Bad Poetry In Westwood: What Howland Needs To Do To Salvage The Season He Has Been Wasting At UCLA
by Nestor on Feb 7, 2010 12:07 PM PST
in Basketball
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PrintLet's tie up a loose end on home page before going to some scattered hoops reflections on this wasted season (yes, it is a wasted season barring a miracle run in the conference tournament which is not going to happen). Malcolm Lee attempted to explain his much discussed tweet from Fri, which only raised even more questions:
"They said you're trying to stir stuff up, and I was like, ‘No,'" Lee said Saturday. "That's just a phrase from the poetry I've written called, ‘Muzzle.' It don't got nothing to do with basketball. It's just talking about society as a whole."
Yeah, so we are just suppose to think it has to do with his thoughts about "society" when it specifically addresses last two years and was shared through a social media outlet which he uses to talk about his basketball game (A LOT). Okay then. I will leave Malcolm alone and not push it any further, but needless to say it just doesn't look good for Lee and his basketball program.
Speaking of not looking good without any "explanation", this post game comments pretty much says all we need to know (yeah, emphasis ours):
"I just don't know what's going on," Dragovic said about the Bruins' home struggles.
He wasn't alone.
"I don't have explanation why we're not finishing games at home," guard Malcolm Lee said.
Poetic. Indeed. More after the jump.
At this point Ben Howland (and his blind followers who are starting to sound like bunch Bill & Ted blindos) has no justification to offer for why Dragovic's has been offered 30+ minutes in this awful starting rotation.
Unfortunately, we have also reached a stage in the season when the damage has been done as Howland's mismanagement probably has shattered the possibility of any kind of confidence Brendan Lane, Mike Moser, and J'Mison Morgan could have built up by playing decent minutes earlier in the season (given the results to date they could not have done any worse than the current bunch).
Still if Howland does care about the holding on the plummeting support around him in the Bruin Nation (and trust us we have been more fair and reasonable to him than number of other venues over the years), he needs to drop his stubbornness and loosen up his rotation. At this point here is how I would have the starting unit set up:
- PG: Jerime Anderson (he can't do any worse than our pitbull)
- SG: Michael Roll (makes more sense to have at the 2 on offense)
- SG/SF: Malcolm Lee (put him at the 2 spot on defense and then let him attack on offense)
- PF: Tyler Honeycutt
- C: Reeves Nelson
Off the bench in order
- Nikola Dragovic (give backup 10-15 mins to Honeycutt, his minutes need to be on the lower end unless he magically displays his "shooting" touch which makes an appearance once every blue moon)
- James Keefe (give backup 10-15 mins to frontcourt, especially at the 5 spot)
- Mustafa Abdul-Hamid (give backup 15-20 mins giving Anderson/Lee needed rest)
- Brendan Lane (give him AT LEAST 10-15 minutes in the front court for rest of the season)
- Miker Moser (give him 10-15 minutes in the backcourt especially at home games).
I don't have Morgan up there right now because it doesn't sound like he is healthy. If he is 100 percent, then he should burn into Keefe's backup minutes.
At this point rest of this regular season is worthless. People can hold on to their delusion of Bruins being in "contention" all they want, but the reality is we are not going anywhere. We are going to get humiliated in Seattle, Tucson and also most likely in Tempe and at the Costco Center this coming week. We will probably lose in Pullman and might even drop one of the last games at Pauley because the team will be utterly demoralized by that point.
So, this presents Howland a golden opportunity to treat this like an exhibition season getting the team ready for next year, giving kids like Lane, Moser, Morgan, Abdul-Hamid much needed minutes and give rest of the returning starters as much positive reinforcement as possible to get them excited about coming back. Otherwise, if Howland continues to waste this season away by sticking to his stubborn rotation and reward so called basketball players who have not bothered to show up on the defensive end game after game this season, then he will have all but squandered away the vast amount of good will he has built up over the years.
And that's just the thoughts around rotation management. We haven't discussed the issues around his coaching staff yet. Seems like there are lot of legitimate questions we can raise around the current group of assistants (except for Donny Daniels) who have not been inspiring since the departure of Kerry Keating. It is something we are going to talk about perhaps down the line in next few days, weeks or months. It is going to be very interesting to see whether Howland takes measures to address it after the season is over.
Ben Howland is not on the hot seat yet. However, the way he has managed this team this season, he is getting to that point at an alarming rate. I really hope he does a little self reflecting (like he did realizing what was apparent to everyone else that he needed to zone), and figure out the steps he need to take not just to win back his team but all the extended UCLA basketball community around him. Otherwise, we are going to be looking at more bad poetry rest of this season, the ugly effects of which will carry over to next season.
GO BRUINS.
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Moser & Lane
I’d love to see these two guys hit the court, also. But having seen Lane, he just reminds me of a younger James Keefe, who can sprint up and down the court. No offensive mentality at this point , playing like he should be on the bench. As for Moser, I’ve only heard what a baller he can be, but apparently CBH doesnt play him because Moser’s practice play does not warrant gametime play. Moser is probably another over-rated recruit that isn’t going to pan out. If he did have D1 skills, I’d figure he’d be getting minutes. This team needs scorers, badly. Cal had guys that could put the ball in the basket from all positions. The Bruins aren’t even close to that. . I do agree with Nestor and his starting five and sub patterns. But, too many minutes he suggested for Drago. I’d sit him down along side Stover and leave him there. I supported that dude up to this point, but now I’ve see the light! Go Bruins!
by LouisianaBruins on Feb 7, 2010 11:19 AM PST reply actions
if we abandon the season
then I would rather have RN and TH mostly playing the positions they project to next year, as those are two guys I think we can rely on to have next year as starters. I wouldn’t bother coddling the sophomore class any further and trying to find ways to use ML’s NBADL talents. Also, insofar as ML still might be our starting point guard next year if we go with ML and TyLamb in the back court, I’d just as soon let him ‘develop’ in that position as give the minutes to JA.
But this causes further problems – like filling up center minutes with occasional RN, and JK/Bobo, and finding PF/SF minutes for BL and MM behind their more talented peers. (You have MM getting minutes in the backcourt – are you including SF in the backgourt? Or are you playing him as a SG?)
I also feel like MAH is not going to blow up with additional minutes, and could be 3rd guard off the bench next year, so I don’t know that extended minutes for him are important.
The more I think about it, the fact that we have two PFs and two SFs in the freshman class puts us in a sticky situation for any ‘build for the future’ strategy. Meh. What a mess.
Like this strategy
I mentioned on the other thread that Moser hasn’t really seen the floor at all since mid-December and Lane hasn’t seen significant minutes since late December. And yeah, you DO have to pay some respect to the seniors by giving them the first minutes off the bench, but I don’t think double-digit minutes for MM and BL (and eventually JMM) every game from here on out is too much to ask for. Heck, we’ll probably be 15+ behind at some point in the next three games anyway, so what would we have to lose by playing them?
Lineup changes
I definetly think this is not only worth a try but given substantial exposure. Bruins cannot use postseason to develop for next year as there will be no post season. We need to know just what these guys could bring to a GAME on a regular rotation basis. Rago and Keefe should be thanked and advised that their roles will be diminished. Let’s see where this would take us. Nestor gets the prize for stepping up and addressing the problem and proposing solutions.
i dont think
playing the young guys means giving up on this season. i think going forward continuing to give drago and keefe significant minutes is giving up on the season because we know what that means, .500 at best. the definition of insanity comes to mind, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. this rotation is incapable of putting together 40 minutes of good basketball. and if cbh isn’t crazy, he sure is driving us insane.
say what you’d like about the young guys but seniors define teams. our seniors are career role players and back ups which means they aren’t very good, are one-dimensional or are only good in spurts. hats off to roll who is playing way outside of his comfort zone and has produced for the most part, but even he deals with serious streaks both ways and disappears. maintaining the status quo is giving up. it means what we see week in and out is just fine for ucla. it is not. we’ve been going into gunfights with water pistols.
cbh please play mustafa a bit more at the point, give lee some time to do what he does best, and let the leash off of moser, lane, bobo, and whoever else is sitting on the bench.
Across The Face
Def. don't think playing younger guys is "giving up" on this season
When I am advocating for playing younger guys, I am suggesting that it would lay down the blocks for “next” season. And given the results 23 games into this season, I don’t think the outcome can be any worse.
Playing younger vs. senior players
When UCLA won its first NCAA title in 1964, most fans were unaware that by the title game, one of the starting five (won’t mention his name unless someone asks) was on the bench and may not have played at all in the last game. John Wooden had no issues benching a senior for a younger player, why should anyone here have an issue with that. I believe John Wooden wanted to put his best 5 on the court, not the oldest 5 or any other such arrangement.
Bill
Mensgym
im in total agreement with you N
other posts above generally equated with giving moser and lane more time with giving up on this season. my post was a response to that.
Across The Face
Why play zone if we are playing for next season?
Zone gives us a better chance to win this year, but if we are playing to get our players ready for next season, shouldn’t we be playing man? That is, unless CBH plans to go to zone indefinitely, which I doubt. Cal ripped our zone to shreds yesterday.
by gradstudentbruin on Feb 7, 2010 12:02 PM PST reply actions
what recruits are coming in next season that will play
man to man better than the current recruits?
by silverlakebruin on Feb 7, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Certainly not Josh Smith in his current state
I haven’t seen the other two so I’m not qualified to say. We all know CBH is a man-to-man defensive guy who at least once before this season he said he would never use zone, so it would surprise me if he didn’t at least try to implement man again next year. At any rate, zone defense is not our long-term defensive strategy under CBH unless he undergoes some massive change in coaching philosophy (which I don’t anticipate).
It’s also been pointed out by other posters that zone defense is fine considering the limitations of the current squad but no CBH coached team is going to win a championship with zone. I’m sure he knows this and is looking to get back to implementing his style of defense at the earliest possibility.
by gradstudentbruin on Feb 7, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Everyone Asking for Lane and Moser to play more
If there any evidence that they would perform better than Drago? Howland sees them in practice every day. So I guess my question is, do you think Howland is intentionally playing the worse players? Why would he do that? Is there a conspiracy theory I’m missing somewhere? Or do you guys just think Howland lost his basic basketball abilities and his ability to evaluate skill?
UCLA '08
I don't "trust" Howland any more ...
… in terms of what he sees in practices. It took him 16 games to realize we needed to try out some zone (in a sincere way) this season.
Correction
It took him 15 games (ASU was the first game he tried zone in a sincere way after getting blown out and humiliated few times earlier this season). Then he inexplicably went right back to mostly man-to-man against Arizona.
Sorry, we are not going to blindly take Howland’s words on what has taken place during practices. Moreover, he hasn’t offered any words on why Ragovic and other senior like Keefe are better suited for mins than the freshmen rotting on the bench.
Another question I'd im curious
maybe from someone with bball coaching experience etc: How how can a young player improve from practice a lone vs. how much can they improve from practice + playing in real games. If a guy like Lane was playing minutes right now, how much would that speed up his improvement as a player? None, a lot, a bit? The thing I’m least familiar with re: basketball as a sport is what practices are like.
UCLA '08
by BruinTrouble on Feb 7, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting question
Perhaps someone like muircoach can explain more on this. From my perspective Howland had no problem with giving minutes to players like LMR and PAA early in their career even though they didn’t have any offensive skills and picked up cheap fouls. He gave them mins throughout the season, getting them in game experience and coached them up to play D. As charnaw noted below Lane and Moser were all heralded recruits pursued by other elite programs. They have potential. It is up to Howland and his staff to tap it and they need to start on that now given the results have been unacceptable with the current formula.
Moreover, note with 3 seniors getting so many minutes in the current rotation, Howland has effectively lost the excuse of his guys being too “young.” Right now the results for this rotation unless he changes it, will be hung around his neck.
Something I've been thinking about
Our 2006 title-game run keeps running through my head as I look at this season. That team hadn’t shown us the ability to roll through opponents early in the season, but evolved as the year went on. My new theory? Injuries.
If you look back at that roster, there were very few (if not any) regular contributors who hadn’t missed a game over the course of the season. Shipp sat out the season after surgery, Farmer injured his ankle, Hollins had back problems, etc. Looking back, do you think Luc, Alfred, Michael, and Derron would have gotten on the court as much if the entire team hadn’t been snakebitten? By the time the Dance arrived, I was supremely confidant in our depth after watching so many players take the floor, improve, and continue leading us to tough victories.
Russell’s amazing sophomore year also came on the heels of filling in for an injured DC, after those first few games when he learned how to play a distributing role at point guard.
I’m not saying Howland NEEDS injuries before he starts tinkering with the lineup, but it’s starting to look like every game a key player sits out has been a blessing in disguise. After all, during K-Love’s year we were extremely dependent on our starting 5, and this year has not been much different in terms of how much our key players are being asked to leave on the court. I feel bad wishing Drago and Keefe would both miraculously break their legs in a clean and not-too-lasting fashion but… I kinda wish Drago and Keefe would miraculously break their legs in a clean and not-too-lasting fashion.
Drago/Keefe ... PLEASE
Don’t write that again on BN wishing injuries on kids. That is sickening. I know you were joking but sometimes it’s hard to tell that online.
However, your underlying point re. 2006 season, revelation of RW as a pointguard when DC went down in his second season, is a very astute one.
similar question, slightly different angle
presumably it’s more than just minutes on the court, it’s meaningful minutes in competitive games – e.g. playing guys for 5 minutes a night in garbage time in a blowout win or blowout loss is presumably not that useful.
How much would players improve with playing time in competitive situations, versus playing in non-competitive situations? LMR and PAA’s minutes – often due to injury or foul trouble in their freshman years – came in competitive situations. One of my major concerns if we were really to play ‘the rotation of the future’ is that not only would the minutes not be that helpful for BL and MM if we are playing in confusion, and that TH and RN are currently getting good minutes in competitive games that might not be so competitive if we start planning for the future rather than trying to win games in the present.
If we had some freshman guards, I could see an argument for getting them used to playing with TH and RN for team building purposes, but MM and BL are sitting behind those guys in the rotation and play their positions. It’s actually why I would make giving Bobo some minutes a priority over MM and BL, given that he currently seems more likely to start than either of the other two and would allow RN and TH to play their actual positions.
Oh darn, should have read all the way down.
What this astute gentleman said ^
"Evidence" is unnecessary
Lane and Moser are top recruits and are freshman, so every minute they play in this god-awful season will pay dividends in experience down the road. Drago, Keefe and Roll are all heading out and have enjoyed the fruits of Final Fours on the coattails of guys like DC, JS, AA2, AA1, JF, RW, LRM, KL, etc. They obviously grew accustomed to their spots as roll-fillers on prior teams, but none can lead. Keefe is invisible, suddenly Roll has hands like Mike Fay, and Drago is and absolute liability on both sides of the court . . . even his passes on the offensive end seldom find the hands of a teammate. They have each had a good run, but that chapter has closed and its time to bury these dinosaurs and give the kids quality minutes. We arent going to the dance unless we win the Pac-9 Tourney, so we have absolutely nothing to lose by initiating this change of the guard. We love CBH, but he needs to learn flexibility or we’ll never #12 under his reign.
It's not about who is better now
I would most of us would agree that Nikki D gives us a better chance to win this week than Lane and Moser.
What is not debatable is that Lane and Moser will give us infinitely more next year than Drago, because Nik won’t be here.
In my mind, there is nothing of significance to play for this year. We are a longshot at best to make either the NCAA or NIT tournaments, and won’t go anywhere in either.
So let’s look ahead to next year. Let’s get Lane and Moser playing time now. It will make them better prepared for next year when the games again will have significance.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
CBH's recruiting and strategy
I have never questioned anything CBH has done at UCLA. This season has caused me to look more at the coach than the players for this season’s utter disaster. What was CBH thinking when he recruited these kids? With the exception of TH, we have no real athletes on this team. And we have only one real shooter on this team, Mike Roll. As much as I like him, he only shows his shooting once in awhile and I really doubt whether he is a D-1 player. There is no speed on this team. And the only size/bulk advantage we might have has been sitting on the bench for two years. When we stole J’Mison Morgan from LSU, I was really excited for our program. Now I am beginning to believe that the Howland system doesn’t work for certain players like Morgan, Drew Gordon, Malcom Lee and to a certain degree Jrue Holiday. Isn’t it time to question Howland’s system and his stubborness to change to fit the talent? I follow Gonzaga quite a bit and it is amazing what Mark Few does with players that UCLA would not begin to recruit. The Zags can step out on the floor and compete with any team in the country. I also see the same at UNLV with Lon Kreuger. One more thought, the free throw shooting on this team reminds me of the unfocused Bruins teams coach by Lavin. This is lack of discipline and focus. I agree with N, CBH needs to scrap everything and play the younger kids. If he hasn’t already, he is in danger of completely losing this team.
Players vs system
You are absolutely correct to say that Howland’s system doesn’t work for certain players.
So the question is, what should change, the system or the players?
I know CBH has a system that works fantastically with players like Afflalo, Farmar, LRMAM, Westbrook, Collison, Love, etc.
I don’t know that he has any system that would work for players like Morgan, Gordon, Lee, & Holiday.
I’d prefer he go back to getting the right players that fit in his system, though that’s more easily said than done.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
Not just about getting the "right" players ...
… but also working to retain them.
AA, JF, LRMAM, and Holiday are all players who left one year early then they should have. I have now heard that DC would have left an year early if not for Howland’s coaching snaffu against Memphis, which dropped his stock down to second round.
Only KL and RW are the two players who left at the right time in Westwood. Everyone else left an year early then they should have. Meanwhile, Stanback and Ryan Wright (who had 11 points and 14 rebounds in Oklahoma’s victory over Texas yesterday) were effectively pushed out of the door.
We need to star looking at these stories all over again and think out loud on whether they tell us something. Right now I will not shocked at all if Honeycutt leaves as soon as he can out of Howlandwood.
I'd argue that AA left at the right time
He was an All American and he wouldn’t have made a significant jump in the draft because of that whole “potential” thing and his limited athleticism. Why NBA GMs continue to draft the way they do, passing over players like AA who have learned how to use their bodies efficiently and have high BBall IQs which translates to a far smoother transition to the pros is a different rant. I’m not saying he should have gone top 5 or anything, but the mid teens seems like a more appropriate spot for him than 27th overall. Incidentally, mid teens is where Nick Young was drafted, who is having an underwhelming season on a horrendous Washington team while AA starts for a contender in the Nuggets, whose team just outdueled Farmar’s Lakers in Staples.
That's a good point
However, if AA came back and teamed up with KL, I think he might have put himself in position to go top-20 in the draft. Imagine if Howland convinced AA to come back and then have him D up against D. Rose. Oooof.
Somehow, I get the feeling Bill Self or Roy Williams could have sold that angle to AA.
Yeah, I know the feeling of lost opportunities
But purely from AA’s perspective, he did the right thing. Of course, we as Bruin fans would like to see him do what’s best for the program first, which obviously would have been him staying, but given the blood, sweat, and tears (literally) that AA poured into the program, I couldn’t begrudge him his right to leave. The way I see it is that the first “selfish” thing he did as a Bruin was also his last “selfish” thing. I would take that kind of track record from any player that suits up for us.
From AA's perspective vis a vis UCLA's perspective
It has worked out well for AA through his hard work ethic. He was always going to get it done. However, if he did come back, he would have been in a potential situation to have lot more lucrative contract options. Same goes with JF, LRMAM and Holiday if they came back for one more seasons.
KL and RW couldn’t have done any better. So from perspective of management, Howland and his staff could have done a better job of making an effective pitch for those guys to stay a year longer.
One thing to keep in mind though
The 2008 draft was loaded. There are contributors up and down that list. Even if AA had had a huge season, knowing the premium that GMs place on potential and athleticism, I still couldn’t see him moving up the board. If he were in a position to negotiate his own option for his particular situation, then perhaps I could see the value in staying, but since your contract is generally pegged to where you’re drafted in the NBA, the draft position is everything, and in the end, AA went in at his likely high point.
yup
lots of genuinely big guys, and lots of flashy athletes in that draft.
There's no pleasant answer here
Do we want Howland to be like Pete Carroll, trying to convince his players to stay against their best interests? Because what it comes down to for most of these guys, who have a lower first round ceiling, is that an extra year can’t really help their stock. They’ll have to be sacrificing a year of pro money to stay because they like it so much. But the rigorous demands of real Ben Ball are not enticing enough to make them forego a year of pay.
Yes, other coaches are able to keep players around. But other coaches also lie and cheat and will say anything to help their careers (cough, Carroll, cough). I’ve always given Howland credit for not being like that. There’s no ideal way out of this, unless he becomes a different kind of “fun” coach that has nothing to do with what’s made him good.
hypothetically if we lost to kansas in AA's junior year
and they went to the final four, afflalo might have stayed, brandon rush may have bolted. then we could have won the next year
I think Williams and Self kind of got lucky keeping some of their players (brandon rush got injured and had to come back, psycho-t wasn’t highly thought of draft wise, ty lawson as well – also they were humiliated by kansas in the ff).
was about to say the same thing
would have been a coup to keep AA another year. He was who he was from an NBA perspective and had been the feature player on our team for a year. A year being paid to play a few minutes for the Pistons probably suited him just as well, and he looks to have found a good spot in Denver (which is slightly bizarre to me – I thought the defensively minded Pistons would get a lot from him, while the flashy Nuggets wouldn’t suit him… shows how little I know about being an NBA GM)
Not really sure whether LRMAM would have been better served coming back or not, unless there was a genuine commitment to play him at the 3 and let him showcase his offensive game more – which would have been good for him, but maybe not the best use of his abilities for that team, so who knows? He had already demonstrated that he was a consummate defensive player.
LRMAM could've been a first-rounder if he stayed
He’s really the only guy who could’ve actually benefited (and therefore the departure that hurt me most). But the other guys…really, everyone was saying that they had reached their draft limit. They felt they learned what they could from Howland, and wanted out. If there’s any way Howland could’ve pulled a “coup” to keep them without essentially being dishonest, I’d like to know it.
"everyone was saying that they had reached their draft limit"
Do you have evidence of this? Who is “everyone”?
Do you have any idea whether they left the program at that point because they just believed they couldn’t have improved their stock any further? When AA left it wasn’t a sure thing he’d be a first round pick. He improved his stock through his hard work during the camps. Our posts I think reflects that as we were tracking it.
I have also talked to couple of scouts who told me at the time if JF had stuck around and led UCLA to a wire-to-wire top-5 finish the following season, he could have also essentially improved his draft stock.
Moreover, during the draft both Jordan and Arron’s camp pointedly took shots at UCLA scheme (at that time we discounted it) implying they were being held back. We don’t hear that from other players from elite program while preparing for the NBA.
No one here is suggesting Howland needs to become like Pete Carroll. No way no how. However, something is off and we are going to discuss it even more openly, especially if Honeycutt leaves prematurely at the end of next season.
Farmar is an interesting case
I tend to think he left a year early – and in a draft that had plenty of guards. On the other hand, that draft was weak for other reasons – no high school players allowed, and the one-and-done guys weren’t entering the draft until the following year. Pretty sure that played into his decision.
what's your basis for that?
Were you expecting him to become more of an offensive force on that team? Seems like he would still have been playing the 4 with the ball going through DC and JH, with JS/MR/ND playing more at the 3.
He would've had plenty of opportunity
Of course, he would’ve still had to learn how to shoot. The point is, he could’ve easily solidified a first-round spot, which he hadn’t when he left.
Stanback's line
14 boards, 7 points, 4 assists, in UNLV’s win over BYU.
his prior 7 games
He scored in double digits in all 7 games, including 2 × 19-point performances and an 18-point performance
And this is his only 2nd year of full collegiate basketball
/sigh
Yep
throw Gordon in there and that is effectively 7 Howland recruits that either left before they should have or were dismissed in the last 4 years. That’s going to cause a drop off to just about any program, especially one that’s seemingly not attracting John Wall-level talent at the moment.
If lack of retention of these kids is not an indictment on Howland, then someone tell me how high the number has to get before we start looking hard at the common denominator.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
I don't think Howland's system worked that well with Love...
Love was a great player, who was able to adjust. But I don’t think Howland did a particularly good job of working his skill set into the system.
Bobo would not be playing on any other top Div. 1 team either
He’s just too slow. He lost weight but hasn’t gained strength. His baskeball skills are not there.
Have you seen Zoubek?
He’s played four years for Duke, always in spots, five extra fouls to give, especially this year. He’s a nice kid, but talk about slow.
Don't agree
with starting Anderson at PG. His play against Cal was absolutely terrible at both ends of the court. If he needs playing time, it should be off the bench is short spurts.
Fine we can start Mustafa
Give him 10-15 mins, and get Anderson off the bench. But take Rago out of the lineup.
It doesn't matter
All three point guards are flawed. ML starts because his size and length make the zone stronger. None can penetrate off the dribble, which is the biggest offensive flaw on this team.
Pretty sure the biggest offensive flaw
Is continuing to play the one guy whose most consistent facet to his game is his ability to go 0-fer or 1-fer in our games but feels no hesitation in continuing to jack up the shots.
Rago's line against Cal
31 minutes: 1 for 8 shooting (0 for 4 from 3), 5 for 8 from free throw line, 1 offensive rebound plus 2 other rebounds and 1 assist. Defense: DNP or NSF (did not play, insufficient funds). It doesn’t get any worse than this.
On Moser not in the rotation
I read on Gold’s Q&A a month or so ago. IIRC, Gold’s take was that Moser has a shoot-first mentality that apparently doesn’t sit well with the coaching staff. However, the way ND has shot this year, it’d be hard to believe that Moser would be much worse.
I know CBH
doesn’t need our help, but these rotation ideas are fun. In a season like this, it would be cool to see these experiments. Nothing to lose at this point.
PG Mustafa (Anderson)
SG Lee (Moser)
SG Roll (Lee)
F Honeycutt (Lane, Drago)
C Keefe (Nelson, Bobo)
It is like that puzzle on the coffee table at your Aunt and Uncle's house at Thanksgiving..
You know deep down there must be a solution, but no matter how hard you try you just cant seem to figure it out. We all know TH, MR and probably ML should start and get the most minutes. After that who knows. Reality is that none of the options are very appealing. Why not go with an option that hasn’t been tried ie..MM, BL.. With 5 of 7 road games now it is time to prepare for next year. Forget the Pac 10 tourney. This team isn’t capable of reeling off 3 in a row on a neutral court.
by 84 on Feb 7, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
there is a solution
just trade the expiring contracts of Dragovic, Keefe and Roll for a D-I point guard, and package Moser/Lane in a trade to bring in a journeyman center to allow RN to play PF, and we’re fine.
not sure about honeycutt at the 4, he's much better as a 3
also i’d put nelson in the starting five. if we want to bench drago, i’d suggest starting keefe, bobo, or lane in no particular order
totally agree with u on anderson not being a starter
Looking Backward v. Looking Forward
Looking Back: As to Wright and Stanback — I don’t recall any criticism of the coaching staff for not retaining them. IIRC, there was a feeling we were making space for better players and that neither Wright nor Stanback had a promising future with us. It’s not fair to second guess the staff on a decision that met with almost universal approval.
Looking Forward: However, in an attempt to improve our future, it is fair to challenge decisions being made, today. I don’t read other places, but on BN there seems to be very strong support for playing young. For changing out line up to give more players a chance.
When I’ve raised the point over the last few weeks, I’ve refused to concede that we would be worse than we are now — but have accepted that possibility and still wanted to make the move.
I am not an ND hater by any stretch. But, I am, and have been, willing to take the risk of reducing his minutes — and JK’s too, not because I dislike them but because I think we will be a better team, this year, and next, by playingothers.
Our season was gone when we lost those exhibition games. There is no pot of gold at the end of this year’s rainbow (pun intended).
So, let’s get on with the move to youth — not just for the future but for, today and tomorrow.
sjh
Agree with all except I must confess I am a ND hater.
Maybe hater is not the right word. More like no faith in him with the exception that I would rather see him, than any other player, at the free throw line. Which made me think…When was the last time we saw a technical foul in a UCLA game?
by 84 on Feb 7, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
(W)Right
unless Wright had redshirted at some point, he would have been a backup center for 4 years, not even first center off the bench for at least 2 out of his 4 years of eligibility.
I am no ND hater, but I agree that some of his minutes could productively be spent elsewhere.
Totally OT -- Can I root for the Saints
even though I hate Reggie Bush?
I feel an affinity for storm battered NO — Houston has a special relationship with the storm victim brothers and sisters.
But, I really don’t want Bush to play well or at all for that matter.
What’s a guy to do?
sjh
Solution -- Bush gets knocked out of the game on the opening kick-off
N.O. wins the game. Bush gets no credit.
Had a similar issue with justifying rooting for the Saints today
Although without the closer relationship that you have via living in Houston. Personally, I have been a Drew Brees fan since his time at Purdue, so I can balance the Bush hate somewhat with that.
formerly bruinhoo
Bush fumbles on that play as well...
and picks up a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct and is ejected. And pick his nose and eats it as he leaves the field.
Bush should have been the goat against the Vikings
But after Bush’s fumble, A Peterson fumbled on the next possession, negating the blunder.
I wrote about this earlier in the season...
When we were discussing coaches with winning seasons and player development.
I’m not a coach and so I don’t have first-hand experience developing players. That being said, the consistent play time given to seniors who are obviously not going anywhere is puzzling at best.
Will play time develop a player better than practice? I can’t give a definite experience, but from my personal experience back in school as an engineering major, hands-on knowledge taught me faster than any theory class. I recall taking a lab and having everything click about what I was learning about faster than sitting in class copying notes off the board about the theoretical derivation of a Fourier transform /shudder
And honestly, at this point, since we are not guaranteed a postseason – why not play Lane or Moser? As mentioned above, Lane and Moser were both highly recruited by other programs – so I doubt they’re talent whiffs. Same goes for the other young players – if other team’s saw something in them, we can’t all have whiffed on evaluation at the same time could we? There must be some potential there.
Given that Roll, Rago, and Keefe won’t be here next year, and since BL and MM can’t be redshirted, I don’t see how play time can hurt them. Hands-on experience in a competitive environment will surely teach them what practice can not – what it’s like to hedge or move or play in a set against actual competition.
In fact, I wrote about this before, but look back at the minutes given to players during CBH’s early years here at UCLA. During our 2006 run, people forget that even Ryan Wright was given nearly 10 minutes per game. LMR and PAA were all given a lot of play time despite limited offensive ability, while being foul magnets. And look at where LMR and PAA developed by their senior years… warriors in every sense of the word.
For that matter, look at how DC was able to quickly take the reins at PG after JF left. Or RW after AA left.
In fact, had CBH not played AA or JF or during their freshmen year in favor of less talented seniors, as he is now, do you think we make any run in 2006? Does our success continue had LRMAM been given the MM treatment his freshman year?
My big fear right now with regards to player’s not getting play time is seeing the same thing that happened with Chace Stanback. Yes, Stanback, who in his 2nd full year in D1 NCAA basketball (okay, his 1st year he barely got any play time anyways, so one could say it’s not even a 2nd full year)… is averaging 10.3 ppg and 5.8 rpg. Sure it’s the Mountain West, but it’s obvious he has talent and potential given how limited he played before and what he’s doing now (not to mention he didn’t get as much play time early in the season, and now is a starter on the team). Heck he even hits 81.6% of his free throws…
At the time we didn’t make much of Stanback’s transfer (or Wright’s), or the early departures of some of our players, but this year has really brought some of them nto perspective.
My point with all that? These players we have were heavily recruited by other team’s as well, so people clearly saw potential in them – and be it due to play time or playing style, they’re not being utilized, and I fear but wouldn’t be surprised if we saw more Stanback-esque situations…
To reinforce the point of young players playing
I look back at the clip of Gonzaga vs UCLA (which still gives me chills)
Who were the players on the floor when we went ahead? Well here’s 4 of em:
Collison (frosh)
Afflalo (soph)
Farmar (soph)
Mbah a Moute (frosh)
Sad to think if it were today we’d have Rago out there..
by nickramz on Feb 7, 2010 11:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
those players were ready to contribute,
Like RN and TH. MM and BL just aren’t. Compare BL to LRMAM? No way.
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