Assessing Howland's Job Performance As UCLA Basketball Coach: End Of Season Poll

Photo Credit: Stephen Dunn/Getty Images (via Life)
We ran this poll at the midpoint of this past season:
At the midpoint of 09-10 hoops season, what is your assessment of Ben Howland's job performance in his 7th year as the head coach of UCLA basketball (7-10), heading towards its only 3rd losing season since 1948 (Lavin is responsible for the previous 2)?
Here were the results from more than 800 votes cast in that poll. That mid-season survey gave Howland a 37 percent approval rating from BN. 40 percent of BN disapproved of the job Howland was doing at midpoint of this past season while 20 percent were unsure. Here were some comments and reactions to the poll at the time which some accused of being biased.
If you want to get a sense of who are voting in these polls here is the make up of BN according to our most recent survey which shows at least 60 percent of this community is comprised of Bruin alums.
Anyway, the season is over and it is going to be interesting to see what the pulse of this community is following only the 3rd losing season since Coach Wooden took over this program. Just put up a new poll assessing Howland's job performance with a simplified the question this time around:
At the end of 09-10 hoops season, what is your assessment of Ben Howland's job performance going into his 8th year as the head coach of UCLA basketball?
You can cast your vote here and leave any comments on the poll and how you voted and why you vote the way you did right in this thread.
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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I 'approve' of his overall performance to date
So far, his record is pretty symmetrical – losing season (charged to Lavin?), early round NCAA, Final Four, Final Four, Final Four, early round NCAA, losing season. I think that he had some above-average luck getting to three straight Final Fours, and some below-average luck with how this season played out (not saying he did a great job this season by any means).
The only reason I thought about voting ‘unsure’ here was that the performance has trended downwards for two years and it is unclear how far the failure of this season – and some accompanying culture issues in the program – may impede us moving forward. I guess I approve of his performance thus far but am currently apprehensive about the future. I would feel a lot happier saying ‘approve’ if we were to sign at least one more high quality recruit for next year. Right now, I am not optimistic entering a season not knowing if we have a Pac-10-talent PG or a Pac-10-ready Center on the roster.
Future polls coming up
At the beginning of next season (which will take into account his recruiting performance to close out this year’s class and fall signing for next year’s class), midpoint of next season, at the end of next season and so forth.
As for me I voted “unsure” and don’t think I need to go over details why given all the posts this season.
Sums up my feelings pretty well
CBH did have below average luck this year, remember we started the OR/ORST games with our 5th String Center. (Of course on the flip side this was the worst PAC 10 in recent memory so maybe luck balances out.)
But CBH blew it by not doing what he thought was right (pulling Rago for bad shots), keeping JA out of the point guard spot, and going back to M2M when the personnel could not play it.
Of course this makes me sound unsure. However, CBH can still coach as he showed by his Thursday record. This year he game planned some on offense as well, as we saw in AZ games (working it inside) and the ORST game beating the trap with MR at point. He definitely can coach an individual game with notice well.
I am very concerned but he is a good coach and is not a Lavin, Hazard, or Farmer. To my mind this years team would have been a winner if it had a decent PG. if JH stayed for example. Not making an excuse.
So I agree with BB would add a big plus to this statement:
I approve of his performance thus far but am currently apprehensive about the future. I would feel a lot happier saying ‘approve’ if we were to sign at least one more high quality recruit for next year. Right now, I am not optimistic entering a season not knowing if we have a Pac-10-talent PG
If we get a “McCallum”. I will have no reservations about being excited about next year. If we don’t . . .
right
I don’t like the way it is set up at the minute. My main concern is that we will lose TH and ML before we have a decent PG to play with them (I would be surprised if either left now, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if both bolt after next year); secondarily I worry that we may have a revolving door at the center position next year with no-one really ready for prime time.
by britishbruin on Mar 17, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe I am naive
But I am not as worried about Center. If Bobo leaves and Smith shows up heavier, I start to worry. But I think we can survive with Center by committee.
On PG, I am really worried. TH, ML (as a 2), RN (if he plays D) is a good/very good core. But without a PG it all falls apart.
I assume we will have enough talent at center
but not sure whether they fit CBH’s defensive scheme (though perhaps he can modify his man defense to accommodate JS2 if he has a summer to get ready?).
Front court depth is always good, so having five guys for two spots at the 4/5 could be great. But I’d happily trade a couple of them for a PG who can play 30 mins of quality…
by britishbruin on Mar 17, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Unsure but I would hate to rest the season on him
That is why I would like to get one more PG.
Lavin
He was not even a ‘coach.’ While I have been critical of Howland this season I would never compared him to Lavin. Lavin was a bad person and he wasn’t a “coach.”
Howland is a very good coach who has been phenomenal in rebuilding programs. We are going to find out in next two seasons whether he can rebuild it again and then have a foundation in place that will sustain his success.
But no comparison to a sleazebag like Lav.
Wasn't trying to imply that
I KNOW your feelings about Lavin and will only argue with you that I felt them first. ;-) I agree that he should not have the title coach associated with him and I have called him the graduate assistant in other places.
However, the point I was trying to make is that UCLA has a history of hiring/promoting clowns. Farmer was the single worse bench coach I have seen in D-1. He was so bad the people at Weber State (who were so excited to get Farmer, a “UCLA Coach”, as their head coach) were calling for his head after a season. Hazard was hired as an assistant and would not have been bad in that role. He helped develop a few players like Nigel Migel and Reggie Miller (he help teach him to do more than just shoot outside) but was never really head coaching material.
CBH is better than all three of those by a long ways. I would be ecstatic if I was Weber State and he came to coach for me. I am also scared what would happen if he quit or were fired today.
That said, I think BN has it perfect, the seat is getting warm. UCLA rightly has high expectations of their basketball coach.
I know you weren't even thinking that
But I just like making the point Lavin is a sleazy clown who cannot be labeled as a “coach”. Don’t have anything to disagree with you wrote just wanted to make that point. This is turning out to be a pretty solid thread.
Unsure
It all comes down to recruiting. If the program is plagued with the reputation for being a basketball bootcamp, then he is going to continue to have problems bringing in top talent and keeping players like Honeycutt. If it was poor recruiting decisions on JA, et. al., that could be remedied in a season or two. More than anything, despite all the well deserved Drago bashing, this season showed me that you cannot compete in the Pac 10 without a penetrating point guard. Can CBH bring in point guards of the JF and DC caliber? He has in the past, but he muffed on JA. Time will tell.
I voted "unsure"
A year ago, I would have voted “approve”. Two years ago, I would have voted “strongly approve”. Now, I just don’t have a clue.
Quite frankly, I am perplexed as to what the hell has happened to this program. There are things that happened this year that I never in a million years would have guessed would happen to a Ben Howland-coached team. The problems seem to run deeper than can be explained by a episodic “downturn” that can happen to any program. What most perplexes me is the complete absence of any clear-cut positive signals that things will turn around relatively quickly. I am just not seeing it.
As far as I’m concerned, taking everything into account, next year is Howland’s “show me” season. It should be readily apparent to anyone that follows this program closely that we are heading in the right direction by the time March 2011 rolls around.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
I would add
In addition of producing on the court, he needs to produce on recruiting trail this off-season to recapture the lost momentum in this program. Plus we will also have to watch very closely how he handles his personnel/staffing decision as well. W-L record next two seasons will be huge components on the answer whether he is the long term solution at UCLA. I strongly believe off-season moves in both short term and long term future (in terms of next two years) will be telling as well.
Repeat BlueMe's post and you have my thought's word for word
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
Debated a bit on this one
finally voted unsure. I’ve been baffled/pissed about this past season for a long time, but ultimately I want to give CBH another year to see what direction things go. If he didn’t have the record of performance here that he’s established, I’d be among the many that would be calling for his head. Since he’s shown himself quite capable of getting his teams to succeed, I won’t do that – yet. I think this coming year (starting now through the end of the tournament next year) is make it or break it for me. I’m not expecting 31-2 or anything like that, but I expect to see the program moving strongly in a positive direction. If we continue to flounder with no direction, little attention to fundamentals, and lackadaisical play, I’ll say it’s time to find a new coach. I don’t want that to happen, but right now I don’t know what to expect.
Approve
I’ve been very critical of CBH and all the issues that we’ve discussed regarding the program. And I’m not sure whether we’re currently in a downward spin or if this is a momentary dip. But I can’t deny the job CBH has done in resurrecting the program and taking us to the dance 5 out of 6 years (his 1st season doesn’t count in my book) with 3 FF’s. Thus, he gets the nod for the body of work.
Voted "unsure"
because I am. This is the same guy, I’m pretty sure, who pulled UCLA out of the putrid Lavin muck and forged a tough, competitive team with character that made deep runs into the tourney.
Then again, he’s the same guy who fostered a caustic team chemistry, so much so that would-be starters find other homes, and tolerated, heck, rewarded, un-UCLA-like off-court behavior. The same guy who seems not to be able to communicate with the young students on his team. And, most damning, the same guy whose team did not show improvement week to week.
For much of this season, I saw a fragmented, listless team. The whole should be greater than the sum of the parts, but it wasn’t. And, the atmosphere surrounding the team seemed to guarantee that it wouldn’t be. This chemistry thing is what I find most troubling.
Strongly approve, for now
I thought about this for a long time. When making assessments, we often focus on the most recent event. The last season was an unmitigated disaster that does raise questions about the future of UCLA basketball under Ben Howland. However, I had to balance that against the undisputed fact that in 3 of his 7 seasons, he has produced the 2nd, 3rd and 4th most successful UCLA basketball seasons in 30 years. His first losing season was not really his responsibility, just as CHP doesn’t deserve much credit for the 1997 run to the Elite 8.
Thus, we have 3 outstanding seasons, 2 pretty good seasons and 1 disaster. By taking us to the Final 4 in 3 of 6 years, Howland has proven that he has a higher ceiling for success than any coach UCLA has had since Larry Brown (whose ceiling was blocked during his entire career by his itchiness to explore greener grass on the other side).
Due to those 3 outstanding seasons and other 2 acceptable seasons, I am willing to give Howland a mulligan for 2009-10.
My “strongly approve” rating is tenuous, however. The next 8 months are critical for Howland to keep that rating and in my opinion will determine whether he can become a lifetime UCLA coach or just another in a long line of shooting stars (and charlatans) that have captained UCLA basketball since Coach retired. Because the next 8 months will tell us the shape of the roster in 2010-11 and 2011-12 in three ways.
First, the current and incoming players need to embrace the serious work they must do in the offseason to improve themselves. TH, BL, ML, MM, AS and JA need to gain weight and strength to play at a high level. JS needs to lose weight. All need to play a lot of basketball against good competition at the Men’s Gym to improve their games. Because if all of the 8 returning players don’t improve, some significantly, next year will be a disaster as well.
Second, Howland must address the poor roster construction in the spring signing period by bringing in another guard (point or combo) who can challenge for playing time immediately and a face-up power forward (of small forward with a developed body who has can spend time at the 4) who can also challenge for playing time.
Third, by November 15, Howland needs to sign about 3 guys in the 2011 class, and at least one of them needs to be able to make a difference right away, probably this will include at least one guard and at least one small forward.
By November 15, we will know if Howland can fix the roster by doing these three things. If he does not fix it, 2010-11 and 2011-12 will be the inevitable nails in the coffin for a shooting star who could build a program but couldn’t keep it strong.
By my reading, all three of your points
assume all non-seniors (other than MAH) will return. That may not be a sure thing.
"...another in a long line of shooting stars..."
We could have used a few more of those in the front court and back court this year, to complement MR, our only shooting star.
I had a hard time with the question
I strongly approve of CBH’s body of work UNTIL this year. (I see last year differently than many.)
If asked about this year, only, I would have been in the unsure category — which seems to be the “neutral” position — for many of the reasons discussed here at length.
The failure of this year is linked to so many things including a fools gold recruiting class that did not improve over the summer, the lack of a true point guard, and terrible time allocation. Whether all of those factors were clearly foreseeable or were the result of a perfect storm is subject to debate.
I think we will have better insight into what CBH can do with this program, from now until the end of next year. I think he is a great coach who will learn from and adjust around the “mistakes/misfortune” (depending on your perspective) of this year.
If he cannot or does not, I will vote more harshly at the end of next year. I’m not saying he has to go to a Final Four. I am saying he has to correct the mistakes of this year and get us aimed in the right direction.
sjh
Approve
I went back and read my post in that thread, and two comments stood out to me.
To me, only CBH has any standing and credibility in our program at this time.
This season is lost, and I blame the players more than I blame CBH.
Watching CBH’s inexplicable continued use of a certain player changed my mind greatly about where to place the blame for this season. In retrospect, MR was valiant. RN and TH showed great promise as freshmen. ML had moments. JK did all he could. MAH was a pleasant surprise. Bobo and BN showed that we can still hope for something from them in the future. Hell, even ND just kept doing what he was allowed to do.
CBH is the leader of this program. The buck stops with him. And he completely mismanaged this season. He allowed precedents to be established which killed the ethic and spirit of this team. The team flailed in the environment. More than the players, CBH was responsible for this year, and in my eyes, he lost a great deal of standing in this program.
Having said that, I think (and desperately hope) that the real CBH is the coach of the 3 F4’s, and that this year was the aberration. In that light, I still approve of his job thus far. But the gap between approve and disapprove got a lot smaller this year. Next year will be very interesting and very telling.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
Voted "disapprove" then and "disapprove" now
I went back and looked at my comments on the prior poll, and I still feel the same way. My standard for UCLA basketball (perhaps unrealistically high) is that UCLA should seriously contend more often than not for national championships and that off seasons should be such as we had last year or in Howland’s second season. What happened this year should just never happen. In Howland’s seven seasons as coach, UCLA has been a serious contender for national honors 3 times (the three final four years). That’s not bad, but my problem is that it seems the talent level has fallen off rather than gone up over the last few years. And I just don’t see things getting a whole let better next year – there are a lot of things that have to break right in order for that to happen (players remaining in school and improving their attitudes, recruits turning out to be good, etc.). Now, I’m not saying that Howland should be fired. The three final fours show that he can put together good teams. I would say we should take another look in a couple of years and see if he has been able to put the program back on the right track. But if not, the program needs to go in another direction.
I was about one embarrassing blow out away
from putting myself in the disaprove category. You are right, there are things that happened this year that should just never happen at UCLA. Losing by 30 to Portland? C’mon. Losing to Fullerton? C’mon. Losing to a team with the logo “The Beach”. Really? Losing to the SUCsters aka “sacrificial lambs” by 30? At home? And then somone quoting “we just want to prove we can play with them” the next game? Really? You have got to be kidding.
There are some programs out there where Final Fours don’t get you any extra good will towards seasons such as these. Hell, we used to be one of those programs!
We are being more than reasonable as fans of this program to be unsure or even disapprove at this point.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Voted "approve"
This vote is made with my long-standing belief that our team this year should have looked very different (JH, MR, TH, RN, DG with Chase, ML, ND and maybe Ryan Wright coming of the bench). And while CBH’s insistance on feeding minutes to the player that shall not be named (is it just me or has Nikola Dragovic become our own Lord Voldemort, I guess him and the Lizard sort of share that distinction) goes a long way toward pushing me in the “unsure” direction, it doesn’t erase the final four runs.
With regard to the belief that CBH himself is driving players out of Westwood and that this team lacked JH, DG, Chase and Ryan Wright because of him, I’d like to give it another go round or two before making final judgement on that one. As for now, the sample size of players that should have stuck around the program (sure fire first rounders in the draft don’t count) but didn’t is still relatively small.
I don't think RN would have started over Chase
The only reason he was able to show his abilities this year is because Gordon left and JK got injured.
And I also don’t believe that MR would start over ML. We never really knew what Roll could do before this year because he was never asked to. In retrospect Howland should have started him at guard last year and had Holiday come off the bench for DC, but he didn’t which leads me to believe that if it came down to Roll, with an unproven all-around game, and ML, he would choose ML due to his athleticism.
With that line-up of Holiday, ML, TH, Chase, and DG I don’t think we win more than 20 games, although we likely make the tournament.
I voted approve for a few reasons
First of all because I tried my best to view his performance as a whole, and 3 straight Final Fours plus a ton of first rounders is hard to argue with.
Second, I still think that he is one of the best coaches today in terms of understanding the game. The fact that before last year he was undefeated on Thursdays (or Wednesdays) in Pac-10 games really speaks to his practices and game-planning. Give him some dedicated, hard-nosed players and he will take them to the top. Unfortunately, he has to go out and get them, and this is where he seems to struggle.
Third, I think this situation is fixable, but only if Howland realizes that the mistakes are his in a more meaningful way than just “I should have this” or “I messed up that.”
All of that being said, if we have a sub-par year next season, it better be because Tyler Lamb is leading us in minutes played. I could care less about our record as long as there is improvement from start to finish. And that improvement begins this offseason. If the players (specifically JA and ML) don’t work their ass off and come back hungry and committed, then my vote goes to unsure if not disapprove.
It should be clear by now that CBH can’t win with talent. Just look at Jrue Holiday. For all those people who bemoan us losing out on the John Walls and Kevin Durants of the world, they are wasting their time because Howland would never win with them. The only way Howland knows how to win is with hard work, aka Ben Ball Warriors. Yes some like JF, AA, and DC were very talented, but others like AA2, LMR, and MR sorely lacked in the talent department. They all worked hard, however, and they were all winners with CBH. Howland needs players that are committed to doing what it take both on and off the court, and if this current group isn’t willing (and I’m not holding my breath), then either Howland needs to go or the players do, because the 2 just can’t win together.
Re-reading what I wrote
and that last paragraph was an angry one. I was wondering when this season’s pent up rage would come out :-)
But I actually want to expand on what I said in that last paragraph. I’m just too tired and busy right now (20 page paper due in 24 hours). Hopefully I’ll remember to do a fanpost later/won’t forget what I was trying to argue in the first place.
If Howland can't win with talent
one really has to wonder what the ceiling is of a Ben Howland-coached team. I agree that it may take a certain “personality” or “work-ethic” per se to thrive under Howland. However, if there is a strong aversion towards bringing in a superstar because Howland hasn’t found a way to bring out the best in them, I really have to question whether Howland is the right fit here.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Yup
In prior posts I mentioned Bo Ryan and his program at Wisconsin. CBH and Ryan are similar coaches IMO due to many factors. Sideout mentioned that CBH has issues winning with talent. I tend to agree. CBH works best with under-recruited kids who have a chip on their shoulders and will run through a wall for a coach that gives them a shot. I’m not talking about 1 star types but the ones who feel they should have been more heavily recruited and/or who believe that they can play at and excel at the high profile schools.
The rub is that UCLA will always garner interest and get kids that are highly rated because its UCLA. Wisconsin builds their success on having guys grow in their system and are mostly 4 year players with a few stars sprinkled here and there. That works for them but it won’t work for us because we get better recruits and
I won’t speak for others….but I am not going to be happy just making the dance when we have 11 banners hanging in Pauley.
Somethings gotta give.
I don't think it's a problem of too much interest
I think that it’s a problem of Howland’s style only working for players that have a good work ethic and commitment to the system. The truly talented players are made acutely aware of both their talent and the fact that it will pretty much get them in wherever they want. So then they choose between Howland, who will be a hard-ass and make them play defense or Calamari, who will let them “have fun” and pile it on with tons of alley-oop dunks. I’m not saying that this characterization is true, but it’s certainly the perception.
I’m not saying players with elite talent don’t have a good work ethic (KL comes to mind immediately as a counterpoint), but I am saying that elite players that will work in CBH’s system are the locus of good work ethic, superior talent, superior grades, and a willingness to stick around for a couple/few years. I’m not saying these players don’t exist, but this is a pretty hard bill to fit, nevermind fit every year to stockpile talent, like Calamari does.
One thing that sticks out in my mind is that before he deserted, Drew Gordon led (or attempted to lead) an “insurrection” within the roster to make Howland play a “faster” offense. I don’t know how many players were involved, but I think this is indicative of a need for the team (and Howland himself) to rededicate themselves to solid defense, and that this March Madness is an opportunity for Ben to show his players how good D executed properly leads to TOs, fast breaks, and more of the “uptempo,” show-offy offense they want. I feel like the only player that consistently played good D this year is Malcolm Lee. I always felt comfortable having him D up on the opposing star player, but I certainly didn’t feel the same way about JA, ND, and occasionally RN. RN brought the effort, but he made some (understandable) freshman mistakes, and the fact that he was undersized sometimes caused fouls instead of good D. ND, we’ve been over ad nauseum. JA was either constantly outclassed or holding back in a huge way. I’m not sure I ever saw JA execute a play and thought “Wow, that’s good D!” I was too busy cringing. I think there should be mandatory “team meetings” where they just show coverage of the tournament and Howland points out every time where good D led to a fast break/easy dunk/etc. until they finally get it.
I went to our first game of the season
on the way home I was listening to the post-game interview and CBH was lamenting that he didn’t play RN more. There’s no doubt in my mind that RN would have gotten significant minutes as part of the above hypothetical lineup. As for MR, if you don’t think he showed flashes of his all-around game last year, you weren’t paying attention. I think he and ML probably would have gotten similar minutes with ML spelling JH at point and MR at the 2. Even if CBH went with the lineup you suggest, that’s what 3X the talent and about 10X the athleticism of the squad that did take the floor this year.
Alright, this particular hypothetical is only gonna result in me banging my head against the wall.
You made me curious
about the sample size, so I did the math. I believe I’ve included every CBH recruit.
Players who have already left through graduation or other means, and years with UCLA:
4 years JS LMR PAA MR DC ND JK MAH
(MAH was recruited by CBH even though not scholarship at first, and I’m counting him 4 years in the program though I know he had another year of eligibility)
3 years JF AA LRMAM (all to NBA)
2 years RW (NBA) Ryan Wright (transfer)
1.1875 years DG (transfer)
1 year KL (NBA, as expected) JH (NBA) Chace Stanback (transfer)
to be determined: JA ML JMM RN TH BL MM
So some brief number-crunching…17 of CBH’s recruits have come and gone. I won’t even figure KL into any of my stats, as it was 99% positive he would be a one-and-done from the start, so let’s look at the other 16. 8 of them stayed four years. 11 of them (69%) stayed at least three years. That still means 5 of 16 non-KL recruits left after two years or less. Even if you were to assume that JF, AA, LRMAM, and RW all went pro when they ‘should’ have, still 4 of 16 non-KL recruits that are gone left early. These numbers do not include Ariza, who foolishly went pro after his freshman year with CBH (yes, I know he’s good now, but he was stupid to leave when he did) since he was not a CBH recruit.
None of the above numbers include non-seniors from the season that just mercifully finished. If JMM and MM do transfer out, then 6 of 23 (26%) total non-KL recruits would have left early. If JMM and MM transfer and if TH or ML leaves before they ‘should’, then we’d be at 30% of recruits leaving early.
Granted, the preceding paragraph has a lot of ifs in it. Regardless, even the 25% we’re at with players we know are gone isn’t very impressive.
Both UCLA and Oklahoma sites
show Wright as here two years. My mistake regarding JF. (It was late when I did this – I’m on CDT, not PDT.) That makes it 6 of 16/37.5% non-KL leaving after two years or less, and 30%/35% for my hypotheticals. I guess it’s personal judgment if you want to include JF in my count of those who went pro when they ‘should’ have or not – 4 or 5 out of 16 depending on how you see his choice. As nickramz points out below, this makes it tough to be consistently a top performer. I’m curious now to crunch the numbers to see how Kansas (yes, I live here now, but they’re a consistently strong team) would compare; don’t have the time to do it now, though I may do it tonight.
Checked on Kansas...
16 of Self’s recruits have come and gone, including departures for all reasons.
4 left for the NBA – two after two years, two after three years.
1 was dismissed from the team in the first days of his soph year. (Hmmm…)
4 transferred out, all after one year each.
7 played out four years, including the seniors from this year’s team. (2 of these 7 were recruited/played as invited walk-ons.)
These numbers do not include the four (or at least three, I’m not quite sure) Roy Williams recruits that transferred within a year of Bill Self’s arrival.
Counting players on the current team, there are 29 total recruits for Self here.
Totals of 4 transfers and 1 dismissal aren’t likely to change.
Cole Aldrich may (should?) go pro after this year – haven’t read enough to know if he’s shown any leanings. Xavier Henry will absolutely not stay past two years, and I’d be shocked (again with no info) if he stays for his soph year. (2 of the transfers were freshmen in 08-09 who then ‘chose’ to leave, conveniently opening up space for CJ Henry and his little brother X Henry. Haven’t read enough to see if there’s anything to those conspiracy theories.)
Now to compare.
So…assuming for the sake of argument that Aldrich goes pro, and Xavier Henry and one other current player (probably Marcus Morris or Tyshawn Taylor would be my guesses, if you’re scoring at home) go pro instead of playing four years, and all other current players stay four years, here’s the breakdown. I’ll include both KL and X Henry to equal out the one-and-dones.
Recruits who have come and gone, including this year’s seniors: UCLA 17 KU 16
Of those, recruits staying four years: UCLA 8 KU 7
stayed three or four years: UCLA 11 KU 9
transferred or dismissed: UCLA 3 KU 5
to NBA at some point before senior year: UCLA 6 KU 7
not included in above number, but transfers of recruits from previous coach UCLA 1 KU 3 or 4
Total recruits since the head coach arrived: UCLA 23 KU 29
Of those, known transfers/dismissals: UCLA 3 KU 5
to the NBA before four years: UCLA 6 (not counting any current players, 1-2 may be good enough after soph/jr year)
KU 7
What did they do with those recruits? Conveniently, both coaches started the same year. Records and NCAA results:
2003-04 UCLA 11-17
KU 24-9, 1st round
2004-05 UCLA 18-11, 1st round
KU 23-7, 1st round
2005-06 UCLA 32-7, F4
KU 25-8, 1st round
2006-07 UCLA 30-6, F4
KU 33-5, E8
2007-08 UCLA 35-4, F4
KU 37-3, national champions
2008-09 UCLA 26-9, 2nd round
KU 27-8, S16
2009-10 UCLA 14-18
KU 32-2, ???
CBH 166-72 .697
Self 201-42 (prior to KU-Lehigh tonight) .827
Please note this is not a campaign to fire CBH and hire Self. I’ve said before and I’ll say again, I believe CBH deserves at least one more year. If the slide/malaise continues, I’d probably push for his ouster after one more year. If there’s significant improvement along with coaching personnel changes, I hope he’s still the man for many years to come. This all came about when LV’s post made me wonder about our player retention, so I did some checking to see what the numbers were. nickramz talked about the correlation between retention and sustained success, so I figured I’d check on Kansas – it came to mind easily, since I live here now. Once I start wondering about something, I want to go find the answers – so I did. Just some numbers to throw out there.
by KSBruin on Mar 18, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very interesting
So UCLA player retention is slightly better than Kansas. I take from this it is not a fair knock on CBH (Obviously more date needed.)
The other point being made
is that lack of player retention isn’t an excuse CBH can use, as Self seems to have done ok…
However, I think there must have been a difference in what was left in the cupboard when Self took over compared with the crater left by Lavin, which would be a relevant difference.
by britishbruin on Mar 18, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah...
The previous coaches… Roy Williams vs. Steve Lavin
by SuperBruinMan on Mar 18, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
how about throwing 7 years of Texas in there as well?
at least from recollection, they have had similar numbers of elite players come and go over the last 7 years
by britishbruin on Mar 19, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Great idea...
but it took me the better part of an hour to compile and crunch the numbers for each school, so I’m done. If someone else wants to take on Texas, I’d like to see it as well.
I might look at this later if the games are disappointing
I briefly looked at them when people were discussing AA not coming back for another year to play with KL; a few Texas guys left early rather than come back to play with Kevin Durant…
by britishbruin on Mar 19, 2010 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Ryan Wright was on 2 Final Four teams
Here’s the second one’s roster.
by SuperBruinMan on Mar 18, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
JF was 2 years
And losing > 25% of players you recruit before their third year is not going to help us with sustained success
Voted "approve"
But am unsure about the future. He needs to get back to final fours and most likely eventually he will win one (a few other great coaches have taken longer than three final fours to win one). Like i said I approve his job so far but it needs to get better (not over .500 better but deep tourney run better) or else this once beloved by all Bruin fans coach will be gone
I voted "disapprove"
CBH has had some great season & I hope he can get back to them, but as a coach he has let us down not just this season, but for the last 2-3 seasons. Not because he didn’t win it all, I’m realistic. But because if his failure to evaluate talent correctly. Yeah, I know he has assistants and all that, but at the end of the day it’s still his responsibility along with that huge paycheck. I don’t claim to know much about college basketball, but some of his personnel decisions have been head-scratching to say the least.
I know his 3 Final Fours are mentioned here, and I applaud him for his accomplishment but you need to build on that success. Today, I see a UCLA basketball team that is worse off than 3-4 years ago (and it’s not even close). CBH is a defense-minded coach, but he needs to find & develop that offensive spark or else he’s not the one that’s going to lead us to another banner. I sure hope I’m wrong, but you look at other elite coaches around the nation & their programs and you see relatively balanced defenses & offenses tailored to their player’s capabilities. Maybe that’s our problem? That our players just aren’t that capable? But then again, that’s not their fault but the people who gave them that scholarship…
I still hope Coach Howland is the one for UCLA. I like his pragmatism & the respect he pays Coach Wooden.
Eager to see how it all plays out.
This past season isn't even a question of offensive vs defensive balance.
It’s simply the stunning lack of both, sometimes concurrently, sometimes not. Part of that is CBH’s fault, I will concede, but some of it has to be on the players and/or scouts. How can you be considered an elite recruit if you can’t even play man defense?
I appreciate CBH’s decision to switch to the zone when it was clear that this team didn’t have the personnel to play man, but at the same time, I question why this was the case when this team is stocked by the nation’s #1 recruiting class in their second year? It just blows my mind that we could have such a highly-touted, but at the same time, highly incapable roster.
How many “elite” pitches can’t throw a changeup? How many “elite” tennis players can’t backhand? It’s utterly ridiculous. Having players that simply can’t execute the coach’s scheme should never be a problem with the type of players we thought we were getting.
I was "unsure" at midpoint, "disapprove" now
Certainly don’t see how anyone could think he got BETTER, yet thats what the poll is showing now (a 37% combined approve score to 49% now). Maybe the effect of the lack of detail in the question? I dunno. But Howland continued to make the same bonehead moves over and over this season, and that’s disconcerting.
Yes, it might seem to be a bit too much “what’ve you done for me lately”, but looking at the future of the program, it looks somewhat grim (Lee and Honeycutt leave early for the NBA, Morgan and Moser transfer, our team lacks any leadership from the Final Four teams and we have no guard play).
based on whole season (not tenure) I voted disapprove.
If we grade each year and not view his bruin career 2009-2010 was bad. He would get at best a C- but more likely a D. Hoping that it will improve and beliving he can do it I look forward to being able to vote approval for next season
He has a large # of things to "get right"...
…including much better recruiting (not only understanding who will be one-and-done like KL and JH and plan for that without having to panic and bring in a JUCO, but look at what he has left after malcontents like Gordon and Stanback have left – the cupboard is pretty bare with RN a low solid contributor and TH their only true “winner” – -and an unfinished product at that). He also needs better coaching – -from himself, on game day (discussed all year)— and from hiring better assistants who can recruit the players that will succeed in this system (or change his system and adapt to the players he has better)- such as Aboya, LRMM, RW, DC, etc.) —and who can help coaching on game day. He needs to change the mentality of the team, get rid of the lack of seriousness, get the players to play hard every play or face sitting down. That’s all for starters. If he can pull this off next year, I will a believer. I think he is a very decent human being, and I applaud his respect for “the Coach” – but next year had better be a much better year than this one. I give him a “D” for this year’s performance. Passing, but barely.
I disapprove and this is why
On paper, CBH should have at least contended for the title in a weak Pac-10 this year, and made the tournament. Three returning seniors (Roll, Rag, Keefe), four returning sophomores from a top-ranked recruiting class (DG, JA, ML, JMM) and a group of talented big freshmen are more than current tournament teams have. Many BN posters have talked ad nauseum about CBH and his staff not preparing well for the departure of so many players last year. Not much could have been done to give JA, ML and JMM more PT last year, but at the least, he should have worked them intensely during the off-season.
His sophomores should have been lifting everyday and playing as many pick up games as possible at Men’s Gym or the summer tournament circuit. JA’s lack of development and poor FT shooting, and ML’s predisposition to cramping just showed a lack of conditioning and commitment in the off-season. CBH should have been more disciplined with his players during this critical training period.
CBH has also unfortunately demonstrated a poor ability to make in-game adjustments and adjust his game plan to suit the strength of his players. That is just unacceptable for any coach, whether or not he wins games. Our team this year also did not improve much as the year progressed. Much of that had to do with CBH’s baffling insistence to play Rag and JA significant minutes. CBH just appeared to be so out of touch with team morale, and was averse to taking any risks with Bobo, Moser, Lane or MAH.
I disapprove with the job CBH has done this season and am giving him one more season to prove himself. If we don’t have a winning season next year and at least make the tournament, CBH will be on the hot seat for me.
I don't think coaches can have that much contact with them in the offseason
So that might not be on him, although you could say that it comes back to him because he didn’t recruit guys that had the work ethic necessary to not need to be told to frickin workout in the offseason.
SIMPLE COACHING COMPARISON SITUATION: Tubby Smith's last year @ Kentucky
2006… Years removed from a national title most UK fans think he inherited from Pitino in ‘98, Tubby WAS NOT fired, but stepped down. Although he probably thought he would be fired, since the program had gone from national champ, to perennial #1 NCAA seed, to NEVER making another FF since ’98. Also, a few early exits from the NCAA didn’t help his cause. Add that to the fact recruiting had dropped off since having 3 Mickey D All Americans in ‘04 (Rondo, Crawford, Morris), that never won any titles or FF appearences, things @ UK were heading downhill fast before Tubby could have a losing season @ UK. Tubby got out to Minn. before the full downward spiral could be reached. UK fans don’t accept first round NCAA losing and 10 loss seasons.
COMPARE to UCLA NOW: Howland has had his success like Tubby…we all know his accomplishments. BUT, the recruiting has fallen off, losing record (no need to beat a dead horse) but MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE ARE NOT IN THE BIG DANCE. For any TRUE bball fan, this is more important than winning Conf. titles, # 1 recruiting classes, etc. Howland is in the same ballpark where Tubby is… where will the program go? Tubby left, and Billy Gillispie came in and the FALL was reached. NO NCAA TOURNEY APPEARANCE for UK, ending a 19 year streak. Another reason Billy got fired. But that’s a whole diff. topic.
I don’t want to see Howland becum a Tubby Smith, BECAUSE HE IS BETTER THAN THAT. But this is the type of fork in the road that will define him as a Hall of Fame caliber coach, or just a good college coach.
Awful comparison
Tubby won a national title at UK and CBH has yet to win one at UCLA. At the same time, Tubby won with Pitino’s players while CBH won with his own guys. Tubby never proved himself able to recruit, which CBH has proven he can do, although in different circumstances. Those circumstances can be replicated though if the proper changes are made. The only thing that makes sense is that they were at big programs and tailed off. The circumstances are nothing alike and neither are the backgrounds of either coach.
For everything UCLA baseball, visit my UCLA baseball twitter.
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 19, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions

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