Qs Re. Justifications for Football Coaches Using "Prevent Defense"
by Nestor on Oct 6, 2010 2:18 PM PDT
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PrintHave been meaning to pose this question for everyone here for a while. So all of us watched in horror last Saturday when Chuck Bullough dialed up the classic "prevent defense" towards the end of first half only to see the Cougars go 70 yards in 40 seconds, scoring a TD right before the half. If anyone needs a visual reminder on how a prevent defense "works" there is always this:
I guess the idea here is to "prevent" the big plays. Yet we have seen time after time, the offense takes advantage of the old "take what the defense gives ya" cliché and promptly move the ball to get themselves in scoring position. At least from my vantage point it seems like it's usually the defense that ends up getting screwed in this position time after time after letting the O march down the field.
So my question for all X and O junkies is that why do coaches resort to it? To be fair to Bullough it seemed like he didn't use prevent defense against Tennessee in Knoxville when he was bringing pressure till the very end (or was that just Brian Price wrecking havoc?).
Anyway, it appears is this is one of those situations where if there were any real statistics available it would really help everyone understand why coaches resort to this strategy? Are there numbers and study that support conventional coaching wisdom of sticking with prevent defense? This seems to be a classic case where it would be very interesting if there was an understanding based on probability and real statistics on why coaches keep going to this strategy?
Anyone have thoughts or numbers to share?
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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I don't think it's an Xs and Os issue.
I think it’s a coaching mentality. It’s the same reason why coaches almost always take the more conservative approach on fourth down (on fourth and a foot, you punt.) And the reason for this is that such decisions will earn the least amount of criticism. And you see the result.
Remember Boise State against OU? There was no conservative thinking there. For the geezers, remember Tommy Prothro? Punting on third down. Going for it on fourth down? Scoring first in the Rose Bowl against #1 MSU and then doing on on-sides kick immediately thereafter?
I would like to have a coach who is a little more of a gambler. I can live with the failures on fourth and one at our thirty. I can live with the fake punt that doesn’t work. But I can’t live with the conservative (bend but don’t break, for God’s sake, don’t give up a long pass, and hey, let’s only rush one guy) mentality that some coaches exhibit.
As I recall, there was a guy whose name escapes me (after Coach Toledo, before Coach Neuheisel) who thought the conservative approach was the best approach. To me, it is a – get ready for a very picturesque figure of speech – swirling vortex pulling the coach inexorably into the black hole of mediocrity. (Wow. That was good!)
Yeah, I get that
However, there are lot of stats to back up the point that it really pays off to go for it on 4th and short situations (at times). I haven’t seen any stats like that wrt to prevent defense though. I wish there were. It drives me crazy and I wish there were ways to point this out to coaches based on numbers and real game data points (instead of the gut feelings we all have).
I was in South Bend for that game
and it was a killer, but at least Walker learned from it. You didn’t see the prevent doom us again after that. That’s the biggest thing I’m waiting to see from Bullough. This is his first DC job and he’s going to make mistakes, but don’t make them two, three and four times over.
Two roads diverged in a wood and I – I tweeted my followers to ask which I should take
Absolutely
that’s why they tried to go with the screen, which McPick read beautifully.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
This clip ...
doesn’t have the drive, but it happens to have the play right before McNeal’s pick. (I assume it was right before, if not, it was just about right before).
Looking at it, I wouldn’t say we were in a prevent, but we only rushed four. We might have only rushed three as one of the linemen dropped into coverage and it looks like we were only rushing three.
I think the key was that Walker mixed it up on that drive. Everyone in coverage on one play and blitzing on another. Booty was not able to anticipate what was coming.
start looking right around the 2:10 mark
You don't need to bring heat on every play
If you do you will get burned by that too. You need to be able to mix it up, not just between blitzing and rushing four, but also your coverages and where the blitzes are coming from. Even on that last drive you can see us in cover three then in man. We also mixed up the coverage of our linebackers.
Two roads diverged in a wood and I – I tweeted my followers to ask which I should take
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Oct 6, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
this is true
there are basically two ways to do it. one, be so good at what you do that it does not matter if the opponent knows what is coming; two, mix it up, disguise your play, do things they haven’t seen, so that the opponent has no clue what is coming. If they know what is coming, they can try to exploit holes in it. if they do not, they have to guess.
by Captain Leebeard on Oct 7, 2010 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I have the audio of that drive
of the whole game actually. Can’t say that the commentary would be as insightful as watching, but if it would help…
formerly bruinhoo
Not sure I'd call is a screen Tass ...
looking at the video it was more of a throw into the flat. I think that might be Jarrett (#2) who goes in motion, then does a little down and out and McNeal gets into the passing lane.
Anyway, that’s a minor point, we were definitely bringing the rush and not in a prevent at that point. It almost looks like McNeal was blitzing, then he stopped or pulled up.
The funny thing about the video in relation to this thread is that the color commentator specifically says that UCLA got it done against SC, but not in South Bend. Which is basically what we just concluded here.
Not sure how to embed a video into a comment, but here is the link:
Ok
I couldn’t remember who the intended receiver was, but I knew that it was more of a dump off and that Eric was blitzing before he stopped. That was such a heads up play, and I remember him saying that he suddenly remembered the film in the middle of his rush and stopped short to cover that play.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
I'm not sure it was Jarrett ...
I just think DJ was #2. Who knows, those tall SC receivers all run together and I’m too lazy to look up their 2006 roster.
You and I have the same recollection. I also remember Pete Carroll whining about how McNeal wasn’t supposed to be there. I think the SC coaches had scouted us and knew McNeal was coming off the edge there. But, as you said, McNeal recalled something from the film and pulled up. Incredibly heads up play.
I remember Walker saying something like
“I was going to blitz on the next play”…
Prevent Defense
What detractors of the prevent defense fail to realize is that the offense is not running its normal offense. Rather, you know the offense is trying to go downfield. Knowing this, the prevent defense is not an unreasonable strategy.
I don't agree
the less time the QB has to throw, the less time the WRs have to get downfield AND get open.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
You don't need more people back,
You have your DB’s give a little more cushion and keep the play in front of them and then blitz like there no tomorrow. (mixing it up of course).
The opposite has brought us the spread and other initially exotic offenses
Why run a “normal” offense if your 2 minute offense scores so often….run that more. The offensive side has found that to be true and has evolved the spread and other wide open offenses.
Defenses, in this sense, have not kept up.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Oct 7, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Diversity of attack
I tend to think that d coordinators use the prevent defense in their rotation because they cant predictably blitz every down. An 5 to 6 man rush can be beaten with screens and other plays consistently if an offense knows its coming every play. That being said, I completely agree that the base 3 to 4 man rush is called way too often and most d coordinators arent close to being at risk of predictability. I also think that the prevent is more risky than a heavy rush because if the 3 ot 4 guys dont get pressure, it ultimately becomes a 7 on 7 drill and, if anyone has been to a practice, 7 on 7 is typically dominated by offenses.
prevent defense..
only thing it prevents is your team from winning
It works a little better in the pros ...
because in addition to preventing big plays, it also theoretically burns up time because all those short plays take longer to get down the field.
In college, though, the clock stops on first downs so it doesn’t burn time like it might in the NFL. A good college team can set up and get off a play while the chains are moving.
And by good college team I mean any team not coached by Les Miles.
Redskins' DC
I have seen Jim Haslett bringing it couple of times this year (notably during first win against the Cowboys) and getting results. That got me wondering if there were numbers anywhere that shows what the coaches’ are thinking. Are they using the strategy bc they know its suppose to work theoretically or do they have numbers on their teams’ defensive tendencies?
by Nestor on Oct 6, 2010 3:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I don't know one way or the other ...
I read Football Outisders and Smart Football on the web sometimes, but I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that. Doesn’t mean they haven’t looked at it, but I just don’t remember it. Did a quick search of those sites and didn’t see anything relevant.
I didn’t see anything but the end of that Cowboys game (who gets married on the NFL opening day?), so I can’t comment.
I’m not even sure if college and NFL DCs call it “prevent.” Most likely it’s “Cover 4” or “Quarters” or something like that. So maybe it would be hard to quantify as there are probably a few sets that make up “prevent.”
My own take is that the prevent defense gets carved up when it’s played the same way every down. There is nothing wrong with dropping into Cover 4 to prevent a big play, the mistake is when you use it five plays in a row. The QB has too much time to throw and guys get open. If you mix up the pass rush with stunts and throw in a blitz, your prevent defense seems to be more effective.
Maybe that’s what Haslett did against the Cowboys? It’s not clear to me how well Haslett actually defended Dallas in that game, because the game ended with Dallas inside the 10 yard line. The loss was due to a stupid penalty as much as anything Washington did. But, like I said, I didn’t see the game until the final plays so I’m guessing there were a few plays where WASH was effective on that drive by rushing the QB hard.
The truth is, the prevent loses games in the NFL, too. In my above post, I just noted that in addition to the big play thing, NFL teams use it to try and burn clock. New England did that against Miami this week. The Pats got up big, then sat back and forced Miami to run short passes and even run the ball. The Dolphins picked up yards, but their drives took forever. (They also threw some picks into that coverage, including the one y Jarrad Page.)
+1
“My own take is that the prevent defense gets carved up when it’s played the same way every down. There is nothing wrong with dropping into Cover 4 to prevent a big play, the mistake is when you use it five plays in a row. The QB has too much time to throw and guys get open. If you mix up the pass rush with stunts and throw in a blitz, your prevent defense seems to be more effective.”
Yup, still comes down to variation, execution and playcalling.
Can't we get Bullough on this dialog.
Nestor, could you get Bulloug to explain the prevent defense. Maybe he could teach us something we don’t know. You know he is at a school of higher learning.
How about teaching us. Think of all the people he could reach on this site, which could be called his graduate football student body (GFSB) or the “Preventables”.
I kind of wish the prevent defense meant no penalties by the defense. Don’t forget that “hands to the face” penalty during the last drive by WSU at the end of the first half, UGH.. Also, we always get those “pass interference” penalties. UGH,UGH!
I am guessing you were joking a bit
But something like that would be really cool if Bullough explained his strategic thinking beyond the usual coach speak.
by Nestor on Oct 6, 2010 3:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I am definitely not joking.
What a better way to get both sides to learn something. I agree with sponkey21 below, I hate the prevent defense. Where or where did Bullough learn it? Is there a book on the subject? Did he learn about from some coach? The prevent defense must have some do’s and don’ts, and why do we see it so much when so much of the evidence says don’t? I bet when coaches learned about the prevent defense they didn’t take a written exam on the subject. If they did I am sure they would have flunked.
Thinking back about it, how long has the prevent defense been with us? Did it get started in the pros? I could swear I had seen it back in the 50’s in the NFL. I don’t think the strategy has been improved in the last 50 to 60 years. With regard to the Bruins, maybe sometimes the strategy might be OK (not good), but the personnel doesn’t have the ability to do it correctly. I think a quarterback with an accurate arm and good receivers can easily beat it. Especially when the quarterback is not under pressure. Ditto, the end of the first half with WSU.
You can blame Bullough for a lot of things
like borderline predictability (on the prevent side!), poor adjustments, etc., but you can’t blame him for SPTRs. The facemask call was BS. At least one (if not both) of the PI calls were BS. You wonder why Tuel threw way downfield so often…I know: because more often than not, the SPTRs would give him a PI call when he/the receiver screwed up.
by b d on Oct 6, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Never ever ever do it
If you are protecting a lead, just do exactly what got you that lead in the first place! I wish I could punch any coach in the face when they go to prevent. I HATE it. I don’t like to say so with such vitriol, but man does it bother me.
The point and purpose of the prevent defense
is to keep from getting burned by a hail mary. That’s it. So, theoretically it should only ever be used on the last play of the game when the opponent has no choice but to ‘put up a prayer.’
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
You're all wrong
The prevent, soft-ass coverage scheme is the perfect defense. In fact, you really only need to rush one guy and have the rest of the line drop into coverage.
You just need to have Blake Arnet in there as your one pass rusher. He’ll sack the QB every time.
I hear he’s one of the top 20 or 30 football players of all time, not to mention he hits 50% from beyond the arc.
by Bellerophon on Oct 6, 2010 7:33 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
so...
Chuck Norris played Blake Arnet in one-on-one and Blake Arnet WON
Troy is burning
by bruinbasketball on Oct 6, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
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