Bruins Buried In the Desert; Embarrass the Four Letters and Lose 85-74
by Tydides on Jan 27, 2011 8:43 PM PST
in Basketball
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PrintThe duel in the desert was to be a matchup for sole possession of second place in the conference. Unfortunately Reeves Nelson was the only one who showed any interest in it. The rest of the team was a collective no show on both ends of the floor. The only thing that keeps me from including Nelson in that defensive failure category for his and Anthony Stover's showing against Derrick Williams is that there honestly isn't much anyone is going to do against Williams when he's on. He's projected to be a lottery pick for a reason. Nevertheless the sloppy play (11 first half turnovers, 18 overall) and shoddy defense throughout the game is simply a sickening display for a team with so much to play for, and Arizona predictably pounded the Bruins 85-74 (box score).
Nelson's 17 first half points on perfect 7-7 shooting were enough to mask our deficiencies early. Arizona became a jumpshooting team of their own choosing for a ten minute stretch in the first half that drastically lowered their overall shooting percentage after starting out pounding the ball inside. The Bruin D was never particularly good though, and that showed when Williams and Co. triggered a 26-13 burst at the start of the second period on a barrage of 3 pointers and layups to put the Bruins down 18 and leave them essentially playing for pride. The Wildcats went from shooting in the low 30's to the mid 50's and the rout was on.
Already having possibly one of the worst games of his career, Lazeric Jones' elbow drew a technical foul, the frustration for UCLA boiled over, and rather than buckle down and fight through adversity, the Bruins appeared to fold up and quit on national TV. Seeing as how the Bruins couldn't summon up enough effort and pride to put up a fight in the desert, I suppose I'm free to exercise my right to do likewise. This team better sack up and get a win in Tempe after this embarrassing performance. I leave you with a few (too many) examples of our defensive failure:
33-41 Derrick Williams made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Lamont Jones.
33-43 Jesse Perry made Two Point Layup
37-45 Derrick Williams made Two Point Dunk Shot.
41-54 Solomon Hill made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Jesse Perry.
44-56 Jordin Mayes made Two Point Layup.
44-58 Kyle Fogg made Two Point Layup.
44-60 Derrick Williams made Two Point Dunk Shot. Assisted by Jamelle Horne.
44-62 Kevin Parrom made Two Point Layup. Assisted by Alex Jacobson.
50-66 Lamont Jones made Two Point Layup.
54-69 Lamont Jones made Two Point Layup.
61-71 Kevin Parrom made Two Point Layup. Assisted by Derrick Williams.
61-73 Brendon Lavender made Two Point Layup. Assisted by Jamelle Horne.
Pathetic.
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What an effort
I watched a total of three minutes of this debacle and then turned on a 20 year old movie that I had seen over a dozen times. Yet it was till more watchable.
TH a no show
He’s been pretty invisible since the kansas game. Take a long look at williams, TH, that’s what a lottery pick looks like.
I hope he leaves early.
He’s another Jrue who has an inflated opinion of himself without ever accomplishing anything. Where do theses guys come from and why are we getting them. He reminds me of a guy who looks at himself in the mirror while having sex. Disinterested in his partner (teammates).
Whoa! Where's that coming from?
You hope he leaves? He looks like a guy who’d rather watch himself in the mirror than his lover?
I don’t know where you get off. No matter how bad our guys played, they work hard in practice and in the gym to represent our school. And, they have to carry a full load of course work unlike other so called schools that let guys enroll while being unable to spell.
If you don’t like the way Honeycutt played, maybe you better get in the gym and knock some shots down, put on the uniform and go out there.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
this comment
immediately after saying he only watched 3 minutes of the game.
Guys
I’ve watched more UCLA basketball than you can even imagine. Not to sound like an old coot (which I may well be) but I’ve watched games from about 1965 on. Hazard, Goodrich, and Slaughter. UCLA vs Houston 1968 Game 1 the loss; game 2 the tournament wipeout revenge game, Alcendor, Warren, Allen, Shackelford. The Real 88 game streak, Johnson, Meyers, Rowe, Wickes. The final Wooden runs, Walton and Co. (Games shown on a delayed basis, but stayed up late to watch). Ed O, Affalo and more. So cut me some slack and when I say it took three minutes to watch these guys to know they were going nowhere and are a shadow of UCLA players past.
How fortunate of you to watch a coached Wooden team
I wonder if he would give up on a team after three minutes? These guys are young and Arizona is good, give Honeycutt a break
ridiculous
I am sick of the TH hate… sure he can be careless or force passes to the wrong guys that can’t catch a pass, but I couldn’t disagree more with where people perceive his head is at. If all he cared about was his NBA numbers he would start jacking the ball. He had only 8 FG attempts and he usually plays and tries to score in the flow of the game. Unlike a guy like Drago who another poster once had the gall to compare him to he doesn’t just throw up crap. He is a skinny guy that is easily one of our top rebounders.
The main issue he is having this season is he is forced into a shooter’s role because we have some players inside that don’t too much in the way of space for others to operate. That is why a nice lineup for us is TH at the 4 because then it’s just one big boy in the way and he can work on the interior a little more. With 2 big bodies in there TH is used in the offense as a shooter and distributor. When his shot is not falling his game doesn’t look good because it’s difficult to get those easy chances to get going. He was a more prolific offensive rebounder last season, but his defensive rebounding per minute is about the same. 11 rebounds tonight is not the worst way to disappear.
Honestly he is just a soph and his shot is much better than last season. He will get more comfortable shouldering the ball handling load and taking people off the dribble as well. I look forward to his entire game coming together the next 2 seasons as a Bruin. It would be a shame to lose out on what I believe will be one of our best if he stays 4 seasons.
The big issue I am sure for the coaches is that your best passer that can get other people easy baskets also needs to learn to take over and score. Keep in mind the league is littered with 3 guard lineups, so he has to do this against a guard oftentimes. It’s a difficult balance to understand for a young player or an experienced one for that matter. Howland perhaps could implement a big lineup that puts TH in the post more often against that guard. Again though when you have Smith and Nelson and you are trying to run sets with them it is unfortunately not in the flow of what we are trying to accomplish by putting TH in the post. Not an easy dilemma at all.
I agree that most of the TH criticism is over the top
I don’t like TH’s turnovers, but the guy does make plays, so I won’t criticize hime there.
However, the thing I have a hard time with is that he loses focus on defense, and it happens way too often. People were taking him off the dribble all night. That’s just laziness.
by bornagainbruin on Jan 28, 2011 7:02 AM PST up reply actions
Heartless
Great write up P. This thing was abominable. Weak. Ugly. And made worse by the knowledge that if they had the will, these Bruins should have won this game.
by 281bruins on Jan 27, 2011 8:58 PM PST via mobile reply actions
What I learned
1. UCLA’s wins vs. Stanford, Cal, Oregon, and Oregon State (i.e. the Pac-10’s bottom feeders) didn’t mean jack squat!
2. Ben Howland continues to be out coached game in and game out. Watching Arizona’s rotating lay up line in the 2nd half would have prompted most coaches to change up the defense, but not Ben.
3. The Bruins have no pride. Watching Nelson and the rest of the boys laugh it up in the final minutes made me sick! What a disgrace!
4. UCLA’s ridiculously high turnover rate is more than partially due to the team’s inability to run any kind of coherent offense for longer than two minutes
5. UCLA will not make the tournament for the second straight year (and it pains me deeply to say that).
2 years without making it to the big dance, Lavin got fired after one
We're not out of the tourney yet
We get another shot at both UA and UW and an opportunity against St. John’s who has a solid RPI. Tonight’s game was was between two projected (barely) tourney teams for sole possession of 2nd place in the pac10, something had to give. Unfortunately it was UCLA giving UA whatever they wanted.
It was a terrible showing, I’m in no way defending it, but to imply this game is the end of season is just wrong.
If it's not the end...
…it’s pretty dang close … I’m hoping for a miracle, but my heart isn’t strong enough to overpower my reason
I think you have that backwards!
after that emotionally draining poor showing (the sky ALMOST fell…seriously) your heart is clouding your reason.
Bottom line is if we win all the games we absolutely should, we’re at 19 wins with games against UA, sc, St Johns, UW, WSU remaining for us to earn our bid. 3 out of those 5 are at home, then we get the pac10 tourney. 22 wins by selection Sunday would not be a miracle.
Agree with bruinboy86
The laughing on the bench at the end was sickening. Ben needs to go because he can not recruit guys that give a damn about our terrific school. Other coaches are getting on their players for just about anything. Howland looks like he is as disinterested as his players during timeouts. What a sorry night!
by Forever a Bruin on Jan 27, 2011 9:14 PM PST reply actions
is this for real?
Yeah, I’m sure Howland doesn’t give a shit…
Yeah I'm not sure about this either
Howland doesn’t look disinterested at all – in fact most times he’s the angriest looking guy on the floor. He’s just not the kind of coach who loses his head during timeouts.
BIG Silver Linings
Let’s face it, most of us didn’t expect to win this game going in and most of the team exemplified that pretty much from the start . . . there’s no reason to call out individuals when this was a true team effort conspiring to create a seemingly endless list of bricks, missed layups, unnecessary acrobatics, bonehead decisions, inability to run the fast break, and other unforced errors.
HOWEVER, all is NOT lost. This game was a highlight reel for the incompetence of Pac-10 officiating. The sheer number of fouls, free throws, carryovers, 5-second calls and other arbitrary capriciousness (i.e., bullshit calls) on national television, in which both Rece Davis and Jay Bilas were clearly shocked on numerous occasions, will hopefully bring to light something that is killing the Pac-10.
This game was as pathetic as it gets, but with the abomination that is are SPTRs, you can’t expect the game to have kind of flow which whistles (sometimes multiple) on every single play. Yeah, we really screwed the pooch tonight, but I’d give anything for an adequately-officiated game.
Agree that this result is about what most expected.
Agree that the SPTRs were awful.
by orlandobruin on Jan 28, 2011 3:21 AM PST up reply actions
As goes Zeke...
so go the Bruins. We’ve won without Nelson. We’ve won without Smith. But we’ve yet to win a game in which Zeke is sub-par. And I’m thinking that Parry knew a thing or two about getting in Zeke’s head from juco days, because I don’t think I’ve seen a game this year in which his head seemed so totally out of the game. I don’t think that elbow would have flown in a game in which Zeke was exhibiting the kind of steadying influence he’s had for most games.
And yeah, the laughing on the bench at the end of the game absolutely sucked — even more than the 10,000 replays of the Williams highlight plays. The Bruins should be made to watch that for 3 hours, intercut with the laughing on the bench.
It’s not the end of the season, but it’s definitely a big step backwards, and they better show up for ASU.
That's an interesting theory wrt to Zeke and Parry
In a video on Gold’s blog Zeke talked about really looking forward to playing against his old teammate.
Many of the replays
(at least those I saw before watching the score of the last 10-12 minutes of the game fly by on DVR fast-forward) were well worth repeating. It sucks that he pulled them off against us, but I saw some amazing plays.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
They'd have been amazing if they were contested...
but in the absence of defense, they just pissed me off. And I just got more pissed with each repeat of the highlight reel.
Question
How the heck is UCLA 13-7 and BYU and San Diego State are in the top 10? Does anybody see how pathetically twisted this is?
Nelson played with a bad ankle.
I know because I saw him limping about an hour after the Cal game on the empty Pauley floor. Yet he was the only, and I mean only Bruin, who played for the four letters tonight.
The rest? I just don’t understand it. Honeycutt disappears except for the never-ending bonehead turnovers. Smith is regressing. Jones never settled down.
Our offense and defense sucks, and I’m still waiting to see CBH make an adjustment other than calling a timeout.
As for the smoking and joking by our players when they are being embarrassed on national TV, I’m guessing this is why Coach retired when he did. He saw this crap coming.
Because of one and done, and the entitlement mentality of today’s prima donnas, college basketball in general, and UCLA in particular, are a pale imitation of a former great sport and legendary program. This is how I felt even after we beat Cal last week. Of course, I’m spoiled. I personally witnessed truly great teams every year when I was a student from 1966-1970.
Hell, even the Wickes-Rowe-Patterson team would not lose a game against today’s teams. They were stud players who played as a team and overachieved to win a National Championship.
Who knows? Maybe it’s the gangster shorts that are de rigeur these days. Whatever, it is unwatchable, even shameful.
And, yes, the refs sucked. It’s called home court advantage.
Totally agree
And, interestingly, Coach did it without ever focusing on winning. The focus was always on execution — down to the smallest details. Which was why his teams could win by insane margins. The score didn’t matter, only the continued execution. Those teams were works of art — each maximizing the utilization of whatever talents were on the team. Very hard to find top players today who would put up with his approach — especially with a plethora of Calipari clones who recruit by coddling egos.
Yep. It’s a different world, and I don’t think Coach could have thrived in it.
Our team is lousy in the small details.
And whatever CBH did in making second half adjustments, he was outcoached today.
by 75NatChamps on Jan 27, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Totally agree
And, interestingly, Coach did it without ever focusing on winning. The focus was always on execution — down to the smallest details. Which was why his teams could win by insane margins. The score didn’t matter, only the continued execution. Those teams were works of art — each maximizing the utilization of whatever talents were on the team. Very hard to find top players today who would put up with his approach — especially with a plethora of Calipari clones who recruit by coddling egos.
Yep. It’s a different world, and I don’t think Coach could have thrived in it.
That "elbow" took us out of the game...
Foul. Technical Foul. Ball back to Arizona.
That was the turn in the game. It was morally deflating for the team and they really never could recover. Otherwise this game should have been close until the end.
Were there mistakes? Yes. Our defense still needs to get better and living and dying by the 3pt shots killed us this game. I honestly don’t think this is the end of the world.
Go Bruins
+1
We will continue to improve. This game played on a neutral court would be different. Let’s see how we look on Saturday against a bad ASU team. Go Bruins
by westwood12003 on Jan 27, 2011 10:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
+1
We will continue to improve. This game played on a neutral court would be different. Let’s see how we look on Saturday against a bad ASU team. Go Bruins
by westwood12003 on Jan 27, 2011 10:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
This team is soft...
I am not encouraging hurting anyone but how many times do we have to watch a guy come down the lane and posterize us?! How about a hard foul to make sure the guy thinks twice the next time he rises up for a one hand jam! Where is the pride? Why are we so damn soft?! They are dunking the he’ll out of the ball and we the blowing soft acrobatic reverse layup attempts. And the joking around…don’t even get me started!!! Forget going after the top 25 recruits…we need to go out and get tough boys who view it as an honor to work hard and represent the four letters.
Some simple algebra for our bruins...
Stupid Turnovers + jacking up 3s = quick 10 point deficit
barely any positives to take away from this game
except how Reeves managed to outplay the rest of our team on a bad ankle
big positive in my opinion
I had to flip it and become the optimist for once, but in a road game we shot 24-31 FTs because we kept pounding the ball inside to our bigs.
In a game Lane, Stover and Smith combine for 3 boards we outrebound our opponents 32-27 despite how horribly we shot from 3 (2-15) and how well they shot from 3 (6-10).
The game of basketball can take funny turns, but it can be as simple as shooting the ball well that made everything seem worse than it was. I personally am not a big fan of the 3 for just that reason. To be honest the fact Arizona only shot 10 3s was the most impressive thing for me. I hope we can become more of the team that wants to pound our team inside and attack then shoot 3s which is what I started to see at least for a few stretches.
Totally Agree .....but
What will it take to become that team? Its been obvious for a long time that we don’t know how to get the ball inside to Josh with any room to work. At least not often enough. Most of the time we’re forcing it inside?
smith
I think he had some room tonight, but failed to finish. He obviously needs to get in better shape, he then needs to learn to clear space without fouling. He needs to learn to go up strong without bulling people over which will hopefully come with getting in shape. He has these awkward offbalance 2 foot shots he throws up and when they are not going in like tonight it hilites the fact that he needs to be better and stronger going up with the ball in traffic. Just a freshman, but next year will go a long way in showing if he can make himself a guy who can stay on the court for 30+ minutes or if he’ll be a walking foul his whole career. He will never get many breaks with his size in college, but there is alot he can do to avoid giving away some of the fouls he does
too high and low
Everyone got too jacked up the last 4 wins and are too bummed out after this game. UCLA at the moment in terms of making the tournament is just holding serve. The last 4 wins didn’t get us in and this loss doesn’t know us out. Lots of games left including the most important one. ASU next. A win and they held serve again. Then they play the most important game again home to USC. Another must win to hold serve. After that they play the most important game of the season. Another must win at home to St. John’s. If somehow they take the next 3 will we then be wondering how far we are going in the tourney? No we shouldn’t be because we’ll be playing our most important game of the season against Oregon again trying to hold serve. I think the point being is all is not lost again.
Bottom line this is a far improved basketball team from last year. Yes I do believe UCLA should always be a tournament. I am probably the biggest critic of Howland going back to the final 4 years and I am nowhere near waving the white flag on this season. I am not sure it is soft as much as clueless sometimes. I see the effort, but not always the ability to defend. The reality is that Howland teaches island defense almost to a fault. The help is late or not existent at times because they don’t even know someone is beat. Everyone is scared of losing their man I guess and they don’t see the big picture. Howland had a guy name Luc who was one of the finest defensive helpers you could ever have. Now he is stuck with mediocrity on the back line when it concerns that help defense. When you play strict man to man defense you are going to get beat and you are going to foul unless you have superb ability. We have one terrific man to man defender, so we are going to give up layups at times. I don’t always think the layups are as simple as a lack of effort. I also don’t think we have tons of fouls to waste to prevent dunks. I certainly don’t want Smith to ever waste a foul preventing a dunk.
I agree completely.
Everyone got too jacked up the last 4 wins and are too bummed out after this game.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
My Take -- For What its Worth
I don’t post too much cause most of what I’m thinking has already been or will be shortly posted by others. Nor am I that expert on the intricacies of the game. But I love our school and watch attentively every time I can on TV and if not then on some streaming feed on the C. So it was with great anticipation that I was ready for the duel in the desert. But like so many, I did not expect to win. I didn’t think we had an answer for Williams (especially if Nelson was not going to play — which I guess turned out to be bs), and even if we did I predicted it would be Fogg who took over and burned us. First half, despite miserable shooting, ball handling etc. we managed to hang with them. I thought the turning point of the game came with 22 seconds left in the first half. Down by 3 we have the ball and at worst go into the locker room down by three. Not. We can’t figure out a way to play a solid 22 seconds, get the last shot. We foul, AU hits two freebies and its down by 5 at half.
Then comes the worst ten minutes I’ve seen in a month or so opening the second half. Game pretty much over. One of these games that fits the old saying, “the game wasn’t as close as the score reflects.” So even though I didn’t expect to win, the agony of this defeat was much worse than I thought possible (given our seeming progress over the past month).
Now, what was learned? Should we be totally distraught and give up on the year? Here’s my thoughts: (1) We’re not as good as 4 straight against mediocre teams led alot of us to hope we were.
Maybe we’re a third place Pac 10 finisher, but that’s not saying alot. But give up? Not quite yet; but its getting close. (2) Tyler H. may work his butt off in practice, but still seems to under perform when it counts. Could be his elbow. Could be he’s just not a pressure guy (then what about Kansas on ntl Tv)? Whatever it is, I don’t think he can be relied on to play up to his potential and I’m tired of hearing about his potential. (3) Josh needs to lose alot of weight and gain the ability to jump more than 6 inches (or go on tippy toe to the rim). Instead of slamming down three or four dunks he missed bank shots and soft one footers. He won’t be dominant til he looks like an athlete. (4) The attitude of the team is bizarre; the laughing, smiling, far away looks; CBH should address this and at least let everyone know what the hell is so funny. Maybe a good joke was told. Ha Ha. How come us fans are hiding our faces and the team is enjoying itself? (5) Yes, Saturday’s game is probably the more important game in AZ, cause it really does have the potential to end our season. Anything but a dominating win would show us up for what we are — a second level, non tourney team.
I watched the game late in the first half
when we kept up quite well with them, spotting only a five point half time deficit. Then came the fiasco around the seventeen minute mark of the second half. I knew from past experience at McKale that when they are on, it really rains boulders, not just hail. So I had the good judgement in turning off the TV after Jones’ technical. It was down the drain already by then.
The laughing part that you folks mentioned seems such an immature, self deprecating behavior gone awry in my opinion. Hey, we got screwed so bad we might as well enjoy it type of thing. Now, this one I put it squarely on Howland & Company’s doorsteps. These players must have sensed something about their coach to think that this sort of behavior, albeit childishly embarrassing for everyone concerned, would be tolerable to him. Never mind, dad wouldn’t care nor get upset.
But I don’t know if Howland can ever teach players, college age, the importance of appropriate conduct on the bench at home or away games. And to think that they do need people to remind them about this sort of stuffs bothers me too. Perhaps some of you are correct to wonder aloud if we never considered recruits’ mental attitude and maturity issue before signing them.
just kills me that
Honeycutt & Smith aren’t dominate game in and game out! two more players who will blossom in the NBA under the right tutelage.
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.
I agree that Honeycutt will be a good pro.
He would blossom on a team where he had to fight for playing time. Here, CBH has not choice but to play him as much as possible.
by 75NatChamps on Jan 27, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions
Tydides is right on
Layup after layup by the opponent gives us no chance to win without fantastic shooting. Zeke had a bad game. TH had a bad game. JS couldn’t score from 3 feet from the basket because he doesn’t leave the ground. Ironically, this is a team that we can beat when they come to our place, because they are also a flawed team. The difference is that our defense was so poor that we never put them under pressure. It is hard to watch only because TH is expressionless. You can’t tell by looking at him whether the score is tied or we are down by 14. I would love to see some fire from him. I’d like to see him smack the floor with two hands when he’s on defense. ML and Zeke play hard (notwithstanding his boneheaded elbow tonight.) Tyler Lamb really played hard in his brief stint in the second half. Reeves gave everything he had. I look forward to UCLA basketball like nothing else, so I never give up on them. It was a disappointing performance on national tv against a team we can beat. Unfortunately, we remain inconsistent. I pointed out to everyone that a good defensive performance against an offensively challenged Stanford team did not make us ben ball warriors. Good teams make you look bad and bad teams make you look good. This game proved it. I predict that we remain inconsistent for the rest of the Pac 10. I still think we have a very talented team with some major weaknesses. I hope we pull it together and get better by Pac10 Tournament time. Go Bruins.
What we are, and what we ain't, and the future
What we are:
We have talent in the starting 5. A solid front line, when out of foul trouble, can take it to anyone in the cuntry. One of the best defenders in malcolm Lee. Physical.
What we ain’t:
Consistent. No reliable outside shooting threat. ZERO bench depth. We’re technically / barely a 7 man rotation with Anderson and Lane. No dependable, consistent PG play. I’m not even gonna touch recruiting for next year. That is an entirely different subject.
the road ahead… On a good night we can beat anyone. Just look at our efforts vs. BYU and KU. On a bad night, we can get blown out and lose our cumposure. We’ve fought through adversity after losses, and we all knew this was gonna be a tough road game. However, we had a chance to make a statement in the P10 tonight against a team (UA), that is probably on their way to the NCAA tourney and put in an awful effort against them. With the way Washington’s playing, we’re going to need to steal a couple games on the road, play hard at home to try and get to the 20 win / 10 conf. win plateau, which would give us a shot at making the dance.
FIRE RICK NEUHEISEL!!! NO MERCY!!!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/composure
You might think what you’re doing is cute. It’s not.
The melodrama on this board is incredible
Man, we sure do throw out the words “embarrass” and “sicken” an awful lot. Not to say that last night’s game was good or that effort was sufficient based on the situation. It was a bad loss, to be sure. But frankly, if losing is enough to make you embarrassed or sick as consistently as I see these words get thrown around, then maybe this whole sports thing isn’t for you. Obviously its frustrating to see a proud school in a down time, but I don’t think that constantly jumping the shark is helpful.
Those folks talking about firing Ben Howland are straight up nuts. How quickly people forget about 3 straight final fours. We still have a good shot at making the tournament this year. We still play Arizona back at Pauley. If we beat them at home and win the rest of the games we’re supposed to win, we’re in the tournament.
And if we're in the tournament
then Howland is showing he can right the ship. I’m not so lost after last night’s game as many here simply in terms of losing. But the manner in which we lost, the lack of effort on defense, the seeming ambivalence of the players to the loss should be very troubling to someone still basking in the 3 FFs, because the attributes that made those teams successful are completely absent now. And even more than that, to ignore the trend of programatic failures that have been occurring the last 3 years is naive and you are blinded by the past.
greg in denver, UCLA guy for life - BruinsNation.com
We need to look at Howland's complete tenure.
Clearly mistakes have been made in the last three years, but the question is do they wipe out the successes he had in 3 FFs? I’m of the mindset that you need to look at his time here as a whole. At this point there are three distinct periods to Howland’s time at UCLA. 1) Where he’s rebuilding after Lavin left. 2) The FF years. 3) The funk we’re in right now. I think you have to throw out the first period as it takes any new coach some time to get things together during a regime change. So then what we’re really comparing is the greatness that the FF teams were and the mediocrity that the current team is. Since this team is so young, I’m willing to give him a little more latitude. The 2008 recruiting bust really hobbled the program. Next year when we get the Wear twins and some new recruits my expectations will be higher. Frankly, after last year’s shit show I wasn’t too optimistic about this season. If we don’t see rapid improvement next year, then I’ll probably be in a place where some folks are this year regarding Howland’s future.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
This is almost right
You’ve got past and present covered. You’re forgetting the future. Obviously we’re not talking about time travel, but about our presence on the recruiting trail, which has not looked great lately. Because this coincides with many of the reasons for our recent struggles, there are plenty of reason for concern, not the least of which is next year’s situation at PG – two seniors and no backup.
Actualy I reference my expectations for next year.
Not that I’m unconcerned, but I think that Howland has earned more leeway than folks here are willing to give. Since the recruiting season isn’t up yet, I’m willing to cut some slack for the time being. We’re still in the thick of the Shabazz sweepstakes. Like I said in my previous post, if serious improvement isn’t made next year, then I’ll probably be where you are now.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
UCLA had a bad 10-minute span to start the second half, but other than that (especially Zeke’s elbow, which pretty much ended the game), they didn’t play overly badly. There are games where I felt the team was embarassing, but this wasn’t one of them. The phrase “embarass the four letters” is starting to get overused, I think. Yes, the team is frustrating, but they’re still far beyond last year.
Though
I still agree with the majority here that Howland needs to make the tournament to save his job.
If it were up to the many posters here
He would lose his job if he fails to get to the Tourney this year. I don’t however, believe that DG will get rid of him if he fails to make it this year and I, personally, am grateful for that. Howland is still regarded (in places other than this) as one of the top ten coaches in the country. We may not cut him slack, but who the hell would any of us think we can get to replace him? What better top ten coach is gonna leave his school to come here? Tom Izzo? I think he’s having some problems at the moment as well. Mark Few? Also not the greatest year. All coaches go through this, and I think DG knows this. We are fans, some of us very knowledgeable ones, but fans nonetheless, and we get impatient when we see performances like last night. But regardless of how this year comes out — and I’m definitely still hoping for/expecting a tournament bid — I think DG gives Howland at least one more year. Hell, look at what he’s given CRN with nothing close to 3 FFs in the resume.
Overall yes, they're beyond last year
Last night, no. And let’s stop using “far beyond last year” as if that’s some kind of major achievement. Last year was disgusting beyond words.
Agreed
Arizona was fired up, crowd was intense as always, and our guard play wasn’t where it was in recent games. Disappointing loss? Yes? Embarrassing the school? I don’t agree.
Losing to an Arizona team with a star player on the road isn’t the same as losing at home to Montana.
by Westwood Wizard on Jan 28, 2011 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
So having guys basically go through the motions
While wearing our jersey isn’t embarrassing? Interesting.
Difference of opinion
Didn’t see the game as “going through the motions.”
by Westwood Wizard on Jan 28, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
You know what's a lot more recent than 3 Final Fours?
Last year’s debacle, which was what last night looked like in terms of effort and engagement in the game. I sure as hell remember that and hoped I would never see it again, but I guess the team had different plans. The mistake you make, which a lot of people around here seem to be making, is the implication that losing is what makes us sick. Were we sick after losing to Kansas? No. Well, actually yes, but for a different reason.
This team's defense flows out of their offense
When they are hitting their shots, they stiffen up their D. You could see that in the Stanford game when they were clawing their way back into it. A game which was at Pauley, BTW, so they had the crowd on their side too. They’re a roller coaster ride right now. This team is a mental headcase, and that’s the result of being so young and immature. Coach has some work to do for sure.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Excuses are what players do. I'm an observer.
I’m frustrated, but not exactly surprised.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
No, apologists say that it's OK because of XYZ.
I’m not saying that it’s OK. I’m just saying what’s happening.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
You're saying it's okay to not make the tournament
Because last year was awful (Howland’s fault) and we’re young (recruiting/retention mistakes – Howland’s fault).
Apologist.
I've been saying that the reckoning really comes next year
Last year was the bottom, this year we’re getting better, but I really have the expectations on next year. Maybe it was on the other thread, but I mentioned that we’re right where I expected them to be at the outset of this season.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Good for you.
I hope you enjoy pulling your hair out hoping for that magical cure.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
That's definitely better
Than having no expectations and slurping up whatever scraps are given you like a dog.
I have expectations, but they're for next year.
I don’t think that the program is served well by dumping coaches who have shown that they have the capacity for excellence. Either the Final Four years were an aberration or these couple of years are an aberration. I’m putting my money on the fact that UCLA will be much better next year.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Since we don't know each other...
I’d appreciate if you’d argue with me, and not some box that you’ve put me into. Hit me up at the end of next season and see what I have to say. I’ll be checking up to see if the same people who are calling for Howland’s job are still carping when we get to the Sweet 16.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
You're the one talking about expectations without justification
I’ve already gone over this months ago. Honestly, I’d rather never “hit you up” about anything ever again because it’ll inevitably be some excuse or an attempt to lower the bar to clear whatever just happened to us.
No, I'm just not willing to throw away obviously talented coaches
on whims of fickled fans. If Howland is replaced then its just a matter of time before the next coach falls out of favor after a bad stretch. It amazes me how quickly you’re willing to throw Howland under the bus after seeing what he’s capable of. I’ll never understand that kind of immediate gratification type of thinking.
by have2comment on Jan 28, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
So then if we have an obviously talented coach
It logically follows that it’s not unreasonable for there to be a baseline expectation, and yet you refuse to even provide that. Basically the only thing amazing here is that you were able to waste this much of my time with complete nonsense and nothing to back you up except how you feel. I’m done with your spineless goalpost moving.
No, apologists say that it's OK because of XYZ.
I’m not saying that it’s OK. I’m just saying what’s happening.
Losing isn't an embarassment
Sometimes you lose games. We got outplayed, and didnt play our best. We had effort until the end. Not an embarrassment. Its always hard for us to win there.
UCLA '08
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