Keeping Perspective After A Frustrating But Not Surprising Loss To Kansas State
by Nestor on Sep 4, 2010 9:52 PM PDT
in Football
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PrintFirst of all congrats to our friends at Bring On The Cats. Their boys took it to us and got it done infront fan inspired home crowd. It was a lot of fun going back and forth with them all week. I sure hope regular BN community members will show the same kind of class we got from guys over at Rocky Top Talk, after their two back to back heartbreaking losses against us in last two years. They are good people over there and they have a team that will most likely be in contention to go into the Big-12 championship game like they were till the last day of regular season. Good luck to them.
Speaking of the loss, DCBruins' post game thread post has filled up. I went ahead and rebumped a post from couple of weeks ago pointing out how we have a huge season opener coming up at the Rose Bowl next Saturday. While there are many who looks ready to quit and move on (and good riddance to them), would like to hear from those who are showing up at the Rose Bowl next weekend in that thread.
I am not going to engage in lot micro analysis at this point of the night. There will be time for that sometime tomorrow and beyond. In the meantime I will excerpt a passage from today's gameday roundup post:
I am not feeling all that great about how today is going to go. We know if Bruins lose today it's not going to be the end of the world. However, what I am not all that excited about is the gnashing and waling that will ensue on message boards, intensified and toxic cynicism from the local tradmed that will surround the team, even if the Bruins give a great effort today.
Guess I didn't realize that lot of toxicity would also come in our comment threads from drive by posters, trolls, who were mostly absent during the long off-season when we had repeated, drawn out discussions on what should be the expectations heading into Rick Neuheisel's third season into Westwood. Instead we are seeing analysis from so called Bruin fans who sound just as savvy as Chris Fosters, Bill Splashme or a clueless and classless hack like TJ Simers from the LA Times.
None of us are happy with today's loss. Losing sucks. It is going to ruin our Sundays. I know we have experienced many bitter Sundays over last 10 years but we are still not used to it. However, that doesn't entail losing perspective and drawing definitive conclusions right after one game of the season.
There were lot of positives in my book from today's game. I was very encouraged by how our OL looked. I was encouraged by our ground game (especially the solid debut of Malcolm Jones and determined running from Jet Ski). Our special teams was exceptional. Yet at the same time the performances of our defense (especially the scheming from our staff) was disconcerting in the second half. The self inflicted errors through penalties and dropped passes were excruciating. Our WRs as a group were mostly atrocious and that is tough to take given they are supposed to be one of the strongest part of our team.
Then there was Kevin Prince who except for his TD run had one of the more frustrating days as a Bruin QB has had in a while. Yet as frustrating as Prince was I am nowhere close to giving up on him given he was just getting in rhythm. This is coming from someone who clamored for Richard Brehaut through a good chunk of last season. Despite Prince's disappointing stat line, I thought we saw enough from him, which he can build on for coming weeks.
There should be no excuses from coaching staff. We will have plenty of time to hold them accountable if they don't get this program definitively turned around in next 2 seasons. At the same time over here the ridiculous bitching and whining needs to stop. If anyone is looking to hold CRN "accountable" after one game, they will need to find another website. If people have specific points and reflections they want to share, they will need to do methodically and in a sober manner. Long reflections should go into fanposts. People should lay out solutions and more importantly what we should be specifically working on for Stanford.
There are lot of room for constructive criticisms. However, what we are not going to tolerate is definitive conclusions based on datapoints from one freaking game. More on this game later tomorrow ... err ... I guess I mean today.
GO BRUINS.
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since we have that picture was chosen
Coleman should get no more carries this entire season. He is slow and doesn’t even run with power, which is what he’s supposed to do. Franklin looked pretty good in there, as did Jones. That should be the 1-2 punch
frustrated but optimistic
Yea some of the bitching was simply garbage and like you said those spewing it wont be here when we turn it around. The Offensive line impressed me today by holding there own and I also am no where near giving up on Prince. He had a rough day no doubt, but his throws looks much tighter this year and he has a lot of zip on the ball. Sucks we lost, but we never gave up. I’m not sure why, but this game reminded me of the year we lost at wsu on the last play with cade under center 1997 I believe. As long as we improve each week I’m feeling good about our team and coaches. We could have just as easily won this game. Put me in the optimistic category. Go Bruins
by westwood12003 on Sep 4, 2010 10:34 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
N, you are correct
I am definitely disappointed about today’s game. There were many mistakes made, by both the players and the coaches. These mistakes arguably cost the Bruins a season opening victory. It is a bummer. And yes, it is frustrating to see how UCLA made some of the same mistakes today that have made the Bruin football program a mediocre one over the past decade. However, this game was the first contest of the season. We as fans can’t give up on our team, this was only the season opener… against a quality Big 12 team… on the road.
We can’t call for the firing of coaches after only the season opener. We must support our BRUINS through their upcoming games, especially the conference opener. I will be at the Rose Bowl next Saturday cheering our UCLA Bruins on.
absolutely
Mistakes we saw today were all to familiar, yet with proper perspective, like you said first game, very tough venue against a quality team that could be in position to win the Big 12. I saw a lot of positives from our offense today that makes me believe we will be putting up more touchdowns in the red zone, loved the no hesitation to go for it on 4th and 1, where previous regimes would have taken 3 points. I see a lot of room for improvement which makes me smile because were getting the guys which can make it happen.
by westwood12003 on Sep 4, 2010 10:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for putting things back into perspective...
I know we are all frustrated as hell after watching the game, but in my opinion there were some surprising positives in addition to the negatives, and hearing soery many fans talk as if the sky is falling after one game is a little disappointing.
I was very impressed with the O-line, even though they enjoyed a bit of a mismatch. Now these guys have a collective start under their belt as a group and will only get better. The other positive is that I don’t believe there were any injuries. I hope this trend continues! Also, I was very impressed with the freshmen, specifically Malcolm Jones, who had a few nice runs, and Anthony Barr. On that note, the running game in general was much improved over last year in my opinion. I hope it continues to improve. Lastly, we need to find ways to get the ball in Josh Smith’s hands more often!! He will be a game breaker, IMHO. Watching him run, I was proud that he was actually wearing blue and gold, and not our competitors colors. I will be fun to watch him put in work this season.
The negatives have already been echoed over and over already. Price wasn’t really ready for the start. Another week of pratice under his belt would have done a lot of good IMO. I think the dropsies were contagious today. I want to believe that it was first game jitters, etc. I guess we’ll find out next week. Coleman looked slow and sluggish. He seemed to be running in slow motion. My guess is that Jones will get more carries next week. He’s a beast. Lastly, the Defensive front is a work in progress and I thought they were OK, given the lack of experience and amount of time that they spent on the field, especially in the first half. I won’t pretend like I’m some defensive expert, but I thought there were too many times when guys were out of position and too many missed tackles.
The only important thing from this point forward is follow through.
If the coaches and players are able to follow through this season, correcting their mistakes, and more importantly, focusing on each game, one at a time, I think we can win any game on our schedule.
A lot of mistakes were made from what appeared to be timing issues, predominantly on the receivers part, because the majority of those dropped passes were in the vicinity of making plays. On that note, if the players are able to use this loss as motivation for improving upon these rookie mistakes, all the of pieces are there to make our team competitive on any front. I’m hoping to see them follow through this season. Improvement, building upon itself.
Defense, however, is another story. I still can’t believe how many times that DL got blown through by the opposing OL.
The most annoying thing to me were the Dorrelian punts
On 4th and 3 from the 40, and 4th and 5 from the 36. These are not single-game data points — they continue a trend since CRN got here, which in turn continues the trend from Dorrell, which in turn continued the trend from TD.
Has nobody showed CRN the statistics about punting on 4th and short from within the opposing 40? How come the relentless optimism suddenly relents when it comes to gaining a few yards to keep the ball?
Those decisions, in my opinion, cost us the game as much as anything else. They were “not-to-lose” decisions. As if we have a Baltimore Raven defense and field goals win games in college. We’re still playing for the field goal. CRN did not coach to win, and we lost.
An equally conservative move was having Taylor Embree return punts, when we supposedly have all this speed on the team now and Josh Smith was a first-class returner as a frosh at CU…but never mind.
yea
I was thinking the same thing when we were at the 36. But at the same time we had been punting inside their 10 consistently and forcing turnovers, so sometimes you have to take the percentages in that regard and punt. I wouldn’t call those “not to lose” decisions, but I definitely can see your perspective and would like to see more attempts to go for it on 4th down if our offense is in sync.
by westwood12003 on Sep 5, 2010 12:00 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
agree on PR, Disagree on Punts
Our kicking game is awesome and a weapon. We pinned them deep. The first TD came after a good punt right? In any case, I am fine with punting when we did in that game. If our punter was not so awesome, I would agree with you.
But 100% agree on punt returns. Embree cannot break a return. He is there to Fair Catch. But Smith as a WR with so much speed it seems like he would be great.
by DCBruins on Sep 5, 2010 8:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
One first down on either of those punts would've won us the game
Who cares about pinning a team that your defense cannot stop? They rushed for over 300 yards. Pinning is not as valuable as scoring. 20 yards of field position are not worth the potential 3-7 points. In college football, it better be easier for your offense to gain 3-5 yards than for your defense to stop the other team, because college defenses are rarely good enough to be reliable.
Pinning isn’t winning. It’s merely the difference of a few yards of field position that isn’t worth a lick once they march in the endzone. We pinned them to start the 2nd half too, on the 10, and they waltzed in with no problem.
If we want to win any games this year, (save WSU), we will have to score 30+ points. CRN was playing for a 20-19 win and got what he deserved.
The Punts! The Field goals!
I was having uncomfortable memories of last year.
I’m not going to dwell on whether we should have punted or gone for it in those situations. My problem with punting (or kicking field goals) is that it indicates our complete inability to put together a single determined possession where we drive down the field and impose our will on the opponent. Every single possession sputtered out and died an ignominious death resulting in a kick of some sort.
The final possession, in which we scored in a matter of 3 plays was even at the time a clear example of “too little, too late.” We need to play like that when there is a lot of time on the clock and not in the closing seconds of a game we are losing.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
+1!
Yes, these are patterns from the last two years, not a one-game datapoint. I only wish that were true.
Why do we have to be namby-pamby when the same coaching mistakes are made over and over?
We’re not quitting on the season or the team. For example, I’m going to almost every game, home and on the road.
That’s bull. The team is so much better, we should expect better decisions from our coaches by now.
We critics of the coaches are the most hopeful. We expect a very good season if the coaches wake up.
GO BRUINS!
uclahy/bluebland
We have read multiple posts from you bitching and whining essentially about same issues without offering any new perspective. If you don’t have anything specific new to add at this point, move on. If you keep filling comment threads with same stale, repetitive takes … you will be gone. We are not going to miss you. This will be your only warning. Thanks.
I'll be at the Stanford game
And won’t post again at least until after.
I was trying to introduce the perspective here that mistakes in college can be compensated by fearless decision-making by the coach. We’ll get better at preventing mistakes, but I’d like proof that we’ll get better at minimizing their COST. For example, I might be the only one here who believes that our penalties were no big deal yesterday. Penalties happen in college, even by some of the best teams. The key is making them mean little when they do.
I did appreciate your points on being aggressive
Going to incorporate them in a post of mine today. However, bb … I think in your comments elsewhere you are not adding much. Also, don’t wait till Sunday to comment. Stick around every day … think through it a little more … before firing away … just for the sake of venting. You have been around a while. Might as well set good examples for the newbies and keep this place as sane and reflective as possible even during tough times.
If this CRN experiment doesn’t work at the end, so be it. We will move on in 2-3 years. In the mean time let’s do our best in not making rash conclusions about big picture after season opener. Thanks.
Agreed
I should’ve kept in mind the drive-by newbie aspect and the tense blue-balls atmosphere after a tough opening season loss. I was trying make my points without venting, but I can see how it can easily blend with the roars and thus contribute nothing.
Dropped passes were the worst
Among all of the things that went wrong in the game, that was the one that really hurt since those were missed opportunities. The penalties can be mitigated as the season goes on, but the Bruins can ill afford not converting on so many golden opportunities. Hopefully with more practice time the team can find their rhythm, but the flip side is dropped passes at the worst time have been a plague for a while.
The ending was disappointing, but there is room for improvement. The fact that Kevin Prince drove the team down the field and almost tied it up in 2 minutes should speak volumes about the team. They fought to the end. Now they just need to learn to close it out. Let’s just hope for no more injuries and better concentration from the WRs for the next game.
It was disappointing
that the team did not seem ready to play. They came out dropping passes from the outset. The offense could not get untracked for most of the game. The defense was unable to get stops at the most crucial points in the second half. The loss of Brian Price really showed. There were many missed tackles throughout the game. The bright spot to me was that the offensive line was decent and should get better with the return of Harris. We actually had a semblance of the running game. I do expect the passing game to improve as Prince gets more practice time. Josh Smith was the best player on our side of the field. It is just a shame that we lost a game we easily could have won. The Prince fumble shows the downside of the Revolver and was a crucial play in the second half. By no means am I giving up on our team. Go Bruins.
I stopped reading the postgame thread midway through
It’s just too much
But I have a question:
Did Dietrich Riley see the field today? If he did, I didn’t see him making plays. Since tackling was a big issue in the game, I was wondering if Riley with his hard-hitting reputation in training camp could help spark up the D.
Riley did not play today
Twitter feed: @dexterfishmore
by DexterFishmore on Sep 5, 2010 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Deep breath...
While watching this game, I found it difficult to see a whole lot of improvement. A lot of that is my own frustration, I’m sure, but GEEZ…
I have no idea what bizarre affliction the receiving corps came down with that gave them hooks for hands, so I guess all we can do at this point is hope they get over it.
I really can’t fault the coaches for wanting to keep Prince in there. If memory serves me right, we haven’t seen consistent, week-to-week play from a QB since Drew Olson, and that was five or six YEARS ago. So I can appreciate the coaches wanting to get a guy and develop him… I just wish we could keep one healthy long enough for it to pay off.
Seemed like the D was getting pushed around, but there’s a lot less experience out there than we’re used to. Combine a KState OL that can open up holes with a running back who knows how to use ’em, and… you get a lot of film for these kids to watch, I guess. I am concerned about the lack of tackling though… we have GOT to take care of business there.
On the bright side, we seem to have the beginnings of an OL and a running game, which are good things to have. It’s not hopeless by any stretch of the imagination, but like I said, I’m frustrated….it kinda feels like we’ve been in “re-building” mode since about 1998…
Keeping perspective is difficult...
…after spending months and months chomping at the bit in anticipation of UCLA football. I couldn’t sleep Friday night in anticipation of seeing our boys take another step toward the redemption of Bruin football….
Clank. First pass bounces of of Pressley’s hands.
Sink. That feeling after a feeble 3 and out.
Curse. Watching KSU waltz right down the field on our D with barely a fight from us.
And so it went from there…
But I’ll be at the Rose Bowl on Saturday because each weekend is a new chance to “get it right”.
As passion-filled Bruins, please understand that irrational reactions may occur after months of build up waiting for our boys to hit the field. My disappointment wasn’t that we lost, it was HOW we lost…and honestly, that loss was flat out Dorrelian. CRN has to be better in preparation and motivation.
But here’s the thing. Whereas Dorrell would have a game like this and try to sell us that things were actually OK, I believe CRN and staff realize that a repeat performance this Saturday at the Rose Bowl is unacceptable…and not unacceptable to US as fans, but unacceptable to the entire program.
Anyone calling for coaching changes at this point is an idiot. It’s game 1. Truthfully, I’ll take a season of building this team up as long as they are ready to punch those punks in the mouth on Dec. 4.
+1
I am completely with you on this one. You articulated my feelings completely at this time. We have heard so much garbage from USC cheaters and their cohorts during the offseason. We are all so thirsty for winning. But for those of us who understand that our team is making steady progress to finally beat those SOBs crosstown, this pain will subside.
You got that right Bub!
12-4-10 should be written on the calendar of every person who ever even applied to UCLA. Even if you couldn’t get in to UCLA, mark that day down! (I realize that a subset of those who couldn’t get into UCLA is anybody with a sc baccalaureate degree so this point does not apply to them.)
One year during the Donahue doldrums, we were losing to the likes of Oregon State in the Rose Bowl. It was the week before we played sc. The key to this is that it was just 7 days before the trOJan game. Terry punts from the OSU 40 yard line with about 2:13 left in the 4th quarter making no effort to try and win the game. (We were down by like 12 points.). Giving up is what PE majors call it.
As the crowd boos (rightfully), Jeff Strand leans into the mike and coos: “Oh, you really don’t mean that. If we win next week, all will be forgiven.”
We did and all was not merely forgiven, it was entirely forgotten.
by peggysue69 on Sep 5, 2010 7:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
nice!
i too was very disappointed that we didn’t seem ready to play but i don’t get anyone asking for a coaching change? i think CRN will be here for as long as he wants the job but i would like to see someone else get a chance at QB.
Prince has been in the program for 3 years now and just doesn’t look like a prime time performer. I hope he proves me wrong but if he struggles in the first half next week they have to hook him!
i’ve waited for the Stanford game all year long since our tailgate in palo alto where we had to listen to the jerks call CRN slick rick while playing beer pong (beer pong? just drink a beer) so i hope we come out of the tunnel like a pissed off grizzly…
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.
Toledo's 1st year
I think it was Toledo’s 1st year, it was McKnown’s 1st year as a starter and we opened up against dreaded Washington State in Pullman. We lost. My assumption was we would go 5-5-1 and win our last game against sc. (That’s when we never lost to the university of satanic culture.).
We never lost another game. Who knew Wash. St. would win the PAC-10 and go undefeated until losing in the Rose Bowl? Who knew we would stick it to Texas in Austin 2 weeks later? After 1 game, who knows anything?
The point is, after yesterday with its dropped passes and too many players on the field when we stopped KSU on 4th and a centimeter, we don’t know. Sure, this arises in the context of a decade of losing or mediocre seasons (and 1 victory for the ages, 13-9).
But with the changes CRN has produced, anybody who asserts in writing that we are dead meat like some of those frightened and timid souls in the post game thread, they need to pull themselves together or in the case of the utterly courageless, counseling or perhaps a time of meditation with the BN Chaplin.
If it turns out that CRN and CNC or Prince or even Forbath can’t get it done, then they will be gone—they know that. But right now, we do not know what is in store. That is all we really know.
And that is but 1 reason football is a great game.
by peggysue69 on Sep 5, 2010 7:29 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Thank you N for putting up this post, yesterday's thread became ... well, disgusting at points.
I was at a Tavern with other Bruins who follow things closely and go to all the home games and many of the away games. Our consensus was disappointment, yes, but also that we were definitely improved. The running game looked like a whole different team. JetSki hung on to the ball even though everyone was trying to take it away. The snaps were not an issue (as we feared they might be), and we were moving the ball better. I am of the mind that Prince wasn’t ready to start yesterday (even though I agree he is our number 1). They were in a hostile place and I think the comfort of playing with the qb you’ve been playing with would have helped, especially the receivers. I was really surprised by the dropped balls yesterday. In practice, the intensity between the receivers and the coverage has been intense, so they should have been prepared. On the other hand, I was not surprised to see Presley drop the 1st two, I’d seen him drop quite a few in practice. I guess if one reads comments from Chow and Rick, they were really surprised by the drops as well. But again, I wonder how much of that has to do with the lack of knowing each other (KP and receivers). I’m not worried about this in the long run, I do think we have an outstanding receiving crew.
I have no clue what they will do about the tackling, however. But I was also concerned that after the 1st half, when Snyder clearly made some adjustments to his running game, that it appeared that we didn’t know how to adjust to that. I was also wondering if Owa played. I’d like to get him and Riley in there and see what they can do.
This is not a Dorrellian team (players nor coaches! They work too hard, they have worked too hard in the off-season, and some of that showed through yesterday. Some of it did not. But I have no doubt that it will show through. They are a great bunch of guys and they and the coaching staff work as a real team. They will hang tough together and will make the adjustments they can at this point. Some things they cannot control (like the personnel we’ve lost). But I do think they will rise. My biggest disappointment was not for me (unlike so many posters yesterday). It was for them because they’ve worked so hard and they care so much.
Go Bruins!
Disappointment
You make a really solid point. Some of that blogging angst yesterday was somebody sitting in front of a computer feeling really sorry for himself or herself rather than for some fine players who played their hearts out.
by peggysue69 on Sep 5, 2010 8:09 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The dropped passes
Really hurt us, but its not a lack of knowing one another. When the ball hits your hand you have to catch it, I will say we looked off, but I think our receivers were too excited. They started to think too much after the first couple of drops. I believe this was the only game that will happen, heck Embree dropped as many passes last night as he has his whole UCLA career , that won’t happen again. I’m keeping the faith, the loss to KSU won’t look as bad at the end of the season, Thomas is the real deal. As always go Bruins! See you all at the Rose Bowl!
Bruin for life!!!!
You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one. - John Wooden
Disappointed Is the Right Word
This was the first UCLA football game I’ve been able to attend for a long time, and I hoped for a better finish. I must admit that my spirits were raised at the end of the first half—not because of the score, really, since it’s the Kai Forbath factor—but because our team seemed to be getting it together, and playing with a rhythm.
I don’t know what happened at halftime, but Snyder certainly does know how to adjust his team, while ours looked flat-footed and stunned.
The penalties were maddening, and the display of Kansas City Chiefs-like Red Zone paralysis was unbearable. Our defense actually seemed to tire, early on. That was unexpected for me. KSU’s offense was just not that intimidating.
I got a kick out of their fans’ reactions to Franklin, and it was justified. He was a blast to watch with the ball, and his stamina was impressive—that stadium was an oven. (Really, anytime a player can make the other sides’ fans groan and grab their heads like that, you know you’re on the right track.) Also, I know there were too many missed tackles, but to me there was noticeable improvement here from last season. There was some dead-on hits happening, (a couple of them pretty spectacular, actually), where our players stopped them cold. Yes, I know the apparent inability to count players eliminated the most critical of those, but… the direct evidence suggests that we are on the right track.
So yes, disappointed is the right word. Our 2-minute offense worked well, but our 1-minute defense let us down and then composure was lost and the resulting final score insults us. But it is disingenuous in the extreme to call for coaching heads, turn on our QB or any of our players, really, or to draw ultimate conclusions about the quality and potential of our team.
A couple of side notes: The Wildcat fans, as I expected, were awesome. They are gracious hosts, enthusiastic fans, and just nice people. I went to a frat house after the game with my Wildcat-alumni friends whose youngest is a sophomore there, and of course there was a lot of ribbing about my Bruin gear. But, it was all very good-natured. Congratulations to the Wildcats.
Also—and I know you’ve already discussed this here when they were revealed—those away game jerseys. They are a horrible, horrible idea. They are not ugly, in and of themselves, they simply look like Huskies’ uniforms on the field, (even surrounded by all that purple!), and they clash with our staff & trainers, our cheerleaders, everything else. I’d swear they used this dark blue back in the 80’s and it had the same effect: “Here come the Washington Huskies. What are they doing here?”
Love My Bruins
the road unis
look bad in my opinion! That isn’t our blue…
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.
Chow
Must not have slept well last night after the offense made such a hash out of some pretty good play calling. Prince is a rythym QB and you could see that the lack of practice left him less than his best. That being said the performance by our receiving corps may have been the worst that I can truly remember. There is no true evaluation of the offense, the schemes, plays, if there is so little execution. Those short drives exposed our defense to their battering ram running game that took it’s toll in the second half. I know Prince will play better next week. I hope his receivers do as well. Let’s be loud and proud next week!
Go bruins!
IMO Chow had a great game calling plays
Put the O-line, RBs, and even the WRs in positions to win their 1`-on-1 battles and, unfortunately, just too many drops on average-thrown balls.
It was good to see Chow even involve the frosh like Barr heavily in the gameplan too. I came away really pleased with the offense actually despite it’s struggles. Prince looked flat out rusty but it’s ridiculous people are putting this game on him.
My only gripe (put it in the postgame thread too) is that Kstate’s qb was doing so little that I’m surprised Bullough didn’t send 7-8 each down to contain the run, selling out to get our D off the field. We were just fine until we ran out of gas late, and we can’t keep counting on Ayers to get pressure every time we rush 3. I think our defense played well in all…linebackers were a little slow in pursuit and Hester had that one ugly penalty, but everyone really bounced back and eventually just got worn out by 54 (!) run plays.
by bruinhopeful on Sep 5, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Hostility and Negativity in the Game Day Thread and Post Comments
“Guess I didn’t realize that lot of toxicity would also come in our comment threads from drive by posters, trolls, who were mostly absent during the long off-season when we had repeated, drawn out discussions on what should be the expectations heading into Rick Neuheisel’s third season into Westwood. Instead we are seeing analysis from so called Bruin fans who sound just as savvy as Chris Fosters, Bill Splashme or a clueless and classless hack like TJ Simers from the LA Times.” (sorry, couldn’t get it to block quote)
N., you put your finger on something that has been bothering me since last basketball season. It’s the emergence of aggressive, uninformed, unsubstantiated in fact, posts.
Yesterday, I almost left the thread. In my opinion, it was not what our threads used to be — or should be now.
BN is something special to most of us who spend a lot of time here. For me, living in Exile, a game day thread is like sitting in my old seat at the Rose Bowl — it’s a time to be with people I know, and to share informed comments on the game as it goes on.
Honestly, if some of the comments made in the thread had been made in the stands, those who made them would have been run out of the section. Of course, some of the people who are so bold in an anonymous thread would probably not be so obnoxious when surrounded, physically, by their Bruin brothers and sisters.
To many of us, the threads have been a place to share insight and “fandom”.
More than one person yesterday, after making an inappropriate comment, said “I had to vent”.
Sometimes, when sitting around the table at a dinner party I have gas — and I need to vent, too. But, I spare my friends the result of my personal needs and make sure I do nothing to ruin their experience.
Need to vent? Go outside. We don’t need to hear it. We are trying to focus on the game.
BTW — there is a big difference between critical commentary based on the facts of the game and unsupported wailing angst and attacks.
If you really think our season is over I feel sorry for you. If that’s true, don’t watch, and don’t comment. For those of us who are trying to enjoy the meal, your verbal farts are an unwanted distraction.
sjh
PS: This is not my community. And, I’m the last person to advocate any form of censorship. But, I’m concerned that the tone of yesterday’s thread (as with some of last year’s B-ball threads) is making us more like the one line, drive by places — something BN has never been.
sjh
yup
and I think it is important to note: critical comments are totally acceptable. This isn’t a community of “blowing sunshine”; critical comments are made all the time (and often most vociferously by the frontpagers!).
I would add to what you say: something that bothered me was how different the tone in comments was from the people who have ‘been here’ all offseason, and those who just showed up on the doorstep yesterday. I am not sure if it is people not understanding the general tenor of this community, or whether it is people just not having any perspective on the team after taking 9 months off from caring about Bruin football; but it was bizarre.
(Obviously this is not a shot at that minority of yesterday’s naysayers who are regularly here and regularly taking similar stances – I am happy to agree to disagree with them – but I definitely had a gut reaction of “who the hell are you people? who let you in to my living room?” in regards to a lot of the others; regardless of whether or not that is justified, it was my emotional response to it)
Game days...
Yeah, on game days every idiot comes by and whines about the world ending ignoring the facts of what really needs to get down. Its one game, wow…. I can understand if we played like this the entire season, fire the staff,but we had ONE bad game. Anyway, yes too many people lack perspective and patience. Not just as a football, same people have major issues with life.
Couldn't agree more...
I don’t know if BN has become a victim of its own success, but it is definitely attracting a wider crowd with different views than it has in the past. Last season’s basketball threads often became painful.
Long-time posters continue to offer great insight, perspectives and analysis, but many of these game day threads are becoming like other boards — filled with junior high level posts and angst ridden comments. Props to Nestor and everyone else for putting together a site that still transcends the “Chicken Little” trolls.
At our core, we are all Bruins. We should all support our teams and players 100%. Dissent is okay, if its founded in fact and accompanied by well thought out reasoning. We are all allowed our disappointment for on-field performances, but I’ve often come away more disappointed with the impression our “fan base” leaves via toxic thread comments.
The core audience of BN is diehard, but there seem to be a lot of fair weather fans out there all too quick with the negativity. I’d like to think that the diehards out number the idiots, but I don’t know anymore. It seems we’ll never fill the Rose Bowl to capacity like KSU filled their stadium yesterday. This for a middling team not expected to compete for a Big 12 title.
I know LA is not Manhattan, KS and LA fans are notoriously mellow, but as a diehard that’s there for 0-12 (God forbid) or 12-0 seasons, its disheartening. Our school, teams and players deserve our support. Save the disdain for the thugs across town.
Hear, Hear
If we cannot be loyal to and supportive of this team and these kids, we don’t deserve their hard work, and they probably won’t get any better.
(Loyalty and support are neither mindless nor absent of reason. See: Almost everything Coach ever said.)
Love My Bruins
I think you hit it on the head
I was far more disgusted with our own game and postgame threads than any dropped ball, missed tackle, or containment failure yesterday.
totally dead on
The issue is everyone (fairweather or diehard) owns a computer and can have an anonymous handle no matter what. BN premium edition anyone? (j/k)
by bruinhopeful on Sep 5, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Class
Class, I sometimes wonder whether your name de cyber is a noun (a name) or an adjective (a description of your views).
So my point is not to disagree with your wonderment about where some of those goofy post-game remonstrations came from. But some of those views find their basis in what have been 12-15 years of UCLA deceptive press flackery. Whether it is a decade of blue chippers who turned into cow chippers or Dorrell’s “we’ve turned the corner” nonsense, some people just don’t believe us or in us.
My view is CRN will get us to the promised land. But some of yesterday’s unreasonable views find their basis in a decade of failure to produce consistently and spin about how things are looking up.
That being said, I am with you Class.
by peggysue69 on Sep 5, 2010 9:54 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Silver linings
Thanks for the perspective. In the prior threads I kept on pointing out that it’s only the first game for christ’s sake! Absolutely frustrating but here are some silver linings that I see:
Pretty pleased with the potential of the pistol and don’t think the mass media’s blowing it off as a gimmick is true, but is anything they put out there true anyways?
Excited about seeing Kai Forbath take a run at breaking the Ncaa record for most consecutive field goals under 50 yards! Reminds me of the John Lee days minus that tee.
I myself was questioning the use of Prince especially since he did not practice for the entire last month. I was not doubting his position as number one, but just did not understand why they didn’t take some time to get him back into the groove. However, given the pac10 starting with Stanford the second week, I think it was the right call. That first game was really our preseason and I feel comforted that prince got his reps in a tough environment. Makes me feel better about a Stanford team that busted 50 on lowly Sac state. (hey it’s better than the UC Davis, seriously Cal?)
You make a really good point about Prince playing the "pre-season" game.
While I am pretty sure the coaches weren’t viewing it as pre-season, it is good that Prince got in the game before the Pac-10 season begins.
Go Bruins!
Amen on your preseason take
I wanted to win badly but you a right that Prince was the better choice because of the absence of practice time.
by peggysue69 on Sep 5, 2010 8:49 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Couple more things
Malcolm Jones is very promising, but I would have a better take if the stupid announcers didn’t get him and Jetski mixed up all the time.
As N pointed out, O line is sooooo much better. Hopefully, we get a lift when suspensions and academic issues get sorted out.
Am I very disappointed, yes! But I just want to put my 2 cents of constructive criticism in. A big reason that we lost that game were the constant 3 & outs by the offense. When your defense is on the field all day long in hot conditions they will get tired & worn out. The offense has to step up to the plate & do their jobs of putting up points or at least keeping the other teams defense on the field with time consuming drives, plain & simple. We MUST make the plays next week against Stanford because we cannot afford to go 0 & 2!! That’s it as I am now through venting. GO BRUINS!!!!
Post game interviews.
I don’t know how to imbed it, and I imagine N or one of the front pagers will later, but Ralph’s post-game video at the uclabruins site is really good. Our players take responsibility and mirror many of the comments made here today. I loved Marvray’s comment, that it was great to get his first td pass, but he’d much rather have gotten the win. And Smith is so very happy to be a Bruin! Anyway, it’s good viewing, and I love the tone of our players. They are not going to settle.
Go Bruins!
I Watched This
and I totally agree with you. They, too, are disappointed, but clearly determined and united as a team.
Love My Bruins
The balance between constructive criticism and whining
It’s not reasonable to expect the larger Bruin Nation (not just the regulars on the website) to accept yesterday’s loss as ok. I’ve been supporting Bruin football for over 50 years and there have been periods of mediocrity among the glory years. We are in a a period of mediocrity; it is not wrong to have higher expectations of the performance of the team. The third year of the Neu era should show a substantive improvement. All in all, that didn’t happen yesterday. I will bleed Bruin blue unti I die, and I will watch and support the team all season. But I will not say that mediocrity is what any Bruin should settle for. Whining about the whiners is wasted effort; be a Bruin, accept nothing less than excellence.
That being said, there were good things yesterday too. The pistol looks promising. Jones and Smith looked like they had huge potential. Kai is classic. The O-Line looked strong, the best in years. Akeem is god.
What needs to happen different? Play calling in the red zone is problematic. The offense needs to put together first downs; Chow seems to call too many passes too early in a game and too early in a season. Build confidence in a running game; I think we may actually have one this year. Play of the QB is still a problem. It is not disloyal to observe that perhaps Prince just doesn’t have it. And fundamentals on D; the tackling in the second half lost the game more than any other factor.
Again, expecting the best of the Bruins should be the norm. “Doing your best” is what we learned from Coach. I still haven’t seen that from Neu’s teams…..yet.
Well since you're so interested in this "balance", let's take a look at your post
1st paragraph: whining
2nd paragraph: analysis
3rd paragraph: constructive criticism (some of it)
4th paragraph: whining
Any time someone invokes the “I’ve been watching _ for _ years” line, that’s a red flag for “I can’t/won’t back up my assertions, but I hope that people will accept my opinion based on my seniority/won’t call me on it”. Unlike the Pauley renovation, you do not get extra points for seniority here. This binary mentality that you’re either 100% on board or completely overboard has got to stop, but you’re buying right into it. This isn’t a black or white issue. You can be dissatisfied and still keep your objectivity, and not give in to the braindead circle-jerk mentality that took over in the game and postgame threads. I guarantee that none of the frontpagers here are satisfied with yesterday’s result. To imply that we are is insulting.
The fact of the matter is that for anyone who was paying attention during the offseason, nothing that happened yesterday outside of the dropped passes could have been shocking enough to generate the cesspool of reactionary emotional garbage that was our game/postgame threads yesterday.
Is there a boomer resentment?
And really, invoking Coach is not whining, agreed? My seniority is presented as evidence that, although I don’t hang around BN much (Nestor banned me once, inexplicably from my perspective) I do really care about UCLA sports. And have invested in my time and treasure in it over many, many years. I don’t expect my opinions to get any more weight because of it, but rather they shouldn’t be dismissed because I am not around BN. And if arguments can be made, I listen and discern. Tackling was horrible; tell me how that is wrong.
And front pagers? I was only reflecting and others discrediting criticism, or so it seemed to me.
My Dad (UCLA ‘33) is in heaven with Coach right now, and they, and I, and you, want Bruins to be the best they can be. I don’t think Neu’s teams have played their best. Yesterday I was trying to think “well, maybe the talent isn’t there.” But because I have been following Rivals and spring practice and discussions here and Bruinzone and Bruin Gold year round is why I think we didn’t (and haven’t as a rule) played our best in the Neu era. I don’t think this conclusion is really braindead mentality. You don’t want frontpagers to be essentialized and dismissed; don’t do the same to those who care about Bruin sports but criticize yesterday’s performance.
of all the things that annoy me most about BN
invoking Coach and claiming it as validation for any point you might want to make is almost blasphemous. It has taken on the semblance of different religious sects appealing to scripture out of context to justify any action.
Sometimes it is well-known Woodenisms (e.g. “be quick but don’t hurry”) taken out of context; but in your example, is “doing your best” something Coach taught us? Didn’t your parents teach you that? Isn’t that part of the Olympic ideals? Heck, maybe Thom Yorke taught me that when he sang “You can try the best you can, you can try the best you can, the best you can is good enough”. To take a generic statement, attribute it to the teachings of Coach John Wooden, and then use his name to defend yourself against criticism, is disrespectful to his memory.
My anger here is not totally directed at you, but at all the people who think their weak points become unassailable, or their bland points become profound, whenever they namedrop Coach.
by britishbruin on Sep 5, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
And, I believe that our players and coaches did do their best for yesterday.
I think each situation, we have a different best we can do. I’m upset because there is implied in many of these posts, that our players and coaches are not doing their best. I think they are working their asses off and are watching amazing amounts of tape and working to make things better. That they dropped balls yesterday, is not about not caring or working hard, it’s what was happening yesterday, and they need to find out why and not drop them. And I have confidence that they will. That we couldn’t tackle in the second half, had nothing to do with effort. I don’t know if it is tiredness, the schemes, mental errors, or inexperience (or all of the above), but I do think they cared and made the effort, mentally and physically. And I do think all parties will be working extra hard (as they always do) to fix it. I get upset, when there is a tone that implies differently about our team. I think they are making every effort mentally and physically (coaches and players)…and that means they are doing their best. If we are going to invoke Coach, let’s remember succeeding is not about winning, it is about doing our best. And while it is important to continue to improve and to work at it, I have no doubt that this team, collectively and individually will. Many posters may be critical of our tackling, to take one example, but it’s the tone and the conclusions that come with it that I think we are discussing today. I don’t think Coach would be happy with people using his name to criticize our teams and our young men.
Go Bruins!
I honestly...
… don’t think Neu teams in the last two years have played to their potential. That is NOT, repeat NOT the players fault. They are youngsters, adapting to college life, hormones raging, away from home, with great talent. It is, I posit, up to a coach and his assistants to create practices and a work culture where excellence is expected and achieved. In business, in school administration, there is a standard that in the third year of management the work culture is the responsibility of the managers. We are in year three. Observing this should be part of an fan’s analysis. I haven’t seen effort like December 2, 2006. And that is NOT the players’fault.
But in the end, this resentment of any criticism is silly. Let’s figure out how to beat Stanford. And I would hope lots of work this week in practice around tackling fundamentals.
(apologies to all if the above is too aggressive)
by britishbruin on Sep 5, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
There are things
in your response I understand and agree with. My Dad had Wooden’s Pyramid of Success on his study wall… and through the 60’s staying up late with my Dad and watching every delayed broadcast of Bruin basketball games was, indeed, almost a religious observance in my family. I associate my Dad and Wooden so much (they even looked alike) that i don’t invoke his name lightly.
What is also true is that I probably care about UCLA sports too much. They are just games. But losing to SC can depress me for months.
If that's something you had articulated in the beginning
Maybe your response would make sense. Instead, since yours is a reply to the reaction that happened last night, you are defending that behavior. Maybe you didn’t see what happened in those threads, but if you look in there and see a lot of honest criticism instead of a braindead circle jerk, then I double down on everything I just said. If you see nothing wrong with that given the contrast between yesterday and the body of work built here all offseason long and for years before that, then this isn’t the place for you – and that would be the case if you had been around since 1919.
And as british said above, if your post can’t stand on its own without invoking either your seniority or Coach, then it’s not strong enough to post. Let’s stop name dropping coach as a criticism deflector shield.
Bounce Back
Oh how things could have been different with a few caught passes early on to set the tone and tempo. I can’t fault the staff, the looks were open and unfortunately the plays were not made. You can’t just say that the coaching staff didn’t get the players prepared. Sometimes it just doesn’t go your way, especially on the road. I am excited about Prince and the offense working on their timing this week and getting on the same page and taking it to the Cardinal. We will get better…you fans better believe that. I will be at the Rose Bowl bright and early next week wearing a new UCLA BLUE shirt and cheering on OUR players.
Would have playing a FCS school and winning 35-3 helped us prepare for the season? Tough to say, maybe a “warm-up” game would have been good for this team. However, I think our guys are much better prepared for what to expect toughness and speed wise than Stanford who played a high school team at home.
Lastly, we have 3 different color blues going on for football right now. Cal blue on our away uniforms, Duke royal blue on our helmets and UCLA Blue (Airforce Blue) on home unis and all other school gear. Let’s get it together fellas!
GO BRUINS! Beat ’furd!
agree with a lot of what you say
and playing a weak opponent might have been good given the injury-interrupted buildup; but tough to know that several years ago when the game was scheduled. Hopefully the relative toughness of the game gets us more battle ready than Stanford coming off a whupping of a minnow.
by britishbruin on Sep 5, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Last night when I got back from watching the game with Bruins...
I came to BN to commiserate, share, and discuss with others. With the Bruins I was with (about 20 of them) that is what we did and we were hopeful, yet disappointed. But after reading the post-game thread I felt like fox after he goes to a trogan site…like he needs to take a shower! Where is fox today, anyway? Anyway, today feels more normal again. It’s sad when we have to commiserate about the BN thread!!! LOL. Anyway, I am a baby boomer, who as a kid started rooting like crazy for the Wooden teams and was at the OJ game when he beat us in the last seconds of the game (that’s how I knew he was guilty!). And I have never sensed any “boomer resentment” from anyone out there. I don’t think any of the post-boomers what to be me! See you all at the Rose Bowl and in the post-game thread next week!
Go Bruins!
Yup
All those people are long gone the day after. They’ll be back after the Stanford game.
Maybe we should have a separate hidden post-game thread with some unrelated title like...
New Golf Uniforms or something like that. And only those who come here regularly would know that that is the real game thread!
Go Bruins!
new golf uniforms!
I just spit all over the screen…haha
BBQ!
As a BIG TIME Bruin fan, we have all vented about yesterdays loss including myself. Lets just all give it a rest because no matter how much we all hate the final score, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Lets just support our team, be positive & move forward. Winning at home against Stanford will be awesome so lets get ready to make a lot of noise at the Rose Bowl for our team! See you there. Until then, gotta go because the brat’s, burgers & steaks are on the grill. Have a great day fellow Bruins!!!
I forgot to post this.
This will help make us forget yesterdays loss. TOMORROW BRETT HUNDLEY IS GOING TO ANNOUNCE HIS CHOICE FOR A COLLEGE & A LITTLE BIRD TOLD ME THAT HE IS GOING TO BE A BRUIN!!!!
Heard the same
He’d be a nice fit for us. We’ll see…
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
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