[Update x 2] Howland Suspends Nelson Indefinitely
Tracy Pierson breaks the news in the link above.
UPDATE (N): However, per the DB Sports Twitter:
A team spokesman says report on Nelson's dismissal is inaccurate. Howland holds his weekly press conference this afternoon. More to come.
Stay tuned.
UPDATE II (N): From DB Sports:
UCLA suspends Nelson indefinitely from team for conduct "unbecoming a member of the UCLA basketball team." No timetable for his return.
More comments from Howland on DB twitter account.
6 months ago
charnaw
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I like this announcement
but it should have happened sooner. The team should be more cohesive now. The next step is to discipline JS and if he pouts or refuses to get in shape I say let him go to join Nelson on the dishonor roll of former Bruins. The season may be over but The teams likable quotient has just increased. This is also a teachable moment for the youngsters in our families.
oh yay
just when I thought the day couldn’t get any better…
/sarcasm
Hurts our competitiveness but
raises overall team potential to live up to Coach’s expectations.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
It's a second "indefinite suspension"
Read the DBSports Twitter timeline for quotes from Howland.
by Westwood Wizard on Dec 6, 2011 10:28 AM PST reply actions
Name another coach in the history of UCLA Basketball with this many issues
with his own recruits. The overall problem isn’t the kids. It’s the daddy. (These are recuited players. Players who voluntarily came to us. These are not disciplinary issues with kids randomly assigned to a class for a Professor or teacher to deal with). Ben Howland is losing (or has lost) it. And since when does my school even tolerate, and turn it’s head from his kind of record with his own students. Stop accepting obvious nonsense.
U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins!
NBA: Where Greed Happens. RIP 10/10/11.
(this) kind of record
U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins!
NBA: Where Greed Happens. RIP 10/10/11.
I'm Sounding The Alarm - Way, Way, Way too many "malcontents" in our program.
Ladies and gentlemen, this goes beyond being a “tough, demanding coach”. Who does Ben Howland think he is with this Bobby Knight schict? No, we don’t get chairs thrown across our floor. We get mentally brow-beaten athletes htting our door. Ben Howland isn’t stubborn. I see the indications of a sophisticated, tyranical bully (systemic favortism, the dog-house affect, refusal to play to strenghts, high school studs reduced slowly, by slowly, to mild mannered milk duds). How many malcontents ran away from Coach Wooden? How many Bruins did Wooden have to bounce? I know we have historians, and mental health people on this board. Guys and gals, something’s rotten in Denmark.
U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins!
NBA: Where Greed Happens. RIP 10/10/11.
I think you underestimate
how bad things are with Reeves. I think he exhibits tell-tale signs of manic depression. It’s not so much about Howland this time, he’s got a host of problems but there’s really nothing else he can do with Reeves.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
I respectfully disagree
That it’s all howland’s fault. If a player doesn’t want to play, sometimes it’s the player.
Yes, when they happen every once in a while
But this has happened quite a few times already.
Nelson had these issues in high school.
“His biggest battle is mental,” said Gary Porter, Nelson’s coach at Modesto Christian. “It’s not the physical part. The kid is a specimen when he wants to play.”
Porter said he suspended Nelson for “quite a few games” during his senior season in high school because of a poor attitude.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-1115-ucla-basketball-20111115,0,1467032.story
Howland knew all about Nelson’s behavior problems. I think it was reasonable to take a chance on him. But it didn’t work out.
by Seth Chandler on Dec 6, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
He also got suspended
for drinking alcohol then getting into an accident in the school parking lot (he was the passenger in the vehicle).
So, you don’t get mad at the kid for being who he is. He was recruited here by Ben Howland…he knew very well the issues around Reeves. This is on Ben Howland, IMO.
No. Howland is not a magician.
He gave Nelson a chance to succeed.
I’m no fan of Ben Howland, but I don’t blame him for giving Nelson that chance. LOT’S of people are more mature as college students than as high school students. It was not unrealistic of Howland to think that a combination of a supportive environment and the natural effects of growing up would do the trick.
by Seth Chandler on Dec 6, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Okay
but BH hasn’t had a very supportive environment. He either coddles players and plays favorites or puts them in his dog house from which they can never get out of (until they transfer).
I’m having a hard time seeing how Reeves has done anything worse than getting into bar fights and putting hands on his girlfriend since even that didn’t draw the reaction Reeves is getting from BH.
Good points by both Seth and King
So far the fault is on both player and coach. I still think it’s ultimately on the player, because the Coach can’t live the player’s life for him. In this case, though, Nelson might well have thought that he would be treated no worse than the Bricklayer.
This will give him more time
To get more horrible tattoos.
by 0725brui on Dec 6, 2011 10:31 AM PST via mobile reply actions
If you can find a correlation
between increased tattoo count and decreased athletic skill or level of focus I’d like to see it. Lots of less-than-stellar athletes in many sports have tattoos. Lots of incredible athletes in many sports have tattoos. You may not like them, but they do not directly affect his thinking or play. (And no, I don’t have any, nor will I ever.)
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Tattoos indicate state of mind and values not athletic ability.
Where’s the “I love being Bruin!” tattoos?
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
Reeves Tatt's Tell the Story of His Life
which has not been easy. There was a very good story on it last year.
I abhor tattoos and would be very upset if my daughter got ink — but it is not for us to judge Reeves on this form of expression.
We should judge his play and behavior, not his appearance.
sjh
We are judging play and behavior
and in light of how poor it’s been are seeking to understand him. His tatts would seem to indicate his focus, experience and values which would tie in with his behavior. That’s all. Luke Walton’s “5 guys playing hoops” would indicate a team concept. Tyson’s eye tattoo – well, I have no idea and don’t know that I’d even accept his explanation for it because he couldn’t convince me that he’s a rational person and the more I think about it, the same for RN.
My brother has a bar code from a box of donuts inked on his neck – ??? No judgement, I guess.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
A link to the story
is here. Detractors, please read it. I’m not defending his actions or his behavior with regard to Howland’s expectations; I am saying his tattoos should not be a part of that discussion.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Appreciate the link, this comes back to me.
I don’t agree that his tattoos and forms of expression (and what is being expressed therein) should not be part of understanding RN and part of the discussion. But, at the end of the day, it’s a footnote to his primary story which is his inability to coalesce with the team and failure to get on the same page with his coach who undoubtedly has shortcomings of his own. Thanks for the iink and I respect the dialogue.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
Dennis Rodman has a lot of tatoos.
Pretty good player.
by Seth Chandler on Dec 6, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Not convinced he's do well in a major college program
His life was a mess in general.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
But he still succeeded in the NBA
Where he had even more access to the vices that plagued him with all the money he made. But he still showed up – in no small part due to Phil Jackson being a great COACH (I’m sure having a hard ass like MJ on your team helps too of course)
Laughingstock
UCLA’s two flagship athletic programs have turned us into a national laughingstock. First football’s woes, and now Howland losing control of his team.
by Westwood Wizard on Dec 6, 2011 10:32 AM PST reply actions
But
Didn’t you get upset on Twitter when we called the hoops program a joke few weeks ago? It’s all good WW. Generally enjoy your stuff but just know we offer frank thoughts not because we are “hating” but because unfortunately the state of UCLA programs prompts extremely negative assessments.
I thought that was a bit premature
But the “joke” verdict seems to be very prescient.
by Westwood Wizard on Dec 6, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Unfortunately
The troubling signs around this program has been around for few years now. The Nelson saga doesn’t really represent any kind of tipping point. At least for me.
For me now it is all about the record. Howland needs to compete for Pac-12 tile and get to the tourney (and these are bare minimum expectations for a UCLA hoops program). If he doesn’t do it this year, all bets are off.
He is lucky we are so immersed in football search. Once that boondoggle is over, we are going to put all out focus on hoops dysfunction, unless Howland has the issues fixed.
+1
However, if DG is still AD, nothing will change regardless of how badly the basketball program crashes.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but are there concrete actions we can take other than filling Chancellor Block’s e-mail and phone bank, and withholding donations? It seems like Block just doesn’t care. Any other employee of a department in this bad shape would have been let go way before now. Can you imagine if the Medical Center head was looking for a new head of oncology, and a nincompoop like DG was running the search into the ground? Block would be all over it- too bad he can’t be bothered by athletics.
Good move for Howland and the team
by bruindodger on Dec 6, 2011 10:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
How many times is Howland going to suspend him
before he finally kicks him off?
by TheFountainAndTheMountain on Dec 6, 2011 10:42 AM PST reply actions
Two more times.
Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi
UCLA is a terrible team this year. We can all see that.
For sh*ts and giggles, I wonder if any of these Reeves Nelson issues would still be around if the team were 5-1 instead of 1-5? (“wins” against D2 opponents don’t count.)
Yes, they would
Reeves would have blown up somewhere down the line, the man has some serious mental health issues, it’s a horrible problem, where there is no quick fix. I just hope Smith isn’t the next non-basketball problem, Howland has to deal with, I see him either getting his life together, puttting the work in needed to succeed or becoming a distraction and pouting on the bench, because his minutes will continue to be limited…damn, what a year.
I'd like to think this is rock bottom.
But I thought we hit rock bottom several times in the last few years.
by Kenneth Powers on Dec 6, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
There sure are a lot of rocks on this bottom
Sadly, I think that goes to show there are plenty more around.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
Okay anyone want to venture a guess as to when he'll be reinstated?
I say for the Richmond game at the latest because Richmond is a pretty good team + you’ve gotta let him get back into the flow of things before Conference play starts the game after Richmond
by TheFountainAndTheMountain on Dec 6, 2011 11:07 AM PST reply actions
Last year, I put up a fan post questioning whether Howland was a good teacher.
He has hand selected his students. He has a very small classroom. He does not seem to be having the influence on his students, either in their substance or behavior, that a great teacher should have.
Teachers find a way to elevate their students. Teaching is a call.
I have always liked Ben Howland. Much more than many around here. But, last year I began to worry that he might not be capable of communicating and influencing his students in a meaningful way.
For his faults, Reeves is a very talented, intensely competitive player. Howland has not found a way to harness some of that intensity to make Reeves more consistent and effective. That’s poor teaching.
It’s not hard to understand why Reeves was goofing around on the bench during the loss. He was severely embarrassed about the way he had played and the fact that he was not playing more. His behavior is unacceptable.
But, Howland is responsible for letting things get to this state.
Coming into the year, Reeves was projected to be our best player and most of us thought he would be our go to guy. Most of us loved him. He was given initials.
Howland has some responsibility for Reeves fall from grace in the same way that a gifted teacher has a responsibility when he fails to get the most out of a troubled, but gifted student.
I’m not holding Reeves harmless — but, Howland owns a share of the responsibility.
It’s sad to say — but I don’t think Howland is a good teacher or communicator.
And, don’t get me started on Josh Smith. Where was the teacher when the student developed bad “study” habits. I dont’ expect Howland to have followed him around at meal time, which it appears would have been a full time job, but surely Howland could have taught him the need to come back in shape and inspired him to do so.
When my students failed, a little bit of me failed. I knew I had some responsibility — not 100%, but some. CBH has to take responsibility and up his game.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Dec 6, 2011 11:09 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
Great post
Remember that Coach was greatest not just for his basketball acumen, but because he was the consummate teacher
Coach had his problem students, too.
The recently late Edgar “Bird” Lacy was one of my favorite players. He got benched by Coach in a game and quit the team.
IIRC — He and Coach reconciled before both died.
But, Coach lamented his inability to bring Lacy back and teach him more.
sjh
I believe his name was Edgar Lacey.
I agree with your comment. It was one of Coach’s biggest regrets.
Perhaps, but I don't think RN is coachable and therefore should not be exhibit A in the case against
CBH’s failure as a coach. Ultimately, his record this year will determine his future barring some scandal. His final four cred is used up.
He did enlist a (hot!) nutritionist for JS prior to his freshman year that apparently kept him from ballooning to 500 lbs. Does anyone have specific details about what Howland has actually done or not done to help RN through his issues? Or Smith’s, in order to assess who’s the bigger fail – player or coach? Absent that, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to CBH.
CBH’s comments in today’s LAT’s indicate to me he does take responsibility and feeling badly about the current state of the team.
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
I honestly believe
that RN may have manic depression. From shouting at teammates to sulking and pouting…the signs are there. Perhaps the docs can comment.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Excellent post 66
You haven’t taught until they’ve learned.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Hopefully
this will provide Lane and Stover more playing time and an opportunity to get better before heading into Pac 12 play.
No kidding.
Brendan plays his heart out whenever he is in—-which, of course, this year is NEVER. Have you ever zeroed in on his face as he sits on the bench? He doesn’t pout like JS & RN, but you can just tell he is chomping to get in the game. Howland will only play him if one of his favorites is injured or in foul trouble.
I wonder what the unbecoming conduct was?
I saw only the stats from the Texas game, but it appeared that he dogged it during the ten minutes he played.
Do we have any JV team? Can we pick someone up to fill in?
Howland is going down
Even when he was winning his players did not like him. He has no rapport with HIS athletes. Look at all the guys who could not wait to get away, yet still made it in the NBA. He knows how to teach basketball fundamentals, but he no longer knows how to coach today’s players.
He has failed to evolve, and the proof is the record and the issues over the last few years with MANY players.
Clean house and send him out with the AD as well!
Tough to say
if he hasn’t “evolved” or if he simply has recruited the wrong players who won’t buy in.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
wouldn't want him on my team
his tattoo obsession aside, definitely don’t want RN pouting while wearing the 4 letters.
telling a life story? write a book or become a public speaker…
Life story tats are a problem for me, because
if he lives long enough, at some point we are going to have to follow his life story on skin that I don’t really want to see.
Geezer take on tats – Tats say “Look at me” (with one exception, below.) Tats don’t say “Look how I meld with this team.” Unless every player is going to have the same tats, then the players should cover them up to play games. I guess I’m just too old fashioned. Given that Reeves may not make the NBA the way he’s going, he’ll find out quickly enough whether hiring managers want guys with a lot of tats. There are plenty asking me if I want fries, but not a whole lot saying “Thank you, your Honor. My client ….”
Plenty of people with whom I went to law school had tats.
They’re just more easily concealed under work attire.
by Kenneth Powers on Dec 6, 2011 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Howland is doing the right thing, but
there is obviously something rotten in his program and has been for some time. We have seen this with different players in different forms for many years now. Absent a miracle, I think this is at least strike three for CBH.
We need a new football coach, a new AD and next year a new coach for the renovated Pauley Pavilion. Yes, we are starting from scratch, the sooner the better.
I agree now with what he's doing with Reeves (and Gordon, previously)
I just wish we saw the same from Howland when it came to Dragovic.
Dragovic
Is the #1 reason why CBH’s moves call into question his ability to coach players
Collison on Rose is exhibit A in my book
Hail to the Hills of Westwood.
Reeves...
I’ve always wondered if Reeves Nelson suffered from mental health issues. If he does, or if he hasn’t been evaluated, I hope that he sees someone. Beyond playing basketball, you’d want a student/athlete to be successful in life.
My cousin was the coach at ASU, and he talked about players who had undiagnosed mental health issues, and it was only when the got to college were they finally in a system where they could get help.
Lawrence Ross
Interesting difference in views of Nelson at the Texas game
I was at the game. In the middle section behind the UCLA bench. I had the opportunity to watch Nelson and the rest of the team from the back. What I noticed is how engaged he was over the course of the second half. He was clearly into the game and most importantly rooting his teammates on. He was quite animated at times in encouraging his teammates. (I was paying attention after Bilas’ comments about team chemistry in Maui).
I was stunned to hear the comments about Nelson in the last minutes. I am not denying them just noting that there was different behaviour earlier. Not disagreeing with the suspension.
Smith did not seem equally engaged. More focused on playing with his mouthpiece (even when in the game) than on the game itself.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 6, 2011 2:02 PM PST reply actions
I saw that on TV too
Until the end of the game, Reeves was supportive.
Toward the end, there were some shots of him smiling and, perhaps, laughing.
I think we read too much into that behavior. We saw the same thing with some of our quarterbacks during a bad moment in a football game.
Unless we know what was in Reeves head, he could well have been embarrassed by his poor play or who knows what and smiled as a defensive mechanism.
I’m not as down on Reeves as most here. I think he really cares about winning and cannot handle losing.
Josh is another story.
sjh
Howland is doing the right thing
Yes, Howland recruited Reeves. So people will use that as a roundabout way of criticizing CBH. But, so did Duke, North Carolina, Georgetown, Arizona, USC, etc. Out of all those opportunities and other coaches, Reeves chose to come to UCLA to play for Howland. He knew what kind of coach Howland was (it’s no secret), and he’s the one who signed on the dotted line.
To say Howland “mis-read” Reeves is kind of unfair, since most of us would have been just as upset had Howland NOT recruited such a sought-after talent.
And he recruited Bobo, and Gordon, and Carlino, and Drago
While pushing guys like Moser out the door.
Yeah, this kind of “roundabout” criticism sure is unfair.
Hindsight is always 20/20
Everyone thought Bobo was a great signing, but he was a bust. Everyone thought Gordon was a great signing, but he turned out to be a locker room cancer. Carlino and Drago were depth signings. Moser left of his own free will because he didn’t want to share minutes with Tyler Honeycutt.
"Turned out to be"
No, there were signs of behavior problems in all of those cases. That’s fine if you recruit it and can control it, but then you assume that risk. Howland could not control it. It’s on him, and it’s not unfair no matter how much you want it to be.
I know what you're getting at, and I agree (on Moser)
But Carlino wasn’t anything more than an extra scholie to fill (and a desperation PG attempt), and Bobo and Gordon left before Moser. Those three aren’t related to the Moser/Dragovic debacle.
Incorrect
It’s all related to program management. Retention, discipline, recruiting. Handing out random scholarships is not the sign of a healthy program. It’s what Lavin did when the end was near, and it looks like that’s what Howland is doing now. I’ve always maintained that I believe Howland is a good coach. Talking heads like Bilas aren’t wrong when they assert that, but it surprises me how many people don’t understand that being coach at a major program, and especially a program like UCLA is not just about coaching. You have to manage the whole enchilada, and the proof is in the pudding: Howland is failing at it.
That makes more sense -- looking at it from the overall perspective
That Howland’s personnel management is, well, questionable. I read your earlier post as Bobo/Gordon/Carlino as being the specific reasons for Moser’s departure.
I've seen in multiple places
That perhaps Moser had a different impression of how he would be utilized when he was recruited, and that disillusionment led to him transferring. However, I didn’t see any mention of attempts to manage his expectations. Worse, I didn’t see any reason why he couldn’t get playing time to work through some of his mistakes. Howland continued to play his favorites and Moser was labeled a malcontent and that was that.
For a long time,
we all referred to CBH as the caretaker of Coach Wooden’s legacy. I think it’s safe to say at this point, team record aside, that Drago, Josh Smith and Nelson, are not examples of the type of player Coach Wooden would have recruited.
I may work with the Waves, but I'm still a Bruin!
(Formerly "HoozierDaddy")
Norman Powell
I follow him on twitter and he just wrote, " If it wasn’t for coach Jeff idk if I would still be here"
Coach Jeff was his high school coach.
I don’t want to assume the worst, but the basketball team is completely imploding. I would not be surprised if Joshua Smith starts having problems with the Ben Howland.
It sounded like he wanted out before the school year even began
I hope we’re not looking at the next Moser.
Did you type it right?
or does it say “… I would NOT be here” — otherwise, it does not make sense.
sjh
idk = i don't know
“i don’t know if i would still be here”
the grammar problem is using wasn’t instead of weren’t.
by Kenneth Powers on Dec 6, 2011 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
Who is to blame here?
Howland’s track record seems to indicate: Show up, STFU, work hard, do all the non-sexy stuff like play defense and rebound and be physical, and the result will be Final 4’s and guys playing in the NBA. Is he a hard coach to play for? I suppose. Is he a control freak. I suppose. Is it a lot of fun along the way for the players? Probably not. But Steve Jobs was known to be an asshole to work for too and how did all that work out? Final 4’s and NBA contracts would seem to be good ends to justify hard means.
Maybe I’m just grumpy old man here but it seems like the youths of the day such as Reeves and Bobo and Gordon and Jrue and JS and TH don’t really want to work at anything or do anything that might be slightly painful and tough. They sorta want to just show up for a while and take some jumpers and then get their big NBA checks at some point. CBH’s entire system is dead in the water without the appropriate personnel, but the whole cl*sterf*ck makes me not even watch Bruin basketball anymore if what we are going to be are a bunch of talented pansies that don’t want to put in the work.
"youths of the day"
Kentucky has youths of the day. They’re doing pretty well. Duke, UNC, Baylor…all succeeding with youths of today on their rosters. There are youths of today that can work together, there are youths of today that want to work and do things that are slightly painful and tough, and there are youths of today that can take coaching and learn from it.
Adults who worked for Steve Jobs were well-compensated in addition to intrinsic motivation, and they also had the option to go elsewhere if they wished (and still make good money). College kids on Howland’s teams simply have to rely on intrinsic motivation…and players on the current team now have the example of ex-Howland players seeing significant success in other college programs, showing that the grass can at least appear to be much better.
The problems we’re seeing can’t simply be tagged on ‘youths of today.’ Though I don’t want it to be the case, it’s starting to appear that there are enough internal problems pulling apart this particular team that we’re on the road to a complete implosion. The comments by transfers (who admittedly could well have an ax to grind), as well as unhappiness with Howland shown by things like Powell’s tweet MBRUIN mentions above, are becoming too repetitive to ignore…and I can’t lay them all on the players.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
I know
I run into a similar problem at work with what looks like a generation gap between the older & younger generation. And trust me, I recognize that I’m in the older group! Difference in work ethic, a sense of entitlement, lack of realizing that you have to pay your dues and stuff like that. I’ve always loved Reeves b/c I loved his competitive spirit & fire but I was so disapppointed watching him play Texas b/c he didn’t look like he was TRYING!! And what was up w/ missing the plane to Hawaii?? I don’t know if I would have even allowed him to come over on a later flight!
As for Josh Smith, I want to yank his scholarship NOW with him being so fat, out of shape & just frickin embarassing to watch him practically hyperventilate after 2 minutes on the court.
With the football season going down the toilet, I was looking forward to basketball, but now that looks like Chinese water torture too. :(
I think Howland strips the joy out of the game.
I’m as old school as they get. I value work ethic as much as anybody. But as Bill Walton said the game is about the joy of “playing.” Howland turns it into drudgery. I would charge into a ring of fire for Coach Wooden. I would never play for Howland. Reeves is a troubled young man. Howland is the worst possible coach for him. For Reeves’s sake, he needs to get away. My first concern is for this young man. Whether our program is viable under Howland is a completely separate issue.
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