Tony Barnhart: Expect "A Nuclear Eruption" In Alabama If Southern Cal "Skates" On Bush
by Nestor on May 17, 2010 11:36 AM PDT
in Football
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PrintTony Barnhart writes on his "Mr. College Football" blog in the Atlanta Journal Constitution (emphasis added):
If only half of what has been reported about Bush is true and USC skates on this one, there will be a nuclear eruption in Tuscaloosa, Ala. The Crimson Tide program was hammered for rules violations in 2002 and the penalties came with a considerable amount of finger wagging from the NCAA. Who could forget infractions committee chairman Tom Yeager saying that the committee considered giving Alabama the death penalty? He said that Alabama was "absolutely staring down the barrel of a gun (death penalty)" but the committee settled on a two-year bowl ban and the loss of 21 scholarships over three years.
Will the NCAA have the same righteous indignation for misbehavior and lack of institutional control, if proven, that takes place on the West Coast?
It is going to get pretty nasty if USC just gets a slap on the wrist.
Two key factors to keep in mind here: First, the pile of sleazy scandals involving Southern Cal's tainted athletic program involves lot more than just Reggie Bush. Per reports it seemed that the NCAA letter of allegations against Southern Cal didn't address allegations concerning Joe McKnight's SUV related transgressions (there is also the issue of "repeat offender" stemming from NCAA action against Southern Cal in 2001 which should bring death penalty into discussion). Second, there is the issue of self-reporting and setting the right example on how to go about addressing issues whenever something questionable emerge within an athletic department (See Michigan Wolverines athletic department).
Southern Cal by all accounts have not only shown any signs that it is actually interested in addressing its pile of scandals in a serious and contrite way. It has gone about handling the issue in a laughable manner predictably throwing its joke of a basketball program under the bus and then trotting around its AD who to this date hasn't shown any sense of remorse or accountability. Note just last week Pete was out there not denying any kind of wrongdoing during his shady tenure at Southern Cal.
It is probably a good bet at this point if the NCAA doesn't do the right thing in handling Southern Cal's renegade program the "nuclear eruption" of disgust and outrage will not be limited within our friends in Tuscaloosa.
GO BRUINS.
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This is too close to call ...
I don’t recall any story with so many rumors attached to it with no real info.
Not so much on this site, but some of the other Bruins message board sites are filled with “insiders” who know “a big SC booster” and they said … something.
As far as I’m concerned they can let this dangle over SC all year and they can announce their penalties a week before LOI day to maximize the impact.
Yeah
The posts I often see on message boards about what people are hearing from their “SC Booster buddies” are pretty hilarious.
It's crazy how many ...
Bruin fans are hanging around with SC boosters “in the know.”
That aside, this is a story I have no feel for at all. SC could get some serious penalties and SC could get a wrist slap.
The thing your post really drives home, though, is that the whole college football world is watching this story. Because I’m in L.A., I sometimes forget that the whole country is fascinated with this story. The other thing I sometimes forget is that everyone hates SC, not just UCLA fans. Everyone — ND fans, Alabama fans, LSU fans, all the Pac 10 fans, Ohio State fans — everyone despises SC. When you live in L.A. and can’t go to the mall without seeing a bunch of bandwagon SC fans walking around in their O.J. jerseys you forget that everywhere else in America, SC is the most hated team.
Speaking of bandwagon SC fans … bandwagon SC fans are so obnoxious I"ve started to actually respect SC fans who actually went to SC. It’s actually easier to tolerate SC fans who are SC fans because they went to SC than it is to tolerate SC fans who are SC fans because when the Raiders left town the only place they could get drunk and throw garbage was at SC games.
It's pretty interesting
I have actually met a few Trojan alums in recent months who are pretty cool. We go back and forth with the smack talk but they are nothing like the bandwagoning tools we see crawl all over the internets. They are actually Trojan alums who are as embarrassed about having Hello Kiffin as their head coach (and are dreading it) as many of us were when Karl Dorrell era was ushered into Westwood.
That is one of the few benefits of not living in LA
I can’t tell you how many Alabama and Auburn fans tell me that they have always rooted for us because they hate u$c*. There is a joke around the office that the only reason I got my job was because they knew I hated u$c* from my resume. With Kiffykins now at u$c*, I’m sure we will be picking up a few more fans in SEC country.
I can’t agree more with you about their bandwagon fans. It got to a point where I asked a few of my sorority sisters if they actually knew any u$c* alums, and I could only think of two that I knew. One is a nice guy (the guy I had my first kiss with), the other has nice parents, but she gets really arrogant about the trOJans (sorry, I can’t take the OJ out of trOJans).
by bruinbabe2000 on May 17, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Truthfully ...
every school has non-alumni fans and some of the most loyal Bruin fans I know, people who give money to the athletic department level fans, didn’t graduate from UCLA.
I’m not disparaging the phenomenon of non-alum fans.
In SC’s case it’s different and in part it is different because a lot of the SC fans are the ex-Raiders fans who think the whole notion of football is to get bombed and act like a moron in the Coliseum. I"m lucky I live only a couple of miles south of campus, so I’m more or less around UCLA fans. But head down to OC or the South Bay and you’ll think you died and went to Ketchup and Mustard hell.
Yep, I know all about South Bay
That’s where I grew up. Why do you think I moved to West LA after I graduated :)
I know every school has non-alumni fans. I’ve been told that the most die-hard Alabama fans never went there, and in my office, the two biggest Auburn fans didn’t go there either (with one, her dad went, with the other, her husband may have gone, but I’m not sure). And with how hard it’s getting to get into UCLA, I’m sure we will have many more in the future.
by bruinbabe2000 on May 17, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
non-alumni fans are great
i’m one of them… I’ve had my tics since 76
your right about the sc & raider fans – losers…
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's"
John Wooden.....
Let me preface by saying I'm a pessimist
When $UC* skates by with a slap on the wrist after all this, there will be frustration around the country. There will be anger. There will be calls for the heads of the NCAA infractions committee. Alabama fans will have every reason to be upset.
But will any of that make any difference? Fans can yell and scream “foul!”, but unless they have a way of hurting the NCAA financially, will their cries make any difference at all? I’m personally very cynical about all this. It will be one of my happiest days ever if I’m wrong and the NCAA grows a pair by handing down the death penalty the trogan $Cum so justly deserve. But my guess is that since college football is ultimately a business based on revenue, they will NEVER sincerely sacrifice one of their main cash cows.
Besides not watching their own teams and buying merchandise (which face it, won’t happen), what can the rest of the country realistically do to penalize the NCAA when the committee slaps the trogans on the wrist, then in private high-fives them and pats them on the back?
Well the fan outrage (in case if there is a slap on the wrist) ...
… will not make much of a difference.
However, any such NCAA "action" (or lack there of) will effectively give greenlight to all programs across the country to cheat as much as they want.
I don't want UCLA to cheat, even it the ncaa gives its approval of cheating by doing nothing to just$c*.
It’s still cheating.
In 1776, a bunch of upstarts decided that they had to do something about their governing body. A few years later, they were putting the finishing touches on the U.S. Constitution. Maybe it’s time for a few University Presidents to get together and tell the ncaa that they are against taxation without representation, and unless the King straightens its course, they are going to go independent. How about the Societal Coalition Regarding Educational Waste & Such Crapola? I kind of like the idea. Then there would be no cheating at all by any of the people on the inside, and just$c* could go do its thing all it wants in the Worldwide Wrestling Federation or whatever group would take them.
I don't want UCLA to cheat either
However, if NCAA gives Southern Cal gives the slap in the wrist then I want CRN and Ben Howland pursue every single avenue with the parameters that give us a competitive edge. And if the NCAA comes after us for any kind of secondary violation nonsense (i.e. recruits getting letters from John Wooden or what not) not only we shouldn’t be worried but we should have the entire country LOL at the NCAA (this is if the NCAA doesn’t come down with due justice on Southern Cal).
I have been planning to write something
IF the trogans skate — calling on the Pac 10 to meet and either sanction sc on its own, or vote sc out of the conference — to be replaced by a more honest team.
In my plan, I would also like to see other conferences refuse to play sc and the schools like sc.
If the NCAA cannot control a school’s behavior, rather than seek the lowest common denominator of compliance, I’d prefer to see the honest schools band together to take action. (I planted the seeds of the approach in a comment a couple of weeks ago, where I called for a Pac 9 to be reconfigured into a Pac 10 without sc.)
I have thought about writing my piece now, but there is a part of me that believes that the NCAA will do the right thing, not because I have faith in the NCAA (for I do not), but because the consequences to the NCAA — if it does not act, it will be rendered meaningless.
I hope I never have to write my piece.
sjh
I like the way you think FOX71...
I’m gonna get you a Glenn Beck “RESTORING HONOR STARTS HERE” door mat.
by GogetemBruins on May 17, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, SC doesn't deserve the death penalty ...
and that’s not going to happen.
I personally wouldn’t want them to get the death penalty — I want to beat them on the field.
SC deserves to be sanctioned and they deserve to live life under probation, where the next violation could end the program.
If SC is forced to stop cheating, we’ll beat them on the field.
Why should "death penalty" discussion be brushed off?
As Patroclus noted in a post linked above U$C* seems to fall into the category of a “repeat offender” (shocking I know) of NCAA rules after they were placed on probation in 2001. Relevant NCAA bylaw provides:
An institution shall be considered a “repeat” violator if the Committee on Infractions finds that a major violation has occurred within five years of the starting date of a major penalty. For this provision to apply, at least one major violation must have occurred within five years after the starting date of the penalties in the previous case. It shall not be necessary that the Committee on Infractions’ hearing be conducted or its report issued within the five-year period. (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97)
In this case as P noted:
1. USC’s athletic department was placed on probation for a period of 2 years (8-23-01 through 8-23-03)
2. The NCAA took away 2 scholarships from Football, and 1/2 scholarship from Women’s swimming for the 2002-03 academic year
3. In addition to the above, USC became subject to the NCAA’s repeat violators policy (then NCAA bylaw 19.6.2.3, now bylaw 19.5.2.3), for a period of 5 years from the date of the NCAA’s infraction report and imposition of penalties (8-23-01 through 8-23-06).
So sure hope the “death penalty” discussions are not casually brushed aside.
Even if u$c* committed violations
worthy of earning the death penalty per NCAA rules (which would not surprise me in the least), do you really think the NCAA is going to have the balls to actually do something about it? I’m going to take your usual pessimistic outlook on this, though I’d be thrilled to be able to join MWbruin for a crow dinner soon.
Yeah, I don't think they will
I only offered up the datapoints above to make the argument that the discussion of death penalty in this matter is relevant. If NCAA was a functioning organization that consistently applied its provision to all institutions they would be considering it. Of course there is no reason to have any kind of faith in them.
Well ...
I’m not sure if I’m brushing aside the discussion … anyone is free to discuss it as far as I’m concerned.
I am saying that IMO they don’t deserve the death penalty and if I had to guess I’d say they aren’t going to get it.
I’m not sure that SC getting the death penalty would even be good for UCLA, though I haven’t given it much thought. It’s our best game of the year and every other year it’s our best crowd at the Rose Bowl. I’m not sure the conference would be better off either, though again, I haven’t really considered.
As above, I’ll settle for them being forced to play us on an even field, without the cheating. I’m positive we’d end up with the better program if they were forced to play by the rules.
Rules
Well. Given the unprecedented trail of (alleged) corruption they have piled up over the years, I doubt there has been any other program in NCAA’s history more deserving of death penalty than Southern Cal. Plus this penalty should be in play if anyone does a straight forward technical interpretation of rules while applying them to serious allegations that are being discussed with regard to this program.
NCAA doesn’t give a lot of leeway to programs that do not self report? CHECK
NCAA doesn’t give a lot of leeway to programs that have found to be repeat offenders? CHECK
NCAA doesn’t give a lot of leeway to programs that contest, delay, deny and posit a record of (alleged) cheating that permeates through more than just one program? CHECK.
Anyway you look at it death penalty should be on the table. That should be the starting point. It makes no sense to keep it off the table.
Of course, I get it in really world the NCAA doesn’t have the testicular fortitude to do the right thing. If they did they would start from the discussion of death penalty and settle on a punishment that would be proportionally greater to the kind of punishment that was leveled at Alabama.
None of us are holding our breath for NCAA to do the right thing but that doesn’t mean we should be easily accepting for their lack of courage to do the right thing.
As for us being the better program if they were forced to play by rules, IMHO we don’t need help from the NCAA to be better than them. I am pretty convinced if UCLA had a decent coach last 10 years we would have won our share of games. We kind of PWNed them with coaches like Donahe and Toledo.
I feel pretty good about UCLA eventually getting back to where we need to be under Neuheisel with or without the right decision from NCAA. Don’t need their help to beat those chumps.
If just$c* doesn't get the death penalty, then the death penalty should be abolished.
The institutional cheating has been well-documented since before most of the denizens of the BN have been alive. The cheating never, EVER quits over there. just$c* is to universities as Hannibal Lecter is to whatever he was. They might slow down a little. They might not be quite so blatant (“Hey, McSUV, you can’t park in Cheatie Petie’s parking place – he can’t help but see your car if you do that.”) But they don’t stop cheating, any more than they can stop breathing. It’s like asking a trogan not to be arrogant.
I believe those facts are irrefutable. just$c* has not only institutionalized its cheating, it has honed its cheating skills to a point matched by none. Against those facts, how can the death penalty not be mandatory? Oh, yeah. I forgot. We’re dealing with the ncaa, a group who makes Inspector Clouseau, Sgt. Schultz and the OJ1 Criminal Jury look like Nobel Prize winners.
They deserve it,
but a 10 years of house arrest with a lojack strapped on their ankle would be better for the PAC-10 and by extension UCLA.
I just want to see a long term punishment fitting their infractions without killing them.
Yup
I don’t buy the argument of Pac-10 suffering if Southern Cal is down. The conference didn’t suffer when we were beating them 8 years in a row. If NCAA even hints at the notion that Pac-10 suffering due to a stiff penalty on Southern Cal, then they would be considered as more cynical, cowardly, gutless officials than they have already projected to date.
Also, we don’t need Southern Cal to be good. I will take just as enjoyment out of a 9-10 win UCLA program kicking the tar out of a mediocre Trojan team (out of bowl contention) as I would with winning a game with Rose Bowl/BCS on the line.
My only hope is CRN will be calling for bombs in 4th quarter even when the game is out of reach for them. That time will come because everything evens up eventually.
Who says the Pac 9 will fold?
It seems to me like a little too much ketchup and mustard flavored Kool Aid is being consumed. There is no evidence of any kind that the Pac 10 (or 11 or 9 or whatever number) will fold if just$c* is handed a blindfold and a cigarette. That sort of thinking emanates from Inheritance Hall, which has always thought that Copernicus was right, although just a little off, in his theory as to the center of the universe.
It really sounds like people are buying the plea for mercy by the guy who murdered his parents, who wanted leniency because he was an orphan.
Let’s have evidence to support the notion it will be somehow better for UCLA if USC is allowed to continue to cheat, which you know will happen if they are not sent to the aisle seat in the smokehouse.
Not a pessimist...sadly, a realist
Now that there is so much money attached to college FB and BB, there will be no self-regulating (as some people think is done in the private sector marketplace).
Just as corporation s realize its ‘better business’ to pay fines than meet regulations, the NCAA will take the heat to allow one of its perceived crown jewels to continue on its slimey road.
And others will follow.
by C.T. in Boston on May 18, 2010 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Alabama for sure, I would imagine Oklahoma . . . Oklahoma State . . .
When I consider the list of schools that have earned the wrath of the NCAA, and generally for a fraction of what transpired under Garrett’s ‘Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing’ leadership; I find it inconceivable that the NCAA gives them a slap on the wrist. Is the NCAA not a confederation of the same universities that have managed to play by the books?
I hope they go for the jugular. But, I’m not holding my breath.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
Bama vs USC
Bama fan, meet $UC’s legal department and financial resources.
Alabama
The power is in the SEC-Alabama is the National Champ and didn’t thet have 90,000 at the Spring Game? I agree not ony Alabama fans but those of many other schools will be more than outraged. The excuse for any of thier violations would be the “Bush exemption” or the “Mayo mulligan” My friends in other areas of the country think that both the NCAA and SUC are jokes.
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