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Same Bad Movie? Concerns About 2011 UCLA Football Season

Bumped. -BN

CPOBruin did a great job on his post about the possibilities of the depth chart for next year.  I agree with most everything he wrote, but I responded that I am not so optimistic because I have failed to see CRN and staff play the right guys, or hold any of the players accountable for shoddy play and laziness or stupidity on the field.  I was asked by a few people to fanpost my response. So here is what I wrote in response to him:

My biggest gripe is that CRN and staff have never shown that they will play the better guy, or the guy that is producing. Here are five examples:

Example #1: Rosario and Embree both had subpar years and never ran good routes and dropped passes from the opening snap against Kansas State. In the middle of the year when Marvray and Carrol (and even Smith) started to produce, the majority of snaps still went to Rosario and Embree, even though they continued to drop balls, not be aggressive to the ball, and run crappy routes.

Example #2: Josh Smith was one of the best return men in college football when at Colorado. He comes to UCLA and suddenly he can’t catch a punt? Come on. To make matters worse, they put Embree, our possession receiver who has no chance of breaking off a punt return back to retun punts? Ridiculous. Put someone back their with some burners. If Smith isn’t it, coach up Marvray (he later did a few), Carrol, or Thigpen to do it … not Embree.

Example #3: When I was at the Arizona game it was painfully obvious that Steve Sloan (who was in for Larimore) was painfully slow to the ball and not a good tackler. He got hurt and in came Zumwalt, who was everything Sloan wasn’t.  Zumwalt was a stud in the middle. Why wasn’t he playing earlier? Because the coaches did a poor job and seemed to just give the position to Sloan because he was next in line.

Example #4: The coaches did a very poor job in regards to the quarterback position. Why wasn’t Brehaut developed more when it was obvious to everyone that Prince wasn’t ready on many occasions because of injury? That was baffling. Prince didn’t even practice at times during the week and still played. If you are Joe Montana you get that type of treatment. If you are Kevin Prince, you ride the bench until healthy. Also, I posted before the beginning of the season that Prince would get hurt. It isn’t his fault, but he is injury prone. He sat out his senior year at Crespi HS with a knee injury and has missed many games at UCLA with injuries.

Example #5: The way Malcolm Jones was used. Either play the guy or redshirt him. Didn’t make sense.

Which brings me to my next point. Do we really have a true competition at positions? I don’t think so. 

Star-divide

I know two players personally on the team who say that the belief within the program is that certain guys will play regardless of their effort or ability in practice. The way that CRN has ran his program, I see no way the following:

  1. James and Jones ahead of Coleman: No way that Coleman is #4 on the depth chart behind James and Jones. While maybe he should be, it won’t happen. CRN has proved that he likes Coleman, and James and Jones can turn into Adrian Peterson and it won’t matter. Coleman will play over them.

  2. Carroll/Marvray over Embree/Rosario: No way that Carrol and Marvray are ahead of Embree and Rosario on the depth chart. Both those two gave substandard efforts this year and still played ahead of more reliable, harder working players. Rosario and Embree will be starting against Houston next year at Houston to open the season. While maybe they shouldn’t be, they will. CRN has proven that. Heck, Carrol and Marvray can turn into Andre Johnson and it won’t matter, Embree and Rosario will play over them.

  3. Olaniyan over Westgate: While Olaniyan may be ripping it up in practice with the scout squad, and may rip it up all spring, their is no way that he plays over Bullough’s boy, Sean Westgate. I love Westgate. I love his effort and his heart. A Bruin all the way. But he is severely limited and is just too small to take on Offensive Lineman, let alone tougher-than-shit fullbacks coming at him one-on-one through the hole. His effort this year, while honorable, was not that of a quality Pac-10 linebacker. Olaniyan has All-Pac 10 written all over him, and has an incredible future but it won’t be this year. Heck, he can turn into Ray Lewis and it won’t matter.  Westgate will play over him because that is the way that it works in our program.

  4. Zumwalt and Larimore together:  While it seems reasonable that Larimore and Zumwalt must be in the lineup together, has history shown us that will happen? Nope. It’ll probably end up being Larimore as the #1, followed by Zumwalt, followed by Sloan. While CPO is correct that he must be on the field with Larimore to create an incredible inside duo unless Zumwalt turns into Lawrence Taylor, it ain’t gonna happen. Westgate will be playing over him, or someone else may be. Hey, on the bright site, we’ll have a great backup at MIKE if Larimore gets hurt again.

  5. Realistically looking beyond Prince: Prince will be starting. The reports out of camp will be that Chow wants Prince to start. I don’t know, maybe so he can get some free dental work or something. The reports will be that Prince has worked hard in the weightroom and is throwing the ball better than he has since his Pop Warner days. Everyone will forget about his shortcomings (injury prone, not accurate, etc.) and they will anoint him the next Matt Leinart. Brehaut, who should be starting, and Hundley, who should be the backup, will get minimal time until Prince gets hurt again. Heck, Brehaut could become the next Drew Brees and it still won’t matter … Prince will be starting because that is the way it works at UCLA.

Sorry to be so negative, but as they say, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it or something like that. If everything CPO projects in his discussion of depth chart proves to be true, then I have no doubt we will have a great year. I have just seen this movie too many times and I know the ending already. I don’t want to watch it again. I just can’t do it.

I hope to hell I am wrong and that CRN finds his balls and puts the right people in the right positions. If he was smart, he would pull all his players, and all his coaches, into a meeting room and tell them that nobody’s job is safe, including his, and the best players will play and that the best coaches will continue to coach. PERIOD!! When that happens, and only when that happens, will we win next year. However, I ask you, has anything in this program the past three years indicated to you that that will happen? I didn’t think so.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Outstanding!

I so agree on the malcolm Jones point! They wasted a year of growth and eligibility with this kid. I remember going to practices under CTD and they used to hang a banner that said players make plays!
Well you have to have talent to make a play and you cant make em from the bench. The best talent should see the field!

"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.

by TheUclan on Dec 8, 2010 7:14 PM PST reply actions  

Didn't develop Brehaut enough?

Didn’t Brehaut get most of the reps in Summer/Fall camp due to Prince’s pulled back muscle?
How much more development could they have invested into a second string quarterback?
And many here criticized CRN & CNC for playing Prince when they’d spent more time developing Brehaut but after seeing some of Brehaut’s youthful mistakes in judgment I think we can now see what CRN & CNC could see all along.

Sure the coaches made some mistakes (and there were some huge ones on the Defensive side) but there is more to this than that.

by KnudsenRockne on Dec 8, 2010 7:24 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting...

analysis on the competition within the team. It is pretty black and white from the outside looking in but there are other factors involved. Marvray and Smith might have been hurt by their habits off of the field? Some of these guys are very talented but aren’t as focused as they should be when it comes down to managing their entire college experience…if you get my drift.

CRN has mentioned that Brehaut needs to get more serious about the quarterback position if he wants to continue to develop (whatever that means?).

Most of us are frustrated at the poor execution and lack of attention to detail on the football team. Randall Carroll is a speed burner but he runs very poor routes and doesn’t adjust to the ball very well. He gave up on a deep ball that cost us an interception against sc. It made Brehaut look bad but it was Carroll’s fault. These are the kinds of things that drive us crazy.

Jordon James is legit and I think he is going to be a great back at UCLA. I would move Malcolm Jones and Anthony Barr to defense.

Deitrich Riley is also going to be a great safety. Dalton Hilliard and Deitrich Riley should be our starters next year.

Oh and scrap the pistol. CRN should stick to a pro set offense. He knows that offense much better than the pistol and most players would rather play in that type of offense.

by garlon on Dec 8, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

i like that thought!

Jones and Barr would increase out team speed at linebacker and give us incredible depth.

"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.

by TheUclan on Dec 9, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Development comes with experience

They are not mutually exclusive. Prince should not have started while still recovering from injury just to avoid youthful mistakes, that’s demoralizing to the substitute player, and dangerous for the injured player, talk about some mistakes being made. There must be a balance between the cost./benefit of using an unpracticed, injured player and the disruption it can cause, vs. youthful mistakes of a less developed, yet practiced player. I’d risk the youthful mistakes, knowing well with more experience, development, those mistakes will taper down. Besides the offense looks more dynamic with RB in there even though he was shackled by coach’s mistrust and conservative play calling. I don’t know if RB is the answer in the long run but he should have been the answer since the get-go.

by Angelitos on Dec 9, 2010 7:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Barr & Presley ???

I was personally baffled with what they were trying to do with Barr – 6-5 228, and they seemed want to have him run pass patterns from the slot…..Since they seemed to give on Presley as a receiver after his drops in the K-State game, I hope they aren’t on the path to ruining another blue chip recruit by his sophomore year…..

by jkaflagg on Dec 8, 2010 10:10 PM PST reply actions  

example 4...

I think Zumwalts natural position is Sam backer , not Mike. I hope Larimore comes back 100% he is a beast ! My dream scenario is Zumwalt at Will, Larimore at Mike, Ayers at Sam, just sayin that would be sweet !

Bruin for life!!!!
You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one. - John Wooden

by g.granillo on Dec 9, 2010 6:33 AM PST reply actions  

I have been dreaming of that linebacker corps

ever since Zumwalt showed his athletic ability. I also think that with experience, he may mature into the Middle Linebacker. I really like Larimore. Ayers is the most talented, but I am shocked that he takes plays off.

by 75NatChamps on Dec 9, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

fantastic post

and I couldn’t agree more. Plenty of aspects of this team frustrated me this year, but none more so than what you highlighted…we’ve gotten 3 straight outstanding recruiting classes that increased our team athleticism by 300%…yet none of them are playing. I don’t get it.

by bucknellbruin on Dec 9, 2010 6:54 AM PST reply actions  

Not quite none

If you count JC OL transfers, 16 of the 22 starters vs USC were from those 3 classes. And you’ll notice that of the people muircoach doesn’t think will be benched but should (Coleman, Rosario, Embree, Westgate, Prince), only one isn’t from one of those 3 classes.

by SuperBruinMan on Dec 9, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Regarding Example #4 on the QB position....

I don’t get how poorly prepared everyone behind the one designated #1 often seems to be on the field since the Toledo era. I recall a winnable Cal game when we were down to J Sciarra Jr. and he appeared way out of his depth, M Moore fumbling consecutive snaps deep in Bruin territory against SUC when Toledo thought that was the appropriate time to switch QBs unexpectedly, the law firm being tossed in with ill advised plays given him against ND, and of course the back ups woes this year against Washington. All but one of these scenarios due to QB game injuries.

Its got to come down to coaching and preperation. I may not be realistic, but even if a QB hasn’t got what it takes to be the starter, coaching prep and philosophy should be such, that if he’s in uniform on the sideline during a game, he must have the mindset that he might have to go in at any time. I just cringe when I see a backup have to come in with the “deer in the headlights” look in his eyes and the coaches giving him plays seemingly not in synch with his abilities and the game situation.

by bruinhawk on Dec 9, 2010 8:15 AM PST reply actions  

Smith

From a buffs fan. Smith definitely has talent and speed, but never really fulfilled it at CU. Blame Hawkins or whatever, but example 2 surprises a bit. Doesn’t seem like he did alot this year. If used right, he is a game breaker. Hopefully he has a good Senior year just not against us

by dune1980r on Dec 9, 2010 9:40 AM PST reply actions  

totally agree

the coaches preach competition. but it’s all about seniority to them. it’s like they think they’re an established program that’s on cruise control. when you’re starting from the ground up, you have to do whatever it takes to build the program, and that’s working with what you have available.

you can tell there’s obvious tension between CRN and CNC when it came to the QBs. CRN took Brehaut out of a redshirt year to give him playtime and experience but CNC kept him on the bench. CNC, you live with Prince, you die with Prince. He’s your boy so you have to live with the consequences. Unfortunately, the rest of us did too.

I bet CRN is giving the ultimatum for CNC to go with Hundley as the starter. And if he doesn’t, he’s gone. No more development into Prince. He’ll just waste it on the bench like the past 3 years. I can understand Brehaut getting starts if Hundley was to redshirt. Brehaut actually has the ability to stay on the field and get better, unlike Prince. But at this point, Prince is just empty unfilled promises.

Malcolm Jones should’ve either been redshirted or been the #2 RB. While I totally appreciate Derrick Coleman and the adversity he’s gone through, Malcolm Jones is a better player.

it seems like at all the positions, it was the higher classmen that got the reps and the starts. only when there was injury did the young ones get in and most of them did quite well.

by dirtyvu on Dec 9, 2010 12:34 PM PST reply actions  

Derrick Coleman

Coleman ran the ball for 5.9 yards a pop this year which is good for more then half a yard better then Franklin. You can say Coleman doesn’t have the breakaway speed but does anyone remember who had the longest run of the year for us? O ya that’d be Derrick Coleman, a play which turned around the game against Wazzu. Saying MJ is better then DC is just stupid. MJ ran like a freshman, often timid and scared especially after the fumble early in the year. If DC got the carries Jetski did then he would be a 1000 yard back too. He also happens to be our best blocking back by far, no knock on Jetski but he doesn’t pack the punch to hold off blitzing LBs and DLineman all that consistently. Coleman is well deserving of the number 2 spot behind Jetski so enough with the Malcolm Jones cries

by Passionbucket on Dec 9, 2010 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

I'd say that I haven't seen Jones enough to know who is better between him and Coleman.

I also think that DC would be a monster if the line opened holes for him. Jetski was by far the better back between the two of them.

by 75NatChamps on Dec 9, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree, Passionbucket

Coleman is averaging more than 5 yds/carry for his career, there is no reason he should sit behind unproven backs. And remember, many of those yards were in short yardage situations where the box was stacked. I understand the frustration with wanting to get Jones on the field, but if you want to criticize, don’t make Coleman sit because the real problem is the system. When it became clear that running back was our strongest position and our QBs were getting injured running the ball, why didn’t we either 1) Go to some 2 back sets (it isn’t like we forgot how to run them from last year) or 2) Make a RB the motion man in the single back so we would have a legit option/better blocking from the motion man? Let’s face the facts, no one was worried us passing to the motion receiver the majority of the time anyways.

Coleman needs to be properly utilized. We shouldn’t be complaining about him taking time from Jones or James because he should be complementing those backs. This is a coaching failure not to get the most out of your back and waste a year (Jones) in the process.

by JimmyBurke on Dec 10, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

totally agree

citing Jones’ limited playing time as a knock on the coaching staff is disrespectful to the job both Franklin and Coleman did this season.

by britishbruin on Dec 10, 2010 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

A lot of this boils down to

Conservative Coaching and playing the guys who’ll make the least mistakes… There are two reasons this could be the case:

1. CRN is a Donahue disciple and playing to “keep it close into the 4th” is in his blood.

2. CRN believed that our roster didn’t have comparable talent as our opponents. This isn’t too far from the truth imo. Besides Ayers, Moore, our kickers and sometimes Jetski, a strong argument could be made that this was probably true at almost every position we fielded this year against our opponents. As such, our coaching staff thought (mistakenly) that the best way to win was to slow the game down, play the field position game, and “hope for a break” in the 4th quarter. For instance, I’ve heard the argument a lot this year that “it’s hard to go deep when your O-Line is struggling to pass cover,” or “it’s hard to go for it on 4th and 1 at your own 40 when there’s no reason to believe you’ll convert another first down thereafter,” or “it’s hard to blitz on 3rd and 6 when you’re secondary cannot pick up a simple hot route.”

Both viewpoints #1 and #2 are deplorable mindsets, but if I had to pick, I really really hope CRN’s reason was #2. This is because I hope CRN will take note of our talent upgrades across the board next year, will understand that we have the talent to take chances or put in some playmakers who can thrive with the rest of the team. This “hope” I have is pretty damn slim, but it’s what I’m holding on to going into next season…

by CPOBruin on Dec 10, 2010 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

I respectfully disagree with a number of points the honorable gentleman raises...

Although it is often expressed on BN in relation to various sports, I strongly disagree with the logic of "we should have redshirted him or played him more". This requires you to believe (a) that the coaches knew in September that there was no way a player was going to develop over the course of the season enough to warrant more than sporadic playing time and/or (b) that having chosen not to redshirt a player, you are obliged to give them significant playing time regardless of whether you think there are better options to help the team win. We decided to play Jones some as a true freshman; his performances over the season were ok but not enough to displace Franklin and Coleman. He was also always in line to be the backup if one of the other backs went down, so it made sense to keep getting him reps even as the #3, particularly in our run-heavy offense.

I also disagree with the following trope regularly employed on BN – freshman X looked better than upperclassman Y on the field later in the season, so always should have been ahead of player Y on the depth chart. This seems incorrect for a couple of reasons: 1) freshmen have the steepest learning curve, and a player late in the season has had more coaching and practice, and has likely improved more than an upperclassman in the same position, so claims that a guy should have started earlier neglects the differential maturation process; and 2) most football positions are not just about physical tools and technique, but also about knowledge and fitting within a scheme; upperclassmen are often preferred if they understand schemes better, will reliably put themselves in the right position, and will allow teammates to make plays confident that they will be doing their job correctly. This applies in the case of Zumwalt vs Sloan, also in Riley vs Dye, etc. An international under-21 rugby player from New Zealand might look quick, strong and have excellent tackling technique, but you would think twice about throwing them into a high-level college football game if they didn’t know the game. They might even make some plays, but the overall defense might suffer. Same issue could be applied to Jones – apparently struggled to pick up the blocking schemes in pass protection, but all anyone wants to talk about is his running ability – and Brehaut, who throws a much prettier spiral than Prince and made some great improvisational plays at times, but also goes off-script regularly and recently developed a habit for putting balls in places where only the defender had a chance at a play.

Personally, I’m stepping away from BN football discussions until the dust settles (or until there are major coaching changes made). In the aftermath of the pitiful display against $c we have an outpouring of negativity that is more like a sledgehammer than the scalpel of incisive-and-balanced criticism that is the general hallmark of BN. A lot of criticism directed at CRN and crew is justified, but I’m not sure we’re far away from hearing that Kip Smith should have been given more opportunities to place kick this season and that CRN was playing favorites with Kai Forbath… not directed at muircoach, or even more generally at the other people fanposting their thoughtful takes, but the postseason comment threads have not been very balanced, and include lots of comments from people I don’t think we saw engaging throughout the season with the BN constructive dialogue. Just a personal thought, no implication for other people intended or implied.

by britishbruin on Dec 10, 2010 6:54 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

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