Ben Ball Gameday Roundup: Ill Communication In Howlandwood
by Nestor on Jan 6, 2010 7:00 AM PST
in Basketball
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Well by now everyone knows about Tyler Honeycutt starting tonight's game at Haas Pavilion.The move by Coach Ben Howland caught most of us by (pleasant) surprise and it gives us something to look forward to in what appears to be (at least to me) essentially a hopeless trip to Bay Area this basketball season. From basketball perspective the move should help us because Honeycutt brings more athleticism, defensive intensity and rebounding skills to the table, however, reading through the reports today, there seems to be another issue hovering around the background of this program. It's the issue of communication.
Right now I am not sure about the line of communication among Howland, his coaches and our players. In number of games I watched this season, it appeared that our players had completely tuned out Howland. They appeared to be the case against Arizona and I got the same sinking feeling watching the debacles against Mississippi State and against Portland and Long Beach State. I was wondering exactly the kind of communication Howland has his with his players on the team and now I am wondering it even more after reading the reports this am. Apparently UCLA players found out about the change in starting rotation via the Bruins beat writers (emphasis added throughout)
The news took Malcolm Lee by surprise, his mouth dropping open.
"For real?" he asked.
The UCLA sophomore, informed by reporters that he was shifting to point guard for tonight's game at California, needed a moment to recover.
"Wow," he said. "OK, let's get it going."
Coach Ben Howland announced changes to the Bruins' starting lineup -- apparently before telling players -- at a Tuesday afternoon news conference.
OC Register's Al Baldera reported that the news caught both Lee and Honeycutt "offguard":
Honeycutt and Lee were caught off-guard by the change, learning of it when the media asked them about it.
"This is all new to me," Lee said. "Are you all joking?"
When Lee was convinced that the news was true, he got more serious.
"OK, let's get it going," he said. "I'm comfortable with it. I like to have the ball in my hands. I'm ready.
"I'm going to look at it more like getting the team going because Jerime is not going to be on the court, at least to start the game."
Needless to say Anderson was stunned to hear about it after the news broke in the press conference:
As for his punishment, the sophomore heard about it moments before speaking with reporters and seemed taken aback.
"I've just got to take the consequences and move on, keep playing, I guess," he said, adding later: "I don't know . . . I really don't have any other comments about that situation right now."
I have to say this doesn't really make feel all that great about how Howland is interacting with his players. I don't believe it's a healthy move on his part to announce changes in his starting rotations before communicating directly to the players involved and explaining to them exactly why he was making such moves.
From what we have seen this season it certainly appears that the players often have just tuned out their head coach on the basketball court. I wonder how much of that has to do with the kind of communication that is taking place between Howland and his current group of players. It clearly seemed to be an issue during his interaction with Drew Gordon. For the first time we now have evidence of extremely poor communication between him and his players in public sphere which makes me wonder whether if this was an aberration or the norm in what goes on in the background. More after the jump.
For now Tyler Honecutt is going to try to make the best out of his opportunity:
"I have to keep working on footwork and try to stay low all the time, whether it's on-ball or off-ball," Honeycutt said. "I tend to, a lot of times (when) off the ball, to stand up. My last couple of games I've been working on that too. It's in the back of my head to stay low at all times."
TH's first starting assignment is going to be extremely difficult because he will be tasked with defending Cal's Theo Robertson. Robertson is slowly getting back in game shape after coming back from an injury. He is still going to be a formidable scoring threat tonight against the Bruins. Although, he hasn't had a huge scoring game following his return from the injury he is capable of exploding from the outside as he is currently shooting 47% from the three point line.
That leads to the question whether we will see any zone from the Bruins tonight. During last night's podcast discussion CBKWit from California Golden Blogs mentioned to Ryan and Patroclus how California did struggle a bit against teams showing zone during non conference season (pointing to losses against Syracuse and Ohio State). However, the caveat here is that those losses happened without Robertson in the lineup, who as mentioned above is a solid shooter from the outside and per Howland has "improved" this year in his "ability to drive."
I wonder if somehow Cal gets off to a cold start from the outside, UCLA will be throw in a little bit of zone to catch the Bears off-guard. FWIW, Howland after trying to justify not using zone against Arizona conceded that he should have used it more:
We're going to have to continue to use that zone - I should have used it more against Arizona. The main problem was we were so sped up offensively. Against a man-top-man defense, we took so many rushed, poor shots. Everybody was involved. With Nik and with Mike, they're all running at you because you're good shooters - you have to be able to fake."
Have to say these kinds of woulda-coulda-shoulda coachspeak is starting to get old real fast and kind of frustrating.
Anyway, I am not going to hold my breath over some kind of miraculous upset tonight. It is not going to happen. I am going to tune in though to watch whether our guys will play with credible effort and energy (not in spurts but for the entire 40 mins) and then tune in again on Saturday to see whether they can sustain that effort and translate into a victory against the Cardinal. If the Bruins continue to play listless, uninspiring basketball with no sense of urgency and passion, the issue of ill communication will become a bigger issue rest of this season.
GO BRUINS.
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Howland an island?
Surprised to learn that decisions directly affecting his players were not conveyed to the players first. That is not the way to endear players to you. There was a discussion somewhere about other coaches such as Roy Williams able to convince elite players to remain one more year and that Howland does not seem to have that ability . I’m just wondering if Howland is disconnected from his players to a large degree.
Shameful and foolish
Although it looks like CBH told JA about the demotion before telling the media, it really isn’t a good sign that he didn’t tell the rest of the team first. CBH isn’t a spur of the moment person, so I’m sure he came to that decision before talking to the media. This type of thing only leads to other players thinking in the back of their mind that they might be the next one to lose their spot without being told.
CBH’s defense of his lack of zone continues to sound foolish. As much as we bashed on DG after last season complaining about the offense after the defense gave up 80+ points to Villanova, CBH goes and does the same thing and blames his lack of zone on the team’s offense. What makes this more ridiculous is that if he was so worried about his team being sped up offensively, the best thing to do would be to let them settle down defensively and go to a zone. I’m really starting to get sick of these half hearted attempts at adjusting his system and then dishonest excuses afterward.
There has to be more to this
When I read the LAT report this am I immediately thought they were sensationalizing it but then it was corroborated in the OC Register. I am really hoping there is another explanation for this and that this is a one time thing. However, from management perspective if this kind of situation is the norm, it’s not a pretty picture and has the potential to lead to more toxic circumstances.
+1
Just poor management. Period. Communication is SO key to building any team. Be it in business or sports. If this comm breakdown is as it appears to be, we may have bigger problems than we think.
This is disturbing.
Phil Jackson
This method has been used in the past with success. Howland is probably using the media as a tool to wake up his players. If he’s doing this, probably b/c other alternatives have already been tried w/o any results.
In the end, everyone expects results, rocking the boat is not always a bad thing. Lets see if this becomes a turning point for our season.
Depending on
the reporter’s definition of “moments before,” I’m not even sure JA heard about it from CBH. “Moments before” could mean that JA heard from reporters and then made his comments 45 seconds later.
I view this as a move against Jerome Randle and Cal and not necessarily a permanent move
Probably wants a longer quicker defender on Cals PG and is willing to give up some perceived playmaking ability of JA. Does everyone else get the feeling that this move was more related to frustration with JA and trying a different lineup to get things amped up defensively? TH’s comments were centered on defensive positioning. I for one am happy about the decision regardless of the presentation style.
This is not about "presentation style"
It is about managing the program and also having full confidence of players. Communication is a huge part of effective management. If it’s not effective, we will have issues.
Understand and agree. Maybe CBH is trying to get the attention of his players in a different way.
Maybe there is something going on behind the scenes with the players that he doesn’t like and he is somehow trying to send a message. If he feels the players have already become alienated somehow then perhaps this is his way of letting them know who is in charge. I don’t know. Grasping at straws trying to find a way to defend CBH. I find it hard to believe that he has a hard time communicating with the players. He has always seemed to me to be a great coach in that respect. Just look at the press conferences he gave when Love, Holiday, AA etc. have decided to test the waters. He always has their back and supports their decisions. No Pete Carroll stuff. His interviews have always seemed a bit guarded and issues kept close to the vest. Why would this situation be different?
I am as dumbfounded as you are 84
It doesn’t make a lot of sense. Let’s hope it’s an aberration. However, if we continue to see players going through motions rest of this season, I think this issue will become more prominent.
agree with you guys
I am pro Howland but this is disturbing. Clear communication is so critical to any enterprise. I hope there is some kind of hidden method to the madness here as you suggest 84. If not it’s a symptom of a very serious problem.
by RealisticBruinFan on Jan 6, 2010 9:16 AM PST reply actions
I have no idea what's going on here
As some of you have said, it’s so off from what we’ve seen in the past. Then again, this entire season is pretty much off from what we’ve seen, so maybe it’s not all that surprising. Tip of the iceberg perhaps?
Is BH feeling the pressure?
This isn’t NAU or Pitt. Could BH be feeling the pressure so much he is off his “game”? That could be a concern. Usually when this happens, it is a telling sign as regards the coach.
Bill
Mensgym
What can we do but shake our heads?
I know I’m at a loss for words.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
I know this is hard to hear
But I don’t think it is surprising. I don’t think Howland has been giving clear messages to his players in the past two years.
Certain players don’t really have to play hard on the defensive end (ND, Shipp, Holiday) and still get unlimited playing time, even though Howland says defense is the most important thing to him.
Not sure Drew Gordon was punished for his out of line behavior prior to a mutual decision to transfer. I haven’t seen any reports that he was.
So he has this rep as a tough coach, but it seems to be very selectively inforced, with some players being on the inside of his circle, and others, Like Lee Honneycut and JA, being on the outside. I mean, really, how can you announce this to the media without announcing it to your players?
Annother point, sort of related is Howland doesn’t like to do media.He had one of the hottest teams in the country for three years, with the most storied program in history, in the media capital of the world, but didn’t really make any splash with the media or capatilize on it. Imagine what CRN would have done with that type of success? He would have had UCLA’s name and program on the cover of every magazine, on every radio show, etc..
I’m not trying to be overly critical, but I am saying Howland needs to take a look at himself, get out of his bunker mentality, and make some changes…
The tortured guy who can’t sleep and is perpetually unhappy isn’t working with the players, it certainly doesn’t work with the media, and I don’t think its gonna sell a lot of tickets either. He needs to find some sort of joy and enthuisiasm for what he is doing and project that out to the players and the wider community of fans…
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
I think Shipp gets a bad rap
His style of play after his injuries was a lot different than before them. I believe he gave his all to the team and to CBH, his body just didn’t cooperate all the time. I distinctly remember a JS with a much quicker first step and a nose for the ball in the interior his freshman year and never seeing those particular skills again after his surgery. Pair that with his easygoing attitude and it leads many to believe that he doesn’t try, which I don’t think is true. I don’t think he fits in with ND and Holiday for this reason. Even Holiday played solid defense most of the time, and when he didn’t, I wouldn’t necessarily say it was because he wasn’t trying. I think what got to most people, myself included, was how he didn’t want to take responsibility for his personal blown defensive assignments. People are willing to forgive mistakes if you own up to them first, especially as a freshmen, if you own up to it. ND actually seems to have regressed on the defensive end of the floor from last year. I have no words to defend him on that.
I think you’re right about CBH not capitalizing on the publicity that comes with the success he has had. I think he has the belief that the media itself has little to do with basketball so he just doesn’t have much interest in it. CRN, on the other hand, is a much more natural showman, so maybe it’s unfair to compare the two because that’s a personality issue, but I would like to see CBH take a page out of the CRN publicity playbook and start seeking opportunities to showcase the program rather than just fulfill his obligations. It could go a long way to opening up recruiting outside of the west coast where we’ve struggled to gain a foothold thus far.
+1 on JS
He was a major contributor to the success of the program. Just because he smiled does not mean he wasn’t playing all out or that he was not competitive.
sjh
I like Shipp's game
The guy displayed a lot of heart the season he attempted to play through the pain after having his first hip surgery. His last two years as a Bruins were excellent, he was a leader, a willing defender and made several clutch shots. Hope he’s doing well in Turkey.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
DG
was quietly suspended from practice for a couple of days with CBH keeping things in-house
by britishbruin on Jan 6, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Howland & Communication
I’ve previously stated my dissatisfaction with Howland’s offensive system, but, in no way does that translate into me not wanting him leading our basketball program. The decision to start Honeycutt is based upon Anderson not being fully healthy, JA showing up late for a rehab session on his strained groin, and the match up with Cal.
UCLA will employ the zone liberally against Cal and the length of Lee, Roll and Honeycutt will be a large plus. Howland didn’t start JA against Kansas due to his tardiness to practice if my memory serves me correctly. I don’t think this is a reflection of Howland’s lack of communcation with his players and I don’t think he’s lost this group of guys either. Instead CBH is trying to get his point across to JA that he is point guard and the defacto leader on this rudderless team, he has to set the example in every area – that includes showing up on time for practice and rehab sessions with the training staff.
As for the Arizona game the Wildcats exploited the Bruins lack of athleticism along its front line in a big way. As much as we love RN’s hustle, he is so undersized to play center and doesn’t have the leaping ability to finish on the offensive end or keep athletic players off the glass. I’m not picking on RN, just pointing out the obvious that he’s being used, out of neccissity, at center and that retards his development moving forward. Howland’s hands are severely tied with this group of players. They have some good parts and decent role players, but outside of Honeycutt and Lee don’t have the guys that can get their own shot whenever they want.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
It's the right decision.
Coach Howland had to be harsh on these “ME” first players. I am not there behind the scenes. So, we do not know the whole truth. We are judging from a few exerts from what we read or see on t.v. When you have a bunch of talented it’s common for them to want the ball or to talk themselves up. JA. is a great stat filler. But, he is not a great team player. He needs to learn how to use his abilities for the team. It doesn’t matter how many great players are on the floor. When it’s 4 on 5 all the time you are going to many break downs on defense. WHICH IT SHOWS! Malcom at the point should of happen a lot sooner. Coach had to wait and see who was going to step up. The only players who have really stepped up were the freshmans. Coach has to have his team believe in him and his philosophy. I feel all his actions with the players are warranted. GO BRUINS!
This is a mistake
on CBH’s part. Of course, he may name starters as he pleases, for whatever reasons he may have; that is never an issue. But not communicating first with his players is poor practice. There should always be a “we’re in this together.” feeling among players and coaches. The media should never receive this sort of information before the team does.
This seems blown out of proportion to me
JA showed up late for rehab and got punished in a symbolic way: not starting. This doesn’t mean he isn’t going to play significant minutes. This doesn’t mean that the team is going to play a significantly different style, or that the rest of the team needs to prepare differently for this game with TH starting instead of JA.
If CBH decided that Bobo was going to play 30 minutes at the point, then it would be worth preparing the rest of the team with the earliest possible notice. Similarly, if CBH said he was going to bench JA for the first half, that would be significantly different from saying he isn’t going to start. What do we want CBH to do? Call a meeting and tell everyone that JA has been a naughty boy and isn’t going to start?
Some of us occasionally make comments about off-the-court performance, and how far people’s efforts and commitment on the practice court might affect their playing time. If JA – a person who should realize that his position is on the line, given TH’s ability and his own shaky performances this season – doesn’t get himself together enough to show up on time for rehab, I have no sympathy for him.
If this is what CBH needs to do to shake people up, so be it. I’ve seen a lot of complaining about how CBH stubbornly sticks with the same players, and how the non-starters must get discouraged knowing that they can never break into the team; now I see people worried that the players will now be overly fearful about getting canned. If people – including a marginal point guard – are getting complacent in their role, I’m all for CBH throwing some uncertainty out there.
Management 101
You communicate and let your team know of big decisions before sharing it with rest of the world. This is not a matter of calling a “meeting” and telling everyone about JA’s demotion. It is about taking the time to reach out to all the players involved (in this case Anderson, Lee and Honeycutt) before letting the world know that you are making a decision and articulating to them clearly why you are making it.
Oh players on the court (the young one) already appear pretty tentative and fearful because they play as if they are walking on eggshells waiting for that quick hook (unless you happen to be some “shooter” from Serbia who has a penchant of getting into police blotter for being at the “wrong place at the wrong time”).
how big of a decision is this?
Seems mostly symbolic to me. Everyone knew JA was nursing an injury and might play limited minutes. This decision makes little difference to anyone else on the team other than JA; it seems to be a disciplinary matter between CBH and JA. ML will get a few more minutes at point than he usually gets; TH may get a few more minutes on the court than he usually gets. Not a huge deal. How much time elapsed between the late rehab and the announcement? If it was days and days, I can see this making CBH look furtive and conspiratorial if he went through practices with the team and didn’t let them know. If it was a recent thing, I don’t see the big deal.
LOL at linking ‘shooter from Serbia’ with his police incidents, btw.
by britishbruin on Jan 6, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
guess we'll see at the end of the game
Last game, with TH still coming back from illness, TH played 24 minutes, JA 25 minutes. If TH ends up playing 30 minutes and JA ends up playing 20 minutes, that would seem the minimum to really be a ‘big’ change for the team. Maybe that’s what we’ll see. It’s a ‘big decision’ for JA, as he is being publically disciplined for misbehavior. I don’t see it’s a particularly big decision for everyone else, unless it leads to a more-than-minor rebalancing of playing time.
by britishbruin on Jan 6, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Benching the starting point guard is a big deal
and it’s specifically a big deal since everyone around the UCLA program (who follow it closely) has been asking for it. When making a decision like this, Howland should have had the courtesy to tell his players first, instead of letting them find out via the media. If you have ever managed a team in professional life, you would know that the minute you let your staffers/players get exposed to the outside world without communicating them to first, you lose their trust and confidence.
This ultimately killed Karl Dorrell’s regime in Westwood (who had a history of throwing his players and staff under the bus) and if Howland keeps this up, it is going to compound his current problems even more. No amount of knee jerk spinning/defending a head coach will help at that point.
well at least we agree
that knee-jerk actions are unlikely to serve anyone’s purposes.
I think I disagree that “it’s specifically a big deal since everyone around the UCLA program (who follow it closely) has been asking for it”; that strikes me as the reason WE are subjectively inclined to think that it is a big deal and make more of it than is objectively warranted.
In any case, what really matters is how big a deal the players think this is, and how they react to it, and whether CBH gets them playing hard or whether he loses them altogether. I am in ‘wait-and-see’ mode. I think JA not showing up for his scheduled rehab is just as big a story as the manner of his benching (and reflects poorly both on the player who did it and on the coach who has apparently failed to instil discipline in him so far)
by britishbruin on Jan 6, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
He told JA in advance
I would be a 100% with you if he had not told JA in advance but he did. There is a flipside here. As a coach, you may not want to call out a player in front of the team. You take them aside and tell them what is wrong. This could have been what happen here. Again, JA WAS told in advance.
Should ML and TH know of their new roles before the press does, ideally yes. But I don’t know the timing of everything and again the MUST part was JA had to know first, which he did.
It is a big deal to JA and hopefully he realizes that he owes himself, his teammates, and all of UCLA an all out effort even in the training room.
some worry and some hope
the worry:
his comment on shoulda woulda used more zone against zona sounds a lot like last year’s asu game we blew when he said he should of substituted better. it’s nice to see the coach admit to his mistakes but troubling that it takes the bad result occurring before he realizes the folly of his actions. none of us get paid to observe and make decisions but in both instances these things were painstakingly obvious.speaks to his stubborn nature. could also be indicative of his staff’s ineptitude or yes-man composition. for this i worry.
the hope:
this is a reach but this is all i have. maybe this is a bit of game play by the bruins. they’re acting surprised to catch the opponent off-guard? or like bb said this is a psych tool to get on the players i dunno, but i’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and judge him on the result.
Across The Face
Anderson should have expecting a benching
after having already been benched this year for showing up late to practice.
by inhowlandwetrust on Jan 6, 2010 12:14 PM PST reply actions
I wasn't aware of that
In which case, all the more reason not to give him advance warning the second time around.
by britishbruin on Jan 6, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, he should have
But he (along with his team-mates) were still entitled the respect and courtesy of finding out about the decision from their coaches than the LA media.
Worth mentioning that
The last time JA didn’t start he was off the floor for less than a minute, I think. It was ceremonial. But it was also before TH started playing, or right around when he first came back. I think it might have occasioned RN’s first start.
This time it shouldn’t be ceremonial. More thoughts elsewhere, in the most current thread.
I Am Concerned but,,,,
Coach Howland has yet to play his ace in the hole: Not playing the seniors. I think that once he does that and the team doesn’t improve then we’re really in trouble.
I have been outspoken about my hatred of ND’s game this season. I’ve gone as far as to call him Basketball Cancer. Keefe seems to be Basketball Amnesia because he was a better player in high school then he is now. And Mike Roll, though he’s putting up the best numbers of the three, is probably the 4th guy on the team that I’d want taking the big shot.
This team can still finish .500 for the season. They can still prove that even a team with bad chemistry can win at UCLA. The first step is kicking ND off the team. He gives the Bruins a bad rep and is a bad example for anyone who picks up a basketball. Every instinct he has about the game is wrong. Bad shot selection, bad passing, no defense and on top of that he’s got the Simple Jack hairstyle.
If Coach Howland has the balls to drop ND we’ll probably finish the season well.
Check out my article about the Dodger Dugout Club.
Good point
And I like calling it the “ace.” I wouldn’t include MR in the seniors. And many of us would put JA in the category of the seniors—he has been treated as if he is a senior, but he’s only a sophomore. It’s really ND and JK. It would mean giving BL big minutes and advantages, along with the already established TH and RN, and we don’t know how BL would do.
We don’t worry about so much about salvaging the season, but more about getting the best team on the floor and starting to play well and with some passion.
by citizen zhiv on Jan 6, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
1. We're guessing on communciation 2. Honeycutt will be great
1. Much of this is informed and logical analysis but parts of the discussion are guessing. We don’t know Coach’s schedule. Key components of a college basketball coach’s day and week are rigidly scheduled. There are often times to talk to journalists which are blocked out on a coach’s schedule. Talking to journalists is in part a sound sports marketing strategy (which given the questionable marketing skill of the UCLA Athletic Department as reflected by the abysmal basketball attendance is a great idea). It may be that coach did not have the time to meet with the entire team before the made the hard call to go with Honeycutt. Coach gave Anderson the bad news in person which was the right thing to do. Sure it would be better to have the other players find out about the change before the beat writers but we are guessing (albeit based on fair inferences) that this is a communication breakdown beyond that. jaybru777 are right on—we don’t know the truth.
2. Tyler is gonna be a real sparkplug. Isn’t it exciting to know he will be starting? And let’s applaud Anderson for his spirited play—he will improve this and next year and he will develop so he can play with real consistency down the road. Anderson will win some games for us particularly next year.
Well Said Peggysue69
I agree with you completely! Jermaine Anderson is a 2 guard anyways! Basketball is all about flow. He does not flow well with the other players UCLA has right now. Maybe by the end of the year it will be different.
JA
JA is definitely a lead guard. I saw JA totally destroy Kyle Fogg in high school and to see what went down last Saturday tells me that JA’s head isn’t straight and he’s, likley, more severely hampered by the groin injury than we thought. His defense has been pourous the entire season. I’m not going to bash JA for playing hurt. He played with a lot more freedom in high school. It seems to me like JA and Dragovic are easy targets for the majority of posters to dogpile on – they are just part of the reason this team hasn’t played up to its ability, not the sole reason.
What is hampering JA is his ability to move laterally, that would be a really strong case that his groin is an issue. Also JA can finish at the rim like Farmar, he hasn’t shown that type of burst this year. His play hasn’t been great, and he’s struggled with defensive pressure, but he wasn’t as highly recruited based on empty stats. JA is a really good D-1 guard. He’s been hurt since he’s been on campus. Groin, strained hamstring, quad injury, ankle…geez
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
really?
“JA is a really good D-1 guard”?
Really?
by britishbruin on Jan 6, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
He hasn’t shown it in games. But I stand by that.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
blaming JA's performance this year on his groin injury is faulty
Last year he had no groin injury and in his limited minutes basically played the same. I didn’t see any promise for him last year. Unlike when DC’s frosh year when he would come in for JF and we would all just be in awe of his speed. Or when RW would come in for DC a year later. Show serious athleticism and the ability to score one on one. JA does have moments, but they are so few and far between. I agree he is a D1 guard, but not at one of the top 50 programs in the country. Maybe lower level D1. This saga is far from over. Hopefully JA will prove most of us wrong.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
he was injured last year too
he hurt his leg in the team USA trials over the summer prior to coming to UCLA
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Don't buy it. Don't recall anything about him being injured most of last season
If it is true, then I would label him as the “oft injured never lived up to expectations point guard”. Either way he has not shown any consistent ability to lead a program like UCLA.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
JA
It’s not fair to compare him to Westbrook or Collison. Those guys are both extreme freaks of athletic ability. JA is a different type of guard. More of an Andre Miller type. A pure distruibutor and a guy that makes the open jumper.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
so
where we used to think that DC and RW were raw but talented athletes, shouldn’t we have been left with the impression that JA was a raw but talented distributor/shooter?
He's shown it in glimpses...
Very hard to pigeon hole a guy after 14 games in his sophomore season. I think the Bruins as a team would be a lot more productive with an inside scoring threat. If the team isn’t going to do a lot of scoring in the open court and there is no decent center on the roster, how does the PG show his ability? Passing out to the wings for a forced three pointer?
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Frankly
RN has more of a post game than LMR ever did, and seems to have more touch than PAA; even Ryan Hollins was pretty much a catch-and-dunk guy (or a take-a-dribble, get-stripped guy). We have had one year in the last five with a center who demanded double teams, and yet our point guards have looked pretty good.
I'm not comparing him to JF, DC or RW
UCLA has had three consecutive NBA PG’s. JA has ability but not to that level as of yet, give the guy some time. Those guys had a supporting cast that was a lot better than this crews. Hollins is in the NBA doing pretty well as a reserve center, maybe he’s a little more than a catch and dunk guy.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
sorry I must have misunderstood you
when you said
I think the Bruins as a team would be a lot more productive with an inside scoring threat. If the team isn’t going to do a lot of scoring in the open court and there is no decent center on the roster
as making a comment on our inside scoring threat / center.
Pointing out this team's overall weaknesses
The prior UCLA teams had future pros at the forward and guard spots. The talent level on this year’s club is a few notches down from that. This team would be better if they had a center that could give them consistent scoring and pass out of the double team.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
JA
JA is a sophomore (and should be forced to earn his minutes), and his talent and skill level seems to be that of a 4 year backup. Cameron Dollar is probably the apt comparison. Malcolm Lee should have been the starting PG after 3-4 games at most.
Going forward, JA should be a good asset in 1011 and 1112 as a backup PG. He might fulfill some of his seeming potential as a senior, if he keeps working hard and settles down and shoots better.
It’s not to say that he won’t get minutes and contribute on this team. He can be very valuable coming off the bench. But ML and MR together in the backcourt are a great combination. Roll has been playing out of position, guarding and guarded by 3s, much too much this season.
I concur
UCLA’s best lineup – please don’t kill me for this: Lee PG, Roll SG, Honeycutt SF, Nelson PF, Morgan C. Allow ND, JK, JA, BL and Moser to come in off the pine and contribute mightily.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Sounds good.
Because I like Bobo, but he is not ready. If Bobo had RN’s hustle and intensity, your line up would be a winner.
by Arturo del Mundo on Jan 6, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
good d1 guard not same thing as good ucla guard
recent memory.. jrue holiday, westbrook, collison, afflalo, bozeman, watson, bdavis
westbrook, collison, afflalo, farmar (only really farmar was much higher in what people thought going in), all 4 were beasts by the middle of their sophomore year. we better hope he stays the course and improves like earl watson
if he was better than fogg then, he has gone done and fogg has gone up, cause it sure didn’t look like it last weekend.
He's not done yet...
I never thought Bozeman or Watson would accomplish much during their sophomore years. Guys do get better. JA was “the” guard in OC, Fogg was very good, but not on the same tier.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Bozeman got better when he was moved off the point by JF
Bozeman also became a solid defender and that is what made him standout his Sr. year.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Bozeman
so JA could be a role playing defensive small forward on a Final Four team? I thought you were making the case for him being a good D-1 point guard?
Read the entire comment
Both guys are from the OC, both were highly accomplished entering college and did very little to distinguish themselves. I was making the point that JA hasn’t played consistently through 14 games of his sophomore season, that doesn’t mean his career is a bust. He’s a third of the way through is four year playing career at UCLA.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
put it this way.. at the current rate
do you want jerime anderson to be the starting pg at ucla next year? in two years? i hope he turns it around.. but i’d like to see him improve, get confident, and get comfortable coming off the bench as a back up guard
From what he's shown thus far...
No. I’m a UCLA grad and season ticket holder I want us to be 33-0 and win the national title every year.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
me too
he seems (except for showing up late for the training room) like a good kid. i hope he does well. but i also hope we keep recruiting some more guards.
to repeat a point made by people on other threads
being “the guard” in the OC means different things in different years. Hauling in a recruiting class with some of the best in California doesn’t mean much if California has a down year. So citing his HS performance as proof of anything doesn’t mean much when he has had a significant amount of playing time at the collegiate level without showing anything.
That is probably his future role.
If Lazeric Jones turns out to be as good as we all hope, then JA will be brought in to spell Jones or Lee and will be counted on for D and not O. This is not exactly the role Bozeman had as CB was a starter. However, unless we continue to not have enough talent to fill a starting 5 JA will not start his Jr. or Sr. years.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
I haven't seen Jones play
Guess we’ll know a lot more once the Bruins add him to the mix along with Smith and Lamb. More athleticism for sure.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
And the point you make is valid whether intended or not..
We really don’t know what we are getting in some of these players until we see them playing with those four letters on the chest, and having CBH telling them what to do. That can be said for Smith, Lamb or any future player as well. Same for JA. We are just saying he didn’t turn out to be what most were expecting.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
High School is High School
He was great with every one deferring to him in high shcool. He has had the opportunity at UCLA to shine and has not come thru yet. Now he has players who are better or just as good and it shows. High School is not the same as college. I like JA. But, it’s UCLA BRUINS. We are team first!
More to it than that...
Your points are valid, but he’s is deferring to the seniors and making a point to get other guys involved. Anyone can see he’s playing tenative out there. His play improved after the poor tournament showing, but he reinjured the groin against ASU – played a good game against the Devils by the way. We will see.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
11 Banners. I admire you for hanging in there and fighting on behalf of JA. I hope you turn out to be the prophet.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
I've seen him play
JA is a baller. Like Malcolm Lee I would hope he has a break out game and get his confidence…
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
I hope
he damn well shows up to rehab if he is injured
Incidentally
has everyone seen the tWWL-Los Angeles take on this?
I find the quote from TH particularly telling. Some really good journalism to be able to capture the emotions and reaction.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/news/story?id=4799421
That sums it all up.
I knew CBH had a reason for benching him. We all know it’s not for being late to rehab. This will be exposed later in the season. CBH is showing him it’s Team fist.
You are joking right? Short write up doesn't capture anything for me.
by 84 on Jan 6, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
glad you're smiling
I was worried I had angered people by wasting 15 seconds of their life…
Got to do our best
We are going to have some passionate conversations rest of this season (I am getting that feeling). So we need to do our best to throw in levity as much as we can. I am dreading tonight’s game thread. lol
Crazy thought
I think UCLA beats Cal on the boards tonight, plays with a lot of passion and comes away with the “W”!
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
You are a wise man...
I still think we get our game together, finish in the top 3 in conference and with the automatic bid in March.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
I hear the 8-clap
Thundering out of Haas Pavillion as Lee hits a runner at the buzzer to win – 71-69!
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Crazy thought part 2
I think UCLA comes out with some energy,
plays them close in the first half,
runs out of steam a bit in the second half,
but through some dogged defense and a couple of big shots,
UCLA beats the spread!
Seriously
The key is Cal will attack whoever Dragovic and Roll guard off the dribble. They will spread the court, dare us to help defensively and, if we do, they will kill us with the three ball. The best way to defend Cal is to play a junk defense (A Box and One would be great), take away Randle and let the rest of the Bears bomb away.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
don't be in dread, N
I’m predicting ND is going to come and have a lights-out defensive performance, now that he isn’t so discouraged by defensive liability JA getting so many minutes at a key position… I mean, why should he waste his shooting energy guarding a power forward on the interior if he knows that our starting point guard can’t maintain a strong perimeter?
Don’t forget, unlike the young guys who often get a quick breather after limited bursts of playing time, ND is burdened with having to play long stretches without getting subbed out…
and if ND gets his D going
that should give him more confidence to take shots at the offensive end
I’m bummed that I missed the day that ESPN put out a Craigslist ad seeking an ESPNLA columnist.
by insomniacslounge on Jan 6, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Where is the JA who once (probably often) stayed after practice
to get in more shooting? Am I mistaking him for someone else? I think I recall early on this year several kudos handed to JA for his determination and committment. Where is that now?
Coahcing
I would have to say with out a doubt, I am optimistic. But, at the same time a realist. I am proud of where Ben Howland has taken UCLA bb.We had a lot of beige years with the bruins before coach howland. Coach is recruiting elite players and landing a lot of them for Ucla. Ucla went to three Final Fours. We were better than 60 Other teams for 3 years in a row. We could be cynical and analyze the program because we are FAN-natics. We love UCLA with our hearts. But, at the end of the day coaches….Coach. Players have to learn to how to play. We think because these guys are in college that they had great coaching coming from High School. But, that’s not the case. Most players have to be taught systems, how to play defense. When you get a true freshman with a High Basket Ball I.Q. it’s very rare. Now were second guessing his strategy? He might not make all the greatest decisions… I agree. I am sure glad he’s our COACH! GO BRUINS!!
Agree about coaching
Disagree that Howland’s system doesn’t need an adjustment. All that said would not want another man leading the program, he’s an honest, sincere guy that genuinely cares about the kids. On top of that he’s an outstanding teacher.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
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