still work on Div-1 basket ball players. Ucla Needs a true PG. No one on the team is stepping up. There is no true leader on Ucla, Maybe someone will develop in time. To win these tight games, they have to have somebody who can deal with the pressure. Dragvoic could not deal with the pressure of being the MAN. He had a chance last night with the free throws. I can’t believe he is a senior and still making fundamental mistakes like falling away from a free throw. That is lazy and not acceptable. ML looks like he still does not know what he is doing at times. MR is better, but not a leader. The only constant had been RN he is a baller. They need to help him with his foot work in the post. He will be dominant. Kind of like a mark madsen.
I like what i watched from the bruins, the energy, playing defense, learning to work together. Ucla will continue to grow. There will be growing pains, but a least they are growing together. Go Bruins.
I think we should call him AGOVIC...
… because I repeatedly saw Nikola getting beat for Rebounds in crunch time and OT.
Besides, the first part of “Agovic” sounds a lot like the “AAUUGGHHH!!!” sounds we associate with Charlie Brown losing yet another baseball game.
"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008
Lose another letter
because I don’t think he is all that proficient on “O” either; and it becomes AGVIC.
To summarize, No Defense, No Rebounding, No Offense.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
The season will be wasted if we don't set a realistic goal and go after it
Can we all agree that we’d rather take the risk of losing games in order to develop our young guys for a better shot at next year?
I say “take a risk of losing” deliberately because I am not sure we can be much worse by playing Lane, Moser and Bobo for some real minutes.
This season is gone. I’d prefer to use the rest of it to try things that we are not trying — new players and combinations, demanding that ML drive or take him out of the game, limiting our 3 point shots to force us to develop an inside game — even if it fails.
We are not very good. That’s the bottom line. We have two players who might get significant minutes on other teams, RN and TH, and that’s it.
So, let’s pick a goal we can achieve — not a .500 season which looks unrealistic and won’t feel all that fulfilling.
Let’s decide to develop our younger talent.
Our two best players are true freshmen. Nestor is right, we know nothing about Moser and little about Lane — although I don’t think he’s looked good it is fair to say it’s hard to look good in 1 minute stretches.
We either have to tell ML that he has to drive and dish, or he will sit — or we have to take him out and give away his minutes. I sometimes wonder if putting TH at point forward would work. We’d lose him underneath on the boards, but he is clearly the best passer on the team.
And, I’d play Bobo more. Right before he got hurt, he was improving. He may not be “the answer” but there isn’t one on this team. Playing him lets RN play in position and may allow us to use TH outside on the point.
There really are no good choices. We are simply not a good team. I will feel bad about cutting MR’s time. He gives us everything he has, game in and game out. Can’t ask for more.
But, it’s time to play for next year. (I thought it was time to play for next year weeks ago. But, I don’t seen how we can disagree much on this. We may actually turn out to be better.)
In our terrible conference — if we give the young guys significant minutes now, who knows, we may make a surprise run in the Pac 10 tournament.
sjh
The more I think about it
If Bobo comes back and is healthy, I like your idea of at least giving him some decent mins. See what the kid can do. I still think at least a .500 record is a realistic goal. We have enough talent on this roster to have that kind of record. The question is how will Howland manage and develop them?
Sadly
I’m not sure the question is “How will Howland manage and develop them?” but rather “Will Howland manage and develop them?”
Assist. Coaches
How much do you think the development of (or lack of development) our players is because of the help Howland has around him? We were great when Kerry Keating was here.
I second the motion!
I think all your suggestions are wise. I suggested TH as point-forward a while ago – can’t lose much. Even with the play-for-next-year approach, though, I still think MAH needs more minutes than he gets: he’s quite a steadying influence.
CBH is a winner
CBH is a winner. Say what you will about our crappy season, but even after all the losses, I believe he still wants to put us in the best position possible to get a W out of every game. It’s simply not in his mindset to play players that don’t give us the best chance to win. If the bench players don’t like not getting minutes, they can work hard in the offseason and prove themselves worthy of playing time in practice. I know there is the obvious Drago Paradox that people have been pointing out all year as a counter to that argument, but I think the heart of the matter is that the potential replacements really are that much worse.
I’m less convinced than you are that players like Lane, Moser, and Bobo are not much worse than what we have now. Sure, we as fans have not had much of a chance to see them play, but I’m certain they get chance after chance to prove themselves to the coaching staff in practice, and they clearly haven’t done so. And while their exposure to us as fans has been fleeting, none of these players have seemed near competitive playing level in their brief appearances to me, looking lost on defense and being trapped and stripped on offense even against our weakest OOC opponents.
I think the best policy is still to award PT based on performance. If the players see that and believe it, it’s going to motivate their development for next year better than having minutes awarded simply based on recruiting ratings or notions of potential.
by gradstudentbruin on Jan 29, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
Awarding PT based on performance
I am sure that’s the reason Mustafa had to sit on the bench after probably making the most spectacular hustle/defensive play in the second half.
Honecutt and Nelson are blossoming infront of our eyes because Howland finally decided to give those guys time in the rotation despite them making mistakes. I think we have very good reasons to wonder if Howland also gave freshmen such as Lane and Moser a little more room earlier in the season instead of not taking them out after their first mistakes.
What’s the worst that could have happened? Would have gotten blown out or gotten embarrassed by cupcake schools. Oh wait, never mind.
CBH is a “winner.” However, to date in his career he as proven himself as a great rebuilder. Is he a “winner” in terms of maintaining an elite program? The answer is unclear and we are going to know in next 2 seasons.
Point Guard
Just a quick rejoinder on this issue and this along: Howland I think has done a decent job with roster management — particularly in moving to ensure UCLA had a quality point guard in the system. His first major recruit was Farmar. He brought in Collison and Westbrook. He brought in Holiday and Anderson. Holiday and Anderson turned out to be who they are, but they were highly rated point guards coming out of high school. Howland flunked on them, but so did the entire college basketball scouting world. And we know how the first three PG’s worked out — quite well.
Howland deserves plenty of criticism for this season. But on this front, I think he’s done well. Additionally, I don’t think it’s an accident that he moved to bring in a JuCo transfer PG (the first of his tenure, I believe) to correct our current deficiency. I don’t think it’s an accident that he wanted someone (who supposedly is very talented) but also had the experience and maturity to play this key position right away.
I meant to say...
…“This issue and this ALONE.”
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 29, 2010 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Nope
Howland deserves criticism because his staff didn’t have contingency plan in place for Holiday’s departure after his first season. There was no one in Howland’s staff who seemed to have worked on signing a pointguard last spring when they knew Holiday was going to bail out of Westwood.
In previous years Kerry Keating worked relentlessly to establish a relationship with RW and had his confidence to have him wait till spring signing day to sign when JF took off. Howland’s staff could have recruited a pg like Donte Medder and have him ready to sign in Spring. They didn’t bother. It is on Howland that we are stuck in neutral without a poinguard. He has completely mismanaged his recruiting and it is on him. It will be on him to address his staff makeup and figure out how to bring someone like Keating on board again. It has been a disaster since he left.
i really think
I really think losing assistant coaches because of our success is a huge part of our downfall. Developing skill sets for players (which was shown by our quick player improvement with past Ben Ball Warriors) is often on the assistant coaches. Ben can teach the basic concepts, but he cant spend one on one time constantly with every single player. And to me all the little skills and smarts of past players arent there in the new young guys like Lee/Anderson.
UCLA '08
by BruinTrouble on Jan 29, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
but
How do we know they didn’t try that?
by lil eg not cs on Jan 29, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
Our current assistant staff
The word comes to mind to describe the crew (sans Donny Daniels) in terms of their intensity on recruiting trail … “Dorrellian”
Well
Maybe they haven’t had the success of Keating (which i get is kind of your point), but i don’t think it’s from a lack of trying. Who knows? Maybe they had a contingency plan and someone decided to sign elsewhere.
by lil eg not cs on Jan 29, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
wasn't JA/ML the contingency plan?
It seems to me that CBH’s fault is in his misevaluation of JA and/or ML as D-I point guards, not of lack of foresight about JH. It seems like we’re seeing the contingency plan… it’s just not a very good contingency plan.
by britishbruin on Jan 29, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
I don't quite agree...
…But your counter is solid and well thought out.
Just Remember With Drago
As Hubie Brown says of many players “he is just good enough to keep both teams in the game”
This is ucla
This team and season is a major unacceptable dissapointment. The only players who I have enjoyed watching and excited to see develop are TH and RN. They give me hope that with Smith and Jones and even Lamb our starting lineup will be the best in the PAC 10. However the MM and BL situation infuriates me why can’t these guys see the floor we are going to need major contrbutions from these guys next season. They really can’t play 1 minute against a bad PAC 10. If this is the case then it’s howland he keeps recruting guys who can’t shoot our catch up to the speed of the game. It’s ridiculous and that bust recruting class of last year will haunt us for years. We need to bring guys in who are athletic and have a decent offensive skill set. JA and ML the starting guards for UCLA can’t shoot don’t pass well and don’t create anything. A walk on has a better shot and feel for the game, and please anyone here who thinks ML is going pro is nuts. I know the NBA just drafts guys based on potential but cmon this kid had 2 points as the staring pg against a 5’7 kid on a terrible team. Im just rambling now but I was so frustrated yesterday because I thought if we had any hope this season we needed to win last night. A loss to Osu which is not out of the question would officialy put the nail in the coffin.
by uclamike on Jan 29, 2010 8:04 AM PST via mobile reply actions
my concern at this point
is that CBH may have decided that you are wrong when you say
we are going to need major contrbutions from these guys next season
If he doesn’t think they are going to be major contributors next season (at least off the bench), that would be depressing, but not inconsistent with his actions to this point.
by britishbruin on Jan 29, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
It kills me that we have to go to overtime against bottom dwelling Oregon.
It kills me that SC is playing the actual nitty gritty ben ball in town. Watching these games is going to give me an ulcer, and it kills me that I can’t tear my eyes away.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
Out hustled
When the other team gets second, third, and fourth chances, that means you need to step it up. Give OU credit for definitely wanting it more.
Can we have a poll to see who thinks we’ll finish .500?
by hongerelli on Jan 29, 2010 8:46 AM PST via mobile reply actions
We are one center and one PG away
from being a really good team, unfortunately. So let’s forget the blame game other than to remember the buck stops with CBH.
In the meantime, we should go with our young guys, especially Bobo when he’s healthy and Hamid who can shoot the three, hustles and is a Ben Ball Warrior IMO.
Lee seems completely out of his element, why I do not know, but he is. Anyone who thinks he is ready for the NBA is delusional. Maybe he will be much better … in a year, but not now.
re: Keefe on Offense
I was saying something similar to my roommate during the game. I love Keefe’s hustle, but he really is a complete non factor on offense so its 4 on 5. He’s played basketball his whole life and was not able to develop a 10 foot jumper? They don’t even bother guarding him.
UCLA '08
Last 50 Basketball topics.....
All sound like broken record, same issues every week. Need more football news stat!
I Wholeheartedly Concur
Nestor, no offense, but I feel like you are just beating the dead horse that is UCLA’s 2009-2010 Basketball season. I’m pretty sure we all knew coming into this season that we should take every win that our team can get and that our team wasn’t going to be as good as we had hoped, even after lowering our expectations. I don’t think you need to be so pessimistic about it.
As always
You are not paying me to spoonfeed your Bruin fix. Don’t read my posts if you don’t like it. If you want to read sweet nothings about UCLA hoops and have someone constantly pimp sunshine, find another place. We will not miss you here.
or look to the MSM
for people constantly pimping rainbows…
by britishbruin on Jan 29, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
While Nestor's pessimism
annoys me at times, as far as I know he’s running this site for a salary of precisely zero while working a ‘real’ job (other than possibly getting a cut of some of the ad revenue from SBN). His board, his rules. You’ve seen BN’s a popular place. Your positive articles would have a chance to be seen by many. Go for it!
We have never taken a single cut from the SBN revenues
All of it has been directed to UCLA related sources per our standing with SBN. None of us have taken a penny to date from blogging on BN. Not one. If we think about it some day, we will make it clear here on BN.
Tell you what Nestor
You don’t have to “spoonfeed” us positive thoughts, but stop deleting posts when people reveal how you are a tyrant on this board and prove how you try to make people look bad then delete evidence that proves you wrong.
by UCLAClass82 on Jan 30, 2010 4:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Our problem was rebounding + missing open shots
Oregon shot 42%. It’s not like we played lousy defense. That 42% included a couple 30-footers by Porter, and two threes at the end by that guy who played 50 total minutes all year. Dragovic was not horrible defending those, because you want that guy to take those shots (rather than drive by you or get fouled). If Malcom Lee took those shots, we’d consider them horrible shots and of course he’d miss them. Those two shots were the difference in the game alone.
As for us, well, against a zone of more athletic players you have to make your open shots. Yes we took some horrible shots because Lee created nothing, but a lot of those misses were wide, wide open, including the ones at the end of the first half that let Oregon back in. If Lee can’t penetrate, our only inside game is finding Nelson. We did that a bit, but when he fouled himself out of the first half it was back to threes.
I just don’t think this is a game that you can declare as a Dragovian symbol of our decay as a program. We did not lose for lack of effort, and quite frankly I don’t think Lane in that environment at this point in the season would’ve made a difference (Moser is completely out of the question in my view). We lost because of our rebounding ability and lack of offensive talent.
Depending on long bombs/jumpers
Well let’s see when you have a basketball team that essentially lives and dies by 3 point shooting (except for one game this season v. WSU when we didn’t have to depend on long bombs), it is not Ben Ball, it is RagoBall.
Our problem is with rebounding. It also comes from a mindset that is more dependent on making easy 3 point shots, then actually having to freaking work hard for victories.
We used to miss lot of open shots during AA days too. But we always had players who set the tone with defense, rebounding and basic fundamentals. Pierson over at BRO (who has always been more reserved) is even more harsher on Rago today than yours truly calling it essentially the Year Of Dragovic (it’s a brutal writeup)).
As for Lane, we will never know what he could do this season because Howland wasted him on the bench early in the season never getting him (and Moser) necessary game experience.. Come to think of Derrick Williams scored 26 points yesterday. If he came to UCLA, he would be wasting away behind Rago too because he probably wouldn’t have been good enough to understand Howland’s Drag and Roll offense this season.
I don't disagree about Lane
He’s looked terribly lost whenever he’s played, but of course I wish he was given more rope earlier so it might have made a difference. That doesn’t mean you throw him in there at Mac court at this point, or completely discount what Howland must be seeing in practice. He wasted no time giving big minutes to Nelson this year (Honeycutt was obvious once healthy). And remember, if we ever had a decent offensive threat at the 4 Drago would’ve never even started last year. But we had Keefe.
I see your point about a psychological reliance on easy 3s over hard work. But I really think that the difference between getting inside and jacking up too many shots lies with the point-guard. We do what we can with Honeycutt as a our only playmaker, and Roll as the only other decent passer. If you don’t have a point-guard you have to make some of those open threes to win at a place like Mac court.
Yeah
I think we are probably are not far apart on this. As for Lane, I think it would have helped just a little if we had used him for 5-7 mins when we went up by 14. Given what happened in last 4 mins of the first half, I don’t think he (or even Moser) could have played any worse.
One of the reason we were getting PWNed around the boards was we looked tired and lot of that had to do with Howland not using his bench. So I think it all fits together.
Usually Howland has played him those 3-5 first-half minutes to give somebody a breather
He was probably paranoid about blowing the lead with freshman turnovers (which he did a good job of avoiding), but we blew it anyway.
My basic stance on Drago: more of the symptom than the disease.
I know we've beaten this point
to within a shred of death, but I’m finding it hard to believe the good practice = playing time equation like I used to. ND must be practicing like the second coming of Walton and Kareem mixed together, with a dose of Jordan thrown in for good measure, to deserve the floor time he gets.
It's not
that he’s practicing like a saint. It’s that he’s practicing better than any of the other options
by lil eg not cs on Jan 29, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
Yes our problem is rebounding.. but I give some credit last night to Ernie Kent
He essentially sent 4 guys to the glass every offensive shot, knowing that we would not push the ball back up the court. Little risk for him but alot of upside with offensive rebounds. Heck if I were the coach I would do the same. Tell the kids, to hit the offensive glass hard because all UCLA is going to do is cradle the defensive rebound, if they get it, and slow down the pace.
On the other side of the court we send two guys to the offensive glass. You would think with the 3 point clankers there would be alot of long offensive rebounds but with 3 guys retreating to half court even those went to the Ducks. The point of guys being tired is probably also true but it is hard to believe at this point in the season, at this level of play and at that pace of a game that anyone would be too winded.
Also credit to Kent with the 3/4 court pressure. It consumed alot of shot clock which constricted our already complacent listless offense in the second half. It created the excuse of lack of time to account for the hoisting up of alot of low percentage shots, not taking advantage of a clear size advantage for us.
I will defend ML in this game a little. I thought he played a nice defensive game on top of the zone. His quickness allowed him to move laterally shutting down his side of the zone. Most of their hits outside were on Roll’s side or you know who’s corner. With that said ML’s struggle on top of the key as the 1 is mind boggling.
on ML last night
I think the comparison to RW’s start against WVU in his sophomore season (when DC was hurt) isn’t completely off the mark. Tried hard defensively, couldn’t work out how to attack the zone offensively as our only penetrator.
by britishbruin on Jan 29, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Perhaps
However, that was RW’s first start at pointguard for the Bruins and it came out of nowhere due to DC’s injury. Lee has been starting the entire season. He has had already few as pg under his belt including 2 starts on the road as a pg. IIRC at that point RW wasn’t even a starter averaging barely 10 mins per game in his first season.
And to boot, IIRC, and I probably don't, RW was up against Texas
Or some highly ranked team. Not the likes of Oregon for sure. ML has seen enough action at the 1 this season, even before JA was hurt, that he should be more versed at the position.
by 84 on Jan 29, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
all good points
and I’d forgotten it was his frosh season; I thought it was his soph.
The only reason I make the comparison is that in both games, it looked like we didn’t look like we knew what to do schematically to make the team work, and the point guard didn’t get much help from other players in terms of people moving into space and pulling the zone around. I blame ML as much as anyone else, but we don’t attack the zone well as a team at all.
But as you guys point out, the comparison breaks down in several ways.
by britishbruin on Jan 29, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
ML definitely looked befuddled against that zone
That was surprising to me and has me scratching my head same was as yours. IIRC didn’t ASU throw a zone against us at Pauley?
Hard to defend 1-9 from the field.
I’ll make it 1-7, because 2 shots were prayer’s at the buzzer just after he received a pass.
In defense of Dragovich (kinda)
I am not a supporter of Dragovich; I don’t like his very limited game, his lack of hustle and his lack of any foot speed makes him an absolute liability on defense (he gets significant rebounds because he has been beat on defense). He is a fine role player and nothing more.
However, why should we blame him for not being a Ben Ball warrior? He is who he is. Why should we blame him for making poor decisions on the court? His coach doesn’t discipline him for those mistakes. and that’s all he knows (and probably is capable of). Why should we blame him for playing too many minutes? He can’t refuse to enter the game or quit the team.
I think all of the criticism should be directed at CBH for putting this role player in this situation. Unfortunately, this may be the Year of the Dragovich, but it isn’t the young guy’s fault, the fault lies entirely on his coach.
This one is easy
“Why should we blame him for making poor decisions on the court?”
He is getting paid to be a basketball player at UCLA. Sure the pay is a free education but that has value. His job in return is to be a high quality player. If he lacks at that, he gets blamed as any player should. Poor decisions require accountability. Yeah CBH shares that responsibility but if Rago isn’t working as hard as he should to improve than something is wrong there as well.
Why work hard
if you still get a scholarship and the same amount of playing time regardless of effort? The point above was if there are no consequences to perform poorly or with little effort, than what you should expect is a roster of people who perform poorly with little effort like Drago.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Jan 29, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
I get it. And I agree with the concept..
but one would think that the player would have enough intelligence to realize that his level of performance is lacking. Therefore he should take it upon his self to work harder and show a little pride. To say we shouldn’t blame somebody for their poor decisions or play because there is no punishment from the coach is just an excuse. “Discipline yourself so others don’t have to”.
I agree its the right thing to do
but he is just fitting into the culture Ben Howland has enabled on this team.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Jan 29, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
This quote by 84 is exactly why I support INCREASING...
He is getting paid to be a basketball player at UCLA. Sure the pay is a free education but that has value.
… the pay for student athletes of revenue generating sports.
That’s another topic altogether.
But I couldn’t help but react to that same sentiment.
Can someone break down the zone adjustments a little more?
I’d be interested if someone could explain the permutations of the zone we saw last night.
In terms of how the game changed after we were up big, the following seemed to be true:
1. they didn’t give us so much space to hit open shots. The open shots ND missed in the early going were simple long cross court passes to an open man catching and shooting. They seemed to push their zone out on us more.
2. in pressing us more it was as though they were daring us to try to penetrate, but we obviously couldn’t.
3. their big man (Dunigan?) had a massive influence on the game. We apparently could never manage to get a body on him on the defensive glass. After he blocked a couple of shots, it was as though we were even more scared to penetrate, and also less interested in getting the ball inside, which led to a further over-reliance on long shooting.
4. it seemed to me that we needed to do a better job of attacking the soft part of the zone with interior passing. As they extended the zone out there must have been space, and if we can’t put the ball on the floor with any purpose then it seems like we need to be able to move off the ball and force the defense to adjust. Our ability to attack the zone moderately successfully in the last few weeks seems to be based on our ability to pass the ball in ways other than just around the key – in many ways, the last few weeks of us practicing zone on defense seemed to have improved our understanding of how to attack the zone; but last night was vintage Howland vs the zone, except without the bailout players.
Good observations
1) Our lack of quickness and a dribble penetrator allows them to extend the zone.
2) same for this one.
3) Our interior passing dried up in the second half because they pressured the passer more.
4) If you can’t dribble drive, defenders can get in your face, and affect the passing game.
Even so, we lost the game on the boards and the free throw line. You can’t shoot 55% from the line and win.
CBH is, as usual, right.
The Bruins are still in contention for the Pac-10 title, and as such, CBH will play the best players to give us a chance to win. We had a chance to win this game until 10 seconds left in overtime. MM and BL obviously are far inferior to the guys who are playing when the go up against one another in practice. The fact that RN and TH have earned massive minutes, over JK for example is proof of that. As frustrating as it is to bear a year that doesn’t meet our expectations, CBH is the consumate professional and knows, without question, more about his players and more about basketball than all the posters here, including me, COMBINED.
I love my coach. I love my team. Go Bruins!
What an absolutely horrid performance
15 minutes into the first half, this game looked like a cake walk for UCLA.
How does the complexion of a game change so suddenly? Do you mean to tell me that one simple adjustment by Ernie Kent threw this team for a loop? I am sorry, but how does Ben Howland get outcoached by Ernie Kent? That is pathetic. One adjustment, to the match-up zone, that’s it. Up by 13, and our guys jack up awful 3-pt shots? That’s grounds for benching. Even I know that in those situations you milk the clock and go inside at all costs, and I’m hardly knowledgeable on hoops. This is becoming more and more pronounced with each season, but it seems to me that Ben Howland is simply a terrible in-game coach. Preparation and practice is wonderful, but in-game strategy is just as important. There are more than a handful examples of CBH not adjusting to the opposing team (Memphis, Wazzu, last night are just a few that come to mind). I am highly disappointed in that regard.
On the other hand, it seems as though Michael Roll is the only one who put in any work last offseason. He handles the ball better than last year and seems quite fit considering the minutes he is getting. But no one else has made any progress. Malcolm Lee is still a string bean and I can’t find a single aspect of his game that is better than last year, even if he has played reasonably well this season. Let’s not even mention Ragovic, I have no clue what that guy did in the offseason (cue in techno beat). Keefe hasn’t improved squat. JA? He looks even worse than last year! He knew he would be the starting PG, yet looks like he’s never played that position before. I mean seriously, what the hell did they do all summer? This is so damn frustrating.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on Jan 29, 2010 2:51 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
IMHO...
What happened was the rearing of pervasive self-doubt, lack of confidence in self and teammates, and zero sincere belief in the team being greater than the sum of its components.
These young men, it appears to me, do not actually believe that they can—and should—build a lead and win decisively. They completely lost both enthusiasm and composure when they started “clicking,” and actually improving into the game. It was like a death knell.
I don’t believe that great practices and improvement in practices can cure this.
I don’t get it, and it worries the hell out of me.
Love My Bruins
Well, we lost a winnable game
simply because Oregon outshot us and outrebounded us by small but significant margins and killed us at the FT line, 15 points to 6. Drago wasn’t so bad, 7 for 17 (41%) and 10 rebounds, tied for high with Honeycutt. He ended with 19 points, after all. Roll shot 46%, but didn’t have a single rebound. Several players missed open shots at important times in the game. The explosion by Humphrey — 15 points in 21 minutes — was surprising, I think. As several have noted, Lee didn’t score much — 1 for 9, for 2 points. Watching the game, it seemed that Oregon was bringing more energy to the game with fullcourt pressure and a spirited transition offense. Our lack of a true big man at center was damaging, I think. Also, as will probably be the case from here on out, we faced an improved zone offense. League coaches are not stupid, after all. We, in turn, need to improve our penetration, since we seem to have none, except to pass to the baseline. Who can drive?
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