Jotting Down Notes On ACC Expansion: Uninspiring Results With Stripped Traditions
Today is going to be all about celebratory and chest thumping press releases and projections of revenues (via anonymous sources to Pac-10 beat reporters who will dutifully cut and paste whatever they are served up). So I thought star the day by jotting down the notes on how the much hyped expansion worked out for ACC. There is never a perfect comparison because each BCS conference has its own quirks and idiosyncrasies. Yet I think looking at ACC makes sense because that conference expanded for the same reasons Pac-10 is taking a leap today. From a 2008 Washington Post article entitled, "ACC's Forward Progress Limited," here was the set up on why ACC made its leap into the expansion craziness in 2003:
The Atlantic Coast Conference's symptoms five years ago were easily diagnosed: diminished ego, voracious appetite and selective vision. The conference with the highest average revenue payouts, an acclaimed tradition of basketball success and a reputation as one of the most pristine collegiate scholastic associations in the country needed -- or, at least, felt it needed -- to grow.
Tired of the persistent malaise with its football clout among Bowl Championship Series conferences and intent on catching the eye of television network executives, the ACC set out to expand from nine to 12 schools in 2003 in hopes of satiating all of its competitive, financial and academic desires in one fell swoop.
Sounds familiar? Well the result at the 5 year mark was not all that impressive and it should make folks reflect before jumping for joy today. At this point, it doesn't matter. Utah is in. However, I do want to make sure we note down the points re. ACC expansion and create this blog trail, so that 5 years from now (if BN still exists), we can come back revisit this post to decide whether we were right to raise the red flags.
The Post article concluded the results were "mixed":
"I'm not sure there's been a terrifically positive benefit," said Paul Haagen, a law professor and former vice chair of the academic council executive committee at Duke University. "It has been less negative than some people feared and less positive than some people will claim." [...]
Florida State outlasted Virginia Tech, 27-22, at the inaugural ACC championship game in 2005 in front of 72,749 at the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Fla. The following year, Wake Forest beat Georgia Tech, 9-6, and attendance fell by nearly 10,000. "Wake Forest and Georgia Tech -- those aren't exactly marquee programs," said William S. Kern, professor of economics at Western Michigan. "The buzz outside of the region has not been as big as it might have been in the past."
Attendance dropped again in 2007. Virginia Tech knocked off Boston College, 30-16, before nearly 20,000 fewer fans than when it played in the inaugural contest.
As mentioned in the comment threads there was a slight uptick in the attendance numbers last year, but it wasn't all that impressive either. The numbers have been pathetic since its first year. As far as the TV revenues are concerned despite, the big K the conference signed with ESPN and the championship game, the intake per school didn't increase all that much. From State Fans Nation (one of the best and classic (in terms of blog years) ACC fan blogs on the web) analysis on ACC expansion:
TV revenues have doubled. According to an ESPN.com report on the most recent contract, the TV deal with ESPN/ABC was valued at $258 million, or about $37.6 million per year, which was almost double the previous contract. Furthermore, the ACC reported on its website in May 2007 additional revenues of $16.9 million from TV rights, $5.7 million from the championship game, and $3 million in bowl revenues. Total distribution to member schools was reported at nearly $11 million, up slightly from the $10.9 million ESPN.com reported the ACC had distributed to each school in 2003-04, its final year as a nine-team league. This at least supports the argument that the existing teams would not see their revenue share decrease with three additional teams.
So despite the impressive new TV K, the revenue intake per school didn't go up by all that much. It is a data point a Big-10 observer in the Detroit Free Press took note of while discussing the possibility of mass Big-10 expansion in recent weeks:
At the end of the turmoil, the ACC wound up a weaker basketball conference, roughly the same in football and with a baseball "championship" tournament that prohibits four teams every year from even competing.
The per-team television income remained about the same as when the ACC had nine members, and those all-important football championship games have done nothing whatsoever to create any sort of national interest or prestige.
So what did the ACC really gain for that extra million buck per school (which is not all that much for schools like Duke, UNC ... and on this cost for Southern Cal, UCLA and Stanford). I doubt UNC and Duke needed those extra teams to make their recent title runs. If anything the ACC basketball conference has become diluted with additions of schools like Virginia Tech and Miami. As mentioned above their football championship games can barely generate any interest in their own region. More importantly, as State Fans Nation noted, the expansion "stripped" ACC of its tradition:
Thus far, expansion has not improved the product of ACC football, but rather guided it further into parity. The ACC still sends its conference champion to the Orange Bowl the same as it did in 1992, and then the Peach and Gator Bowls still make their selections based on which team will bring the most fans rather than which team is more deserving (within the loosely-written rules). As was the case before expansion and before the Coalition, Alliance, or BCS, the conference's second-best team is not guaranteed one of its prestigious bowls and subsequent highest payouts.
Moreover, expansion has ostensibly stripped the ACC of its traditional, intrinsic personality as its leaders strive, almost in mercenary fashion, to expand its product into something generic, something readily-marketable, at the expense of the loyal. In these regards, from a strictly qualitative, subjective standpoint, expansion has fallen well short of its lofty aspirations to equate its football product to that of the SEC and Big XII.
So coming back to the Pac-10, right now there is still no hard numbers in terms of exactly what adding Colorado and Utah together does for UCLA. There is no TV contract in place. Larry Scott has been talking a big game but we will have to see if he can walk the walk, when time comes to extract the actual market value of Pac-10's TV footprints.
Moreover, there is no guarantee whatsoever that Pac-10 is going to be able to stage a successful championship game. It's track record in hosting tourney has been a joke (and it showed no discernible improvement this past year when Scott was in charge).
Jon Wilner for the San Jose Mercury News ran his own set of calculations based on his discussions with sports consultants and industry experts and projected that the Pac-10's revenue (based upon numbers from a new TV contract and a championship game) will go up to the range of 13-14.5 million per team from the current 8-9 million.
What he doesn't mention is that the 8-9 million number could have jumped to 10-11 million range even without Utah (or Colorado). Wilner also quoted media/marketing sources in asserting Colorado and Utah don't bring much to the table:
Three media/marketing industry sources said that Utah and Colorado bring very little, if anything in terms of additional TV revenue. Said one: "From a national cable perspective, they have no value."
In other words if Scott and his team negotiated a reasonable deal with Fox and ESPN extracting the actual market value instead of the pathetic arrangement from the Hansen regime.
So it's not clear at all right now exactly what traditional Pac-10 programs such as Southern Cal, UCLA, Washington, California, Stanford, and Oregon are getting out of this arrangement. The intake per school is not going to go up by all that much. Perhaps extra 2-3 million is a big deal for Washington State or Oregon State, but it is not all that much for a school like UCLA, which operates in the black and has the most lucrative apparel deal in the conference.
The example we have from ACC as noted above is not convincing at all. If anything it is a little alarming in how it has devalued its traditions and has not upgraded its quality of football programs. Now we could be looking at a Pac-10 conference where long standing relationships among Pac-8 programs are going to be jeopardized, just so some schools can get extra couple of million dollars.
So it will be up to Larry Scott now to not just upgrade the next TV K, but dramatically boost it. If the results of Pac-10 expansion is just as mixed and uninspiring as the ACC one, it will be a big FAIL on the part of Scott, and also on the part of UCLA officials who signed off on it for cheap dollars.
GO BRUINS.
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Good picture
I was a volunteer when the Super Bowl was in Tampa a few years ago. In addition to a T-shirt, I got offered free tix to the ACC championship game, as did all of the other 3,000 volunteers. I don’t know what other groups got the free ticket offer. I do know that the reported crowd at Raymond James Stadium was a large number (maybe 75% full), but I promise that the revenue generated by the crowd didn’t put a lot of money into the school’s pocket.
Imagine the excitement level at the Pac-12 championship game between surprising Washington State (8-4) and Utah (also 8-4) in beautiful Jack Murphy Stadium. “Look at that, Vern. I’ve never seen such a show of sportsmanship. The players are going through the stands shaking hands with both the spectators.”
I would like to see Scott’s revenue studies and projections. He had to have started with a projection of what he could have done with the league staying as is. I would like to compare that projection with the new, improved league.
Nestor, can we do another poll, now that things have simmered down a bit:
With the addition of Utah and Colorado, the conference is
Better
Just the same
Worse.
FOX 71
Happy to observe that Fox 71 continues to come in from the golf course, head baked and all, and tend to the BN threads. I don’t have the time to dedicate but Fox 71 is “the man”. I especially liked recent post emulating a young, hip, person, on some SC related post.
Bill
Mensgym
I'd go see a PAC champoinship at the Q (even a Utah/WSU match-up)
As the ACC POV below points out, venue will have a major impact on the viability/excitement factor surrounding the game.
By most accounts, the re-birth of the bball tournament has been a success given its venue/location. Similarly, I think a football championship game can have the same success if the venue/location are strategic.
While we’re thinking of polls…what about a poll on the best venue for the championship game?
Here would be the most reasonable options (just guessing):
Q – SD
Mausoleum
Rose Bowl
Candlestick/Santa Clara in 2014
Oakland Stadium
Quest – Seattle
Invesco – Denver
University of Phoenix – Phoenix
Am I missing any?
I believe you have them all
There is still Candlestick as the alternative Bay Area venue (pre-2014). But, no. the place is in about as bad of shape as the Mausoleum.
formerly bruinhoo
Question, Nars
You say “By most accounts, the re-birth of the bball tournament has been a success given its venue/location.” What’s the definition of “success” in this context. My recollection (based on recollection, not experience) is that when we finished first in our league, we thought the tournament was bad because it could only cause a lower seeding. And when we didn’t finish first, we didn’t give a crap because if we won the tournament and got invited to the NCAA tournament, we would be toast in the first round.
Next questions: If the tournament was not televised, would you go? If the tournament were abolished, would you care?
A View From the ACC
BN, a few issues as I think folks often link independent factors with expansion to create a mega fail lump.
Some of the factors that were in no way a product of expansion:
-Poor coaching at existing member institutions: UNC (Bunting), NC State (Amato), UVA (Groh), GT (Gailey), Clemson (Bowden) Maryland (ever declining Friedgen). All hired pre-expansion and fired post. (Friedge is in final season now).
That’d be like Karl Dorrell’s failures being blamed on expansion if he was coaching now.
-The coinciding collapses of Miami and FSU from 2003-2008. Both schools bottomed out just as expansion came into fruition.
-Basketball futility at NC State, UVA and GT (post 2004 Final 4).
Those factors, all unrelated to the expansion created the mediocrity in football that’s persisted until very recent improvements through coaching upgrades. Basketball-wise we’ll see what happens at UVA, NCSU and GT, they haven’t had near the success on the hardcourt of VT, BC, Miami (tourney appearances, top 4-5 ACC finishes).
Here are some of the “expansion factors” that contributed:
-Lack of “round robin” basketball schedule. As a football guy I could not careless but this was an issue to many coaches and fans in the heartland of the ACC that is Tobacco road AND in outliers that didn’t get the UNC & Duke at home sellout every season.
-Baseball tournament. Outside of this years UNC team the bottom 4 teams in the league really don’t deserve to go. Yes, in theory they can win it all but the 8 team format has worked well in multiple locations. This years attendance struggled because UNC wasn’t in the field for a Greensboro tournament. Essentially taking the largest fanbase out of attendance for a tourney 40 minutes away from Chapel Hill.
-Conference title game attendance boils down to 2 issues.
First the league banked on Miami-FSU carrying the football world. Obviously that didn’t happen. With the game staged in JAX and Tampa it was out of the conference’s major sphere of influence. Think putting a Pac-10 title game in Tempe and then Washington vs UCLA being the showdown. Major mistake. I’m a Charlotte native and the game will do much better here. The Florida location was a poor decision admitted by ACC higher ups. Charlotte gives the league a centralized locale. Wake’s closest but VT, NCSU, UNC, Duke, CU are all a little over 2hrs away. GT is 4. FSU and MD are drivable on a Friday and Miami-BC are both 12+ and 14+ hours driving but an easy flight.
Secondly the teams involved have been rough. I mentioned the absence of the Miami-FSU but if UNC, NC State, Clemson (until this season) had made the title game the attendance story might have been a bit different. Of the 5 title games we’ve had Wake and BC were in 3. They’re small private schools that have limited alumni bases and even less alumns/fans that can travel. VT has travelled well but their fans, with economy began to opt for Orange Bowl tickets instead of ACCCG & OB tix.
Just some thoughts because a lot of people, especially Tobacco Rd folks, tend to lump all these factors in as a product of expansion when they’re not all related by any means.
http://inthebleachers.net
by InTheBleachers on Jun 17, 2010 6:27 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
the coaching factor is an impt one
Well over here we have Lame Kiffin, who made Karl Dorrell look legit w a BCS berth on the line. Sarkasian is unproven at best and will be tested when Locker is gone.
Harbaugh will be leaving for either Michigan or the pros. Not totally sold on Chip Kelly yet and our own Neuheisel will have to produce a title contending squad in next 2 seasons. So lot of uncertainties here as well.
by Nestor on Jun 17, 2010 6:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree re: coaching
The ACC is a good example of expansion gone bad. There were a number of factors, but I think the most important is that the quality of football in the ACC declined immediately after expansion. I wonder if recruiting during these expansion phase years is difficult, because the drop was pretty much across the board.
I doubt the expansion would be viewed as a failure if FSU and Miami had stayed nationally relevant. The conference was essentially designed for these two programs to play in the ACC title game. With these two programs sliding along with the rest of the conference, it simply hasn’t worked, and I wonder if all parties involved wished they had a “take back”.
Of course, most of this commentary has to do with football results, but there are other negative factors that exist whether the teams were successful or not, ie lost traditions, scheduling quirks, basketball scheduling, increased cost for non-revenue sports, etc.
I am going to take the wait and see approach, but I am not excited about losing basketball home and home, playing every team in football, and the potential divisions. I hope it works out, and I hope that adding the Denver market along with a sleeping program (CU) and recently hot program (Utah) is worth it. After all, there are no “take backs”.
by AllHailMightyBruins on Jun 17, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
It is important to remember here
Pac10 football >> ACC football
Utah football should make the Pac a little better
in the short term.
Let’s face it, outside of the newly-sanctioned team over there, there has been no Pac team other than maybe Oregon that has been competitive on a national level for the past few years.
We’ve had improvements under Neuheisel, and even Dorrell had the 2005 season, but there’s still a lot of room to get better. I think we are moving in the right directiont, but can understand if general audiences are not yet excited about UCLA football. Other schools – Cal, Oregon State, even Stanford – have had flashes of brilliance but nothing in my mind that’s consistent enough to generate national attention.
I don’t know what the long-term revenue projections are, and I don’t know if they make sense. That said, I don’t share the same pessimism I’m seeing on this board, because I think there should be enough short term benefits for the Pac to capitalize on. The long-term success of expansion will require Utah to prove it can stay competitive in a bigger conference, but will probably depend more on existing Pac schools to continue their improvements.
I am not sure about that
I doubt Utah would win 8 games last year if they played in our conference. Vice versa if we played in MWC even with last year’s team we’d win at least 9 games out of MWC. So I don’t really buy the notion about Utah being some kind of football power.
Divisions
I have to think that the odd way they split of the divisions in a non-geographic and non-traditional conference format has doomed the football part of the conference. The old metro conference teams (Ga Tech and FSU) and the Big East teams are not all together so perhaps some historical rivalries are lost from these conferences and the original ACC. Geographically the divisions are all over the place and don’t make sense. Even I know the members of the old Big 12 and SEC because were they are geographically. I still have no clue about the ACC football divisions…
The decision to split up Miami and FSU opened the door to a random distribution
Though one other issue that the ACC faced in creating divisions is the geography of the post-expansion conference. Even had the ACC desired a pure north-south division, that would have required dividing the Research Triangle schools – only two of Duke-UNC-NC State could have stayed together, with the 3rd joining Wake Forest in the other division. Now as it happened,. the ACC split up those schools anyways, as part of the perfectly logical process that put Florida State and Boston College in the same division.
The ACC also had the problem of the distribution of its (historically) strong football programs. Out of the ‘major’ football programs; Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Georgia Tech lay in the southern half of the conference, while only Virginia Tech is located in the north (no one expected BC to be particularly good, at least in the long haul). Under its particular circumstances, geographically consistent divisions would have led to a competitive imbalance between north and south.
formerly bruinhoo

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