Stanford Trying to Steal Our Soccer Coach
by CarlosBocanegraFanClub on Dec 16, 2011 4:38 PM PST
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Print*** UPDATE 12/21/2011 ***
Stanford hired Charlotte's Jermey Gunn so we dodged the bullet:
http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-soccer/spec-rel/122111aaa.html
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It looks like Dan Guerrero may have another coaching situation to deal with soon with our 4-time national champions men's soccer program. A little bird told me that Stanford is interviewing UCLA head coach Jorge Salcedo for their vacant head coaching position. I am very concerned that we are about to lose our coach. Stanford just built a brand new soccer specific stadium recently and has the nice facilities and massive private school endowment money to throw at Salcedo.
This would be a big loss for us. Salcedo played for UCLA, enjoyed a 6 year professional career in the FMF and MLS, and was an assistant coach on the UCLA national championship team of 2002. Since he took over the reigns of the program in 2004, he has led the Bruins to 5 Pac-10 titles, the final four in 2011, the national title game in 2006, and multiple elite eights. He also signed the number one recruiting classes in the nation in 2004, 2006, and 2010.
More importantly, he has transformed UCLA into one of the few college teams that plays possession-oriented, Barcelona short passing style (along with Akron and UNC):
"We want to build the ball from back to front, and it's something that I feel strongly about -- and I feel strongly about teaching the guys how to develop that mindset, because it's really easy to break up the game and destroy the game and call it soccer. It's really difficult to make the game."In short, the Bruins keep the ball on the ground, look to pass to feet, move play around while probing for openings, make the other team chase a bit -- the beautiful game of Barcelona and vintage Brazil, of Holland and Spain. And with a bit of steel, too -- like the Galaxy.
It positions UCLA's program, already America's richest in producing professional talent, as a developmental academy of sorts -- as close to one as college soccer can provide -- helping create players for MLS and clubs abroad.
This philosophy has paid off in spades this season, with a Pac-12 title, a final four appearance, and the largest MLS draft class in the nation out of any university (between four senior MLS combine invitees plus Kelyn Rowe and Chandler Hoffman).
The beautiful game is growing rapidly in this country. MLS recently surpassed the NBA and NHL in average attendance. College soccer attendance is also growing rapidly. With his possession-oriented philosophy, Salcedo has positioned UCLA at the forefront of the college soccer talent pipeline. Kelyn Rowe is slated to be drafted in the top 3 of this year's draft. Eder Arreola and Shawn Singh have garnered scouts' attention with some ridiculous goals this season. Andy Rose's draft stock is rising rapidly after an elite holding midfield display in the semifinal against UNC. We also have promising future stars with guys like Ryan Hollingshead and Reed Williams.
Moreover, this is a program with some of the most history and tradition in the college game. Going down the list of UCLA soccer alumni is a who's who of USA Soccer with names like Cobi Jones, Sigi Schmidt, Brad Friedel, Benny Feilhaber, and Carlos Bocanegra. If we lost Salcedo to MLS, I could understand that. But losing him to Stanford, a Pac-12 rival, would be unacceptable. I hope that Guerrero will not let this happen on his watch.
Go Bruins.
UCLA's Top 5 Goals in 2011
Kelyn Rowe's go-ahead goal in the final four against UNC.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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We can count on Dan Guerrero to completely mess this up
He can barely handle is completely incapable of handling one football program, what makes you think he’ll be able to handle 2?
Let’s give Salcedo our best wishes once he leaves for Stanford.
As I read the part about Salcedo being an alumni
I couldn’t help but think, he would be better served going to a university that is likely to offer him more than he is making now and has its own stadium, and has a competent AD.
It was great having you here, Coach Salcedo!
Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi
Side Note: Possession soccer in college?
Until they change the substitution rules andTV time outs that happen in big games by adopting the FIFA rules, “build from the back/possession soccer” in college soccer is mythical. IMHO.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
What do timeouts or substitutions have to do with that?
I don’t see what you are getting at. UCLA definitely plays possession soccer. If you sit on the stands and watch a game, you’d say to yourself “Gee, they’re playing possession soccer!” I know I do.
I don’t see how different substitution rules than FIFA has could make possession soccer “mythical”. Ditto for short timeouts midway through each half.
Fair question as I was not exactly explicit. I'd state it this way and would look forward....
….your thoughts. I’ll add – There’s no data I can cite to support this other than the anecdotal.
Admittedly, I have not seen a lot of Bruin games and relative to other college teams, UCLA may play something approximating a “possession system” relative to other schools (though I would not call what I saw against UNC in the semi final “possession” because I saw the Bruin midfield consistently going forward against numbers and turning the ball over – the exact opposite of what possession intends, i.e., wear out and frustrate your opponent into overcommitting and getting numbers forward and create numbers advantages in the attacking third). That aside, choosing whether to play a possession game should be based on whether it is an effective approach and not whether it’s visually appealing – which I agree is.
Barca, being the ultimate example of possession soccer, struggles – albeit rarely – when playing teams that press and that can only work when their opponents have forwards that are in incredible physical condition and can put constant pressure on their incredibly skilled back 4….UNLESS, you were to give their opponents unlimited (or more than the FIFA allotted 3) subs – as is the case in US rules soccer. Add a couple of additional subs and some TV timeouts for additional rest, and keeping possession becomes a great deal more difficult and why I don’t believe possession is nearly as feasible or effective as direct or catenaccio. So, timeouts and subs is a major reason why compared with their international counterparts, the USA plays a more direct and attacking system and tends to produce players that have less flair and ball skills. We are able to press constantly knowing when we get tired, we can come off the field, rest and go back on. I, for one, would like to see us adopt the 3 sub rule once players reach HS. Playing possession evolved in large part out of the need to conserve energy and let the ball do the work because of the limitation on subs.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
The rules are the same for each team
I understand your points better, but I disagree. Which is fine. The subs and timeouts are the same for each team after all.
In fact I’d like to see FIFA change THEIR sub rules. More subs means the team with the deeper bench has an advantage.
God, no. Respectfully
More subs means the international game would look like the US game and no one wants that. Also, the advantage of depth is the bane of intl soccer leagues – unless you enjoy seeing RM and Barc destroy all the other teams in La Liga. Personally, I’d like to see a bit more parity or at least closer matches; though I disagree that allowing your best players to exit, rest and re-enter the game as is permitted in college promotes depth. I’d argue the opposite.
Good exchange. Keep it coming.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
Uh, "closer matches"?
Closer matches are a pretty low priority for me. Soccer is already a laughingstock for low scoring games. Deciding it’s greatest prize on penalty kicks? Ugh. No thank you. Yes, I can fix that. But that’s a different conversation :-)
Funny, as much as I’d like to see more subs in soccer, I’d like to see less in (US) football! So there you have it. And hockey has mass subs all the time — “line changes”.
“And no one wants that” you say. Why not?
You say you want parity. The MLS has parity up the wazoo.
The only real league in the EU is the Champions League. Outside of that, everyone knows that one of 3-4 teams will win its respective league championship before the season even starts. The only excitement in the season is to see who gets the “last slot” for next year’s Champions League and who gets the last slot for relegation. So I understand your parity argument, up to a point.
May I chime in?
have lots of thoughts on soccer since I have playing for the last 20 years in an old farts league, never any good, but love the game. One of the things that enamored me to the game in my youth was the low number of allowed substitutions and the infrequent opportunities to make them. How so very different than US sports. Also, it is the world’s most popular game.
What’s kinda strange is that I don’t follow the game via TV, except for World Cup since that is for all the marbles.
OK, to join in here, I am not in favor of increasing subs, not in favor of having TV time outs and I am not a fan of the PKs to decide all-too important games, like a WC final.
I feel that possession is much more difficult than attack mode but not sure if it is more effective. It does make the game more ‘beautiful’ and is more fun for me to play, but the goal (sorry) is to win the game.
I am guessing that what Mr. Hilgard means by ‘no one wants that’ is that the world does not want global soccer to transform into the style the US has played for so long. (Ah, but with Klinsmann, for how much longer???).
As for low scoring games, well, that is the bittersweet of soccer. Because goals can be such a premium, a much lesser team can win. Is this not why soccer fans can get so heated? Does this not make for (more) great debate?
Regarding soccer being the ‘laughingstock’, who is doing the laughing?
Well, anyway, can’t wait for the conversation on how to rid ourselves of PKs as game deciders.
More...opinions...
I don’t get the “soccer is a laughingstock” comment when it dominates the globe and has surpassed hockey and basketball in the US in average game attendance. Maybe you are referring to the Jim Rome legions and their “cooler than you” inside jokes that I don’t take the time to understand.
US Soccer is less attractive than intl ball because the US player is less skilled than his international counterpart for the following reasons:
1. The sub rules (already discussed).
2. The youth club system: Youth clubs are now significant businesses around the US and anyone with a kid who can dribble is pushing their kid onto a club with a “professional,” licensed coach. The success of these coaches (and clubs) is predicated on wins and at the youth level it means developing role players to fill the needs of specific positions which means specialization. So, kids in u10 who show an aptitude for defense tend to stay there and never develop the skills needed to play mf or stkr, Possession ORIENTED teams require players with skills that work all over the pitch. What’s more, a true Possession system requires that players be very familiar with each other. Youth club sides fall apart the moment a team starts to lose because parents transfer their kid to a side with more potential to win where they either have to re-learn how they fit in with their side or play a more direct system of play. Also, the first question a new coach will ask of a parent who wants to transfer their kid is….“What position does he play?” while thinking, “I’ll take him if he can fill a position of need.”
So, while I’d like to think Klinnsman can develop a beautiful game with the USMNT, it says something that his results improved the minute he reverted back to a basic 442 system. He’s got his work cut out for him and I don’t think time is on his side – politically.
As for PKs, I enjoy them and find them to be the most dramatic event in sport but I get the argument against and won’t waste time trying to convince anyone otherwise. Every sport would seem to have it’s shortcomings. Basketball has a ton of scoring but it’s all meaningless until the 6 minute mark because huge leads can be erased in that time.
For me, the consistency and accuracy of refs is the most frustrating part of being a soccer fan because they have such a huge influence on the way the game is played. So that’s where I’d make changes.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
Klinsmann, youth system
I don’t get the laughingstock label either. Soccer is the ‘facebook’ of sports (popularity wise).
You noted Klinsmann’s results improved when he reverted. Isn’t that because of the roster? Let’s give him time to find ‘his’ players, which may take years.
I don’t follow the administration of US soccer, so I’d like to ask what you mean by running out of political time. I am hoping he can be relatively successful so as to ingrain himself into US soccer as a whole, internally and externally. I’d then like to see him take over as the big boss of US soccer. He seems to really like America, it’s soccer and wants to build it from the ground up, meaning youth level. I like his vision.
Speaking of youth soccer, do you feel that teams are mostly composed of players whose parents can afford to buy their kids way onto teams? Also, a friend of mine believes US youth teams try to much to make the extra pass, playing the ‘team’ game instead of taking the shot when it’s available. This sounds like he’s talking about possession, but maybe he means that there is a right time to shoot as opposed to just continually passing the ball around, letting the teammate shoot. I don’t know about this at all. I am not connected to this level in any way, just wondering what you may be thinking.
I agree on your take about PKs being dramatic and thereby enjoyable. But, basketball and football play their ‘game’ in overtimes to decide a winner. Basketball does not shoot free throws and football does not kick field goals. Let me know when its time to discuss how to end soccer stalemates. It should be fun to engage that topic.
Coach K
For the record, as a person I think Jurgen is awesome; love his genuine positivity and respect for the players and the fact that he admires and borrows US coaching techniques and concepts from other sports (eg. “head on a swivel”). He’s not at all chauvinistic (like so many Americans) about his sport. I agree he needs to find his players and that takes time as evidenced by Fabian Johnson in the Slovenia game where he was a revelation. However, I don’t understand the long looks he’s giving to Beckerman, Goodsen, Edu and Jozy. The Slovenia win is his signature win to date (mainly because there was scoring) yet the roster was missing LD and Gooch and contained the aforementioned (less desireable players IMO) so the big difference was the system, which really opened up spaces that led to scoring which has been non existent since he took over. Prior to his taking over, we played 442 and scored consistently, as evidenced by the final vs Mexico at the RB. I’d have no issues with his replacing Sunil Gulati but would give strong preference to anyone with the balls to take on Sepp Blatter and his corrupt FIFA cronies.
Re Youth competitive teams and economics, I can only go by what I see and I don’t find them to be a limiting factor where I live. We play plenty of clubs from low income areas and they are as a rule very competitive. Furthermore, well-to-do clubs give scholarships to under-priviledged kids as young as 8 so it’s not as though they don’t have an opportunity to play club. If anything, we lose a lot of kids of means as their parents push them into private lessons and burn them out. Interestingly, while US youth soccer is the most popular of the organized sports, you rarely (I’ll say never) see US kids playing pick up at the park where they can spend a lot of time “on the ball” and develop their individual skills the way they do in other countries or sports like basketball and football EXCEPT in lower income areas. So, I am not sure how big an advantage one gets from having wealthy parents willing to drive them across town to the select team.
As far as the extra pass goes, I’d be interested in knowing what level you are referring to. My experience as a parent of comp players and as a 1x men’s coach is that passing and keeping possession are tactical concepts that are not intuitive at the youth level and must be encouraged by coaches early on or they never get it later. Perhaps that’s what your friends are seeing and as I mentioned, they are the types that are guilty of over-emphasizing results vs tactics and skills…or perhaps they are spot on and the coaches are over coaching which is too common. As they say, “the game is the best teacher.”
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
I must be the only one not worried about this announcement
Yes, we do lose a coach that has brought us some success. But UCLA Men’s Soccer has never gone this long without a national championship. Yes, he recruits great athletes, and UCLA has, by FAR, the most amount of soccer players in the MLS, but if you take a look at all the recent men’s soccer championship teams, Indiana, Maryland, Akron, UNC, Virginia, even UCSB, those teams weren’t filled with ridiculous talent that left early in their collegiate careers (see Benny Feilhaber, Sal Zizzo), they were the teams chock full of seniors with talent, commitment, and a cohesive unit. Yes, PAC-10/12 championships are great and all, but this is UCLA folks – we only hang NATIONAL Championship banners. The hard and true facts are that Jorge has never been able to take it to the next level, regardless of talent level. Now, mind you, the facilities we are working with are decrepit. The fact that UCLA Soccer shares the Marshall Field with Indoor/Outdoor Track and Field is not only lazy, but downright dangerous. Does Dan Guerrero realize what throws do to a field? Shotput, Discus, Hammer, Javelin, they all tear up the field, making for dangerous conditions for anyone, even track athletes who are warming up for their events. If Dickson and Wilson Plazas can get a facelift every frikkin year, doesn’t it make sense to do the same for a field that actually gets used ridiculous amounts?! Or at least give our championship-caliber teams their own top-of-the-line facility for practice and games (but hell, if we can’t do that for football, who CAN we do that for)?! Oh well. ANYWAYS, I think it’s time to inject new life into the men’s soccer program, which I have been calling for since the 2006 debacle with UCSB. If we are in the “conference of champions” and “#1 in NCAA championships,” I want to see coaches who can win us championships.
Agree
We’ve really underachieved under Salcedo. He’s arguably Guerrero’s worst hire outside of the football coaches. If he wants to leave for a lesser program in the same conference, I wouldn’t bet against his replacement being an upgrade.
If all you look at is titles then yes
but if you look at tactics and development, Salcedo is a rare breed… a guy who can get his team to play beautiful possession soccer and still win. That is a very difficult thing to do, especially at the college level.
by CarlosBocanegraFanClub on Dec 19, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
One thing I don’t think Salcedo gets enough credit for is his ability to manage the inflated egos that he deals with year in and year out. Case in point, look at the guts it took to drop K Rowe from the starting rotation this season when it became IMHO clear that Rowe was playing for his next opportunity rather than within the context of this year’s team.
Really interesting thread guys
The question I have though is what is UNC doing that is different from UCLA? How are they being able to dominate this sport so much. I have not been able to get the bad taste of that UCSB loss out of my mouth yet.
UNC got lucky with Ben Speas
the star who scored the game winning goal for them in the final. They poached him from Akron, where he felt he wasn’t getting enough playing time. That’s sort of a one-off that you can’t really put much stock into. If they hadn’t been able to poach Speas, they may not even make the Final Four this season, and instead of being known as “dominant,” they are that team that “just can’t get over the hump.” Speas had 7 goals and 10 assists for them this year. That being said, UNC still played beautiful soccer all the way through the tournament, so credit to them for that.
I think the real program to model after is Akron. 2009 second place, 2010 champions. They had a record 8 players drafted into MLS in the 2011 superdraft. Their best player this year, Darren Mattocks, would have been the overall #1 pick in the 2012 draft but he is skipping MLS and going straight to sign with a European club. Numerous MLS clubs would pay a pretty penny for Akron’s coach Caleb Porter, but he has signed a lucrative long term contract to stay at Akron. His ability to develop players and win while playing possession soccer is so great that he has been honored with the head coaching job of the USA Men’s Olympic Team (aka U-23 national team) for the 2012 London Olympics.
This is the type of program we should be emulating, and Salcedo did that this year with great success. 6 UCLA players are likely to get drafted in the 2012 Superdraft, making UCLA this year’s Akron in terms of shear volume of talent being sent on to the next level.
by CarlosBocanegraFanClub on Dec 19, 2011 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Here is an interesting article on Akron's Caleb Porter
US Soccer turned some heads when it hired Porter, 36, a college coach who has yet to coach a professional team. Despite his lack of pro experience (Porter turned down the D.C. United head coaching job just a year ago to stay at Akron), Porter is considered one of the best young American coaches around, with his attacking soccer philosophy setting him apart from his contemporaries.
Porter’s main tasks, along with picking the right players to help the US reach the Olympics, is implementing the attacking style he has enjoyed success with at Akron. His use of a high-pressure, possession-oriented 4-3-3 formation should maximize the skills of the current U-23 pool, a group filled with quality midfield and forward options.
by CarlosBocanegraFanClub on Dec 20, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Winning trumps tactics
The goal isn’t to look good, it’s to win.
To be clear, I don’t think he should be fired. It’s just that I’m not convinced he would be a big loss if he chose to leave. We’ve had a lot of talent come through the program without being consistently competitive nationally. We did have a good year this year, so maybe he’s turned a corner. Or maybe he got a bit lucky with having so much talent stick around and we’ll be back to square one next year.
"Decrepit"? "downright dangerous"?
Utter nonsense. I was on the track team in the 80’s, and I assure you that there were no injuries due to a damage infield. None. I’ve been to several soccer games this year, and again I assure you that there were no injuries due to a damaged field. None. No odd bounces, either. Also, moving the soccer teams into Drake WAS AN UPGRADE from where they were before.
The facilities question is a distraction.
The Women’s VBall team just won a title out of the Wooden Center. Soccer has won titles while playing on the IM field. UCSB won their soccer title by playing in an old decrepit (!) football stadium. Did you see Louisville’s stadium on TV? Not the best. We get top-flight talent incoming every year. They seem to be happy enough with our facilities.
As for the coach, I think he’s doing well enough. We gave UNC — the eventual champs — a game they survived by the skin of their teeth. We lose talent regularly, but we are able to restock.
I think this line of thinking
would be appropriate if it was still the 80’s or 90’s, when a good coach could really dominate the college soccer landscape like Sigi Schmid at UCLA or Bruce Arena at Virginia. But those days are long gone. Soccer isn’t some niche sport anymore like water polo or cross country. The rapid growth of MLS and rising popularity of the Champions League and World Cup means that kids aren’t dropping the sport to play football and baseball like they used to. American kids can realistically dream about going pro and making a go of it in a way like never before. Eric Wynalda recently commented on this and stated “I wish I was born in 1989.”
This expansion of the talent pool means increased parity among college programs. Success will come down more to coaching and development rather than just riding good recruiting classes.
Coach Salcedo is one of the few college coaches who has successfully implemented beautiful, possession-oriented soccer and been able to win with it. Check out that ESPN article I linked to about how he has made a big tactical shift. You can count these coaches on one hand. Porter at Akron, Salcedo at UCLA, and Somoano at UNC.
This is no easy task. Most teams that try to play beautiful soccer end up failing miserably. It is very difficult. It is much easier to bunker, destroy, play long balls, and win ugly 1-0 games.
by CarlosBocanegraFanClub on Dec 19, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Um, yes we have "gone this long without"
“UCLA Men’s Soccer has never gone this long without a national championship”.
Yes we have. Look it up.
My bro went to UCSB, so he’s on my ass about this.
Yes, laughingstock
In Re: the “laughingstock” comment… Sorry, folks. Reality intrudes. Soccer is a laughingstock for its low scores. Perhaps you have noticed this? If not, where have you been? Ask yourself this question: what is the ideal score for a soccer match? What’s your answer? I know what mine is.
Going forward on this….
Ask five more people that same question (What’s the ideal score of a soccer match?), and then report back. Get their gut reaction. Obviously, some scores are higher, some are lower, etc. We all understand averages, yes? But when you go to a game, what score wold you like to see? No cop-outs allowed. Answer the question. I’ve asked lots of soccer folks this question, and most people give the same answer.
Finally, I get the upset aspect of the game as is — I’m an Everton fan. Fair point. I like me my upsets! I get what you’re saying fully.
vn
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