The Slippery Slope Around Southern Cal’s (Initial) Propagation Of Baxter’s Lies
So Blue Me's post on Dillon Baxter's fabricated allegations against five other schools right when the Trogans were getting pounded in the national media about the NCAA hammer, has generated some interesting reaction. The By Law Blog, described as "the unofficial blog of the NCAA compliance," asserts Baxter's "fib" (kind of a cute word that minimizes serious accusations against major D-1 programs that was blown up nationally for a 48 hour period) is "likely (on technical terms) not a violation."
While we respect the strict technical reading of the NCAA bylaws by the "compliance guy" on BLB, there seems to be a number of problems with his reading and analysis that leads to his final conclusion. Before we even get to that, we should also make it clear that while we think NCAA needs to look a close and hard look at this, the responsibility here is also on Larry Scott of the Pac-10, as his office was dragged into this web of lies via the much publicized letter blaring Baxter's fabrications that Trogans pushed all over the national media. We expect Scott to take similar decisive actions as Mike Slive took as the Commissioner of the SEC, when he dealt with Hello Kiffin's first round of smearing of Urban Meyer.
Now going back to how NCAA fits in this equation, let's look at the NCAA bylaw brought up by Blue Me (emphasis added throughout):
NCAA Bylaw 10.1, which addresses "unethical conduct" and includes "Knowingly furnishing the NCAA or the individual's institution false or misleading information concerning the individual's involvement in or knowledge of matters relevant to a possible violation of an NCAA regulation."
Note the emphasis on the second part. True in this case Dilon Baxter is not part of an NCAA investigation. However, the provision comes into play when Southern Cal's administrative officials (including its "beefed up" "compliance office") used his allegations file essentially a letter of complaint with the Pac-10, and then blast it around the national media. We don't find BLB's minimization of this lying stunt very convincing:
Just like I have no idea why Baxter made the claim in the first place, I have no idea what prompted USC to send this allegation up the ladder to the Pac-10 without more hard prove. But my guess is not that it was blind faith in the words of an 18 or 19 year-old. Rather, it was most likely a decision to first make sure that if something was occurring it stops, and to sort out what actually happened second.
If we are reading that right, the author is saying that it's okay to make a false accusation because some violation might be occurring, drag other major programs into it in a national manner, and then attempt to humiliate them in the national media, just because you want the said unsubstantiated violation (which would be rather easy to investigate internally) to stop. Then if it turns out that the accusation is false and there never was a violation, oh well, that's just part of the sorting out process.
That is an extremely dangerous, slippery slope argument and opens up a Pandora's box. By that reasoning it would be perfectly OK for highly coveted University of Florida recruits such as Ronald Powell (from Moreno Valley, CA) to claim that Trojan boosters/agents connected to Southern Cal coaches were offering his parents free housing in Orange County and a fancy European Vacation, even after he had committed to Florida, and then for Florida officials to promptly fire off letters to the SEC and to their beat reporters about Trojan tampering with their recruits. Surely, NCAA would not want to create that kind of situation with such casual interpretation of their bylaws. There are also other issues here.
BLB also didn't see "any damage" inflicted in this situation unlike the one involving Dez Bryant:
Even in the world of the NCAA bylaws, which seek to show there's a competitive advantage in even the slightest deviation from the rules, it's hard to see what the damage is here. In Dez Bryant's case, the damage is clear: a student-athlete with questionable eligibility continues to practice and compete. Sure, the character of the other schools and coaches was wrongfully attacked, but an apology was made and USC has come off looking worse than anyone at the end of this episode.
Well let's lay out the damage beyond the slippery slope scenario detailed above. Trojans pushed this story hard (and boy they pushed it by blasting that letter out to ESPN and all other trad. med outlets) right when the sanction news was exploding inflicting severe damage on their program. This was a classic case of "damage control" on their part through distraction tactic.
They went on the words of an 18 year old and drag the names of 5 other schools through mud. It is naive to assume there was no damage done, given the names of those 5 schools ran on ESPN's sport ticker for 48 hours (based on what appears to be totally fabricated charges). It was pretty clear to many of us (not just us) that the letter was sent and pushed around as a way of distracting from the ongoing mess in Southern Cal. Those accusations were meant to smear the names of coaches like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban (programs the current Trojan head coach has had a "history" dating back to his days in Knoxville). That kind of stunt had the impact on potentially imposing tangible damages on the reputation of those schools.
Moreover, it is really naive to assume that the whole web of lies was just concocted by Dillon Baxter. Even friendly Trojan beat writer in the OC Register is pointing to the possibility that "someone - perhaps a member of the USC coaching staff - told Baxter to make up the story." Scott Frost from UW Dawg Pound (Husky fans are interested in this b/c Washington was one of the schools smeared by Southern Cal in this mess) also brought up a very interesting angle. He speculated (building on the OC Register piece) that the idea that McNair would be involved in this is not too crazy given McNair at the time was Dillon Baxter's coach as he was the RB coach at Southern Cal. If that was the case then:
I forgot to mention that McNair was the running backs coach and Baxter is clearly a running back. The more I think about it, the more plausible this angle seems. If McNair was behind this and USC knows that and is hiding the fact, that’s an NCAA violation — while they’re on probation. Good luck having those sanctions reduced! They may even increase them!
Well the NCAA cannot increase sanctions at this point. That is out of the question. However, the McNair angle is worth exploring in addition finding out who handled Baxter's nonsense at the time. So uh yeah, the NCAA officials wouldn't be prudent if they were just to casually dismiss this as some kind of "fib." They ought to closely examine the details around this latest scandal as noted by Blue Me in response to BLB:
Then they should launch an investigation
Interview Baxter and the compliance official separately. Allow Baxter to clear the air and tell them what happened, and what he told his compliance official and/or coaches. Any inconsistencies will show that someone is clearly lying. They already know what the compliance official reported to the Pac 10.
A couple of 10 minute interviews and a quick check of phone records and this thing comes into complete focus. Easy.
If the NCAA is too busy to look into this, then I guess this type of unethical behavior from one of its student athletes and/or institutions is deemed status quo.
A status quo that would devolve into a dangerous slippery slope of lies and innuendos, in which NCAA institutions will be able to get away with hurling dangerous and reckless accusations against each other, by dismissing it as harmless "fib" from 18 year old "student athletes." That is the kind of scenario that will continue the efforts of rogue institutions like Southern Cal, which has proven to be cavalier when it comes to respecting the integrity of the game. We doubt that is what the NCAA had in mind when they were drafting its bylaws.
So, if the NCAA and of course the Pac-10 is interested in preserving the integrity of the game, they should be launching an investigation into this mess (as Blue Me pointed out above, it shouldn't be that difficult).
GO BRUINS.
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2nd time in 2 years
that Kiffin and his merry band of weasels have pitched false allegations of recruiting violations by other schools to the media. Today his targets are Meyer and Saban, tomorrow we could wake up to CRN and UCLA on one of those ESPN tickers. A clear pattern is emerging and that’s why I think it’s important the NCAA not sweep this under the rug as some sort of silly misunderstanding. A form apology letter won’t suffice.
Nice post.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
that's why ken
Norton should have his name stripped from anything asscociated with UCLA.
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's"
John Wooden.....
Plausible Deniability
The key word in the Bylaw is “knowingly.” For a violation to have occurred, USC must have intentionally provided false information. Consistent with past practice, USC concocted a way to submit information to the NCAA that was probably false, but which USC could later claim it did not know was false at the time it was submitted.
As many on here have mentioned before, the similarities to the Nixon White House are striking.
P.S. I like to relish the downfall of Troy as much as the next guy, but I sometimes wonder if we spend too much time on this stuff.
I think
Something like this is worth spending the time on and examining it as a way of preparing for expected attacks from them. I fully expect Kiffin to launch similar attacks on UCLA. It is coming. It already happened under Pom Pom, when he sic’ed the Poodle against CRN. So def. worth looking into it.
Moreover, we did spend a lot of time on Reggie Bush and all other issues. It turns out that we were more than justified in doing it.
I agree with Nestor totally on this.
When they lie and get away with it, the lie takes on a life of its own and relatively quickly becomes historical fact. The best example of this is the continual blather about Coach, even though there never has been and never will be the legendary scintilla of evidence to support the lie. But that lie has become truth in the bizarro universe surrounding the cesspool on Figueroa.
Each lie they tell needs to be exposed publicly and quite loudly. They will of course just go into spin mode on Lie No. 1, while they move on to Lie No. 2. The point is that Lie No. 1 is laid bare for the world to see. Someone mentioned recently that it seems reasonable simply to assume that anything Lamey or Mikey says is a lie. They sound like “Comical Ali” who kept swearing that the Army and the Marines were in the process of being pushed back into Kuwait.
In some jurisdictions
“knowingly” is on a par with, and can be satisfied by proof of “a reckless disregard for the truth”.
With more and more executives creating “plausible deniability” the standard has moved toward reckless disregard.
I’d be interested in seeing how the NCAA has interpreted the standard.
sjh
I sympathize but ...
The Trogan Propaganda machine runs to make $C look good but these days that’s hard to do so they go to plan B: smear other programs to create a “They all do it” defense. By reinforcing this in the minds of fans and sports-writers they can soften the criticism of their violations (and recall that turning a blind eye to your players who reap illicit rewards gives you a recruiting edge so this isn’t exactly a ‘victimless crime’ – $C stole at least one championship away from the rightful team).
The ‘school’, its boosters and their press LAT-ckies put time & effort into spreading their propaganda but there is no ‘equal but opposite’ organization refuting them. So a few years from now, after the details have been forgotten, they are hoping they can make vague references to other schools ‘poaching’ their players when they were vulnerable (or maybe when the McKnight sanctions are handed down?) and the fans, writers and recruits will swallow it. In the court of public opinion, a lie not diligently refuted becomes ‘the truth’.
However, if we fan-bloggers make a big enough deal of the sleazy and false accusations which were possibly a violation of NCAA bylaws then maybe it will ‘stick’. Maybe $C won’t be able to revise history about this whole thing and garner undeserved sympathy and get away with it.
by KnudsenRockne on Jul 10, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to agree with Nestor.
It’s just one more incident in which they are thumbing their noses at the NCAA and the rest of the D1 schools. Another arrogant act. In every day life, you can’t go around slandering people with out the possibility of a lawsuit. Why is this any different?
If it was just Baxter’s doing, he should be suspended. If the NCAA finds that the institution was involved in some way, then additional sanctions should be in order.
Maybe those fives schools should sue sc for defamation of character and see how that plays out.
I don't think an institution can be defamed.
There are similar torts, but I don’t think defamation is one of them. (This is off the top of my head – no research.)
I wasn't sure on that one.
I would think there would be something on the books for an institution.
Those that are casual observers, might not ever hear the apology and thus never know that said college was not guilty. Now I don’t want my kid going there because said college has a bad reputation. Just my thoughts.
The School That Couldn't Talk Straight
“Rather, it was most likely a decision to first make sure that if something was occurring it stops, and to sort out what actually happened second.”
This sounds like it is the modus operandi of the "Uni of 2nd Choice," simplistic decision-making that exposes these insufferable bozos as the type of ‘leaders’ on the battlefield, who when presented with the moral dilemma of whether locals are innocents, will growl: "Kill ’em all, let God sort them out."
by C.T. in Boston on Jul 10, 2010 10:51 AM PDT reply actions
Truth is the great elixir.
Your slippery slope analysis is right on!
My other takeaway is that some of the other commentators are guessing and then drawing questionable ethical conclusions without knowing the truth. For example, an essential element of Blue Me’s analysis contains those magic words reflecting an absence of knowledge, "[M]y guess is not . . ." and then proceeds with his or her guess that the most corrupt athletic program in American history was innocently trying to sort out what actually happened. The OC writer’s analysis is equally full of supposition including listing 4 possible options and then opining about feasible and hard to believe causes of the lies. The OC writer then admits, "I have no proof. . . ." These dudes (or dude and dudette or is it dudess?) are opining in the stark dark.
Your point though is that under any scenario, an NCAA rules violation has occurred. And the NCAA and the PAC-11 (one school, I can’t remember which one, won’t compete for the Rose Bowl this year (nor next!)) had better step up, get the facts and impose appropriate discipline on the alleged school, Baxter or both. (God, I hope it is both.)
Good point, Peggy
If you start with the fundamental premise that just$c* never has been, is not now, and never will be in violation of any rule, regulation, law, ordinance, social convention or anything else (which seems to be the party line in the comicals), then of course any punishment they got was too harsh, and any criticism is unfounded, etc. The trogan apologists never want to examine that fundamental premise, of course.
Once again, it’s easy to praise the beautiful new clothes the emperor is wearing, as long as you buy into that major premise.
trojan actions
Through enough crap around, show you are trying to comply and be a good law-abiding school-The AD absolute dummy- should realize that Sample is almost gone and miles Brand is dead so the protection of his slippery slope is going too. In Japan he would fall om his sword but gutless Garrett would probably miss but it would not be his fault. His smoke screens are just that and even 2 of my SUC alumni want nothing to do with them until changes are made. I vote for Pat Haden.
Haden
My only question about Haden as a replacement for Garrett is what has he done as a member of the southern cal board of trustees to stop this insanity. I guess the answer is we will never know because the board of trustees members who have presided over this embarrassing soap opera are not talking. Haden though on the surface is an attractive alternative but unless he has asked hard questions, he is merely an enabler of a dysfunctional collection of dissemblers.
Actually, their best bet would be Urban Meyer as the new athletic director. He would provide excellent supervision of the football coach.
by peggysue69 on Jul 11, 2010 4:45 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Urban Meyer as AD
As Lamey’s boss, this is too delicious to contemplate. Though, I would hate for any decent human being to be infected by Unrepentant, Soulless Corruption.
Haden is a trOJan, and hence part of the problem
It has been my experience that a typical trOJan thinks that athletes and athletics are OK no matter what. The only sin is getting caught. Haden was part of that program for years. Did he catch a terminal case of trOJan arrogance? Well, let’s consider how many times he has spoken out and demanded that the status quo be changed. I’ll list all the things I’ve heard from him:
1.
2.
3.
They need to bring someone in who will say that cheating will not be tolerated, and that if you cheat you’re gone. They need to bring in someone who would have said no to OJ2. Someone who would have shown Cheatie Petie the door long ago. In short, they need someone with integity.
That will never, ever happen, because the trogan mind set will not allow it to happen. They might bring in Haden, but only if they’re convinced he will not make any waves. And he won’t, because he’s a trOJan. He was part of the problem back in the old days.
I wonder how much he got paid?
Help Wanted: Outsider With Integrity
The only person who will change this once and for all is an outsider. I say this because there is no evidence anyone on the inside is complaining about this unending nonsense. Now if Haden or somebody else is complaining, then I stand corrected. And I am unaware that Haden, a lawyer, even wants to become an athletic director.
by peggysue69 on Jul 11, 2010 4:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
ESPN is at it again
I saw an advertisement for an upcoming interview with Cheatey Petey. I won’t set the DVR for that.
by BruinFanGA on Jul 11, 2010 7:03 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
The main problem with BLBs argument in my opinion
is the parsing going on with NCAA rules. Member schools are not meant to parse and avoid violations on technicalities. We forget that the rules are meant to be enforced by member institutions, and they are meant to be enforced honorably.
The intent of that rule is to make sure member institutions, players and the NCAA are truthful with each other when discussing violations or potential violations. Baxter clearly was not and is clearly in violation of NCAA rules.
Parsing and technicalities are for the law. Rules governing a voluntary association of self policing members are not.
by silverlakebruin on Jul 11, 2010 11:10 AM PDT reply actions
Good point.
The spirit of the bylaw is to keep programs from crying wolf (or using accusations as tactical weapons) but face it: the NCAA won’t do much about this anyway. After disciplining $C for their many violations, responding to this would just support their ploy of playing the victim.
The best outcome for this would be for fans and sportswriters to remind HS athletes of Kiffin’s ‘credibility gap’ during recruiting season as long as he’s head crotch coach at $C.
by KnudsenRockne on Jul 11, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
NCAA might not want to anything (for now)
However, the responsibility is really on the Pac-10 to take action as SEC did with Hello Kiffin when he pulled the same stunt v. Meyer last year.
Thoughts From Bama
Excellent article and some very good comments posted also. As a part of the SEC I thought we were done with the kiffen crap. He spent more time in the SEC “principals” office last year than time on the field. I find it hard to believe this 18 year old came up with this all on his own. The choice of schools that were accused seem to make it that much more suspicious. Washington with coach Sarkasien will be a thorn in lames side given a little time. Florida, the history is pretty well known.about the kittens issues there. I guess he had to throw Bama in because of the recent BCSNC. The story gets really thin when you consider Bamas depth at running back that we would pursue someone we didn’t even recruit, knowing that making contact with him would be a violation of NCAA rules. Lame Kitten may not know the rules, but you can be SURE Nick Saban does. I enjoy the Bruin Nation Blog, and keep up with whats going on at $UC. At Bama we took our punishment like a man, even though the textbook case was very thin, if not for recent prior violations it would have probably been a non issue. To see $UC stonewall, block , hinder and do everything possible to drag their investigation to a halt. Not to mention lying to recruits, or maybe they believed nothing would happen to them because they were above the law. Bama cooperated fully with the NCAA and to see AD Garrette acting like they had won a medal or something really angers me. I think this issue should be thrown in with the Joe McKnight Landrover issue and see if the NCAA can come up with some more charges before the current ones are even served. I smell a lack of institutional control on top of everything else coming their way. And Kiffen is a walking, talking violation going somewhere to happen. Best of luck, GO BRUINS!

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