Delusion Among Bruin Draft Candidates?
by Tydides on May 26, 2011 9:55 AM PDT
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PrintYesterday, VeniceBruin pointed out a rather amusing take from Tyler Honeycutt not only comparing himself to, but asserting things he does better than NBA veteran Tayshaun Prince. Honeycutt may one day stack up to Prince, but for a guy that lollygags defensively more often than not and distributes the ball to the other team like it was Halloween candy, this seems like a rather poorly timed boast.
Sadly, it appears that Honeycutt is not alone in the parade of delusion. UCLA's other draft candidate, Malcolm Lee, was quoted in a Hoopsworld article stating the following:
First of all, I'm not sure Holiday is the guy I'd want to be comparing myself to defensively. In this way, I think Lee is selling himself short. He ought to be trying to pattern his D after Arron Afflalo, who has never taken a defensive possession off in the entire time I've watched him, both in college and in the NBA. But as for being as explosive as NBA All Star Russell Westbrook, a player whose defining characteristic is his explosive quickness, well, I'm just not seeing it.Recent UCLA standouts excelling in the NBA at guard include All-Star Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, Arron Afflalo and Jrue Holiday. The NBA's leading rebounder in 2011, Minnesota power forward Kevin Love, is also on the school's prominent pro alumni list.
Malcolm Lee, a 6'5 point guard, hopes to continue the notable NBA success enjoyed by those players, especially the guards. If confidence was the sole determiner of success at the pro level, Lee's name would fit right in with the aforementioned group.
Lee doesn't shy away from comparisons to Westbrook, Collison and Holiday. In fact he embraces them and is anxious to prove his name belongs in the same sentence.
"I'm kind of actually similar," Lee told HOOPSWORLD on where his game fits compared to recent UCLA pro guards. "I feel like I have a lot of explosiveness like Russell Westbrook and also the defensive side like Jrue Holiday. I kind of see myself similar as them. I really can't see the difference."
I watched Russell Westbrook. I saw him (dump) all over Oregon and Cal players with his ridiculous speed and quickness. Mr. Lee, you are no Russell Westbrook.
Don't get me wrong. I am rooting for Malcolm to succeed. I believe he gave us all he had when he was here and left it out there on the floor, which is more than I can say for the majority of last year's team. He has earned my respect and allegiance as a Bruin, and I will be happy if his self-evaluation turns out to be correct. But right now, whether self-promotion is the name of the game for draftees or not, being that far out of touch with reality just makes them look rather silly.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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This is the draft. It's the nature of the beast.
Everyone makes these sort of “comparisons”. It happens in the NBA, NFL, and MLB. The other day, I read something comparing Bauer to Strasburg. It’s all about maximizing your stock, and one way to do it is to frame the lens you’re viewed through.
I’ve read some articles indicating that Honeycutt and Lee have been playing well. Hopefully Lee can sneak in to the First, though I don’t see it happening.
by AllHailMightyBruins on May 26, 2011 10:50 AM PDT reply actions
The lens works both ways
If the comparison is favorable or at least in the realm of plausibility, it helps draw attention to your strengths. If the comparison comes out of left field, it just makes people focus on how unfavorable the comparison is. Let’s say you know nothing about Lee, but have seen Westbrook, and Lee says his explosiveness is the same. When you see him for the first time, and Lee’s quickness is nowhere near as advertised, how is that a good thing? It draws attention to the negative. These guys need to pick their comparisons wisely.
That's why he should use AA as a comparison
Not Holiday. Jrue was not a great defender in his one year here and doesn’t particularly stand out defensively in the league either, and Lee is far closer to AA defensively than he is to RW offensively.
Lee, AA, and what he may have meant
Agree on AA. I think Lee could argue that he is a better defender than AA and maybe the best defender during CBH’s time. I don’t think CBH called AA the best defensive wing in the country as he did Lee. Lee should be promoting that. He could credibly say or have said he was the best M2M defender CBH has coached. The Holiday thing is really strange, I agree.
That said, Westbrook is a silly comparsion as few players have Westbrooks pure athletic ability. What he might have meant or been trying to say like Westbrook and Holiday he can play 1 and 2, despite his success at UCLA being at the 2. While he can defend the 1 and 2 well, I think Westbrook did better as a PG at UCLA. If he could play 1 and 2 at the next level (as some of the less reputable draft boards are listing him, then he would be like Holiday and Westbrook.
But even then not like Westbrook in athelitc ability. And in reality, I don’t think he can play PG at the NCAA let alone NBA level
DraftExpress has Lee up to 32nd overall
As far as I’m concerned from when he first declared, that’s a sizeable move up the board. Sneaking into the end of the first round is his best case scenario and he looks to be at least positioned to do so if he has some good workouts.
I would agree AA is a more apt comparison
However Lee is trying to be a point guard in the league. His 3pt shooting at the combine was awful (bottom 5 i believe), and he’s not a good fit at the SG position in the NBA. He needs to project as a big PG in order to get any playing time, thus why I think he’s comparing himself to Jrue and Westbrook.
AA, for whatever reason, is still largely unheralded. It’s much more useful to compare himself to an all-star caliber PG and another starting PG.
That said, these comments are far less delusional than TH comparing himself to TP. Just for reference, Malcolm Lee had 15 reps of 185 pounds on the bench press. Honeycutt? Zero. Just goes to show what working hard to improve your game and body does for you.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
That's funny. I'm pretty sure Prince had 0 reps too. Maybe that's how the comparison started.
by AllHailMightyBruins on May 26, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't believe that's accurate.
If I recall correctly, he had a very low number, but not zero.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
by OswegoBruin on May 27, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He did have zero
It is documented here. The initial fallout was that people questioned Durant’s upper body strength and his ability to bang inside with the NBA bigs. No one ever doubted his ability to shoot and score, and no one ever questioned his heart or defensive attitude. The article points out that Durant’s zero on the bench press had no effect on Durant’s position on draft day anyway. However, Honeycutt does not have the overwhelming number of positives that Durant did that allowed scouts/GM’s to overlook the bench press record. In Durant’s case, he was viewed as a growing basketball body with huge positives already, and that his body still needed work. In Honeycutt’s case, zero reps can be seen as further evidence of his apathy and lack of committment to his development, because he only has a lot of unfulfilled potential.
greg in denver, UCLA guy for life - BruinsNation.com
I find it hard to beleive that there's a competent GM out there
That doesn’t know that AA is an excellent defender at the very least. Whether he’s trying to be a PG or not, defense is different since to some extent, you can choose what position to guard, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be the position you play offensively. Hell, they’re even the same height. That’s a better comparison than to an average defensive guard, whether he starts or not.
The comparison to RW is where he really steps in it, because offensively, Lee has none of the positives of RW’s game, and most of the negatives if he plays PG. So basically whatever the reasoning is, even if he wants to compare himself to other PGs because that’s where he projects as, these are still poorly chosen comparisons on his part. I mean seriously, Lee can be described quite a few ways, but I don’t think anyone has ever used the words explosive or quick.
I disagree.
Not that GMs don’t know AA’s an excellent defender, but they’re not interviewing GMs. They were interviewing Lee.
As for the offensive comparison to Westbrook, there are a few valid similarities. Both are excellent in transition, Lee is a good finisher like Westbrook was, and both are athletic, however Westbrook possesses much more explosiveness than Lee does. Lee is quick like Westbrook, but nowhere near as explosive. Both had issues shooting the ball, and Westbrooks shot is still not reliable. Both played shooting guard but project likely as point guards.
That said, Russell is a more compact frame, more muscle, more explosiveness. Russell is a better scorer, and has a higher ceiling as a defender, though I don’t believe he was as advanced as ML when he declared. Russell was a better ballhandler, and had better passing skills than Lee. So there are some comparisons, but some are not as apt. However, to further compare to AA, Lee has none of AA’s shooting, either behind the stripe or midrange, none of Afflalo’s frame, and Afflalo does not have Lee’s quickness. Afflalo is more of a true shooting guard, and Lee is more of a point guard. Afflalo also possesses a greater range of defensive targets than Lee does, as I simply can’t see Lee defending an NBA point guard. So, some valid comparisons on both sides, but neither are really perfect.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
by OswegoBruin on May 26, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
That's confusing the issue
He’s comparing himself offensively to RW, not AA, so AA’s shooting or Lee’s lack of it is not an issue here, and I’m not suggesting that he compare himself to AA’s all around game.
If you say they’re not interviewing GM’s but Lee, then the whole draft posturing excuse as put forth by AllHail is invalid, because the only people whose opinions matter in that scenario are GMs and the scouts they send out to evaluate talent. Even if he’s answering their questions with no ulterior motives, it still shows a lack of self-awareness, unless he’s been holding back something that he hasn’t shown us for the past three seasons.
I also disagree that Lee is particularly quick. Maybe he is compared to you and I, but at his position in college I’d say he’s average in that respect, and slightly below average in NBA terms. I think what makes him a great defender is not quickness, but rather that he’s very smart about anticipation. He sees one move ahead and is able to position himself accordingly. It’s like how some guys are naturally great rebounders because they somehow know where the ball is going to go before it even hits the rim.
You are both right to an extent
I get it now. He choose Holiday and Westbrook because they are UCLA 2s who became 1s in the Pros. You are right Oswego, a 2 must be able to hit the three. Lee can’t, at least right now so he is marketing himself as a 1.
Of course, Tydides point is valid. It is silly for almost anyone to compare themselves in explosiveness to Westbrook. He is more like AA on defense but this is marketing.
You see that 3% and you say he can’t play 2 in the pros. Lee’s undoubtedly been told that, so he wants to be another UCLA 2 that becomes a 1 like Holiday and Westbrook. May not be a bad marketing move as some GM may/will buy it, but as far as reality. . .
Lee would be an offensive black hole at the 2
Sorry to say. His best chance at getting any kind of offensive production in that scenario would be in the Rip Hamilton/Reggie Miller/Ray Allen mode, running like hell through picks and trying to open up a lane for himself to the basket. Of course, both Hamilton and Miller could shoot, so there’s no reason for his defender to have to go over picks. The lack of shooting ability and inability to take a defender off the dribble essentially pigeonholes him as a PG, so I hope he’s been working on ballhandling nonstop in the offseason.
makes you wonder why he didn't fully embrace the chance to play the 1 two years ago
Anyone looking at the tape of his time playing the point won’t be impressed; much less so even that the minutes people could have seen with RW as the backup 1 whenever DC was on the bench.
If he’s picking UCLA comparisons specifically, then it seems he would do better to market himself with “UCLA has produced some great defensive guards, and Coach Howland says I am as good as any of them, and can guard 1-3. On the offensive end I make good cuts into space for layups and midrange jumpshots and can draw fouls; I can also handle backup point duties. I can be a great 6 man, particularly to cool down a hot guard and disrupt the opposing offense.”
He doesn’t have the offensive skill set to be a starter at the 1 OR the 2. His strength is his defensive ability, and it would make more sense to me to market his versatility as a good bench player rather than claiming that he will be a starting point guard in the NBA.
What if he were on a team like the Knicks;
the majority of the half court scoring opportunities go to Carmelo and Amare so ML would mostly be called upon to score in transition (one aspect of his offensive game that’s above average), plus he would provide some much-needed defense. Also, their listed 2 guards are Roger Mason and Billy Walker.
I could also see him getting minutes alongside a high-scoring point on a fast breaking team. Unfortunately, the Warriors seem intent on keeping two of the league’s volume scoring point guards which limits that option.
That's an interesting concept
Most teams suffer offensively if they have one or two guys on the floor that are, um, offensively challenged, but from the Knicks games I saw this season, they would likely suffer less than most. Especially with Melo never seeing a difficult shot he didn’t like.
in which case, why not go at the bottom of the 2nd round
to the Lakers or Heat, neither of whom need a playmaking pg and both of whom are vulnerable to being attacked by quality playmakers at the 1?
by VeniceBruin on May 26, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Lee is going to have a tough time in the draft and NBA, wish him the best but reality isn't look too good here.
Comparing himself to Westbrook is really stretching it…. Westbrook was/is a pure beast with his speed, he makes top NBA defenders look slow. Goodluck Lee.
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