2010-11 UCLA Hoops: Keeping PG Expectations in Check
by Nestor on Oct 21, 2010 4:18 AM PDT
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PrintI don't recall as bad as stretch we have had in both UCLA football and basketball compared to what we have experienced in last couple of years. Given the roller coaster first half to the football season, it is understandable if many are already looking forward to hoops. People here are desperate about wanting to feel good about something.
Given the fact that we are not going to have a certain forward debasing the UCLA uniform night in and night out this season already projects towards some form improvement due to the old classic addition by subtraction theory. However, before anyone gets their hopes high a little too much based on (Coach Howland's excited tweet(s) or early season reports), I would strongly recommend everyone keeps their expectations guarded.
Our team this season is not going to make any kind of dramatic improvement if we don't see any upgrade in our PG performance (and it has been troubling to see UCLA not bringing in any top notch pg into this year's recruiting class). While I have not given up on Jerime Anderson, I think it would be extremely prudent for everyone to keep their expectations re. Lazeric Jones in check. Note the following comment from Tyler Honeycutt on the difference between Jerime Anderson and Lazeric Jones (emphasis added):
"It's kind of different, but it's similar the same way. Jerime is the smarter in terms of turnovers. That's one thing coach doesn't like. Even if he might see a play, he might not react on it. With Zeke, he's getting into it. He's new to everything so he's learning how the bigs are hedging the ball screens, how he's supposed to read it. Once he gets the hang of it, his turnovers in practice will go down."
Uhm. Yikes.
So yeah, keep the expectations in check. I would also suggestion people who have made a habit out of attacking Jerime Anderson and giving up on him, to wish him the best and hope he gets it together after flailing away in his first two years in Westwood.
I think if UCLA basketball is going to take a step forward it will have to start with leadership and dependable games from Honeycutt, Malcolm Lee. They are also going to need a redeeming season from Jerime Anderson, so that he can recapture the same performance that caught the eyes of coaches like Kerry Keating - a recruiter/assistant we miss dearly - when he came out of high school. Hopefully Jones is going to get it together too - eventually - but it would be smart if people keep their expectations in check for some guy who was playing in JC last season.
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Agreed
Expecting too much from Anderson or Jones would not be smart, and when somebody is described as being behind Anderson in terms of turnovers, it certainly doesn’t inspire confidence.
That being said, I think we’ll only need solid, not spectacular, guard play to do well in league this season. Only Washington and Arizona (maybe WSU) really have guards that scare me. Gone are the crafty veteran guards like Rochestie, Glasser, and even Gerrity (not to mention Randle, who was both crafty and lightening quick) that could really take advantage of our inexperience and mental mistakes. As long as we can get solid defense (staying in front of their man) from our point guards, we can keep the opposing guards in conference in check, and then run the offense through Honeycutt if we have to.
So in summary, I agree with Nestor that we shouldn’t expect much out of our point guards, but given the weakness of the position in the Pac-10, we can still be successful as long as they play passable D and can avoid turning the ball over long enough to get it into Honeycutt’s or Lee’s hands. Our out of conference games, like Kansas, might be a different story.
Btw, expect to see some freshman getting major minutes at the point guard position for a few conference teams this season (remember the name Gary Franklin for Cal).
We're havin' too much fun today. We ain't thinkin' 'bout tomorrow.
that sounds reasonable
Note my post was in no way meant to put down Zeke Jones (and you didn’t take it that way anyway). I just think we have to be very realistic w our expectations from JC transfer.
by Nestor on Oct 20, 2010 3:55 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
we need improved production from that position
but a) that isn’t difficult, given our struggles at that position last year
and
b) having two pure point guards competing in practice can only be positive.
A situation in which JA is driven to fulfil his promise and wins the starting job, and Zeke comes in for 12-15 a game to harrass opposing point guards, seems both plausible and a major improvement. As Steve says, we don’t need to have the best PG in the league to be successful this year.
by britishbruin on Oct 20, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Judging by all the news I've read on this site
I’m guessing Matt Carlino is not being considered for the PG position? Is he red-shirting this year?
Without ever watching him play
I wouldn’t expect him to redshirt (I don’t think that even the best salesman in the world could talk somebody into graduating a year early to redshirt), but I doubt we’ll see him as the person running our offense, at least this season.
I’d expect to see him used similar to Michael Roll in 06-07: come in for a few minutes a game at the 2 to spread the floor some with his shooting. The only caveat i would add is that he might not see the floor if Tyler Lamb ends up being good enough that we just can’t justify giving any of his minutes to Carlino (a big if for a freshman).
We're havin' too much fun today. We ain't thinkin' 'bout tomorrow.
Carlino...
UCLA might go small and tinker with Smith and Stover in the game at the same time. Honeycutt, Lee, Carlino, Lamb and Anderson are all interchangeable parts at 2-3. I know that Honeycutt has the skill set to run the offense, but doubt that Ben uses him at PG. He’s naturally a 3 and will be the unquestioned best player for the Bruins this season. Hope he stays healthy. I haven’t seen Carlino play, but he’s more than a zone buster, he has a nice all around game from what all the pundits say. I don’t think he’ll redshirt.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Carlino and Stover
are the big unknowns.
Honeycutt is great and has great potential and all but is not a PG. Not sure he is a 2 either on defense. He had some trouble reaching and making dumb fouls. Could be more problematic against a quick guard type.
Pressure at the Point of Attack
That’s what Ben’s entire defense is predicated around. If you put pressure on the point of attack, which DC demonstrated so spectacularly, you force the point guard to play at your tempo. You deny lanes to the basket, and allow your wing defenders to capitalize on passing lanes. Just watch the final four years. DC/Westy/Farmar (if we were lucky) would pressure the opposing PG who would pull up his dribble drive, and often times make an ill-advised pass out to the wings or into the low post, resulting in a steal by Afflalo, LRMM, etc.
It’s easy to look at Josh “Titanic” Smith and get giddy about our prospects, but until we shore up our perimeter D, which looks promising looking at a veteran Malcolm Lee, second year Honeycutt, and Lazeric Jones or a veteran Jerime Anderson, not to mention Tyler Lamb, we will not succeed at BenBall.
Bringing in Jones, knocking JA out of his complacency, may have been one of the most cunning moves of CBH’s career. We now have a guard who can score in Lee (hopefully like he did against Notre Dame), a wing who might be the best player in the PAC in Honeycutt, a proven threat in Reeves, and a big-time frosh in Smith. Shore up the 1, and we have reason for optimism.
The title of your post
Got me all nostalgic about those classic Ben Ball Warriors. Good stuff OB.
by Nestor on Oct 20, 2010 5:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Slight Disagreement
I think Lee can play point guard on DEFENSE. He shut down Cal’s and league MVP PG Randall in the last game in M2M and shutdown AZ’s Senior Wise early on when we were still M2M. ML can play the position on D. (Not on offense.)
Thus if a much improved JA is the starter at PG, he does not have to be a elite defender. He does have to be good enough to cover the other team’s off guard or PG, whichever is weaker.
Harder to Guard the Point or the SG?
If it’s more fatiguing to guard the point, ML might wear out his legs on defense at the expense of his offense. And if he’s going to be our primary outside threat, that might make us easier to defend by packing in a zone. Tradeoffs, I guess.
Yes Generally But
ML is our best M2M defender. I bet he guards the other teams best offensive player from 1-3. I could see ML on a small forward. He is our stopper.
I am not sure he is our best outside threat but as long as he is not playing PG, I think he will be okay.
Yup
Howland used AA and RW as his lead defensive stoppers who played that role brilliantly. Howland envisioned Jrue Holiday would do the same but he was inconsistent and whined publicly when he was benched after not Ding up (the game against WSU at Pauley was the most glaring example). I definitely think Lee has the potential to emerge as that defensive stopper. He has shown flashes of it. Last year he was setback due to his injuries. Hope it happens this year.
Frankly...
Losing Dragovic, Roll and Keefe on the defensive end is addition by subtraction. Those guys were all decent players, but limited in space (M2M defense). I think having a defensive minded center in Stover will only help whatever growing pains Smith has protecting the rim. Honeycutt and Lee’s length and athleticism make them natural defenders. I still see Lane and Nelson having some trouble defending an undersized 4, but overall I think this years team will have the depth and enough quickness to play much better than the last years squad.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Stover and Keefe
I don’t think that is a fair knock on Keefe. He was a decent defender, better then Nelson, which is why he started over Nelson. He made some mistakes but I think he was a okay to good M2M defender. You are right on MR and Drago.
I am not sure what to make of Stover. I am a fan of small rotations when the PAC 10 season starts. (As generally CBH is, as was Harrick and Wooden.) That would mean Lane and Stover battle out to be the “back up big spot” when we go to an 8 man rotation. Could see situations where either one does not get many minutes when PAC 10 starts.
It may come as a surprise to some
that Jerime Anderson actually averaged fewer turnovers per minute than Jerome Randle, Venoy Overton and Klay Thompson last year. I’m not saying he was where we needed him to be but I would suggest that some of his egregious offenses (getting picked while looking to CBH for instructions) cloud our memories of his overall performance.
I would also note that JA got significantly better in the turnover per minute department from his first year (where he led the league in that department) to his second. If he makes the same gain this year relative to his numbers last year, he should actually be one of the top pgs in the Pac 10 in terms of turnovers rate.
Might be Misleading
Anderson’s turnover per minute may be lower, but his handling of the game was largely what caused the majority of Bruin headaches (at least my own). He seemed woefully unaware of his surroundings, timid, tentative, and terrified. He had none of the swagger of Westbrook or Farmar, and none of the ice-veined determination of DC or Afflalo. He looked physically and mentally overmatched.
Don’t get me wrong, i touted the Fantastic four up and down the campus. I really hope Jerime has found his killer instinct, can actually utilize what I though was a very nice dribble drive, and learned to manage the game and execute CBH’s offense. If he can’t, Lazeric Jones will take his spot and not give it another thought. Toughness, defensive tenacity, and execution are the hallmarks of BenBall. Jerime needs to catch up on all three. Here’s hoping he does!
Agree on all points
I was just responding to the original post that seemed to suggest that JA turned the ball over at an astronomical rate.
Actually the title of Nestor's Post is important
Jones and/or Anderson are not the second coming of Westbrook, DC, JF, etc. Shoot they are not even Holiday.
But they don’t have to JF and be the offensive leader. They have to be good defenders to let us play M2M and they have to be competent point guards to let the other guys work on offense. An outside shot would be a great bonus because of the make up of the team but scoring and leadership are not going to happen from PG this year and CBH should know it.
If you want a remake of a past bruin, personally, I am hoping that Jones is the second coming of Cameron Dollar.
Defensive Tenacity is Key
I almost could have lived with the rest if only JA had been competent on defense. If you look at his offensive numbers (outside of his .583 FT % which is just unacceptable for a PG), while hardly stellar, they were certainly adequate.
Well, it is a little too soon for me
to switch gears from dread about football to serious concern about point guard play, but, while we’re on the subject, let me say that I thought JA showed some real signs of improvement towards the end of last season and that Jones, while undeniably a JC transfer with a lot of adjusting to do, was not selected at random. How good will they be?I don’t know, but better than last year, I think.
I don't think its too much to expect to win the Pac-10
If simply because the Pac-10 is extremely weak. We were in the mix to win it last year, and our team should be improved over last year. Cal lost its entire team. Only Washington should pose any real threat.
I've posted this before,
but Arizona will, in my opinion, the favorite to win the conference. With Lamont Jones, Derrick Williams, and a strong veteran supporting cast they will be tough. Same goes for Washington State with Klay Thompson, DeAngelo Casto, and Reggie Moore. We should certainly be in the mix, and, in fact, when its all said and done, I think we will end up on top, but too much has to come together for us to go into the season expecting a Pac-10 championship. Uncertain guard play, true freshman playing major minutes, and nothing but reports of a strong summer leaves too much up to chance.
We're havin' too much fun today. We ain't thinkin' 'bout tomorrow.
by Steve Bruin on Oct 21, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I think UW has to be a favorite
Why we worry about our point guards they have an embarrassment of riches at point. Isiah Thomas, Grady, and Overton (maybe the best defender on ball in the conference) are all very good.
While, I am pumped for this year, I think UW has to be the favorite to win the conference.
A couple observations – Without a consistent three point shooter on the roster it will be important for the Bruins to create turnovers and easy offense from defensive ball pressure – Zeke is the more physical defender. UCLA has two front court players adept at moving the ball in Honeycutt and Smith, Lee is a willing passer as well and will play more freely off the ball. It would surprise me very little if Howland starts Zeke and uses JA off the bench at both guard spots until Lamb is ready for his minutes. Having Smith in the middle will help this team tremendously. I’m optomistic going into this season.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
JA as a 2
I actually like that. As others have mentioned JA showed flashes of being good on offense. He just seemingly got overwhelmed at point. I think it makes some sense and JA is technically our best returning three shooter.
That said, if Lamb can play 2 and shoot outside, there may not be enough minutes for JA at 2. The wild card and big unknown is Carlino. He may not play at all but he is the only proven outsider shooter, albeit in high school. How Carlino is at everything else is a bigger question.
"only proven outsider shooter"
So were Crispin, Brandon Lloyd and Ragovic before they came into UCLA. I don’t care much about guys who come into program as “shooting specialists.” And Michael Roll was a different case because he also came in with the reputation of being a fundamentally sound and extremely coachable student athlete.
Agree
I am saying that Carlino has to prove EVERYTHING else before he plays, if at all. I hope he is not a Brandon Lloyd type but, as a coach’s son, I have some hope that he can be a Michael Roll type that is “fundamentally sound.”
But, at this point, we just don’t know. He is most ah “interesting” new recruit.
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