Defensive Coordinator Search: What Can Brown Do For UCLA?
by Achilles on Feb 14, 2011 8:01 AM PST
in Football
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PrintThe weekend came and went and UCLA is still without a defensive coordinator. Right now public reports point to Steve Brown. May be there will be some sort of official announcement sometime early this week.
Although I am okay with the potential hiring of Steve Brown there is an issue that is bugging me just a bit. I have not seen any information that credibly establishes Brown as an aggressive minded defensive coordinator. From what I have read in recent days, it sounds like Kentucky brought in Rick Minter to essentially take over as their DC to run the aggressive 3-4 scheme. Kentucky's official blog posted this:
With the addition of Minter, there is some belief that UK could switch from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4 base, which has recently become a Minter signature. Minter said it's a possibility for the future, but he doesn't anticipate changing defenses right now, especially with a bowl game on the horizon.
"We're going to run the Wildcat defense here," Minter said. "Philosophically, I came up under a four-down system. In the last three or four years, I have really branched off, matching the finesse and flexibility of today's offenses because I think you have to be a little bit more diverse. I don't think you can always get locked in with four guys with their hand on the ground.
I have not read any information in public from Kentucky sources that shows Brown was adept at running the 3-4 defense. That gives me bit of a pause. One of the big reason we wanted to move on from Chuck Bullough was his base 4-3 defense. Our defenses seemed vanilla against number of dynamic Pac-10 offenses. The hope was that Rick would bring in someone with a track record of being an aggressive minded DC. I am not seeing that track record in Brown. If anyone here is reading something different that comes from a reliable Kentucky source, please share that in this thread.
My thoughts about should not be construed as some kind of "Veto" on Brown. The situation is different here because Brown does have legitimate experience as a DC which wasn't the case for Seto (and Bullough when he was promoted to take Walker's spot).
Another issue that is out there is why UCLA waffled on Randy Shannon. I have read number of references to Shannon's "baggage." So far the only "baggage" I have been able to find (not having to do with results on the field) is this:
Earlier today, Dan LeBatard sent fears down the spine of Hurricane fans by announcing on his radio show that the Miami Herald would be breaking a negative story about the sports program this afternoon. Well it's here, and it a minor little thing that involves, uh, text messages.
Apparently, coaches from the football team, women's track team and maybe the baseball team were sending text messages to recruits that broke some NCAA rules. The investigation has been going on since January.
UM self-reported the incident after discovering the text messages internally.
We have seen lot worse in the world of college football. Is there anything else besides message board speculation?
I am not going to get all bent over Randy Shannon at this point. If Brown is the guy, I am willing to give Rick his shot because ultimately it will come down to results on the field. Here is how I hope Steve Brown will fall into the various wish list categories of all parties involve break down after following this drama for almost two months:
Rick Neuheisel:
- Versatility -- ability to adapt to 4-3 or 3-4 depending on personnel.
- Style -- aggressiveness and blitzing.
- Attitude -- in-your-face, gets people moving.
Administration:
- Personality -- team player, as by all accounts he was gracious despite demotion by Phillips to co-DC.
- Price -- DC from a lower-tier SEC school, so we can offer "competitive" salary
- Diversity -- they love being dazzled in that fancy "suit".
Fanbase:
- Experience -- 4 years as DB coach, then 4 years as DC at Div. I school; 6 years asst. coaching in NFL, including for Super Bowl Champ.
- Progress -- substantial, measurable improvement team's defensive stats in 3-4 year span.
- Preparation -- has a scheme in place BEFORE getting blasted by 2nd quarter.
I am still not sure about the versatility part. Actually I am not sure about any of the bullets under Rick's wish list. I think that is what he wants. But I have not read anything positive or negative either way on that account with respect to Brown.
If Brown doesn't work out, Rick will pay the price next season. In a weird way that is a positive factor in this potential hiring. May be Brown will fare much better at UCLA with access to better talent. Our defense is going to be loaded next season. If he is a good coach, he should be able to use that talent to put together a great product on the field. He will have to because if he doesn't his head coach will be out of a job.
My desperate hope now is Rick will make a good decision here because his job is on the line. That is all I got for now.
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Id love to say that i have confidence
in any decision that CRN makes as far as the DC search is concerned, but my passion bucket is running low. Your bullet point on price for a lower tier SEC coach is right on the money!
As a die hard Bruin I’ll hope for the best, but its hard to get excited about this potential hire.
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.
I was happy
when crn finally tossed Bullough, but the almost-hires have been frustrating. At least there’s been variety between ‘this one might have been good’ and ‘glad we avoided that one.’ Regardless, the passion my bucket started with 58 days ago has almost all leaked and evaporated away.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
A Few Random Thoughts On This Excellent Post
1. In another thread, there is a long, analytical post from a Kentucky fan blog that makes Brown sound very much like an experienced Bullough — not all that aggressive, not all that flexible, and unable to scheme against the types of diverse offenses we see in the Pac 10;
2. In another thread I challenged the use of the unsourced rumors that are behind assigning “baggage” to Shannon. If we don’t want Shannon, that’s OK; what’s not OK is making it a “character” issue without substantiation;
3. In several other threads here, the argument that it is money that is holding up hiring a top notch DC — including Shannon — has been put to rest; contrary to common belief, we do not pay our football staff poorly; we are not at the bottom of the Pac 10;
4. When CRN started to realign his staff, speculation was that he was freeing up money to hire a top notch DC by “taking” some from the OC slot to do so; he also fired some other coaches and assumed a position duty on his own; the one thing we don’t know is where the money came from to buy out CNC; if we are in the hole because of the buy out, to me, that decision is even more suspect; my bottom line question, do we have more or less to spend on our DC than we anticipated? Until someone shows me otherwise, I think we have to stop waiving the “cheap” flag as a justification for the process we’ve been going through;
5. There is a difference between “trusting” crn’s judgment and “deferring” to it; I am prepared to defer to his choice so long as that choice is qualified; Brown is qualified, but if what the Kentucky fan base writes about him is true, he is not a strong choice; crn has emptied my “trust” bucket — the hire of the totally unqualified Seto and then the terrible circus that surrounded the removal of the offer, have left my bucket empty; how he could so badly miscalculate both Seto’s qualifications and fanbase acceptance is beyond me; and,
6. I truly believe there is someone out there who better meets the standards set forth in A’s post — particularly on the aggression and creativity standards; there are great coaches at small or Division II schools who would fill our bill; I am really dismayed that after more than 55 days we have a short list that, in terms of schemes, does not look much different than Coach Bullough.
At some point, crn has to make a hire. And, I will have to start the healing process and get over the incredible disappointment and disillusionment with which I view him.
When he got the job I wanted him to succeed — because he was one of us and because I want my Bruins to succeed. I still feel the same way. When we take the field next year, I will cheer my loudest. And, I hope that one of my favorite sayings will work for crn “A raising tide raises all boats”. I hope next year’s team plays so well as to save crn’s job — for it will mean a successful season for all of us.
sjh
Agree.
Don’t see how this is a real improvement from Bullough. Even with Shannon, not sure we would improve, he isn’t ideal either regardless of character. The type of DC we need are the ones not really being interviewed unfortunately.
Anyway, not sure if its going to get better than this for us. If we stink it up next year, clear everyone out once again including CRN.
In fairness to CRN, the Top 2 choices were reportedly Fangio and Long...
… and let’s face it, Fangio went to the NFL and their higher salary range, and Long became HC at SDSU, a program which he helped rejuvenate. Can’t blame those guys for turning us down if the alternatives were bigger bucks or the bigger chair.
It’s the drop-off from Long to Seto which was so gut-wrenching.
M
"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008
And what type of DC do we need?
Why would Shannon not help us improve? Why is Brown not an improvement on Bullough? I disagree with both statements, but if you could explain your reasoning I would appreciate it.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
Have you seen the Kentucky Fan's Analysis of Brown?
You didn’t ask me to explain, but I’m concerned that he looks a lot like Bullough — especially in the fact that he gives up first downs on third and long situations — oh, how I have hated that under both Bullough and Walker.
His schemes look a lot like Bulloughs. And, they say he cannot stop diverse offenses.
I’m willing to accept that those are but a few disgruntled fans. And, I agree that Brown is “qualified”.
But, I, for one, think there are some brilliant young coaches waiting for an opportunity to step up — the Urban Myers types of guys in small schools — and that we should at least have identified some of them and brought them in for interviews.
sjh
No disagreement
on that last point from me.
I’ve seen several Kentucky fans’ rants regarding Brown. I don’t know how much stock I put in them. If he truly was a bad hire, I believe we’d be hearing quite a bit more about it. But who knows. The fact is, with Shannon, Brown, Seto, some random guy, we have no idea how he would work out here. All we as fans can do is assess their past body of work, and projet for the future, which is always a dangerous road.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
by OswegoBruin on Feb 14, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
When I Needed A Car, I Went to Buy a Porsche
and quickly realized I couldn’t afford it.
It didn’t take me 58 days to buy a really great car that fit my needs and budget.
Sorry, the fact that he could not get Long and Fangio, both of whom were gone weeks ago, does not excuse the lack of planning and the development of a comprehensive list of true alternatives.
And, I join you — how in the world is Seto the next best choice after Fangio and Lane?
After my disappointment in the Porsche showroom I didn’t run out and buy a Yugo.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Feb 14, 2011 9:33 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
This is where CRN skips off the rails for me too...
Sorry, the fact that he could not get Long and Fangio, both of whom were gone weeks ago, does not excuse the lack of planning and the development of a comprehensive list of true alternatives.
Agreed!
by GemCityBruin on Feb 14, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Big difference
You can want a Porsche, realize you can’t afford it, then walk into a Honda dealer and want to buy an Accord. However, the Accord can’t turn you down because he’s afraid you’re on the hotseat and might not have a job next year, or reject you for any other myriad of issues that a DC can.
Though there are also
Toyotas and Hyundais and Fords and Nissans and…..
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Analogy issue
When you went to buy a porsche, even if you had the money, you don’t have your boss telling you “don’t buy this Porsche”.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
by OswegoBruin on Feb 14, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
There is no evidence that
dg is telling crn “don’t buy this Porsche.”
We have created and circulated the “cheap” issue much to the detriment of UCLA.
That’s why I would love to see an accounting of the net on all of the coaching moves.
Toward the end of the season, posters here wanted to get rid of Chow so as to redistribute his salary to lure a better DC. We got rid of Chow. Did we get more money, or did the buy out give us less? If less, I really question the change (of course, I favored keeping Chow as DC).
Part of the reason this is such a colossal clusterfuck is that Morgan has not managed the flow of information in a way that has not been detrimental to our program. Keeping everyone in the dark has allowed the “we don’t pay” rhetoric to grow to the point where people believe it.
I don’t. I don’t think this is a money issue. And, if rumors are true, I may be right. If we can believe there were other issues, not money, that kept Shannon from getting an offer, the “you can’t buy a Porsche” won’t fly.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Feb 14, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
66, I know that recent salaries have bucked the trend
But consider this… Rick Neuheisel was nowhere near UCLA’s top options for their football coach. We had dozens of other interviews, and the simple fact is if we could have afforded them, we would have hired them. However, the salaries we were offering, as sources reported, were not competitive. Even beyond that, Rick was pressured into keeping Walker, thus not neccessitating a buyout and a new contract with a new DC, and to hire Chow, who was already being paid the two-year remainder of his contract with the Tennessee Titans. They were all three, for all intents and purposes, cheap.
If we were going to get rid of Chow, it was going to cost us, and in the end his buyout cost us roughly $300k. Not the full $1,000,000 we owed him, but not chump change. Despite Chow’s salaries and Bullough’s promotion pay, we still do not pay competitive salaries in one of the highest-priced housing markets in the NCAA. That’s a fact. The “we don’t pay” rhetoric is not just coming from bemused football fans. It’s coming from sources of people who have interviewed, WANTED the job, but requested a more competetitve salary.
I’m not saying this is the issue with Shannon, or anyone else for that matter. I have absolutely no idea.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
Salaries
Reported Salaries of UCLA Assistant Coaches last year:
Norm Chow $640,000. Reportedly a base of $300k-$325k + signing bonus which put it at $640k.
Bullough $325,000 – no idea if this was base salary or base + incentive + signing bonus.
In 2008, Will Muschamp was the highest paid SEC assistant coach at $425,000, and when he took the DC job at Texas he was the highest paid assistant coach in the Big 12 (from wikipedia).
Again, Will Muschamp was the highest paid coordinator in the repective conferences at $850k for two years from both Auburn & Texas back in 2008. In 2010 we paid Norm Chow $1,000,000 for two years (I believe this was the #).
Therefore if we’re paying our coordinators around $325k + bonuses, and the highest paid coordinators in other conferences are making $425k – then I reject the argument we underpay our staff.
Out of public schools who report salary, Chow was the highest paid OC in the Pac-10 (2nd highest coordinator overall), Bullough was the 2nd highest paid DC (and the 4th highest coordinator overall). Those are competitive salaries.
Now if today, because we paid Norm Chow too much money and have a buyout issue so we want to spend less on a DC, I can understand we may not be competitive in salaries this year. But that is solely based on a bad decision on paying Chow too much money (in retrospect) that CRN made (and DG went along with), and therefore CRN has to deal with the mess he made.
Some more observations:
All assistant coach salary can be found here:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2010-coaches-contracts-database.htm
Out of all 907 assitant coaches, includes DCs, OCs, positional coaches, etc.
Norm Chow was the 8th highest paid Assistant Coach in the country.
Chuck Bullough was tied for 53rd.
And lastly -
From this table here:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-coaches-contracts-database.htm
In 2009 UCLA was 26th in total assistant coach salaries out of schools that did report (private schools are not required to report).
I disregard your facts for two simple reasons:
1) Will Muschamp is one of the most talented coaches in the country, on par with Norm Chow’s reputation in terms of performance. Please keep in mind as well that Norm Chow was initially paid as part of an agremeent with the Titans. We paid him next to nothing for two years of work. His final contract was hammered out SOLELY so he would not be hired by U$C who was courting him to be their new OC under Lane Kiffin. Had this not happened, we likely would not be on the hook for more than 350k.
2) As for Bullough, sure, we paid him more, as I stated above when I said “recent salaries have bucked the trend”, specifically referring to Chow and Bullough. Bullough was promoted to the head of recruiting and defensive coordinator from LB coach, thus necessitating a raise. The point I was trying to make, however, is that not before those two contracts have we paid an assistant coach ANYTHING, much less a head coach. We missed out on top targets for the HC, and all open assistant positions since, because we do not pay enough.
3) The cost of living in Los Angeles is significantly higher than it is in Texas, or at Auburn, or anywhere else you mention. When you consider our low salaries prior to this, our competitiveness was even lower. 325k to a coach who lives in LA is not equivalent to 325k paid to a coach who lives in Texas, or Louisiana, or Florida. Living expenses help bring down our “rankings” if you will, in the same way you can’t compare salaries across decades due to inflation.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
The gross amount of money we have to spend
is not insignificant. And, that’s what the statistics show.
Austin is not as expensive as Los Angeles, but is more expensive than some of the outlying areas. And, yes, there is no income tax in Texas, but there are extremely high property and “consumption” taxes.
Los Angeles is not the only place in the country with high property costs. Our higher pay scale helps to compensate for the differential.
And, no one has yet to prove that we have lost a candidate because of our pay scale. In fact, the numbers, above, show we pay quite well.
Which candidate turned us down because of an inadequate offer? In fact, who were the candidates other than Shannon, Long, Fangio, and Seto? We know that money was not the reason we lost Long and Fangio. So, prove to me it is the reason we did not get Shannon — or was it “baggage”?
Yes, we have a higher cost of living. And, I agree it affects our ability to hire. But, the entire university faces that same issue and fairs very well in the competition for top notch faculty and researchers AND they don’t make nearly what a football coach makes.
Until I see proof that we have actually lost a candidates because they have objected to what we pay — I won’t believe it. And, perpetuating the story is detrimental to our program.
We are not where we are because of money. We are where we are because crn and dg have totally fucked up the process and failed to generate a list of great candidates who are looking for an opportunity to step up to a more prestigious conference. There is someone with great potential out there who will work, gladly, for what we pay. We just haven’t done the proper search.
sjh
You can choose to disregard facts all you want to
But they are still facts. In response however:
1) Absolutely correct, Will Muschamp was probably one of the best DCs out there over the last few years, and we paid Chow MORE than Muschamp made. Also, you are correct on backloading Chow’s contract, which is why I included the 2009 salaries prior to Chow getting his fat contract. So in 2009 when Chow was getting peanuts, we were still #26th on the pay scale.
2) Do you have data to support that we don’t pay enough?
3) True, but living in Los Angeles does have it’s benefits as well. Would you rather make $325k living in Pullman, WA or in Los Angeles, CA?
Lastly, pay doesn’t mean performance. Norm Chow was the highest paid OC in the Pac-10, were we the #1 offensive team in the Pac-10? Chuck Bullough was the 2nd highest paid DC in the Pac-10, were we the #2 defensive team in the Pac-10?
I want performance on the field. If we have to pay to get it, fine. But as many teams have proven (Oregon), you don’t have to pay to get it.
All this Porsche Talk
Got me thinking about oversteer. I would make some sort of metaphor but I’m “understeering” today
EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM
by Bruins102NCAA on Feb 14, 2011 4:43 PM PST up reply actions
Having Been A Race Car Mechanic and Porsche Owner
I can say, without doubt, that experienced drivers — especially those with rear engine experience — had less trouble with the Porsche than inexperienced drivers.
So, using the metaphor, we need an experienced DC who has faced the same driving conditions and roads on which we must perform.
sjh
I'm at the point where I just don't care any more.
I was shot through the heart with the hiring/“going another direction” of that trogan. Rumors of this and that revived my corpse ever so slightly. But the continuing drama and continuing trauma of more days of inaction have sapped the last signs of life out of my formerly active (well, semi-active) body.
Take your time, CTSS. We can have a joint funeral next December. You probably will be about ready to announce your new defensive coordinator about then. I won’t hear it, of course, but you’ll announce it all the same.
(Yes, Gilbert & Sullivan fans – that last bit was a take-off from the Mikad0.)
by Fox 71 on Feb 14, 2011 9:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed!
Normally this time of the year i would be coordinating plans with family who come out on vacation for spring practice and the spring game. This year i am completely uninspired and really not sure i want to waste my time & money.
If my father were alive today he would be disappointed in that last statement but its been so tuff the last few years to keep the faith.
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.
Seconded
At this point, whatever happens happens I’ve pretty much exhausted myself trying to follow this whole saga I’m just going to wait till next December to render any judgement. Fortunately our basketball team has given me something to look forward to.
I'm right there with you
My bucket pretty much emptied when Seto was hired/not hired, then was tossed in the trash when NSD came and went with no decision. I have a hunch that this DC position is being seen as a one-year gig, and thus all the good candidates are avoiding it like a plague. Couldn’t blame them really. I’ll cheer for the Bruins next season, but really I’ll be counting down the days until we get a new head coach.
by Kerckhoff405 on Feb 14, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Count me in. Or, out as the case may be.
I am tired of it all. Exhausted.Bankrupt. Burned out. Crippled. Debilitated. Disabled. Done in. Drained. Enervated. Enfeebled. Fatigued. Overexerted. Overextended. Overworked. Petered out. Run ragged. Sapped. Sucked dry. Tuckered. Used up. Weakened. Worn down. Weary.
I no longer care who we hire because it’s obvious the administration doesn’t care either. The signs point to another uninspired hire which tells me we can expect more of the same “failing to live up to potential” game play. I don’t care because I have lost all faith in Rick to turn this ship around.
I care about our football team. I always will. I will be at the Rose Bowl for the game against Texas come hell or high water. But, I will not watch the game with the usual relish and excitement. I will be watching hoping we don’t embarrass ourselves to bad. As for the other games. . . . I think I’ll go scuba.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
Good stuff Mexi - LMAO
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that count's" - John Wooden.
BRO has a couple of good posts re: Brown and Shannon...
Greg Biggins about Brown – http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=12&f=1014&t=7183911
-Inside info from Tee Martin regarding Brown.
Greg Biggins about Shannon – http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=12&f=1014&t=7184499&stm=94448020
-Biggins thoughts about Shannon based on his own experiences, and info he received about Shannon.
FYI - Susbcriber info.
You probably already knew that, but for anybody ust coming by and seeing the links…
"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008
You will need to pay to see these
But it is a bit eye opening with regards to the two coaches. Sorry, but we cannot post that info on here. Suffice it to say the Brown material is complimentary, and the Shannon material is not.
greg in denver, UCLA guy for life - BruinsNation.com
Good Posts in the Free Bro Forum
including Kentucky fans analysis of games and statistics — Brown looks a lot like Bullough in approach and execution. Fundamentally unsound teams, stubborn schemes, lack of aggression and innovation — not what we had hoped for.
Take a look over there and see what you all think.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Feb 14, 2011 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
I never give credence to things said in the BRO free forums.
The paid ones have sound commentary, the free ones tend to be a lot of venting (IMHO).
Go Bruins!
Perhaps
But I feel like there’s an oximoron somewhere in there…. “Good posts in the free bro forum”
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
by OswegoBruin on Feb 14, 2011 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
I've never looked at the paid content on BRO
Is it that much better? If so, the free forums do them a disservice because I’ve been judging the entire site on the weak, drive by stuff in the forums I glance at, occasionally.
sjh
Night and day
Not quite Nestor vs. Bill & Ted, but not far either.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
The free board
is infested with trolls, U$C hacks, and people pretending to be Bruins. It is not worth your time.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
Very descriptive analogy, tas
I’ve never seen either place, but I now know exactly what I would encounter if I did.
You think this is bad?
At ULV, our head coach was fired on Nov. 24… It is Februrary 14 and we finally have word on our new HC.
Besides the HC troubles, the only coach who is still guaranteed on staff is our QB coach/co-OC because he was only in his 1st year of a contract, and we aren’t even sure in what capacity he will be coaching.
58 days without a DC or 81 days without a HC and no idea who will still be coaching next season from last year’s staff? Sorry, but as draining as UCLA’s situation is, my team’s situation takes the cake in comparison.
"The true athlete should have character, not be a character."- John Wooden
Sounds like the Raiders....
Al Davis likes to fire his head coaches and position coaches. He usually hires all his assistant ccoaches and the hires the head coach last. The head coach then has to work with a staff he didn’t choose. No wonder the Raiders are so disfunctional.
The only saving grace is that all will be forgiven if the team does well on the field.
In every other way, the entire coaching fires and hires have been handled in the worst possible way at almost every juncture. That being said, so far, the Johnson and Mastro hires have been good at least on paper as far as the offense is concerned.
As to the defense, we are still holding our breath. I assume it will be over soon, for good or bad. IIRC correctly spring practice starts 3/31/11. That must be a drop dead date for a hire even for this crew, right?
Hopefully, we will all soon be pleasantly surprised.
I concur with your final thought
I hope we will be surprised…but I sure wouldn’t bet on it.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
Shannon, Brown & Seto
Shannon:
I’m pretty sure that Shannon will not be hired since he’s be our coach by now if we really wanted him. Nobody really knows how good of a coach he really was since he had top recruits at Miami (ie a monkey could coach SUC and still beat most teams with their talent level most years). The thing that bothers me is that he is supposed to be an excellent recruiter which is almost as important as being a good coach. Ed O is known for his recruiting & not as a coach (kinda like CRN is a way).
Brown:
As others have mentioned, he has experience but their is no real proof that his coaching has helped improve this defense in a mediocre conference. Folks point out that his D ranking has improved in a poor conference but at least it has improved. I have not read anywhere that Brown is great or even good recruiter. Of course we will all try to support our coach whoever he will be, and yes, only the results matter…… but I can’t help to think that we are “settling” with this hire. But at this point, our options are obviously dwindling.
Seto:
The scary thing about Seto is that he was CRN’s #1 choice at one point in time. He seems like the typical up & comer high potential like hire that could end up being good for a low budget school like UCLA. I wonder what you guys would have thought about his hire if he was NOT a Trogan for life.
Anyway, sad to see that there probably won’t be that much to look forward to for UCLA football until either Hundley is named starting QB or we start winning games, or both of course!!!!
Several contentions:
1) Shannon also recruited those players, whether or not he was under much less strict requirements. I’m not sure why you’re bothered by the fact that he’s a good recruiter and has had success as a defensive coach…
2) Brown has helped his defense improve. Statistically they have gone from the 90’s to the 50’s in terms of overall defense. That is real proof.
3) We have no “real proof” that Seto was ever Rick’s #1 choice, at any point in time. We have plenty of anecdotal evidence, seemingly the only available evidence throughout this coaching search, but no real, formal proof.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
Actually...
As I read back on my post, it sounds overly negative and I didn’t mean to do that. The part about Shannon’s recruiting that bothers me is that I don’t think we will be getting Shannon. That’s one of biggest reasons i wanted Shannon in the first place.
In terms of Brown, I really hope he works out. It’s just hard after Shannon’s name has been dangled out there for so long. I’m sure the reasons behind NOT hiring Shannon have some validity but I’m also sure we will never know about them publically.
I guess I just have to get the “home run” hire mentality out of my mind and just start hoping for wins next season. Just my way of coping lol!
crn has admitted making a form of an offer to Seto
This is not speculation. And, it appears he had negotiated the terms.
In turn, he got a “commitment from Seto”.
crn cannot hire, only the regents can. So, crn went as far as he could. If Seto was not his “1” choice, whatever that means, why did he go that far in the process?
If crn tries to wiggle out of this, by saying he never made an offer, he will be hit with the name we all have been fending off “slick”. I resented when anyone at Washington used that term; but, if he denies that Seto was, at some point, his first choice, or that he was offered the job — that is just being too slick for me. Thankfully, he has done neither. He has not disputed the fact that Seto was led to believe the job was his, and that it was pulled back because “the time was not right.”
sjh
Sorry, sjh, but "the time was not right" sounds awfully "slick" to me.
How about something like “I realized after the fact that I made a horrible choice because the guy had no real experience, and was a Cheatie Petie disciple.”
Or “Gee, I thought he was a great choice, then someone told me that the Bruins Nation was going berserk and I thought I should rescind the offer.”
In short, how about the truth and not another cliche.
I am so tired of cliches and bureaucrat-ese and coach-speak that …, well, I’m pretty tired of them.
Kentucky plays in a mediocre conference?
I don’t want to “stick up” for the SEC, but calling them mediocre or poor seems… delusional
Sorry, I meant mediocre non-conference schedule
Louiville
Western Kentucky
Akron
Charleston Southern
Ah, gotcha
yeah those non-conf opponents aren’t exactly world beaters.
•Price -- DC from a lower-tier SEC school, so we can offer "competitive" salary
What the heck is UCLA doing gettng a coach from a bottom tier of the SEC. That is aboslutely riduculous. No one has every done anything from the bottom tier of the SEC conference. To go and coach at a basketball school like Kentucy must be the dump of the coaching profession. With all of the coaches that UCLA has hired overtime, there’s nothing that has been brought to UCLA from the bottom rung of the SEC.
Well that’s nothing but…
two hall of fame coaches in Red Sanders and Tommy Prothro.
Sometimes saving money results in good stuff.
Yes
he was a west coast southerner…
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Early in his career, he had come from the South with Red Sanders
I would love to have a great SEC coordinator. I respect the conference and the diversity it entails.
I’m just not sure about Brown — from what I’ve read about him I fear more of the same we’ve had under Walker and Bullough.
But, he is “qualified” and if that’s where crn wants to cast his fate, so be it.
sjh
Rght you are...
but Tomm Prothro first came to UCLA with Sanders from Vandy. Tommy P was Sanders top assistant. He left UCLA ended up at OSU and then came back – continuing the post Sanders tradition of hiring head coaches from within what has been loosely called the Bruin family.
The point here is that it is the biggest canard in the world that he’s a coach at a backwater program. The biggest issue is can he coach.
Why is it ...
that the only apparent specificity of the “baggage” being attributed to Randy Shannon is behind the firewall of a “pay site”?
Why is it that there’s nothing in the public domain that puts meat on the bones of the charges?
Sorry, but I don’t think bringing things up in the “daylight” is satisfied by hiding them behind a firewall.
I trust all of my Bruin brother and sisters who are paid members of BRO and telling us that the “charges” are substantiated there. But, as much as I trust them, I cannot reach a judgment on whether or not he has “baggage” and is, therefore, not acceptable as a candidate.
Can someone point to a reputable source anywhere else — including a Miami blog? Certainly, there must be people there only to happy to unpack his bags in public.
Again, I am not a Shannon proponent. But, this secret stuff creating a “bad reputation” bothers me.
sjh
Agree, or to put it another way, baggage schmaggage.
The fact that the ostensible evidence is behind a firewall sounds a whole lot like the evidence is from an anonymous source (verified, of course, via another anonymous source.)
What’s the nature of the “baggage.” We heard of the text messages. I assume that’s a violation but it sounds like malum prohibitum rather than malum in se to me. (Is it “malum” or “malem?” It’s been 40 years since my crim law class.) If that’s it, then I suggest that his baggage is maybe a small briefcase. Is there more? Is he a pedophile? A bank robber? An international terrorist? I don’t like this sort of non-specific accusation. I guess skepticism about this sort of thing is my own baggage.
+1
only thing i found on miami sites is he didn’t win enough. and i’m not about to give up my hard earned cash to an internet recruiting site…
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." --John Wooden
Coaching Changes
With all these new contracts being handed out, and one or more new contract yet to come, has anyone considered how this may impact Bruin football well beyond next year? CRN was at least, shall we say, influenced to keep holdover coaches from CTS’ staff.
I am getting excited about next fall and hope we perform great. Then hopefully speculation about CRN’s job security will cease…or maybe the next HC and his core staff are arriving on campus now.
I'm going to write a longer post but, in a nutshell I think
that dg will give crn more than 1 more year — the new excuse will be that he put so many new parts into place that he has to have time to let them all mesh.
I’ll bet that we are telling new candidates that it will be at least a 2 year job and/or we will be offering 2 year contracts.
I think the cya clean sweep was designed to give crn an extra year no matter what happens next season.
sjh
I don't want to agree with you
but that sounds pretty logical, by Morgan Center standards.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
And it will mean that CTSS will be here through 2012 no matter how screwed up 2011 is.
I’ve said before, and this is not Nestor’s reverse mojo speaking, that I would not at all be surprised if we go zero for 2011.
Telling my brother the same thing the other day....
told him the only way CRN will get canned is if they are REALLY bad. My brother argued that he would need 8-9 wins to save his job….I disagreed (and told him he was dillusional if he thought UCLA was going to get to that many wins to begin with considering the QB spot question marks). I think DG will keep him in position (and avoid buyouts) with a 6 win season (dare I say….even 5 with signs of life). Not saying I agree with it but I can totally see it happening.
I should be working right now...
Agree
Early on, I thought the coaching changes looked like a last gasp effort. Now that it’s actually coming down, I’m beginning to assume that this buys at least two more seasons for CRN.
My point being
that they are not going to burn all these new contracts after one season. So it is really most likely extended security for CRN or, at the very least, staff holdovers beyond CRN’s tenure.
Actually, that sounds logical to me
As big of a mess this is, it seems like a waste of money and resources to have an entire line change without giving the staff a little more time.
Granted, I understand that CRN’s been given a lot of time and chances, but even if the University is willing to spend the money, given the nature of recruiting and hiring a staff and so on and so forth, it’s not as simple as just firing him.
There is a limited number of big program quality college coaches, and IMO if we take a risk on an unproven one it’s not that much more of a risk to just keep CRN one more year.
If we have a shot at obtaining a slam dunk choice of a coach then maybe getting rid of CRN would work, but if we just end up with another coach search debacle I think waiting might be the better option.
Regarding information behind a pay site - -
It can be discussed here. The paysite has a temporary hold on it, but does not own it forever.
I don’t mean to be a pedant, but under International News Service v. Associated Press, 248 U.S. 215 (1918), a rather old Supreme Court case, the information can be freely discussed after respecting, for a period of time, the pay site’s tright to an “exclusive.”
I haven't read that case (and don't pretend to know the law)
but if the pay site quotes a particular guy, couldn’t you find out this guy’s name, then go interview him yourself? Or if the paysite says that there is a record of bank fraud or some such, couldn’t you go pull the records? I remember one thing from law school (well, maybe a couple of things) but one thing was that Raymond Chandler tried unsuccessfully to copyright the hard-bitten private eye. The Court said, as I recall, that the name “Phillip Marlowe” could be copyrighted, but not the tough, hard-nosed private eye.
“But the news element-the information respecting current events contained in the literary production-is not the creation of the writer, but is a report of matters that ordinarily are publici juris; it is the history of the day. It is not to be supposed that the framers of the Constitution, when they empowered Congress ‘to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries’ (Const. art. 1, 8, par. 8), intended to confer upon one who might happen to be the first to report a historic event the exclusive right for any period to spread the knowledge of it.”
by BrendonBruin on Feb 14, 2011 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Gasp!
It sounds like the Supremes agreed with me!
True story. When I was in law school, Spiro T. Agnew was the VP. He made it a point to use very flowery language, and often using alliteration. Naturally, we law students thought it would be cool to pack our papers with that sort of thing. My personal favorite, which didn’t even draw a yawn from the professor, was when I said something was a “Faustian fooferaw of philosophical fantasy.” Anyway, in some paper somewhere in first year, I said something was an “Orwellian nightmare of Big Brotherism” and thought that was a pretty good line. Second year, in Con Law, I read a Jiustice Douglas opinion in which he used that exact phrase. I was quite surprised, and equally surprised that I didn’t get hauled up in front of the Honor Court for using Douglas’s phrase without attribution.
I still like “Faustian fooferaw of philosophical fantasy.”
Wow, thanks for the insight
I would imagine that this ruling has been challenged since then? Does anyone know?
Also, is there any sort of definition for what this “period of time” needs to be?
Fascinating stuff to me, maybe I should go to law school after all.
Then there are the days when I wish I had become a vocal performance major
Like now, when we’re getting ready for a big fund-raiser concert which will feature Placido Domingo on stage, and Sherrill Milnes watching. And I’m still scouting around for my starting note. That’s a bit daunting.
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