Spaulding Roundup: QB Soap Opera, Protection Issues, Injury Updates & Other UCLA Notes
by Nestor on Oct 15, 2010 5:54 AM PDT
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PrintWell, I wish we could end this weekday with some good news on the QB soap opera front. It is getting a little tiring to blog about Kevin Prince's health issues. Yeah, I know, I just blogged about "patience." Seriously though the situation is beyond frustrating and more that I think about it, I think it wouldn't be too prudent to blame anyone over the frustrating mess. Prince sat out part of practice yesterday - again - because of his "stiff and swollen" knee (which was operated on during his high school career. From ESPNLA:
"It's kind of a muddy picture," he said. "So they're not 100% sure on why it is, but the facts are that it is and we're just trying to manage the symptoms."
Prince said that drop-back passing does not aggravate the injury, but that running has caused him problems.
"When you don't have full extension in your knee, it's tough to run, especially getting to top speed," he said. "So running and explosive type movements-cutting and things of that nature-are more difficult than usual."
From the reports it doesn't sound like there is anything physicians can do. They have already done an MRI yet they don't seem to know what is causing the discomfort. From Gold in the Daily News:
"There's not much else to do," Prince said. "We`re just looking to maintain and make progress; Get the swelling out of there and get the full range of what a knee is supposed to do."
So there you have it. Now before everyone gets up in arms and start clamoring for Richard Brehaut, note that he has been having less than mediocre week at Spaulding according to multiple reports from practice this week. So it's not like the coaches are purposefully keeping him away from the starting positions. By all accounts it appears Brehaut - at least for now - has been unable to step up and vow anyone with his performance to justify a starting spot. More after the jump.
Coach Rick Neuheisel made the media after practice yesterday to talk about QB issues, adjusted schedule due to a Thursday night start and other general updates on the team:
As Neuheisel mentioned they "rested" Prince and hopes to "get him back to as close to full speed as he can be." He also said that from what he saw Prince was "feeling good" during the Cal game week and that any injury effect seemed to be from general "wear and tear."
I think if Price is feeling all right by this Sunday and can take every rep next week, the UCLA coaches should stick with him for at least one more game. I still don't think it makes any sense to start Richard Brehaut on national TV against possibly the number 1 ranked team in the country. Brehaut doesn't seem to have step up to earn the job yet. Moreover, it is not going to be helpful to his long term confidence if he starts and then goes on to get absolutely crushed by the Ducks.
It seems like coaches should stick with Prince for at least one more game. Give him the start (provided that he is close to healthy). If he is ineffective in the first few series, then they should put in Brehaut (not wait till the game gets out of hand) and then go from there.
Of course the QB issue in Oregon is going to be moot, if the Bruins cannot handle the Ducks pass rush. Oregon has a solid pass rushing team which averages 2.67 sacks per game (number 24 in the country). BTW interesting UCLA's pass rush (3 sacks per game) ranks number 15. Anyway, the UCLA OL's pass protection imploded against Cal (giving up 5 sacks just in that game). Coach Bob Palcic acknowledged the issue:
"There are breakdowns in protection for a lot of reasons," Palcic said. "But the line was not as sturdy as we should have been. We were faulty in some of our techniques and that was my fault."
Palcic has been shuffling his line a bit this week as by rotating Sean Sheller, Mike Harris and Micah Kia have at tackles. Kia has been chipping in at both left and right side. Also Chris Ward has been getting looks as Eddie Williams went to Hawaii to attend a funeral. These guys will have a lot of pressure on them next Thursday night in a crazy atmosphere at Autzen Stadium. Should be interesting to see how they respond.
As for other tidbits here is Peter Yoon:
- Andrew Abbott and Courtney Viney continued to get most of the first-team reps at cornerback with Aaron Hester subbing in. Safeties Tony Dye and Rahim Moore mostly played their regular positions but also worked in some at cornerback, as they have all week.
- Cornerback Sheldon Price was still on crutches and in a knee brace, but said he hoped to be ready by next week's game. F-back Anthony Barr sat out because of a left calf strain. Receiver Nelson Rosario is off crutches but is still in a protective ankle boot as he tries to return from an ankle sprain.
Hope they all feel healthy soon and can get back in action this Sunday.
GO BRUINS.
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Darius Bell?
Any chance Darius Bell can get in the mix? I have not heard much about him. Is he someone that will ever be in serious contention to play?
Not sure if he is ready to contribute this year
From what I have heard he is pretty far behind Brehaut in terms of grasp of the offense and his arm strength isn’t there (at least not yet).
And, it appears that Brehaut if far behind Prince
in terms of grasp, if not execution, of the offense.
Not a good place to be.
sjh
I am not sure if we can call it "far behind"
No one knows except for coaches. In the Washington State game Brehaut missed few reads. Then again Price missed tons of reads against Stanford (and made the wrong decision bunch of times). I think Price is probably ahead of Brehaut but to me the difference is not night and day. Price right now is the worst QB in entire FBS. He is ranked 120 out of 120. If he can’t get it done by Oregon game, I am going to be ready for change.
I think the difference shows up
in the way we implement the pistol offense. I think Prince is far ahead in making the reads and implementing it with both deception and the ability to run, himself.
During the WSU game, Brehaut was not fooling anyone with his ball handling. And, truth be told, we didn’t run as much pistol as we do with Prince and I had a feeling that we had limited the playbook for Brehaut.
When not injured, Prince has very good 40 speed. And, he’s tough and able to run through people.
I like Prince’s toughness. He leads by example. He puts it all on the line. I did not see those things in Brehaut in the WSU game — they may well be there, but they were not obvious. (I’d be interested in hearing from those who know how strong Brehaut’s leadership qualities are.)
We’ve all written a lot about how Prince’s stat’s are in some part due to a total failure by the O team — pass protection, catching the ball and penalties being the most obvious.
I, for one, see a clear gap between Brehaut and Prince. I like Brehaut, think he’s a great kid and want him to do well. And, I’d prefer he play if Prince is not 100% and/or has not practiced for a full week before the game.
But, I believe the gap between a healthy Prince and Brehaut is significant.
sjh
As I said Prince will get one more game from me ...
To improve his performance to an acceptable level. If he doesn’t it will be up to Chow and Neuheisel to get Brehaut ready. If necessary they will need to repackage in some of our pro-sets to fit Brehaut’s abilities (he has a better touch on the ball and this year has shown a little better pocket presence).
We can’t have the football team being held hostage to one QB’s health situation. One more game for Prince.
Nestor,
I’m having a little bit of trouble following what you are looking for in1 more game.
I think are several questions leading to this game. Prince isn’t at 100 percent. I don’t think he will be at 100 percent for Oregon either. Unfortunately, we don’t have much of a “pocket”. And our defense is going to be a mess against Oregon. So is Brehaut able to make the appropriate reads for the offense we focused on during all of camp?
Do you believe we will be able to incorporate a sub-pro set for Brehaut if we have to in less than a week? And if Prince isn’t 100 percent should we sit him out this oregon game because we’ve seen what he can do when he’s not feeling right?
I honestly believe Prince is the right guy leading this team, and the passing numbers are not very good based on several reasons. But, everything is contingent on his health, and it is not looking pretty. I don’t know if I want Prince in against Oregon if he’s not at full speed, mostly because I don’t believe it would really give us an accurate assessment on his ability. Even though his stats are a little better than Brehaut and he has more passing yds, long yds, and passing tds than Brehaut also.
Anyway, I just think this whole team needs to jump in to this game with a desire for over-compensating our deficiencies. And that’s going to come down to our Defense, our OL, our Wrs and TEs and even our RBs(though they have been great so far). I’d love to hear your thoughts either way.
by UCLABRU1 on Oct 15, 2010 9:12 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Not looking for an amazing performance by any means
However, I like to see Prince complete passes somewhere in the 55-65 percent completion rage, throw around 150-200 yards, try out post patterns, and of course keep the D somewhat honest with his legs.
We don’t have a prayer against Oregon. However, that said I think Prince needs to direct an offense that will be efficient, manage the game, and keep their O off the field as much as possible. At this point I am certainly not asking Prince to be an elite QB. However, it’d be helpful if he can at least manage the game. He didn’t do that during our games against Stanford or Cal.
yeah, it was really frustrating seeing our offense struggle so much
against the North. And I definitely agree with what you’d like to see Prince do. I think he is very capable of putting up those numbers. But if he’s not fully healthy I don’t see that kind of performance happening. The swelling in his knee is only going to get worse if we have him running for his life when Oregon’s D busts through our OL, and that will affect his entire game, and possibly his confidence, not to mention forced mistakes.
I don’t know if I want Prince in next week. I almost want to just give him this time to heal. It really sucks that this injury is going to keep being aggravated without proper rehabilitation for it.
by UCLABRU1 on Oct 15, 2010 9:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Your points are execellent as always
I don’t want an unhealthy Prince going in there. However, this is such a maddeningly gray area. What if the doctors, coaches, and Prince think he is about 90 percent and he doesn’t miss a rep. In that case I think Prince will most likely get the start. Then in that situation, I think it would still be reasonable from us to expect at least a serviceable and efficient performance. However, if Prince at 90 percent can’t get us that kind of performance, then I think the coaches will have to figure out a strategy to go with Brehaut for few games until Prince is 100 percent healthy.
Thanks, uggghhhh
This whole situation is frustrating. I hope if he’s at 90 percent, it can be sustained. Anybody else need a drink? And yes…it is only 10 a.m…Just kidding, sort of.
by UCLABRU1 on Oct 15, 2010 9:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Prince has to be hurt worse than they are letting on....
I think they just aren’t telling us the true extent of his injury. You could just tell vs Cal, he wasn’t running at all and when he did he was slow and gimpy. The pistol just doesn’t work without the QB being a running threat. When Prince is right, he’s our best bet to win.
I like the idea of Prince starting but pulling him if he can’t run the ball. Brehut was ok, vs Wash St, he just needs to keep the rock a bit more to keep the D honest.
I feel sorry for Prince. The guy has been just unlucky on the injury front. He’s been playing thru injuries for his entire career. I can’t imagine what he would be without all the injuries. Unfortunately we don’t have the time for him to heal up and be at his best. One thing we do know, Prince is a warrior!!! Hope to see him completely healthy for a full year next year.
GO BRUINS!!!!
speaking of managing expectations: how do you think we are getting to 150-200 yards?
without the pass protection to hang around in the pocket, our ability to throw long pass routes is severely diminished. Let’s say optimisitically that we might average 10 yards per completion under that scenario, with most completions in the 5-15 yard range (this is up a fair bit from his current yards per completion).
And let’s say Prince completes 60% of those passes in the middle of your acceptable range. This would up his yards per attempt to 6.
To get to 150-200 yards at 6 yards per attempt would mean Prince throwing 25-33 times, which seems very high for our current offense.
As such, I think 150-200 yards would be more than managing the game, it would either be a super-efficient performance (i.e. completing 70% or more), a breakout for deep plays with some help from a much improved pass blocking effort and some separation from receivers (i.e. upping the yards per completion significantly with some big plays that we currently are incapable of producing), or a pass-happy offensive gameplan (i.e. throwing the ball 25+ times due to us getting crushed and having to go to the air early and often.)
To my mind, he needs to be efficient enough in the air to set up the running game, which could be 10-16, 100 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
by britishbruin on Oct 15, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
It can be done
It doesn’t all have to come from deep throws. We will need the WR’s & RB’s to get some YAC. There has to be more creativity in this offense. The coaches must find ways to get the ball to our athletic guys in space.
that's all fine
but I think you confirm an underlying premise, which is that it will need significantly improved performance from multiple players; if the WRs, RBs don’t get yards after the catch and there is little pass-protection, then Prince could play well and not get close to 150 yards.
by britishbruin on Oct 15, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point British
It is really disheartening to see the few passes our WRs catch only go to the point of where the ball was caught. I will say this, coaches need to drive that hunger for more yards into these WRs and RBs. I don’t know why but they have really allowed our WRs to play the blame game on the QB and 1. Not chase the ball until the whistle is blown. And 2. Stopped trying to make the play after they do the bare minimum, which is, catching the ball. Its those extra few yards that can push a defense to tire itself out more and have UCLA manage the clock more efficiently.
I really better not see any of our WRs stopping on plays. I am holding the coaches accountable for the (lack of) effort displayed by these guys so far. Maybe it should fall on Reggie Moore. But the play is NOT finished until the player is brought down fighting for every yard. That is the passion Bruin fans deserve to see. Same goes for the defense!
by UCLABRU1 on Oct 15, 2010 12:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I have got the impression
that after all the drops in weeks 1-2 they really emphasized securing the ball rather than catching the ball ready to move with it.
by britishbruin on Oct 15, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
That's sad
because I haven’t seen much of that either. It would be nice to see guys like carroll, thigpen, Jetski, Marvray get some quick catch plays with the defense spread out so they can make some moves and get extra yards. I agree that the WR’s need to be more aggressive when the ball is in the air and when it’s in their hands. It seems like sometimes they half ass their routes because they don’t think KP will have time to get it to them or the accuracy to get it to them.
I don't doubt that Prince has a better understanding of the offense
and I also don’t doubt that Prince is certainly a better running option, when healthy, then Breuhaut.
However, Prince is not good at executing an accurate throw to a receiver. He has limited ability to throw the ball long, and he can’t hit receivers in stride. That is a major problem. I don’t know how much of that is injury and how much of that is being an inaccurate passer by nature, but in his play to date, even going back to last year, he was never great with his accuracy.
All that being said, the most important thing to keep in mind is the opposing defense knows Prince is not 100%, and they know he doesn’t throw the ball well. What does that mean? It means not only do you sell out the run, but you also realize Prince won’t keep the ball very much, because he is injured and trying not to get knocked out of the game. That makes defending the run much easier because you have eliminated the entire advantage of the pistol offense at that point. a qb who is not a real running threat allows the defense not to defend the qb as a runner and makes the game much, much easier for them. That is part of why the running game was so poor in CAL.
by silverlakebruin on Oct 15, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
One more observation
I am not sure Brehaut woudld be comfortable carrying the ball the 6-10 times per game a qb should in the pistol.
I think you have a qb who is injured and can’t run, and another who isn’t comfortable in that style.
I don’t know Bre isn’t comfortable running, I just haven’t seen him do it enough, and its a sense I get in watching his decisions with the ball.
by silverlakebruin on Oct 15, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Unsure of the problem.....
Does RB have some sort of learning disability that precludes him from learning his assignments and read? He seems to possess the requisite tools to be a top QB in the Pac-10. RNC and CNC chose him over another QB who went to Stanford.
What I see is a kid who hasn’t been given enough reps to learn what he needs to know. In the past we have always had an adequate back-up QB who knew system and the plays and could come in off the bench and run the offense.
With the bye week, RB should have received a crash course in UCLA Pistol 101. We are suppose to have a QB gurus on our staff. They can’t prepare this kid to be ready to come in off the bench.
Is the problem that we have two sophmore QB’s? Usually a 2nd string QB has been in the system a while and he has had time to learn thesystem before he moves up the ladder. If that’s the case then I guess we’ll have to wait until we have a stockpile of QB’s and move theim up the ladder a year at a time.
That CRN and CNC were impressed with him as a high school QB
doesn’t necessarily tell us much. We’ve all seen football and basketball players that were studs in high school but their games never translated to the college level. Whether the disconnect is mental or physical, sometimes it just doesn’t happen. Not saying that this is the case for Brehaut, but that we need to evaluate his college game on a college level.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
and there haven't been enough in-game reps for anyone to accurately evaluate his game on a college level.
"I have one word for you...Be careful."
-Jose Guillen
+1 Curious Too
This is the exact comment I was going to post.
Is he doing poorly in the open competition?
Is he getting practice rep’s? The ability to deceive and then hand off requires timing that must be honed in practice.
sjh
Chow...UCLA's Annie Savoy
These are the ground rules. I hook up with one guy a season. Usually takes me a couple weeks to pick the guy – kinda my own spring training. And, well, you two are the most promising prospects of the season so far, so I just thought we should kinda get to know each other.
Ha Ha..Prince and Brehaut pleading their case...LOL
“…the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days…”
by GemCityBruin on Oct 15, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Wildcat O
Honestly, I think our best shot is to mix in a wildcat O where JetSki & DC can be in the backfield running read option plays. O-line can’t pass block, receivers can’t catch and don’t make an effort, & QBs (KP or RB) can’t consistently throw accurate balls. So…throw in a little wildcat and mix it up, similar to what Cal did against us. Anyone know if JetSki can throw?
They are going to have to play a ball control, keep Oregon’s O off the field type of game if they want to have any sort of chance to win. Which means they will need at least 300 yards on the ground & will need to win the time of possession battle. Wildcat O might help to keep Oregon’s D honest because as you all saw at Cal, KP ain’t running more then 3-5 times a game for the rest of the year. His knee is too broken down making him hesitant to run. Because of that, he’ll hand off more, even when the right read is for him to keep it. You cannot run the type of read-option Revolver O that was successful against UT and Houston with a QB that won’t run. Just won’t work…the D will read it and feast just like Cal did.
by Flem on Oct 15, 2010 9:44 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Prince v Breh v Bell v xxx --- It really doesn't matter for this team.
To be honest, our qb is not going to win this game. Not even close. We should really turn our focus to getting the filthy back in the “filthy five”. Pass blocking would be nice, completing a pass greater than 10 yards would be ammmaaaazzziiinngg, but I’m not holding my breath.
The true battle is getting the boys in the o-line fired up to come and hit their blocks hard to keep the runing game going all game. Without our O staying on the field, I predict the D dying before half time regardless who our DC is.
Wild cat, pistol, pro set, spread, reverses, hb option, whatever, we need our running backs to step up big and hit those holes.
If we do pass, no more cute garbage, slant, post and fly routes only, let our receivers earn the ball downfield. Once in a while we need tokeep them honest, at this level any college qb should be able to get the ball downfield 30 -40 yards. If they stack the box, make them pay.
Prince is not the answer...unfortunately
It has become very clear to me if we have to throw the ball you can’t keep in Prince. He honestly has never looked like a great thrower in the two years of him playing. For us to compete the rest of this season in a very tough Pac-10 we will need to throw the ball. If we have to throw, we need to go with Richard. Richard is no Peyton Manning, but, in my opinion, his balls are much more on target than Kevin’s. Our WRs have not shined at all this year, but more often then not our complaints are they should have caught balls that were thrown behind them or high or low. Richards balls get out faster and crisper. Kevin is a tough nose kid, but pure tools, Richard looks better. Why wait a week?? I do not have delusions of victory with Richard, but I do feel like he gives us a better chance of winning in the future. Lastly, if Kevin can’t run, then I see NO reason to be out there, that is his one strength over Richard. With Richard in, we have a better chance of a balanced offense.
Did Chow Make the QB's or did they make Chow?
I don’t know the answer here, but look at these guys Chow coached:
Steve Young, Phillip Rivers, Ty Detmer, Carson Palmer, Jim McMahon
These guys are or were great Pro QBs as well. So was it Chow or the other way around? I have been very unimpressed with his play calling, his creativity, and his development of the QBs at UCLA. I at at a loss here.
UM,
I’m pretty sure Chow did a great job preparing all of those quarterbacks for the next level. Talk to Philip Rivers, the guy has repeatedly spoken of Chow helping him prepare for the NFL. I don’t know where you’re going with saying all these guys were NFL bound without Chow. He didn’t accidently have these guys in his offensive schemes making the plays they did. He coached them up, and obviously talent is important, but not the deciding factor in great quarter backs. The problem is Chow came in to a broken team, and STILL doesn’t have anybody up front to protect his QBs.
by UCLABRU1 on Oct 15, 2010 10:58 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Au Contraire 96
The running game is ALL about the qb. The reason we were able to run down the throat of Texas and Houston was because of the running/deception of our qb. Without that last weekend, Cal packed the box and packed it tight allowing no room for our back to run. From the start they knew we were running it up the gut.
And when we tried to change that plan
The pass blocking deficiencies we’ve been hiding made themselves clear, which goes right back to what 96 was saying. It’s still a line problem. Not that we don’t have a QB problem, but we’ll never know how much of a problem that really is until we give our QBs a chance on passing downs.
Texas
Texas also tried to stack the box, but they executed very poorly. LB’s took poor angles and didn’t play very well allowing our line to dominate them. Cal lined up farther apart and closer to the line cutting off the pistol running lanes as aplied to us.
Does that mean we try and throw the ball against Oregon, not so much. Still need the coaches to tweak the offense a bit, to open holes again for the running game. Better execution and effort from the five will be key along with playcalling/decision making on how Oregon plans to disrupt this.
BUT, if they do stack the box, line up outside and close we do need receivers to get open in the middle of the field. This has to be exploited and does require our OL to pass block for a 3 step drop, or a few seconds for a shotgun snap. Again, I would feel better with a healthy Prince, but since thats not a real viable option, it falls onto the OL to establish the tempo of the game.
Our goal should be a tired oregon D by the 3rd, not the other way around. I’m not holding my breath that we’re actually going to do this, Oregon is a very good team. But, it does give us the best chance to win. Filthy Five, go kick some Beaver ass!!!!!!!
TEs need to be able to give us an outlet and keep the LBs honest...
by britishbruin on Oct 15, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Does that TE exist?
seems like Fauria is the only one with hands but according to N and others, he can’t block.
Very good point.
TE releasing into the open areas in the middle are key.
Is the Writing on the Wall?
My question, and it may not have an answer. Is our coaching staff committed to the Pistol long term? Was it implemented just to overcome our deficiencies of this year? If we are to run the pistol in years to come we need the best qb to run that system. It seems with the recruitment of Brett Hundley that we are moving towards more athletic qb’s. I have to admit that I have not seen practices, but if we are committed to this system, it seems like Darius Bell would be the natural choice to be given a chance at qb. If Pistol is our future than the writing is on the wall that most likely RB and Crissman will be transferring out. I was very frustrated with all the vanilla offensive run schemes last week. 03rd and 9 has done a great job of listing all the options that we have with this offense. Seems like FB in motion creating a triple option play would have been a great counter to Cal’s stacking the box. But with his injury limitations, Prince could not pull that off. I believe Bell could. And contrary to popular belief, we dont need to get a certain amount of passing yards. Truly using all the plays and sets of the pistol, we could gain 300+ yards a game, every game and win.
There's no doubt Prince has great heart.
But he hasn’t looked mobile all year. I wonder if that knee is also affecting his passing timing.
I understand that our coaches are the pros, and they know better than anyone else who’s distinguishing himself in practice, and I know that they’re going to red-shrt Darius Bell. But still . . . we need something and we’ve had “a star is born” moments before. Wasn’t CRN involved in one of them?
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