Howland on the Hot seat?
by cyberdbk on Dec 6, 2011 11:20 AM PST
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PrintI know my post will be very controversial at this juncture early in the season. Let me first start by saying I am or at least used to be a huge Ben Howland supporter. I was extremely jubilant to see him hired after the Lizard was fired. I loved seeing his teams compete with passion and fire. I loved the defensive mindset of the players and that his teams showed good fundamentals of basketball which was completely lacking for many years under Lavin. Even Jim Harrick's teams didn't really show great fundamental basketball at all times despite their offensive abilities. After 3 straight final fours I was ready to anoint him the true successor to the Coach. I figured national championships are inevitable under Howland sooner or later.
But I think it's time for us to start realizing Ben Howland's limitations which has been discussed many times here on BN. Let me list a few after the jump.
1) Ben Howland has shown very little interest or ability to develop a potent offense in UCLA. I know a lot of you will come back with statistics on how this is not true. But I have not seen Howland's teams have a very fluid and sustainable offensive flow in any of his years. Despite having a lot of future NBA players such as Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, Jrue Holiday, those teams were having a lot of difficulty scoring at times. In think UCLA should be able to be great in offense and defense as a balanced team.
2) Ben Howland has not shown ability to make adjustments, change strategy during games especially in the last few years. Some of this is displayed by poor substitutions, inadequate or improper use of bench players, switching defenders when needed and many many more.
3) The performance of his teams in the last 2 years and so far this year really has to be looked. It looks like we are headed for another disaster of season. I don't think another losing season is acceptable. We were hoping that Howland has begun to turn around the program to winning ways after improving last year.
4) Players leaving the program early or transferring has been very distasteful to fans and alumni. If it was one player or two this would not be a big issue but this has become a very big distraction to an average fan trying to follow the program. Our basketball team is quickly turning into a national disgrace and a joke.
I am now starting to miss those Lavin sweet sixteens (not really!!) I think it's time to really have a hard critical look at what has happened to our cherished basketball program and start expecting accountability from people in charge. I am talking about DG and now Ben Howland himself. I know BN has listed expectations for this year that Ben has to meet, but based on what we have seen so far, they are not going to be met. It's time to put Ben Howland on notice and that includes his eventual replacement this year.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Controversial at this juncture?
I’m surprised there hasn’t been more controversy, honestly.
Thanks for laying it out in a coherent argument, and you echo a lot of the sentiment people have been saying recently. The 3 Final Fours clouded people’s opinion a few years back, but the lack of ability to maintain success is a definitely problem
Final Fours
Three straight trips to the final four has given Howland a lot of room for error and as a result we have given him the benefit of the doubt. Something no other coach would have gotten. But I think he has already depleted all his credit here.
Sorry, the real problem is you
I am getting so sick of these ridiculous posts about Howland. Howland is a fantastic coach, the finest this school has had since Wooden, by a long shot.
When you say ‘Despite having a lot of future NBA players such as Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, Jrue Holiday, those teams were having a lot of difficulty scoring at times’ I’m just wondering, did you watch those players evolve while at UCLA? Westbrook was a nightmare as a freshman – couldn’t hit a shot to save his life. Malcom Lee was mediocre at best as a freshman. Those guys bought into Howland’s system and commitment and became extraordinary total players. So did Affalo, Collison, etc.
All the NBA players (maybe excepting Love), are great because of playing under Howland, who prepared them better for the NBA than any other college coach. The proof is in the pudding – and don’t tell me these guys would all be in the NBA had they played for some other coach who just ’let’s them play’ as you all seem so badly to want.
Lavin let them play. He was the single worst coach I have ever witnessed in my life. He placed zero emphasis on defense, he blew ridiculous games, he had no focus, he just grabbed big recruits and let them go out and ball. 48 point loss to Stanford was the worst display of UCLA basketball I’ve ever seen.
When players buy into Howland’s system, which requires total commitment to defense and – more importantly – total commitment to expending maximum effort every second on the court – then his teams show the type of Bruin basketball all of us loved during those final four runs. And don’t tell me his teams had the most talent either – they didn’t. Don’t give me this Kevin Love should have guaranteed a title rubbish – also bull.
Howland’s problem is the same of any college coach: players leave too early to develop consistent team cohesion. If this team had Malcom Lee they’d be top 10. I went to the Texas game and saw him hanging out in the Bruins club room – he should have been on the court!!!! Honeycutt too would have been nice.
His second problem is that today’s player is spoiled and entitled (somewhat like a lot of bruin fans!). They feel as if they should jump straight to the NBA on their talent alone; they look at a coach as a peer, an annoyance, and they look at UCLA as a stepping stone.
That’s why mid-majors win. They have kids that play with heart and passion on a team for four years.
Good for Howland for not coddling these guys any longer. Smith needs to take responsibility for himself for Godssake. What an opportunity he is squandering! He should be a superstar and instead he is most often a liability, all because he has failed to rise to the occasion and commit himself to the total dedication being great at this sport requires.
Reeves is a player that when he is invested in the game is just a joy to watch. He has heart and passion. But damn it if you have heart it has to be engaged the second you step on the court, no matter what happens, no matter how many points you are down or how badly your teammate made a pass. Heart isn’t sulking, it is lifting up the people around you. Heart is asking yourself what more you can do to help the team. Heart is stepping up when a game is on the line. Heart is winning through sheer will.
I remember when I was a freshman at UCLA. I watched the bruins play UTEP early in the season. UTEP took a late lead. Fans were disgusted – this was UTEP!!! Calling for the coach’s head, calling the players bums.
What happened next turned me into a bruin hoops fan for life. The UCLA point guard, a freshman, took over. He had more heart than any player I’ve ever seen. Miracle shots, steals, incredible. Bruins won at the last second. Walking out I heard numerous fans comment about how the game never should have been close, what a disappointment, etc. I couldn’t believe it. One of the best games I’ve ever seen.
That little guy was Tyus Edney. Freshman year. Four years later they willed their way to a National Championship. Ed O’Bannon took that team on his shoulders and demanded they win a title.
Heart. Spirit. Without it just a bunch of dudes running up and down and flinging a ball at a hole.
Howland gets that and teaches that. Stick with him, quit this getting rid of the coach crap (you won’t, but you should), and realize he embodies the principles of greatness represented by the 4 letters on the bruin jersey.
His players should realize that too.
by jeffyskate on Dec 6, 2011 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Jeffy, I think you argue against yourself, at least in part.
You say, "When players buy into Howland’s system, which requires total commitment to defense and – more importantly – total commitment to expending maximum effort every second on the court – then his teams show the type of Bruin basketball all of us loved during those final four runs. " Then you say “Howland’s problem is the same of any college coach: players leave too early to develop consistent team cohesion. … His second problem is that today’s player is spoiled and entitled (somewhat like a lot of bruin fans!).” Howland picks his players. If he doesn’t bear the responsibility for not getting players who will give the required "total commitment to defense and … expending maximum effort every second …, " then who does have that responsibility.
I don’t think you can have it both ways. You can’t applaud Howland the Coach and absolve Howland the Recruiter. Plus, you seem to overlook some of the obvious problems with Howland the Coach, the most obvious to me being his unwavering loyalty to a truly bad basketball player, the Belgrade Bricklayer.
I know for sure that I don’t have the answer to the Bruins’ problems. You post tells me that you don’t have the answer either, at least in my opinion. What the two of us think is irrelevant. The problem is that I don’t think Coach Howland has the answer, either.
Really?
I read your post despite it’s title; so the problem with the basketball program is “me”. Ok!. Your point about it’s the players responsibility to perform and not the coach is nonsense. The coach is the key to any sports team performance. Just like any player, the coach too must be evaluated according to a few parameters the most important of which is the win/loss record and overall performance of the players. You said yourself the mid-majors win because of their heart and determination. Well, why can’t UCLA win for the same reason? Is Howland not recruiting players with those qualities? Then he should be accountable for that. The fact is even established programs win as well as mid-majors such as Duke, Kansas, North Caroline, kentucky and a lot of others. Your logic is faulty.
Yes really
Um, not once did I say it is not the coach’s responsibility to perform.
Howland is 191-88, and 17 of those losses came in his first year where he inherited a mess. He’s taken the bruins to a national title game and two final fours, and to the tourney in all but 2 years. Those are fantastic numbers.
The bruin fan formula (I’ve sadly seen over and over again) is as follows:
1. Love the new coach! Savior! Greatest thing since sliced bread.
2. The new coach is fallible, but let’s give him a chance.
3. Coach makes terrible decisions. Anger. Frustration. Abundant armchair coaching.
4. This coach is horrible!!! Look at all the other great coaches out there! Ridiculous! This is UCLA! Wooden, Wooden, Wooden! Cut off the AD director’s head! Mail stuff to the chancellor!
5. Repeat.
Wooden would have never made it at UCLA based on the above.
jeffyskate
There is nothing wrong with making cases for Howland. However, if you are going to do so by attacking UCLA alums and fans on this community, stay away.
You are also using stats selectively. You are not sharing Howland’s record from last 4 years, which actually at this point is worse or around the same as Lavin’s last years at UCLA.
Lastly, don’t ever bring up the Lavin talking point about UCLA being spoiled. That is complete BS as we have painstakingly shown over the years. If you are not going to engage in respectful discussion and attack other members, then don’t engage. It is against the community rules and if you keep breaking it you will be gone. This will be your only warning. Thanks.
whoa
Hey Nestor sincere apologies to you and anyone else I may have offended. By no means am I meaning to attack anyone, particularly UCLA alums and fans as I am both myself.
One thing I am not, however, is a sycophant. Until your post I believed I was making valid, well-reasoned points that may not represent the majority view, but nevertheless are worthy of discussion and debate. While my view may be a strong one, it appears this forum doesn’t mince any words; are you seriously telling me that what I’ve said thus far is offensive?
Granted, one of my views is that bruin fan culture is, and has been, critical to the point of detriment to coaches that potentially could become the foundation of greatness for this university. I have seen a lot of coaches at this university, and others, and I believe Howland is exceedingly good. It is thus with the best intentions that I raise these points, as I would hate to see a great coach like Howland go because of what I consider misguided fan pressure. I think coach turnover in college sports is to its detriment, particularly when good ones are shown the door due to a poor season or two.
I don’t know how to raise this point without possibly offending people that hold the view that Howland is a terrible coach; nevertheless it is a reasonable perspective from a very loyal bruin, namely ME.
Surely you don’t ban people for merely disagreeing with what is certainly a debatable topic. I’ll tone down my rancor if it bothered anyone.
You are missing the point
Your characterization of Bruin fans is taken basically out of Steve Lavin’s excusebook. Applying that label to our community, which even held off calling for Neuheisel’s job until we were absolutely sure we had an airtight case that he was not cutting it here long after others had given up on him, is not something we are going to tolerate without pushback. After all the time we have spent debunking Lavin’s nonsense, you can’t expect to bring that nonsense back up, smear us with it, and expect us to not take offense.
If you want to make a case for Howland’s retention, you can drop the Lavin strawman stuff and point to areas you see the program improving such that we will be annual conference contenders and occasional national contenders again. Pointing to the past isn’t going to help you much, because the most recent past is ugly: 38-34 from 2009 till now against division 1 competition. If you cannot see a viable and evidence based path back to contention, then any arguments you want to make are non-starters, because those are the reasonable expectations for this program and they are non-negotiable. We know it’s possible, because our blue blood peers do it. We do not expect titles every year. We do expect to be relevant. Even the staunchest Howland supporter has to admit the program is trending downwards. So tell me, what is it that you see going forward that makes you believe we will be relevant again?
To be honest, I support Howland, but will quickly stop saying so.
Not because I won’t still support him, but because the BN will turn on him and anyone who supports him.
I saw what happened to Neuheisel supporters. So even though I could mount tons of evidence in support of Howland, and I believe he has infinitely more support than Neuheisel has in the public’s eye, I won’t make those arguments on BN because the writing is on the wall. Once the BN community decides Howland is toast, it will be easier to just read and observe instead of fighting a losing battle supporting Howland.
To be honest, I just don’t like insults. I don’t think anyone deserves to be insulted, specifically called names, and “neub” is an insult. I am sure some insult will be applied to Howland supporters (instead of Howland supporters), and at that point it is better just not to engage than to try to make arguments in support of a coach. Coach Wooden would never have called someone a neub, or anyone other insult, and he wouldn’t have tolerated anyone who did. So that’s why I will support Howland through this season, but won’t say anything about it.
Michael C
www.onviolence.com
How convenient
I’m sure you’ll have “tons of evidence” just like the Neubs had “tons of evidence” but mysteriously declined to cite any of it. It sounds almost like someone who wants to air their whiny bullshit about tone and content in public without having to answer for anything they say. Let’s cut the crap. The reason Neubs didn’t cite evidence is because they didn’t have it, or they recognized that whatever they cited looks stupid in the light of cold hard facts. You’re already anticipating having to answer for an unsupported opinion and are preemptively whining about how people who ignore reality are going to be treated. If the facts don’t back you up, then the problem isn’t us, it’s you.
You don’t like the way things are run? There’s the door. Sorry that facts and evidence aren’t your bag, baby.
What bothers me is
That Howland may very well still be good at his job. It’s not like he suddenly lost the ability to coach after the 2008 season. The main problem is that he simply isn’t reaching his players anymore, and is stubbornly sticking to his favorites while benching players who have more talent. This results in highly touted recruits spending entire seasons not getting into games unless it’s a blowout (see: Stanback in 2008, Moser in 2010), and other highly touted recruits getting thrown into Howland’s “doghouse” with him not even seeming to try to reach out to them (see: Gordon in 2010, Reeves this year). This eventually leads to guys transferring or guys leaving early (see: Holiday and Honeycutt and Lee leaving far far far earlier than was wise or advisable), and usually dropping some parting words about UCLA and Howland’s system that makes it that much harder to convince other good young players to come here (see: Holiday’s BS following his departure, Gordon’s following his, and I’m sure we’re about to see something from Reeves any day now). Honestly, underachieving on the court is awful, but it hurts twice as much to know that we’re constantly losing talented players who could be helping us. This is Howland’s biggest problem; if he loses Reeves and/or Smith via transfer mid-season, a la Gordon, that should be the last straw.
If he's not reaching his players
then (at least by my definition of a teacher/coach) he’s not doing his job. In my first few months of teaching I gave a social studies test. We had gone through the chapter together and read all the material. Everyone bombed; the average was somewhere in the 20s or 30s, and I think there were one or two out of 30+ that got a passing score. That didn’t tell me that my students were stupid; it told me that I wasn’t reaching them and I needed a different approach. For whatever reason, Howland’s not reaching his players right now. To me, that tells me he’s not performing his job very well.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Josh Smith
In a Herman Cain-like Utopia, where everyone is responsible for themselves, I might let Howland off the hook. All the transfers—can’t be a coincidence. At the very least, Howland has to assume responsibility for a ton of disastrous recruits.
For those who say cut loose Nelson and Smith, well it might be too late for Nelson now, but take the long view. Not one but two disastrous seasons will be on the horizon—with Shabazz the only possible saviour.
I am particularly worried about Smith-the franchise. How do you let him gain weight? And what was all the BS in the media about him losing 5 to 15 lbs-who planted that? Maybe Smith was never going to make it because he simply cannot stay on the floor, but you have to tread lightly when you take away the starting job from a kid like this last season and benching him even more this year. What’s the reason that Howland gives-that he has to practice on a High School length court—who’s that on?
Hey, Stover is a great kid, but come-on! Let’s forget about his offense, have we taken a good look at his defense? I know the talk is always about blocked shots, but his man blows by him far more times in a game than the number of block shots he puts up. Point is, we may be doomed if we don’t get back the Josh Smith we thought we had going into this year.
There's no way
that we could get the Josh Smith we were expecting to have at the beginning of the year in time for the final game of the season. Not gonna happen.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
I meant just in technical terms
I.e., he hasn’t suddenly forgotten how to teach defensive fundamentals, et cetera. But I do definitely feel like he’s lost his players. Reeves won’t give him the time of day, Josh looks like he’s not even trying out there, and Lazeric is jacking up a ton of shots a game and not even seeming to realize that he’s allowed to pass the ball. That is not what guys like Farmar/Collison/Westy would have done in past years, especially if they were in deep shooting slumps.
So what you're saying, Michael_C, is that you actually have no arguments
Many of us here in the BN have had our minds changed when presented with reasons to do so. I think I have changed minds by arguing factually. Your argument, as I see it, is that you have secret evidence that supports your position but you can’t share it. Or to put it another way, the emperor has beautiful clothes, always has, always will, and anyone who says different has unreasonable expectations.
That’s not a particularly effective argument, in my opinion. I have lots of arguments that I know would change your mind, but I’m going to keep them to myself because blah, blah, blah.
Thanks for the question
Frankly for someone new to this forum I find your stance a bit harsh and perhaps a little hypocritical. You can dish it out just fine, but threaten to ban and then berate someone for expressing a contrary opinion???
I don’t have to admit the program is trending downwards, thank you very much. And incidentally I have the exact same expectations of national dominance that does the staunchest bruin. I sit at half court 7 rows up with those expectations. It is precisely because of those expectations that I am patient; I have seen the ebb and flow of many of our teams, our last national champion included, and believe that Howland has exactly what it takes to return UCLA to its proper position. If you want to ban me for feeling that way, go right ahead!
To answer your question, I believe the following factors make the bruins relevant:
1. Excellent recruiting – Kyle Anderson, Jordan Adams, possible other blue chips. Normal Powell looks great so far. Josh Smith, despite his woeful conditioning, was a coup coming out of high school. Howland can recruit talent, and talent is what every ‘blue blood’ school must have first and foremost.
2. Player development – High school players want to play for UCLA because Howland turns them into NBA-worthy, complete players. Ask the NBA coaches and scouts – they know and endorse a UCLA player when they see one. The list is outstanding, and a growing testament to UCLA’s coaching reputation. If the player is willing to put in the dedication, Howland turns them into greats. Player after player is transformed from Freshman to Sophomore year. Did you see Russell Westbrook as a freshman? Malcom Lee Tyler Lamb?? The buy in is up to the player; Reeves Nelson is a great example. He should be a monster but has to look inside himself to find it; I hope he does.
3. NBA has turned into a development league. Ironic that the huge success Howland has had getting his players NBA ready is also the program’s achilles heel. They have lost player after player to the NBA. I don’t think you can knock Howland for this – in fact you have to cut him a little slack. His recruiting is good enough that he’s had to deal with this issue more than most coaches. He has adjusted his recruiting because of this – that is the whole idea of a Zeke Jones, who has started slow but I think will be a quality player this year for the simple fact that he’s older, more experienced, and worked his tail off in the off season (which is why he’s pressing right now – he’ll get it dialed in). But it is tough to lose guys like Lee and Honeycutt who would be dominating in college but were too tempted by the paycheck of the NBA.
3. Commitment to defense. The old cliche defense wins championships is especially true in college basketball. When Howland came to town UCLA started to play defense like the aforementioned blue blood teams on the east coast we ostensibly want so badly to crush. His players have to commit to the level of intensity he demands, and that can take time, which is why his less talented and experienced squads get better over the course of the season. Howland wants a national champion-like effort; apparently some kids have to lose first to understand what that entails. This was the case of last year’s team. Generally the pac 10 (or 12, whatever) is a more physical league now because of him, and to compete nationally we needed that.
4. Recent History. You criticize me for my stats (his overall record?) and then come up with some biased ones of your own!! How convenient to start counting the season after the Kevin Love post-final four exodus, a season everyone knew was going to be tough. Bottom line is most D1 schools, blue bloods included, would love to have the three recent final fours we do, as well as Howland’s W/L record. Last year was headed in the right direction.
This year is obviously a big setback but no one is more cognizant of and committed to fixing that then Howland. And he will. I support him 100%.
Your arguments are flawed and frankly naive
Our recruiting has been a total disaster last few seasons. Getting Anderson and Adams was nice but we still don’t have any true pg in our roster after whiffing in recent years. Tony Parker will most likely not coming to UCLA. Shabbazz right now is looking uncertain. If we don’t get Shabbaz this class will be considered a total fail.
You cite “commitment to defense” as one Howland’s virtues yet it’s the lack of that commitment and Howland’s inability to hold his roster accountable that has rotten the core of this program. If Howland cared about that commitment he wouldn’t have destroyed the foundation of this program by making 2009-10 “the Season of Dragovic.”
There is no doubt Howland has had a lot of success turning good to great players in solid NBA products. However, that was accomplished in his early years when he showed a real commitment to defense and fundamentals. That said lot of those players left early because they were tired of the way Howland managed this program. We are not going to offer the details here in this comment thread, because the history is archived in detail in this blog.
We are going to zero in on Howland lot more once the football search is over. If you are going to offer arguments in favor of Howland, do it with actual facts and offering specific citations to support those facts. Lastly, as mentioned above, if you cannot engage in discussions without attacking other members or the moderators, don’t bother engaging. Thanks.
hmm
Nestor, I am not attacking you or anyone. A fellow bruin is always a friend of mine. I am expressing a well-articulated opinion (an ability honed at our very university). It may not be consistent with yours, but so what.. Surely you gents appreciate a variety of perspectives and wouldn’t chase someone off just because they don’t share your view. Again, if I’ve offended anyone, I offer my sincere apologies; what more can I do than that?
Meanwhile, I do disagree with your assessment of my ‘flawed’ and ‘naive’ perspective. I would offer that players left early not ‘because they were tired of the way Howland managed this program’ but rather because a whopping NBA paycheck was calling. To support this assertion I specifically cite several million dollars.
The trend of players going early to the NBA is college-wide and has nothing to do with Howland per se, except that he’s cultivated more of them then most (which is good) and therefore the problem has been compounded for our program relative to others.
You say he accomplished turning good to great players into NBA products in his ‘early years’. Really? He just had two depart for the NBA this last year. Malcolm Lee is a perfect example of a good player Howland turned into an NBA player by focusing relentlessly on defense and fundamentals.
You say our recruiting has been a ‘total disaster’. I think there are many schools that would salivate for the recruits he’s brought in.
You say he lacks defensive commitment – now don’t get me wrong the bruin defense has been horrendous so far this year. But I would maintain he’s perhaps the most defensive-minded coach in the NCAA; many if not most pundits would agree. I also maintain we’ll see that sort of defense again.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’ t like the way this year is going at all. It is very sad. However I think an all-out assault on Howland is misdirected and potentially detrimental to the success of the program. That’s my view, sorry Nestor what can I say!
I don't follow all of your logic.
Nestor talked about Howland turning players into great NBA prospects in his early years here. Let’s look at some of the players that left UCLA and Howland early:
Russell Westbrook, 4th overall pick, NBA All-Star.
Kevin Love, 5th overall pick, NBA All-Star and holder of some ridiculous rebounding and double-double stats. (Double-double…man, I hate living in Kansas sometimes!)
Darren Collison, 25th overall pick, starter by middle of his rookie year.
Jrue Holiday, 17th overall pick, started 51 games as a rookie and every game last season.
Howland just had two depart for the NBA this last year.True. Many scouts said they were unwise to do so, and both were second-round picks, not certain lottery or even near-lottery picks. Honeycutt was taken 35th; Lee, 43rd. Leaving to be a top-5 pick, or even a near-certain top-15 pick, is reasonable. Honeycutt and Lee leaving a team where they each would have been the certain stars in order to be chosen in the second round at a time when it was uncertain if there would even be a NBA season…not so reasonable.
Malcolm Lee is a perfect example of a good player Howland turned into an NBA player by focusing relentlessly on defense and fundamentals.Howland turned Lee into an NBA draft selection. Lee will probably play some. He may do well, he might start at some point, and it’s possible he’ll be in the league for more than a year or two. It’s also possible he’ll flame out in that time.
I think there are many schools that would salivate for the recruits he’s brought in.
UNLV and New Mexico are prime examples.
I’m not going to launch an all-out assault on Howland personally. I do believe that he has a very slim time frame to get the program under control, and if that doesn’t happen, he needs to be let go.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Wooden had 0 losing seasons in his UCLA career.
Howland has had two, and is about to have a third.
Your last line is key.
His players should realize that too.
Yes, they should. I completely agree. But do the current players? Have the recent players? The record Ty mentions above (I think it will be above after I post this) argues otherwise.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Point #1
Howland has had a very efficient offense, but I would agree it has not been very potent, if you define potent in terms of being able to consistently put big numbers up. When they play good defense, the offense is fine. When the defense has gone missing, well, you see the result.
So with that caveat, I agree with all your points. Something is seriously wrong with the basketball program, and it’s not just moody, overweight, JC, and poor shooting players that are the problem.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
Hate the offense
I agree that there are times that our offense has been efficient. But I have never enjoyed watching Howland teams on the offensive end of the floor. He is just not that good orchestrating an offensive flow. That has been demonstrated over the years. Blame anything you want but I just don’t think he has what it takes to coach the tremendous players potential he has had in his program.
I think we can have reasonable disagreements here
I never cared about the complaints about Howland’s offense in his early years when defensive fundamentals was in place. Our offense in those years were efficient.
I do think you have some good points about issues with offensive flow. That said the offense was getting the job done. What has been the primary downfall of Howland last three years have been serious issues with our defense and program’s move away from the “Ben Ball” identity Howland established in his first five years at UCLA.
There is one very obvious problem with the offense.
It can’t score more points than the defense gives up.
We have already shown that we have plenty of guys who either can’t or won’t play defense. If we replaced those guys with great offensive players, we would at least have a chance.
I think the much bigger problem is this:
You know who could probably play Ben Ball defense extremely well? Mike Moser, Chace Stanback, Malcolm Lee, Drew Gordon, and Reeves Nelson (which could EASILY be our starting five right now). But Howland either: 1) didn’t play them enough, or 2) clashed with their personalities too much (instead of learning to understand them, or learning to deal with them on literally any level; if Howland had been UCLA coach in 1972 he probably would have booted Bill Walton off the team for being “too controversial”), leading to the current clusterf*ck of no-defense, non-caring players we find ourselves in today.
We have been all around this problem, but I think 139 captured the whole thing in less than five lines.
You win the Hitting the Nail on the Head Award, 139.
Utilizing the talent
I think utilizing the talent is the major issue with the offense.
Efficiency isn’t a problem – Howland has always been efficient. His slow paced offense from the Big East worked well at Pitt when he didn’t have the athletes/speed that he has had at UCLA. However, rather than adapt the system to the players, he has tried forcing the system on players that may not play best in that capacity.
I still find it hard to believe that a team that once started Love, Westbrook, Collison, Luc couldn’t be more explosive, especially seeing these guys in the NBA now. To say nothing of teams before that including the likes of Afflalo and Farmar.
Efficient doesn’t mean you are utilizing all the potential
3rd Final Four was a ominous sign of things to come
BH’s stubborness and inability to adjust which we’re complaining about today couldn’t have been more evident than in that last FF against Memphis. All he had to do was switch out DC and put RW on D Rose and the Prince on CDR and that would’ve been game. Anyone watching the game could see that. Banner 12 was ours for the taking and he blew it… and he knows it. Any conincidence it’s been mediocre to downhill from there?
It should be, but it's not.
I think the only controversial aspect is when the BN announces it wants Howland to be dismissed. You younger guys have more time to wait. Geezers don’t have that much time. It’s not likely that I’ll have another 20 years for UCLA to figure out what it’s trying to do.
Sooner than later
The controversy is that I think it should be now rather than later. Personally, I have seen enough to move on. Wholesale changes we are asking should include Howland.
Howland deserves scrutiny
However, I would prefer to give him one more year. He does have a very, very nice recruiting class shaping up next year. Two top recruits already with a couple more considering the program. I would like him to have the opportunity to prove himself with this class. However, if they fail, then I think it would be time to move in a new direction.
As for this season, I still think there is hope. For whatever reason Howland’s teams always seem to start slow and improve as the season goes on. Fortunately, this isn’t football where an early loss can derail your season. I still have hope that by the end of the season this team will be playing well.
Actually his recruiting class is in limbo
We have Anderson and Adams in. However, we don’t have a pg in this class. Tony Parker is not coming and Bruins are shaky with Shabbaz. If Howland doesn’t make the tourney and we see Shabbaz going somewhere else, it will be over for Ben.
If Howland doesn't make the tourney
It should be over for him regardless of recruiting. Just IMO.
The class is ranked #9 on ESPN even with the 2 players we do have
And I still think we make the tournament.
I'm curious as to what teams you think we will beat
To get to 22-23 wins which will make a tournament berth likely. The math doesn’t seem to add up at this point in time, but I invite you to try.
No kidding
Even Howland admitted that the only way they’re making the tourney this year is by winning the Pac-12 tournament.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
I think he should be gone already.
1. Moser and Stanback are the top two leading scorers AND rebounders on a team that was top-20 in the nation prior to an upset loss on Sunday. Howland gave them both, combined, about 1% of the minutes he gave to Dragovic in 2009-10 alone. Hell, even Drew Gordon’s been solid in his year-plus at New Mexico.
2. Cal State Fullerton, University of Portland, Long Beach State, VCU, Montana, Loyola Marymount, Middle Tennessee State.
3. Jrue Holiday, Tyler Honeycutt, Malcolm Lee = all inexplicable early entries to NBA Draft looking to flee Howland’s program as soon as possible. I’ll also count Kendall Williams, who was swayed away from us and is doing much better than any of our point guards at UNM, and Reeves (who is basically gone, and will undoubtedly find himself the same kind of success as everyone else at a different program).
4. We’ve had Jrue, Tyler, and Drew all publically call out Howland’s program, and even (horrifyingly) Baron Davis encourage recruits to attend St. John’s instead of UCLA, despite his previous digs at The Lizard.
5. 11-17 (2004). 14-18 (2010). Currently 1-5 (2012).
Five good reasons why Howland should already be fired, and a new basketball head coaching search should be underway.
Fair enough.
Although it should be pointed out: UCLA football doesn’t exactly have a rich, well-known history attached to it (although we all know that we’ve had a much better past than anyone cares to remember), and as such, is not considered on the same level as programs like Ohio State or Texas or Oklahoma. But UCLA basketball is an American Institution with the richest history of any program in the country; it’d be hard for me to believe that there wouldn’t be excellent coaches chomping at the bit for the chance to be the coach to turn everything around and return UCLA to national glory.
Solid points
Ty for the 5 points. Now if we could get a new AD…
Keep Howland off the hot-seat
while Guerrero is still AD.
The football search suggests to me we are better off with Howland than with whatever coach Guererro would find.
Of course
The new AD will come in with specific mission of getting a new hoops coach and most likely a football coach in next 2-3 years.
recruiting
the only top flite, one and done, anybody would want him prospects he has ever gotten are KL and Holiday. Love came here as much out of reverence for UCLA’s history of incredible big men as anything Howland was selling. Holiday was a local kid who may have been caught up in the prospect of being at a big name school with the “best class in the country.”
what concerns me is that howland succeeds with under-recruited kids with a chip on their shoulders. he does not do nearly as well with higher prospects who want to showcase for the nba. in today’s cbb world, it seems like guys that both recruit the best players and get them to buy into their system (coach k, williams, and even calipari) are the ones who will ultimately succeed.
by South Campus is for Lovers on Dec 6, 2011 12:31 PM PST reply actions
I believe the lack of a strong offense
is a result of a lack of fantastic playmakers.
We had Farmar, Collison, and even Honeycutt to some degree in years past, but this year we essentially have no one. Zeek is a shoot first guard, Lamb has no confidence, and even Jerime can’t run a fast break for his life.
Kyle Anderson COULD be that playmaker we need, his “basketball IQ” is rated very highly, but it does nothing for us this season.
Even with the playmakers we had long droughts
The statistics for the Final 4 years showed a very efficient offense. But what the statistics do not show as well is that the Bruins under CBH always had awful offensive streaks. With weaker teams, the awful streaks come more often and last longer.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 6, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
There were some concernsIIRC
early on about his ability to sustain a programs success. He came with a clear track record of turning programs around but never sustaining them before moving to his next project/position. Unfortunately, I think we are getting the answer to that question now….
I should be working right now...
This is not controversial.
No one is saying to fire him now, but if he fails to meet the minimum expectations, or equally
Iikely, has a losing season, his program will have imploded. He will have fired himself.
Bottom lin: You can’t keep a coach who can’t keep his own players.
I'm about out of patience with Howland myself.
I’m not going to boil it down to easily document-able stats that can either be refuted or supported. I’m going to go with good old Eye Test.
My (increasing) problem with Howland is much the same as with Rick’s Football teams. In the off season we pick up some headline worthy recruits. We hear how camp is going well, the team really likes each other, they’re working hard. Then, we get the first look at them, and they look worse than a High School team! Even if you take into account the early departures, The rest of the guys that did play together should at look cohesive when they are on the floor.
I’m going to skip the easy target Reeves Nelson and get straight to Josh Smith. Early last year you could tell he was raw, but had a lot of potential. You could see with the naked eye that he was having a hard time hedging up top, and when Howland started Stover with Smith coming off the bench, it was the right thing to do. By the end of the season, Smith had improved dramatically, and you could see it when he hedged up top. Fast forward to this season and not only does he look the chubby freshman, he plays like him too! He looks like he didn’t play at all last year.
While Jeffy would hold Smith accountable for not getting in shape (and rightfully so) I have to seriously question why Howland felt he should get as much playing time as he did to start the year.
I could go on, but Guerror already has my blood boiling.
Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi
Tend to agree.
Last few years its been tough to watch our basketball team, the product really hasn’t been good. Few good points here and there, but overall fairly bland.
On Josh Smith, probably better not even to get started also. :)
Wouldn’t it be nice if DG just resigned this evening.
Keep Howland, Dump Nelson
Here are my comments toward the posts above: great defense wins championships; great offense scores a bunch of points. Great NCAA coaches build team legacies; great NCAA players jump to the NBA after a season or two. In summary, keep Howland and dump Nelson!
Great NCAA coaches
adapt to the skills, abilities, and deficiencies of their personnel from year to year. Great NCAA coaches have a level of connection with their players so the players do not tune them out.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
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