Closer Look @Recruiting Rankings
by BlueReign on Oct 25, 2010 4:02 AM PDT
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PrintBumped. GO BRUINS. -N
Rankings are important to a certain extent. We’ve recruited very well for many, many years. The talent that has been brought into the program strictly from a rankings perspective has been very good.
IMO, the current issues we’re facing are due to:
1) Failure to develop the talent once in the program
2) Failure in the identification/evaluation of talent
3) As Ty mentioned, although the classes may have been well ranked, they were unbalanced classes and/or did not address pressing needs within our program.
4) The CTS Effect (This is a disease that we’re still suffering from)
Also, I agree with bruinbunz: Good Lines + Capable QB = Success. IMO, you cannot fail in this department but that’s exactly what we as a program have done. We’ve had our tough breaks but that doesn’t excuse the length of time it is taking to rectify this. Our glaring recruiting failures are in 3 areas (QB, OL & DL):
This is our QB class by year:
2005 – Ben Olsen and Rasshan
2006 – None
2007 – Forcier
2008 – Prince, Crissman and Kraft (JC)
2009 – Brehaut
2010 – Bell
I hailed the signing of Big Ben just like everyone else. However, Ben was a godsend (no pun intended) and a curse. Getting Ben helped to give us a momentum boost but hurt our chances to bring in other top notch QB’s because they did not want to sit behind him. The fact that CTS would not compete in the recruiting game (Cheaty never had an issue getting stud QB in consecutive seasons) also was quite damaging. Thus, we needed to hit a homerun with Big Ben but we all know how that turned out.
Personally, I attribute Big Ben not living up to his hype to CTS. This goes to not only the inability to develop talent but to identify it. What do I mean? Why recruit a kid with a Howitzer for an arm to run a timing/quick strike/short passing game such as the WCO? Cowan was a warrior but he was never supposed to be a starter. We were then left with Rasshan and Forcier who are more runners than passers. These fups by CTS put us waaaay behind when it comes to solidifying the QB position.
I love KC and forever will for essentially being a crash test dummy for our program. So we’re now left with Crissman (who I think takes a medical retirement), a gimpy KP, an inexperienced RB and a JC transfer in Bell. I think Hundlley has tremendous potential but if UCLA is to experience any success next year, we need to figure out in the next 5 games, who (from the incumbents) is going to lead this program.
I wrote some stuff about our DL in response to a question posed by Bellerophon in this thread.
Below is our OL class. I didn’t include the 2010 class since it’s too soon to determine how they’ll impact the program.
2006 OL: Kia, Tevaga, Bennett, Sheller, Dean and Ekbatani (JC)
2007 OL: Harris
2008 OL: Bradford, Baca and Maiava (RS due to transfer)
2009 OL: X-Man, Hasiak, Abele, Capella, Tayor (JC), Williams (JC)
Our issues on the OL all stem back to the 2006 OL class. I along with others believed that class was going to fortify the OL for years to come. Afterall, this was Tom Cable’s handpicked recruits for his schemes and they came in highly touted. Cable then left and for various reasons this class never lived up to their press clippings. The recruiting misses were magnified because 1) we didn’t have a lot of talent on the OL within the program and 2) the 2007 class was very small with only Mike Harris brought in for the OL. Did we miss on this class because they were overrated or did we miss because the coaches failed to develop them. Yes, they’ve been jerked by having multiple coaches/philosophies. So was it a evaluation or development issue or even worse, both?
I agree that rankings wise, we should be a lot better. If the Northwestern, Uconn, Cincinnati, Utah’s of the world can experience success, there is no reason why we shouldn’t considering our recruiting rankings. And if it’s not an issue of talent, then you can only pinpoint the issue to lack of development.
Off Topic a bit: Talk about develpment…if anyone was watching the Mich St/NW game, there was a receiver Rashad Lawrence who kept on making catches and the announcers said he was a FR. I looked him up and lookie-lookie, he is a True FR, 2 Star Recruit. Now…how come our more highly touted guys can’t produce nor play like him? Hmmm….
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Agree with everything you wrote
One add/modification to bruinbunz’s equation. Not just “capable” QBs but healthy QBs. I have a feeling UCLA’s first season under CRN would be different if we had a healthy Cowan through the entire season.
Healthy Cowan
You’re right about Cowan — we probably pull out both U of A and Fresno State games at the Bowl — but still that leaves a 6-6 tally and perhaps a bottom-of-the-barrell bowl game.
We need much, much better results. . . .
Yes, we need much much better results
However, it was not the current coaching staff’s fault that the recruiting was dumped into gutter. People are now realizing what we meant when we wrote Dorrel set back this program by almost a decade.
But
We do need to see some progress with CRN recruits, what would you say if our OL still looked like crap during CRN’s fourth year. How much time does CRN get in correcting one of the most important aspects of a football team?
CTS and Cable destroyed our OL in a matter of what two years? &*&&%^$%&$%^&(()$%&#$^%^$*^& I’m still pissed.
Next year
We get Baca (RS JR), Maiava (RS SR) and Hasiak (RS Soph; fingers crossed he gets it together) next season. We’ll also have Harris (RS SR), Downey (RS JR), Griffiths (JR), Ward (Soph), Capella (RS Soph), Innes (RS FR) and Yandall (RS FR or Soph; don’t know if he has played). That is 10 bodies who’ve either played or had a RS year to get acclimated to Palcic and the college game.
This doesn’t include Sheller (who the staff may petition for another year), Abele (I’m just throwing him in here but IMO, he ain’t coming back), Daryl Jackson (who is enrolling in the spring) and the incoming FR.
We’re not there talent wise but there will be no excuses next season.
Oh I agree with you
In fact this year is not over either and I’d like to see improvement in our remaining 5 games as well.
We do need much better results
in the long run but you are talking about RN’s first year after Dorrell. We had no OL. 6-6 that season would have wildly exceeded anyone’s expectations.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
Agreed but one note
A lot of player development is also from player to player. So if a 4 star guy comes in and gets mentored by a current superstar, that will also increase his development in practice everyday. So with the better talent in the program for several years in a row, I think more will players will “turn out” in the 3rd/4th recruiting classes than the first two.
For example, I think with guys like Rahim Moore and Tony Die mentoring our young safeties, our highly recruited youngsafeties will turn out to be awesome.
UCLA '08
point well taken on how superstars tend to create more of the same at those positions
ie…Easley, Rogers, Washington, Turner. That is probably part of the reason that certain schools become known for certain things ie..Stanford QB’s, Penn St./Ohio St. Linebackers, UCLA point guards.
But one can’t overlook how a certain coach, and not necessarily the head coach, also developes that reputation. For instance, Penn St. all-american linebacker LaVar Arrington spoke with great reverence about former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, calling him the professor of linebackers. ‘’I got an opportunity to play for him, and to be honest with you, that’s just as legendary as playing for Joe Paterno,’’ Arrington said.
Isn’t that exactly what we hope for with CNC’s history?
There is another factor to consider
The gift of Jay Norvell. He is the guy who identified and recruited Nick Crissman while Ryan Katz badly wanted to be a Bruin. Same staff who overlooked Matt Scott. By the time Neuheisel, our desperation move (when everyone else was locked up) was to get Kevin Craft and flip Prince (who was hurt and was flippable because he knew Ty Willingham was going to get one more hopeless year at UDub).
Yup
I’d take both Katz and Scott right now. Sometimes coaches get enamored with the measureables and forget to just simply determine if they are gamers. Imagine if MJD, Sproles, Ray Rice or Quizz never got to their respective campuses due to “size”?
I want to add something about recruiting.
I know it’s been said before, but a recruiting ranking does not always equal potential. There are plenty of guys that are men among boys when playing in High School that then turn into kids when playing against real men. Bluereign spoke to the need of coaches to identify who the real gems are when recruiting, and not just go after the multi star kids.
Then there is the other kind of kid out there, who has all the physical attributes needed to succeed at this level, and simply lack the heart. And, that also falls upon the coaches to identify the real deals out there.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
Regarding development
If you want to be known as a guy that can develop talent, your best bet is to recruit hard workers. You don’t have to look any further than Ben Ball to realize that the same coach using the same teaching methods can get dramatically different results from kids in terms of development.
That's tougher than it sounds
you can see how someone plays in a game, but how do you evaluate their work ethic without spending a ton of time with them? It’s not like you can ask other people, “hey, does that guy work hard?”, you won’t exactly get the most objective answers there.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
That's why you develop relationships with HS coaches
and that is why being in So Cal could be a huge advantage for UCLA. We can build rapport with them and scout a lot of local players
by KnudsenRockne on Oct 25, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
does UCLA interest inflate rankings?
I understand in various sports with various teams, a particular school expressing interest in a player may inflate their ranking – ie ratings folks tend to look for more positives in an unheralded DL prospect who has interest from Alabama than the same prospect who has interest from Alabama-Birmingham.
I am guessing that there could also be an effect that if we (with our local proximity and presumed expertise) pick someone out from the SoCal talent base, a lot of other teams will then be looking at the same guy. I’m guessing the same is not true if (say) Arizona State recruits a SoCal kid.
Anyway, this is just to say that it’s possible our rankings get inflated compared with other Pac-10 teams not named $c.
Another relevant concern voiced by others is there is no way of projecting how a guy will grow. Someone might look like a man among boys as a 260 lb 17 year old and then not grow at all and be an undersized backup lineman for 4 years in college. Finding the guys who are still growing (physically, or in ability) seems to be a key, and not necessarily something we have done. (this also ties in to the comments about ‘coaching a kid up’ – if players don’t much improve from signing day to graduation, this is presumably a function both of coaches and of whether the kid had already reached their peak at age 18)
Physical and Mental Growth
continue through college years and peak later. The mental growth I’m talking about is not the same as maturity – men are better able to make quick decisions in their late twenties than they are in their early twenties.
Try and predict that!
by KnudsenRockne on Oct 25, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Skill at EA Sports NCAA Football
should be a huge predictor. If they rock at that, you KNOW they’ll rock on the field. Alterraun Verner proves this. If they are 2 star, but good at EA Sports NCAA football, they should be bumped up to 4 star at least.
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