Larry Scott Feels The Heat From Pac-10 Athletic Directors Re. North-South Realignment
This is getting interesting already. Now Larry Scott is officially saying that the Pac-10 has not decided how the conference will be split up. From Jon Wilner in the San Jose Mercury News:
"We haven’t decided yet," Scott said. "There’s a process we’ll now go through, working closely with our athletic directors, to dig into those questions — whether to have a championship football game and whether to have divisions."
As Wilner notes this is interesting because just 48 hours ago there was chest thumping by Colorado AD in the Denver Post:
But the lack of resolution on the division split is curious given that Colorado AD Mike Bohn told the Denver Post that the Buffs have been assured a slot in the South Division with Utah and the Arizona and LA schools.
So what might have happened? Well here is more from Wilner (emphasis added throughout):
Either:
1. Bohn was misinformed or overplaying his hand, which I doubt.
2. He was misled, which I also doubt.
3. Scott figured that his vision — a North-South split with the Bay Area, Oregon and Washington schools grouped together — would be fine with everyone involved.
Except it wasn’t … and the athletic directors let Scott know about it on a conference call yesterday … and now the league is re-evaluating …
In other words Scott totally misjudged the long standing traditions and cultures within the Pac-10. I am going to guess Dan Guerrero is one of those ADs who would have felt a lot of heat from his constiuencies - UCLA alums and students - given the comments here on BN and other Bruin online communities. What is interesting though is the following from Wilner:
It’s entirely possible that Scott, a conference newcomer, didn’t realize the extent of the NW schools’ objections to a North-South split … Or he was simply so focused on the 16-team alignment that he never bothered to gauge sentiment on the 12-team format.
If there is something to the later, we should be a little more worried about this expansion. From more I read about this, the more I get the sense that Larry Scott hasn't really thought this through. Something that shouldn't be very comforting to either Gene Block or Dan Guerrero.
Whatever the final resolution ends up being, I hope the UCLA officials are laying down bottom line figures in terms of financial returns Larry Scott is going to deliver to our university in next 5 years. There is another important takeaway from this.
The discussion going on here on BN and other UCLA online communities matter. It is not a coincidence that the strong reservations expressed here and other places coincided with the ADs expressing reservations to Scott. Remember just two days ago we read on ESPN how other plans besides North-South alignment weren't getting traction among Pac-10 officials and how the NW coaches were going to be "OK" with it. All of that changed within 24 hours.
As I said the conversation taking place here matters and we should continue to collectively watch these developments as closely we can and call out these officials as soon as something doesn't seem right. We clearly changed the momentum of Colorado dictating what should be done to our conference within less than 48 hours.
GO BRUINS.
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Here's another way to look at it
At this point in time, if Colorado isn’t put in the southern slot, what are they going to do? drop out and become and independent? join the MWC or WAC? Go back to the big 12? nope. They are in. They have no better option but the pac 10 going forward regardless of what division they are in.
Maybe Scott implied it would all work out, and told them it makes sense they would be in the south, but didn’t really promise anything to get them in, and now they have to live with reality. If they didn’t get a firm agreement, than I think they are stuck with what the rest of the conference wants to do.
Unless Colorado can produce something showing their agreement to join the conference was conditional on being part of the LA/AZ division, they have no leverage and can’t do anything about it. Even if they could produce it and back out, they don’t have a better option.
My guess is Scott knew how he wants this to play out, and he got Colorado on board without directly promising anything, and now they are in and have to deal with what the conference decides.
by silverlakebruin on Jun 17, 2010 2:42 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, I can see that as well
One thing for sure. There is lot of media posturing going on. We just have to make sure UCLA is well taken care off. And as you know with our administrators, sometimes we have to make our voice heard a little bit to make clear what will or will not work for us.
Yep
As I said yesterday, Scott has the leverage here, and UCLA needs to step up and assert its rights and our willingness to torpedo this if our demands aren’t met. CU has no leverage. They’ll do what we want because their other option is to go crawling back to the Big Tex conference. Sensing that, Utah will do everything they can to make CU agree, because without CU, there is absolutely no reason to keep Utah, and they’ll get kicked out as well.
It’s Cali + Arizona in the South, just like the map says. Take it or leave it.
Not just that
If California schools banded together they could force the NW schools to accept the deal as well. Without California schools – specifically LA schools – there will be no “PAC” conference.
yep
For better or worse, the CA schools have the ultimate weapon, because they are the core of the league. Adding Colorado means that Washington isn’t the only non-CA program that is historically important and influential (great football history plus big dog in a big market), but I’d think that just about anything the four CA schools agree on would happen, unless it was blatantly bad for everyone else.
I’d also bet the CA schools could force unequal revenue sharing on the league, but I think they’re wise not to screw with the league in that way. On this issue, however, I’m virtually certain they get their way.
Yeah--what was Colorado promised (if anything)
This portion of the Denver Post piece was referenced in a prior thread: “Playing in a south division instead of a north with the Bay Area, Oregon and Washington schools was a must for Colorado to accept an invitation. Its largest out-of-state alumni base is in southern California.”
Well was it a must or, in the words of Bill Shakespere, was it merely a consummation devoutely to be wished?
Or did the Post get the drift of the conversation wrong?
Or is this about to come undone?
It is Scott’s job to make sure this kind of silliness never occurred.
Colorado's "must" is silly
Everybody’s largest out-of-state alumni base is in southern California. There isn’t a very big base of anything in Corvallis or Pullman.
Anyway, Colorado, maybe you should just keep quiet a little. You are a zero, and basically taking dollars away from the Pac 10 schools. If I were commissioner, I would drop you like a bad habit. And Utah, of course — well, it’s just Utah. In retrospect, I’m not even sure there is an actual Utah. So you keep quiet, too.
I actually think it was CU who got it wrong
Keep in mind that if the Pac-16 went through, they were going to be shipped to the Texas + followers + Arizona school conference
It makes no sense to have them be shipped to where they probably didn’t want to be in a 16-team arrangement, only to be give them their choice in a 12 team arrangement
Obviously, that division was not a good idea
I have ot remind myself that Larry Scott represents all the Pac-10 schools, and not just ours. However, there is no doubt that some schools have more clout and traditions than others.
Interestingly, I think to myself, which schools I would not miss if they weren’t in our division (I am talking football only). It comes down to Arizona, ASU, Oregon State and Wazzu. I don’t feel a dire need to play those schools every year, although playing in Arizona might help with recruiting. So I would be ok with any alignment that kept us with the other schools.
But you have to remember, that is exactly why Nebraska left the Big X(II), and lest we forget, that is what engendered this whole conference realignment business. Nebraska was stuck in a lame division that simply had no hope of ever competing for TV revenue with its counterpart. It will be pretty difficult to create two divisions that will carry the same weight in terms of tradition and TV appeal. I honestly can’t think of any split that would make me happy as a fan, because I would essentially lose interest in whichever division UCLA wasn’t in. I watch other Pac-10 games. But now? Doubtful. There will inevitably be a weaker division and it will be even worse for those teams than it was prior to the expansion.
We should have kept just Colorado and stayed at 11 teams, just like the Big X did for a long time, and waited for the right team or teams to want to join as they did with Nebraska. Between the TV network and the addition of Nebraska, the Big X just hosed everyone else in college football, and the others are left picking up the pieces.
But hey, what do I know. Iām just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Support for your point about accepting an 11 team conference: "Be quick but don't hurry."
Coach continues to tell us things even after he has left us.
I would have been fine with the Pac 11
Alas, now 12 teams are a given, and we have to fight tooth and nail just to avoid catastrophe. It’s sad.
it was Pac-10 or 12 only for me
11 could have worked scheduling wise, but CU wouldn’t provide much value as an 11th member given their financial and athletic issues right now
Seems like 12 was necessary to get Colorado
by SuperBruinMan on Jun 17, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Colorado was necessary
to not have Baylor as one of the 16. Don’t necessarily see Colorado stating they wouldn’t accept unless we moved to 12.
In the immortal words of the pin I got while an undergrad: Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Agree
I watched as many Pac 10 games as I could because they had an impact on UCLA. I didn’t watch Big 12 north games — only the Tx schools (more out of curiosity than assimilating to Tx).
It would be ironic if dividing the Pac 10 e
resolts in a net loss of viewers because or biggest market, LA loses interest in the other group of teams.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Jun 17, 2010 3:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oops
Trying to post from iPhone with fat thumbs
sjh
by Class of 66 on Jun 17, 2010 3:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Divions & imbalance
In terms of competition, division imbalances are going to be inherent in any sort of division setup, regardless of sport. The power of teams ebb and flow every few years. Nebraska and Colorado had just come off national championships when the Big 12 was formed, and at the time, Texas and Oklahoma were the weaker teams. Things can change awfully quickly – and this is true in all sports. The NFC East was once a ridiculous division with 3 legit NFC champion contenders at the top. Or the AL East, where today we see the two best teams in baseball, and two other teams that would be running away with any other division if they were placed there.
Now in terms of market reach, the Pac-10 does have an advantage over the Big 12. While both conferences have a major state as its anchor, CA vs. TX, UT dominates the entire state of TX in such a greater proportion than any CA school dominates CA. Texas dominates the states market in a much larger way compared to A&M, Tech, to say nothing of Baylor, than any of the CA schools could ever dream of. The Big 12 was thus always doomed to be unbalanced once it was realized in the late 1990’s what the potential power of market size and $$$ was in collegiate athletics, especially when it was all centered on one team in the division. This past week should have made it crystal clear
-————————-
Shifting gears now….
I hear this all the time. That we should have just “waited for the right team or teams” to want to join.
The problem with this statement, is what would be the right team or teams? Part of the problem is that we’re no longer in 1990, when Notre Dame wasn’t the only power team that was independent. You had Penn State and many other schools playing independent football. Since then, every school (that is a candidate for the Pac-10 anyways) has been snatched up by a conference (some are BCS schools too), sans Notre Dame.
When you look at the geography too, there’s nothing left on the west coast that fits that isn’t already in the Pac-10. We’d have to go out east to Texas as the next school, as we did try for with the Pac-16. However, the issue with Texas is complicated. Beyond their own issues of arrogance and demands for their own network, we also have the Texas state legislature – the same ones that got Baylor packaged into the Big 12. Yep, that’s where the “Tech problem” originated – Texas wasn’t going anywhere without Tech. That was why the Big 10 didn’t take them, and Texas not wanting to go to the SEC, it was Pac-10 or stay with the Big-12/10.
And with OU going to wherever UT was going (not to mention OSU and Pickens various donations to ensure they’re together), bringing Texas is going to start a super conference no matter what conference picks up Texas in the future, and we’re back to where we were a week ago. Now though, Texas is going to start their own TV network, and if it is successful, I wouldn’t be surprised if Texas goes independent with the inevitable death of the Big12-2 in a few years. Either way you look at it though, any expansion to our conference that included Texas would have most likely required us expanding far beyond 12.
The other issue with the comparison to the Big Televen is that they’ve always had Notre Dame as their big prize. They wanted to force the issue with Nebraska, thinking the Big 12 would collapse, superconferences would form, and ND would be forced to go with the conference they fit best in. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Big Ten had that idea all along – get Nebraska, force Notre Dame to come in, and fill out the 3 remaining slots with Missouri or some Big East schools since they would probably collapse next. However, if that didn’t work, they’d still get Nebraska as their 12th school and play to see what happens next. Basically, they hedged their bets.
Now if Colorado had all along been our plans for team #11, then our move to bring ‘em in early was our version of hedging the bet. Problem is, our bigger prize isn’t a single school like Notre Dame – it would have been a huge collection of them, which apparently upset the checkbooks of TV networks.
So in sum, 11 would never have worked for us. That the Big Ten stuck at 11 for 20 years was more a product of them holding out hope ND would turn, but when the Big 12 teetered, they thought they would force the issue. Now they’ll just make do with 12, go to divisions and a CCG etc., and be done until the next round of talks comes up in 3-6 years.
And if the Pac-10 and the schools had indeed talked about numerous scenarios, as sources have alluded to, then I’d hope that going to 12 was the contingency for a failure of going to 16. What supports that argument of course is that they picked up CU early, in the hopes that it would force the creation of 16, but the contingency of 12 had CU already present so it was a win-win. Of course, that question then beckons… in the list of plans presented to the conference, where did staying at 10 rank compared to everything else, from an overall perspective?
Like I said, the PAC-10 got a little bit pregnant
which is a polite way of saying we got #*@%&d.
The only schools to get screwed in a PAC-16 would have been the Arizona schools that would have been outclassed in my opinion. With 12 schools, everyone gets hurt by the split. 10 was perfect and Scott screwed it up without making sure that he could get to 16.
We got the worst possible result.
+1
He gambled big, and came up short when Texas backed out. Effectively he/we/pac-10 got used by Texas.
Utah? Seriously? How do we go from adding major schools to this? Could have held out for more a year or two down the road.
Hope this dude doesn’t play poker.
strangely enough
A lot of the Texas people believe they got used by the networks in an attempt to preserve their monopoly over CFB and their hold on the SEC/ACC so go figure. If there were really were more powerful forces at work, then frankly I don’t think any expansion beyond 12 would have worked
As for holding out a year or two later… what schools would we be talking about a year or two down the road? And where does our contract negotiation next year fit into all this?
I ask these questions because the same points get brought up every time
and we keep answering again and again
Utah was not going anywhere. They were never a hot commodity to begin w. This point has been discussed ad nausea. It doesn’t matter at this point. Keep up the focus on current topic – divisions. Thanks.
by Nestor on Jun 17, 2010 4:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
No where did I mention Utah at all – I’m just addressing the fact that these points get brought up time and time again by those against expansion (particularly these schools), and its always the pro-expansion people that get told they have no basis for their claims.
And before all the talk, I was pretty much for the status quo, but as you said, that doesn’t matter at this point.
Status quo over this anytime....
The division setup isn’t going to please anyone, not sure how this helps us.
decision pushed back until end of July
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/23311/how-the-pac-10-will-be-divided
Translation: they had made a decision, then realized it wasn’t going to fly, and are only now going to do full due diligence. Sigh… this is exactly the sort of crap that made me opposed to adding Utah; juggling everyone’s needs is just going to be a big mess :(
A few things
I follow this blog religiously (Thanks Nestor et al!) even if almost never post, but was out of the country for a while so apologies if I missed these thoughts being expressed in another thread already:
1) Why not do away with divisions all together and have each team play the 7 schools closest to them (either geographically or by some historical/traditional measure) every year – plus 2 that are not in that category every other year? An example of this would be UCLA playing SC, the Bay Area schools, the Arizonas, the Oregons or newbees annually plus 2 of the other 4. That preserves the current 9-team format. The top 2 teams would then play one another in the championship game (with very clear rules about tie-breakers, of course). Admittedly this is will piss some other schools off, but they want/need a presence in our territory – not vice versa – so hopefully we are negotiating from a position of strength on this.
2) As you may be able to surmise by my handle, the prospect of no annual trips to the Bay Area keeps me up at night – I haven’t missed a Bruin game up here in over 10 years. I was ambivalent about expansion, but have to admit, it never occurred to me that something this crappy might come to pass. Who do I contact to lobby to keep us together in some way with Cal and Stanford?
3) I say we put our championship game in Dallas – at Jerry Jones field, or whatever it’s called. It’s not that far away and would give us an annual presence in Texas – showcasing our “best” two teams. I’m sure this is a crazy/impractical/stupid idea, but whatever we do, we should leverage that game into something as meaningful as possible.
1) We’re not sure if we’re sticking with 9 or going to 8 conference games. There’s pros and cons of both – an obvious pro is that we can schedule more OOC games and we aren’t as likely to screw ourselves when it comes to BCS time – an obvious con is that we won’t face every school every year.
Your geographical idea has some merit… since all our rivals are geographic, it guarantees your rival game. However, a question off the bat with the geographical issue is… why not just split into pods based on geography? Also, that “schedule nearest 5” or 7 or whatever has a matching issue… for instance, CU is the farthest out. Lets say its nearest 5 are Utah, AZ, ASU, USC, and UCLA. However, for UCLA… but our nearest 5 might be USC, AZ, ASU, Cal and Stanford… so how would that work out?
2) The name was posted in one of these threads
3) Jerryworld? I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic here, but I’m not sure how you can be worried about Bruins attending NorCal games and keeping our presence in the Bay and then advocate sending a CCG off to Jerryworld… which, by the way, both Texas and Oklahoma fans absolutely loathe the idea of moving their rivalry game to (which is what the Big12-2 is thinking of doing to replace the lack of a conference title game now)
If we want to keep a presence in Texas, schedule home and homes with Texas and A&M and so on
No worries
Yeah – I have a bit of a soft spot for Dallas because my Dad went to school there and is a fan, but I think we can both agree that JJ is an ass. Apparently he now thinks the depleted Big- 12 has a shot at Arkansas and ND – what a joke. Dallas is probably a non-starter for the championship game – for so many reasons – including that I think the less Big-12 championship game is there. Just threw that out there as a thought – Vegas would work too. Just as long as it’s not someone’s home stadium.
Anyway, I’m all for a geography-based pod system – I only included the tradition aspect because I hadn’t really considered where the other teams would fall. I also like this system because it is unusual and allows some interesting options – including non-overlapping pods like you point out. Plus it may allow this Colorado mess to be swept under the rug. As to how each of the pods would lie – I’ll have to think about that one …

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