An Uneventful But Very Predictable Signing Day For UCLA Basketball
by Nestor on Apr 14, 2010 1:21 PM PDT
in Basketball
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PrintSo to no one's surprise Ray McCallum Jr. just announced his decision to play for his Dad this afternoon. It happened mins ago on what is turning out to be just another anti climatic spring signing day for UCLA (Trey Zeigler, the other so called target is also going to play for his Dad at Central Michigan). Springing signing day has never been much of a big deal for UCLA hoops under Ben Howland except for noticeable exception in RW (and even he was not really a nationally heralded recruit). Let's just say I don't find McCallum's decision disappointing. Neither do I consider it as a downer for UCLA basketball.
I do think the Ray decision (which shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone with basketball pulse, just like it wasn't a surprise when that Jrue Holiday was going to cruise to the NBA after his one season in Westwood) should once again underscore the strategic decisions (or lack thereof) the UCLA coaching staff made on the recruiting trail this season. From what I have seen and read it appears to me that the only reason Ray Jr. dragged out his "decision" into Spring was to make sure that his Dad didn't get canned during or right after the season.
One could reasonably conclude that while Ray might have been sincere in his "interest" in UCLA, his high profile recruiting also helped his Dad's cause of holding on to his job. Pretty much all recruiting experts (you can just go through the Twitter feeds of pundits such as Dave Telep and Eric Bossi) have been predicting that Ray (and Trey) is going to play for his Dad. In fact, per Telep, Ray's Dad had been so confident about landing Ray that he didn't bother bringing in a pg in his last two classes. Honestly, that is ok and I don't think we should be all that upset about it.
The question is if this intel was well known among recruiting junkies closely tracking UCLA hoops or national college basketball recruiting scene, what was our staff doing spending so much resources and man hours to pursue him? I think recruiting him so hard (at expense of perhaps not paying attention elsewhere) wasn't very strategic and efficient on the part of UCLA staff. I wish we had gone harder for kids like Keala King from our own back yard (who was snatched up during Fall by programs like Arizona State).
Still I don't feel all that distressed about that lack of strategic thinking given the signs we are seeing about Ben Howland moving to address his staff make up. Hopefully next group of staff will be more prudent while helping put together UCLA's recruiting strategy. The sky is not falling though and I have more thoughts on how nothing really dramatic happened today (in terms of being a setback for UCLA hoops) after the jump.
As I have said previously, it is not a disaster that Howland didn't land McCallum or Zeigler. If somehow McCallum ends up at UCLA, it would have been a miracle. It doesn't happen much in sports . What was more important for me this offseason was to see how the Lee and Honeycutt situation turns out. I like what I have heard from Lee to date on that front. If Honeycutt also stays put, I think that would also be a healthy sign.
The recruiting season is not over with today. We will see if Howland can bring in couple of more role players like Deonte Burton and perhaps Jon Lloyd. Let's hope they along with Zeke Jones turn out to be serviceable options while a new staff helps Howland bring in a great class in 2011. That brings us to the issue of new staff. I think this is one of the key storylines of this off-season. What kind of staff Howland will be putting together? I like what I am reading to date.
We need Howland and a revamped staff to hit the recruiting trail with a full court press and get in the for 2011 recruits from Southern California such as Angel Chol, and Norvel Pelle, and other west coast recruits such as Josiah Turner (Sacramento) and Gary Bell (Washington). Also note Tuner and Pelle's academics could be potential issues. It's the class of 2011 that will make or break Howland's tenure at UCLA.
We have already gotten good news of Lee's return. We will close out this class hopefully with couple of solid role players. Now let's hope Josh Smith is working hard during the off-season to get in better shape. Let's hope Howland puts together a staff that is more strategic when it comes to recruiting and is more effective in providing leadership by being effective communicators in Howland's staff.
So as I said the sky didn't fall. Nothing really dramatic happened today that is worth getting worked up over one way or another. The pressure is still on Howland though to get it done. Then again we all knew that around here on BN.
GO BRUINS.
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mccallum would have been nice
but it was just optimism (delusion?) which kept me believing he would come here.
as for zeigler, it seems we already have the 2 spot filled with ML and new recruit Tyler Lamb, so not a major loss.
I look forward to reading about the comments on CBH’s new staffing on here because that’s harder for me to analyze compared to player recruiting.
It was a delusional pursuit all along
It’s too bad Howland’s current staff once again seem to get caught as unprepared as they were with the decision of Jrue Holiday (which apparently was a surprise to them).
I blame Butler!
Oh well, looking forward to see how the rest of the schollies get used.
Get Burton and call it a day
Don’t know much about Lloyd (not impressed from what I’ve read though) but I don’t want CBH to just give out rides. We have 9 rides spoken for and Burton will make it 10. Save the remaining 3 for a Turner/Bell/Chol class and if TH and/or ML bolt early, we can pick up another kid. Signing Lloyd will only create a logjam with Anderson (SR), Jones (SR), Burton (Soph) and hopefully Turner. Burton is a combo but that is a lot of rides allocated for PG.
Sounds about right
But I am still unclear about Lloyd. He seems like a mystery. Then again Zeke Jones is a mystery too.
I keep on picturing Brandon Lloyd
when I look at this Lloyd’s measureables. Different people but I think he’s going to be dead weight. Some people aren’t high on Burton but the kid is athletic and wants to be a Bruin. Wanting to be a Bruin shouldn’t equal schoolie but I don’t think effort will be an issue. He may not be a true PG and lack a bit of feel for the game but I think we can at least get a good defender (athleticism will come in handy) out of him when all is said and done. And who is to say that he won’t improve? I’d invest a ride in Burton.
Athlete's are okay as PG
JF was a good PG as a freshmen but RW and DC were good athletes who became good players/PGs. If Burton is an athlete that is a good start.
Part of the problem with JA is he seems not to be a very good athlete, maybe it was the injuries.
JF was okay
but DC came in as a more polished PG out of high school IMO. Jordan’s strength was that he was head strong and highly confident, which can be both good (see Cade McNown college edition) and bad (see Cade McNown NFL edition). For Jordan, its worked out for him.
If you’ve ever witnessed JA dunk, you’ll see that he is more athletic than he appears. I think his problem is he is slow of mind. Not a lot of basketball IQ and the game seems to move too fast for him.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
Look at DC freshman stats vs.JF
JF shot better FG%, FT%, and 3 %. JF had more pressure as the starting PG while DC had it relatively easy as a backup. JF assists to TOs were better his Freshmen year than DC’s as well.
DC had to learn to play under control his freshman year
as did RW. It looked like they were used to being able to rely purely on high speed all the time, rather than having speed as just one weapon in an arsenal.
by britishbruin on Apr 16, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Makes you wonder
As you noted N, the tea leaves all seemed to indicate that McCallum was going to play for his day jut like Zeigler. I was holding out hope that CBH wouldn’t have wasted his entire time recruiting someone he knew he couldn’t get, but I was wrong.
CBH’s recruiting this year really has me wondering if he realized he had no chance at getting any more top level recruits but wanted it to appear that he did. I know this isn’t something that we would like to think about, but I definitely could see him making deals with McCallum and Zeigler for them to keep UCLA on their radar even though they knew where they were going. This helps the recruits by keeping them “undecided” and in the news and helps CBH by looking like he was in the running for top level recruits. Everyone benefits from the charade other than the UCLA program. The recruiting of Jones seems to be in a similar smoke and mirrors manner.
CBH has already landed Smith, Lamb and Lazaric, so this class is still solid. If JA or LJ can be serviceable next year, I think we will have a very solid team. I just don’t get the activity of CBH this offseason. Never mistake activity for production.
He could have gone after at least two California guards
Stephen Holt who ended up signing with Randy Bennett at St. Mary. He could have also given Ben Vozola a hard look (would have been better option than John Lloyd I think). His staff should have stayed in touch with those kids though the recruiting period and pull the trigger when it became obvious McCallum/Zeiglar wasn’t a viable strategy.
Just bad strategizing all around.
Yup.
I just hope he doesn’t burn a scholarship now just to burn it. The last thing this program needs is to be locked in to a player for four years who was given a scholarship simply because it was available and the coach wanted to save face.
Remember the other side with McCallum
It is good for McCallum’s Dad to be talked about with UCLA, AZ, etc. Detroit can’t buy that publicity. It was a good strategy from a PR point to keep the UCLA and AZs in the “running” even if it was not going to happen.
I was one who was wrong and thought that he would not play for his Dad but Nestor and everyone else was right. I was using logic, always bad in recruiting.
This just further proves the need to change the one n' done rule
Why would McCallum go to a high profile school when his sights are already on the NBA? Who cares about competing in college?
"We should have a banner up there: the only team to make the tournament without a coach." -- Baron Davis, remembering his "coach" at UCLA
by inhowlandwetrust on Apr 14, 2010 1:46 PM PDT reply actions
I think this case was different
Ray was going to play for Pops (even if he was a sure fire NBA pick). This was all about propping up Pop’s program. Ray is a nice kid. But in this case family took precedence for him. Honestly we can’t get upset at him over this.
I think we can all agree
that this is somehow lavin’s fault
"I can't believe I ate the whole thing" Homer Simpson
Who else did we pursue?
Why didn’t at least one pg recruit see what a mess we are at that position and express interest? Mystifying.
especially since JA and Zeke Jones will graduate at the same time
Really hope we grab one or two PG’s next year so that they’ll have some experience under their belt for when our current ones leave.
It really is frustrating
in a year when three of the top five players are PGs. I wonder if recruits look at the performance and eventual draft position of Jrue and think that Howland held him back. Saw what you want about Calapari, if Brandon Knight gets drafted at or near the top next year he will have established a tradition that will be hard for top point guard prospects to ignore.
Hmm, I think you're right
But I also think that the tradition that you’re referring to is that for a one-and-done, he can count on his one season in college being erased from the record books down the road.
You are right on the but part
Calipari is never relevant for UCLA. We hope to follow Wooden. Calipari’s idol is Tark the Shark, with better hair.
I also believe that
Calipari, being younger than Tarkanian, leaves better dental imprint on towels than the latter ever could.
More to the point - more sons
He already has several daughters.
by SuperBruinMan on Apr 14, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm curious...
Do you guys think that the 2010 recruiting class as presently constituted will make enough of an impact next year to make up for the loss of the seniors and Moser? I feel like we might be headed for another sub-.500 year, and if so, I can’t imagine Howland can keep his job.
Hopefully I’m wrong and Honeycutt, Nelson, Lee, Anderson, etc. all make a big jump and Smith/Lamb can make a nice impact as freshman.
Definitely
We will be solid at three positions with ML, TH, and RN. Smith could and should be great, but at the very least will take up a lot of space. The question will again be at point, but hopefully LJ or JA can seize the opportunity. Lamb, BL, and Stover will provide for a solid nine man rotation. The main concern is that we don’t really have any good outside shooters. The biggest advantage is that with a frontline of TH, RN, and Smith we should absolutely win every rebound battle. I’m not saying we will be a top 10 team (although if things come together, that is possible), but we should be better than 500.
by bruinponcho on Apr 14, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Mostly agree, but not about ML...
…have to disagree about ML. He often looks confused, seems to disappear at times, and can’t shoot consistently from 15+ or at the free throw line. I think there is a huge hole at guard. Maybe Jones can fill some of it, and Lamb probably won’t play much, but perhaps he will develop quickly and get PT next year. I just don’t see Lee or Anderson meeting the challenge. And if they don’t, hello sub .500 again…don’t expect RN or JS to be one-on-one defenders. They will get boards and cause people to change shots, but they aren’t fast enough to guard slashers or good post players. I would love to be optimistic, but the glass is really less than half full right now.
Wait a minute
prior to moving away from his natural position, ML was the team’s leading scorer at 14.6 ppg. While he may have looked lost at times as a sophomore two guard trying to play the role of floor general, I’m pretty confident that if ML is allowed to move back over to the wing he will be just fine.
I am hoping the same as well
I think Lee has the chance of being a very good player at the 2 especially if he is synced up with a healthy Tyler at the 3. Lee’s biggest off-season tasks: get up to around 200lbs and develop a semblance of an outside shot. If he does that I think Lee has a shot of having a solid season. And as I have mentioned number of times, not giving up on Anderson yet.
I'm all for hope...
…but don’t 2 guards HAVE to have a shot? I don’t know of any 2 guards who learned to shoot as a junior in college, though there may have been one somewhere. I just don’t think ML is a 1 or a 2. He has skills, but he’s also not a lock-down defender. He does get in the right place at times and finish breaks or put back misses. Without a pure shot as a threat outside, he isn’t going to be much of a true factor.
ML Not a "Lock Down Defender"?!?
He had four steals in the first 10 minutes against the PAC 10 player of the year in the PAC 10 Tourney against Randle. He was very good to great in M2M when we played it. Earlier in the year he shut down Wise and held him to 2 points and took him out of the game when we played M2M. There are more examples when we played M2M. He was a good defender and quite frankly may be the second best guard defender in the CBH era (AA was, of course, better.) I think he is very much a lock down defender. Look at the gametrackers on his man in our M2M games, he shut down his guy every time.
"Leading scorer" is a bit misleading...
…on the team that played last year. Suppose (I don’t know if he was) he was the leading scorer against Portland State. So what! They got creamed. He was a non-factor. Check his shooting percentages if you really care to make him look good. And his free-throw shooting percentages. With all of the put-backs and breaks, his shooting percentage should be well over 50 percent, and I bet it wasn’t. Take away the easy buckets and his shooting percentage was atrocious. And for a 2 guard, well, that dos not bode well.
Ah, does a Big East Tourney Team Count?
On the ROAD against a 20 win Notre Dame team he hit the UCLA SEASON high when he went for 29. I don’t think this is CSUF or Portland U? His line was 11-17, 4-6, 3-4.
In the 12 games that he was solely point from the first CAL game to the ORST game when MR played point, ML had single digits six times in 12 games. For the rest of the year when CBH played him at 2 or significant minutes at 2 he scored less than double digits 4 times.
ML can score, not all these baskets were layups or inside. There are some legitimate criticisms of ML but saying he can’t score is not one of them.
Didn't say he couldn't score...
…just that he doesn’t have a solid outside shot, which every high quality 2 guard has. 2’s need to be an outside threat – beyond he arc – -for an offense to open up. I don’t think he’s that guy. I am hoping Lamb can take that slot and do something with it, even this year.
depends
if Smith can draw double teams, things open up somewhat for other players like ML flashing close to the basket. I do think our lack of outside shooting is an issue, though.
by britishbruin on Apr 16, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Bruinponcho has it right 3 plus 1 BUT ?
One potential star in TH
One very good, maybe more in ML
One good rebounding offensive 4 who needs to work more on D in RN
Center, as British Bruins has discussed, is a position where size can compensate for some other weaknesses so even if Smith is not great we can get by
But we must have at least a good PG. Nestor rightly points out JA had nagging injuries last year but Jones or JA must step up. I agree with Bruinponcho but I would add that our season (barring injuries) next year may/likely will be determined by the PG.
Agree with everything Poncho said and would like to add...
did you consider the fact that losing one of those seniors is actually a positive step in and of itself?
Howland's staff
I don’t know if this has been brought up before, but this coaching staff situation reminds me a lot about a movie I saw recently called Damned United. The film is based on the true story of a guy named Brian Clough.. Long story short, after a very successful run at Darby, he gets really full of himself, takes a job with Leeds United without his friend and coaching partner, Sam Longson, and is subsequently fired after a record 44 days. He then apologizes to Longson signs with another team, then goes onto have a career that many consider to be the best in English Football history. I sure hope that if Howland has lost his way he can find his own Sam Longson and continue to have some success here at UCLA. All he seemed to have around him in the previous 2 years were “Yes” men. Well, except for Donny Danels but he’s gone now.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
I mentioned it (maybe others did too)
and Brian Clough’s wingman was Peter Taylor, for the record…
by britishbruin on Apr 15, 2010 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
my bad
I’d forgotten James Broadbent played the owner of the club. Still it’s a great flick with great performances by all. Definitely recommended N especially in light of our current situation.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
by bruin8uclap on Apr 15, 2010 1:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
definitely an interesting movie
felt very real. And yes, Brian Clough really did have that ridiculous accent…
by britishbruin on Apr 15, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes Men
II know nothing about the dynamics of CBH’s staff other than what I’ve read here.
One theme was that he was surrounded by “yes men” but that only Daniels would say “no”. If it is true that only Daniels would say “no” to CBH, why is he gone?
Did CBH get tired of hearing “no”?
Wasn’t the point raised by many people here that he needed to hear “no” more often?
sjh
Not sure about that
I don’t think we have ever suggested Daniels was the only guy who would say “no.” Daniels did a good job of developing bigs during the earlier Howland years. However, I don’t think any of us really suggested Daniels was the only guy who would say “no” to Howland once in a while.
As far as coaches showing up for appearances
and what not, Donny Daniels was the only coach on the staff who didn’t carry himself as a “yes” man. This of course is only based on the majority of people’s impressions of the man upon meeting him and not based on any actual conversations he and Howland might have had. As for the other coaches for the last 2 years, the consensus was they were most definitely “yes” men.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
So it was people's "impression"
that Daniels wasn’t a “yes” man. Okay. I don’t know whether Daniels was a “yes” man or not. As far as his record his concerned he did a good job developing bigs. However, Daniels was still integral part of a staff that failed miserably in devising a smart recruiting strategy. He also was the lead recruiter for Bobo and Gordon and suffice to say completely blew the scouting report for those guys.
an example of an exchange
with a coach that was not Donny Daniels
Howland: you guys think we should play zone?
coach: umm, what do you think?
Howland: I don’t think we should.
coach: yeah ya know you’re right.
This is almost exactly as quoted by a coach at a brrakfast function
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
by bruin8uclap on Apr 15, 2010 1:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
fits with Howland's comment
“was there any internal disagreement on going to zone?”
“no, but we should have done it sooner.”
by britishbruin on Apr 15, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Coach Howland
Howland’s recruiting over the past two years has been less than Bruin-like. Further, his reputation ( here in the mid-Atlantic area) is that he’s stubborn with the players….I’ve seen some of this notion as well. These two issues along with major One and Done players and transfers does not provide positive thoughts in the recruiting world.
Agree, homeadvantage
Howland is not being thought of as a good coach, not only in California, but in other parts of the country. His stubbornness, his non communication with his players and coaches, his game plans are suspect. He appears aloof. Kids out there, that play BB, hear things from other players and are making the decision not to come to UCLA. These are not positive things and UCLA is going to pay a big price in not getting top recruits. Howland needs to change his attitude and, at his age, that probably isn’t going to happen. I hope I’m wrong but the picture doesn’t seem to bright and cheery.
by Forever a Bruin on Apr 15, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Howland's personality and interest/ability to change
Interesting comments about the idea of CBH needing to change his attitude. It makes sense to me from what I’ve read here. And I also know from a brief personal encounter with him that I saw him as very interested in people and a warm, nice guy. Of course that was one very short time in a relaxed environment.
Nonetheless, i happen to know someone who is a leadership coach who says he has known Howland for some time and regular speaks with him. I have heard mixed things about this coach but he also seems to me to be someone of about the same age of Howland who may need to make some adjustments in his methods and perhaps attitude to better work with new generation. I wonder if Howland is getting good advice/support.
Bruins Forever
by bruinsince69 on Apr 15, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
College rules with players
I am not sure the college basketball situation wasn’t better when the NBA signed them right out of high school. In the future, there has to be a change. Either they sign out of high school or go to college for three years, as in baseball. What is happening now is chaos!!
Bill
Mensgym
Ben Howland vs Thad Matta
This year was brutal being a Bruin Bball fan and living in Columbus Ohio. I see UCLA and Ohio State as very similar programs. Both have top notch athletic programs and rich traditions. Both coaches have turned their programs to where they need to be. While being a Howland supporter, it appears to me that the new age kids do not like the Ben Ball Warrior style of bball. The Buckeye kids love to play for Matta with his 3/4 press and transition play. Lately, even when the Bruins get a turnover, they don’t force the issue. Both schools have lost a ton of players early to the NBA, it appears Matta can get the upper level recruits because of the style OSU plays, therefore no down years. Any comments???
But...
it appears early NBA depatures does not seem to effect Matta as much as Ben. Matta is getting the elite kids
And doing what with them?
CBH’s record in that department appears to trump Matta’s, regardless of whether his talent is “elite” or not. I’d rather win in the tournament than win after the tournament. Look at our 08 class and you tell me whether collecting the “elite kids” is all it’s cracked up to be.
how elite are these OSU people exactly?
I’ll take Kevin Love over Greg Oden; and I’ll take RW over anyone else you want to put out there (at least, until Evan Turner shows if he is an elite-level NBA player).
I’ll take DC over Mike Conley Jr.
etc
etc
etc
by britishbruin on Apr 15, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
You are right tydides
I feel Howland is a better coach and Matta the better recruiter, We will see what Matta
does with his top 3 2010 class. I will accept the Bruin 08 class a fluke and a pardon to Ben if he LEARNS from this. I was stating the many similarities in both programs. Go Bruins BBall
2010 recruits
This new class might, I say might offset our transfers. I see another lackluster season in Westwood
What is with
all these substance-lacking quickfire comments? CBH is mean! Transfers are bad! The sky just fell! They’re getting pretty annoying.
If you’re going to dispute a comment about CBH appearing genuine and warm towards other people by mentioning an interaction with him, maybe describe said interaction?
Ohio St. has missed the tourney twice in the last 5 years, and aside from their loss to Florida in the title game, have generally underperformed in the tourney. So I don’t buy that their style of play gets them the top talent and leads to fewer down years. Them doing well currently and us being down now does not prove a trend, and niether do results from the last 5 years.
Correction
Missed the tourney twice in the last six years.
You missed my point entirely
I was not saying we had far and away outperformed ohio st. (Although I believe we have) My point was that ohio st. had not outperformed us due to an advantage in recruiting due to coaching style.
To be fair
We’ve heard plenty of stories about CBH being the bad cop without a good cop that it seems at least plausible that this may be the reality. I believe at some level, CBH is going to have to change in order to get this thing turned around.
However, I do agree with you on these one shot opinion comments that don’t even have backup or provide reasons or context. That’s annoying as hell outside of a gameday thread because those are different. I also agree with you on not being particularly impressed with Ohio State’s performance under Matta, and I certainly wouldn’t use Matta’s record to try and discredit CBH.
Agree tmush!
I lived in Columbus for some time and have a lot friends in the area. They keep asking me why we can’t recruit kids to Southern California and how Thad Matta keeps getting top notch classes year after year. They used to say the same for UCLA football but Neu has changed that over the last two years. I think we have to remember that although we know defensive can win championships these are young KIDS and KIDS love to play offense. Eventhough defense wins games, most kids would rather play for a coach that is balanced. The format for winning in Southern California has already been laid out across town by Cheat Carroll. Keep all the great local talent add in a couple of elite players from across the U.S. and we will dominate. You guys can hate on Calipari all day if you want but look at the recruiting class he is putting together again. A team full of one and dones last year and in the elite eight. I gurantee you that his team will be ranked in the top 10 to begin next season and make it to the NCAA tourney. UCLA is not Butler we don’t need to get transfers and 2nd tier kids who need 4 years to develop to compete. Basketball has changed dramatically over the past 10 or so years, these kids play much more and against much better competetion. The elite level kids come ready to play at the college level immediately, they’re the equivalent of 3 year players 10 years ago. I think (and hope) that Howland is smart enough to analyze the mistakes made and return to competing at a high level. The problem is when you let things get this point you need a little luck because you can’t afford to have anything go wrong, even things beyond your control like injuries.
Stop right there
If you really think citing Calipari is helping your cause, you’re wasting your time. Not only is there the issue of the embarrassment that occurs when your school has to vacate entire seasons after the fact due to the coach being a sleazebag, but we just saw an example of his kind of “recruiting” across town. Is that really what you want to emulate?
LOL.
Tydides, I’ll just say this…you would be suprised at some of the things that go on in big time college sports. If you or anyone you know has been an elite prospect, you should know. There are skeletons in just about everyones closet, believe it!
by allbruinsrule on Apr 15, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying...?
let’s say that’s true, at least on the fringe, for every team.
Calipari’s misdemeanours have been so outstanding that he has vacated final fours at two different schools. He clearly has gone above and beyond the ‘tolerated’ level of bending rules, minor violations etc. I’m not going to claim any program is beyond reproach, but it is clear some are worthy of contempt.
by britishbruin on Apr 15, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
of course not
But in similiar fashion as Kentucky we hired Neu as our football coach. So I assume you feel the same way as it pertains to him?
by allbruinsrule on Apr 15, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you really think that is a fair comparison?
CRN has admitted to his past mistakes and by all appearances learned from them. He has paid a price for them. He didn’t parlay cheating into the the most lucrative coaching contract in college sports all the while playing dumb about past and much more recent transgressions.
The difference is night and day.
Neuheisel sued the University of Washington for breach of contract, and sued the NCAA for conspiracy, defamation, interfering with Neuheisel’s contract and wrongfully interfering with his future employment. Both entities settled with Neuheisel out of court. Very bad example dude.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
Exactly
This is the same “everyone does it” garbage that Trogans use to excuse their "school"s shitty behavior. If “everyone does it” to the level of Calipari, then why aren’t we seeing other seasons vacated left and right? We all see the massive level of cheating that goes on at SUC and they haven’t even sniffed punishment (except banning a basketball team from the postseason that wasn’t going to make it anyway), and they manage to nail Calipari twice? That means he’s even MORE blatant about his disregard for the rules than SUC is.
And comparing this to CRN is weaksauce for the reason Chris just stated. Last time I checked, CRN was vindicated by his volunteer work and a court settlement that showed UW and the NCAA to be in the wrong. Last time I checked, UW still won the 2001 Rose Bowl, so that season wasn’t vacated. Last time I checked, our 2008 basketball team didn’t actually lose its last game because Memphis blatantly flouted the rules…under Calipari’s watch (and probably with his blessing).
My apologies
The UW vs CRN issue was BS, I was referring to Colorado. I know there were several people who brought up those same issues before CRN was hired. I seem to remember the name “slick rick” being thrown around by some idiots. I myself loved the hire and have always had nothing but respect and admiration for CRN.
I don’t know what happened at UMASS or Memphis with Calipari as it pertains to violations. I read that Camby took money from a booster and someone took Rose’s SAT for him. And although I have no idea if he was involved himself, it still happened under his watch which makes him 100% responsible.
Considering all that, I still think UCLA should be able to recruit top level talent w/o cheating. I could have used several other programs as an example, but the point I was trying to make is that in a year when we have multiple scholarships open and considering our recent success in the tourney and success putting top level talent into the NBA we should have a class similar to the class that UK has incoming. Exluding the allegations of cheating it seems that CBH doesn’t connect with the kids the same way some other coaches do. To me it should be an easy sell, UCLA, CBH, Souther California(great weather), NBA.
by allbruinsrule on Apr 15, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Camby
got prostitutes paid for by Calipari. Allegedly.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
allbruinsrule
Don’t take his arguments too seriously. He previously suggested in a serious manner “Lavin vs Howland….Closer than you think.” He is just posting under a different name.
So engaging him in a substantive way would be another “Bill & Ted” exercise here on BN.
not in any way
But, I am in no whay trying to defend Calipari. I’m just saying that the business is sometimes very messy.
by allbruinsrule on Apr 15, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn't change the message
Just because the pigs are in the mud doesn’t mean you have to get in there and play. The day we hire someone as obviously crooked at Calipari is the day I call for DG’s immediate termination.
What is with
Chris09, I agree with the assesment but remember UCLA basketball missing the tourney is like the Ohio St. football team not going to a bowl game.
Great point with...
UCLA should be an easier sell to kids, This thread is about signing day and Howland should at least be able to keep up with Matta at a Big 10 football school. Go Bruins BBall
Insight
Nestor, do you have any insight into why UCLA didn’t go after Keala King, Gary Franklin, Jordin Mayes or the kid from Findlay(N.V.) Corey Joseph? Was it academics, where the kids not intrested in UCLA or was Howland not impressed with any of them?
Thanks
One and done
I like the idea of the baseball plan-if not drafted or even if they are they can refuse and go to college but for two years rather than three. If a kid is not drafted in the two round draft thyen he should be able to go to college but thye NBA must keep the player for two years. Now, if I were good enough to play in the pro’s and had no interest or ability in college education, I would go to Europe to play.
Another perspective on college recruiting from my friend a Dukie
I have a friend who is a Dukie. This from a comment related to Kentucky/LeBron James, et. al.
****************************************************
Kentucky is getting a great recruiting class. LeBron James is helping Calipari. Basically, go to KY for a year, LeBron’s company then takes over your marketing, and you get a deal with Nike.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsCqvzdO8sFullqruqyXlQc5nYcB?slug=aw-lebronwall041310
“James will go back again and again for Kentucky’s stars. Rival agents gasped when close associate, William Wesley, walked into a Wildcat game with rapper Drake. As one said, "How the hell can I compete with that?" James has made himself part of the Kentucky program. Kentucky coach John Calipari has deftly positioned himself as a favorite of James, hiring one of his high school teammates, Brandon Weems, in his basketball operations, and treating James like an honorary alumnus. It’s good for Calipari’s and James’ recruiting.”
*******************************************
As I penned above, this is chaos for anything other than an NBA Development league. This is so far away from “college basketball” as to be unrecognizable. Sorry the link seems broken.
Bill
Mensgym
Can't say how ugly this is
Bill is absolutely correct:
This is so far away from "college basketball" as to be unrecognizable
Wow. I would think that even Calipari would have even a hint of some sort of a conscience to realize this is a travesty, but then I guess that’s really the problem. If Kentucky fans and alums really tolerate this, it proves the apocalypse is upon us. Unbelievable.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
F the fans
They only care about winning at Kentucky.
It’s the NCAA that needs to step up or they will be blitzkrieged.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
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