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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

2011 Bruin Football Macro: Focus On "The UCLA Culture," Not Rick Neuheisel

Head coach Rick Neuheisel simply must succeed as the UCLA head football coach. (Photo by Stephen Dunn/Getty Images)

Let's begin with the conclusion:

Rick Neuheisel must succeed as our football coach.

If you accept that basic premise, than whatever standards of success anyone might unilaterally set become quite beside the point because this type of measurable obscures the reality of UCLA football in 2011. And that reality is that Rick Neuheisel's failure would be our failure -- representing a cataclysmic implosion of a once proud college football franchise whose wait for a Rose Bowl win is roughly a quarter century.

Setting certain goals is not uncommon in these parts. In past seasons, we've analyzed the circumstances surrounding the program as the seasons commenced and decided what would be an acceptable season, eight wins or bowl eligible, a win over the Trojans or a win in a bowl game. During the Dorrell era, setting the baseline minimum of acceptance for any given campaign made sense. We never believed in Dorrell and so we held him to a set of standards that his teams would either meet and prove us wrong (and, truly, we would have gladly admitted we were wrong if it meant having a program we could be proud of) or fail to meet, prove us right, and speed along the transition to the next coach, one that would return us to long past glory. But if Neuheisel fails to meet whatever standards we were to come up with this year, well ... quite frankly, I'm not sure what the reaction should be, because I believe that firing him gets us nowhere.

 Why do I feel that way?

 There are several reasons.

First, I have almost zero confidence that Dan Guerrero would hire a great football coach to replace Neuheisel.

I realize that there is an argument to be made against me here. I realize that if left to his own devices, he might have hired Mike Riley over Dorrell and while Riley might not be Knute Rockne, he was clearly the better choice there. I also realize he considered Al Golden and John Harbaugh when he was replacing Dorrell and they both sure seem like good coaches now. So, it is possible Guerrero could identify the right person and make the right hire. But I have no confidence in him; furthermore I'm not sure any AD deserves to hire a third football coach in their first 10 years on the job unless his first two choices did so well they went on to the pros or something like that. Put another way I'm not sure any AD should be able to fire and hire three head football coaches in a 10 year span.

 Secondly, UCLA football desperately needs some continuity.

Just for fun, try to figure out how many times Bruin football had the same head coach, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator trio for at least three season in the years since we won our last the Rose Bowl. Just try to name all the coordinators we've had over the years. Sure, you'll get Norm Chow and DeWayne Walker, you surely know Mike Johnson and Jim Tresey - but would you come up with Phil Snow? Larry Kerr? Nick Aliotti? Steve Axman?

If we only win five games this year and Guerrero replaced Neuheisel, we're looking at another turnover in HC and likely the coordinators, too. Neither of our current coordinators even have DeWayne Walker's cache, so what would be the odds that our next HC keeps them around.

Third, win or lose, I'm not sure Neuheisel is the problem

I think it's larger than him. I think there is a cultural problem.

Star-divide

The paradox of the UCLA athletic department is that it's created a culture that allows all of its teams to thrive and compete for national titles except one: the football team. Since Eric Ball ran for four touchdowns in a win over Iowa in the Rose Bowl on January 1, 1986, this team has competed for a national title only twice, once in the Troy Aikman era and once in the Cade McNown era. And given those two quarterbacks, it's quite possible that the team competed for Number One not because the program achieved some jump in status, but because it was blessed with two of the best players ever to wear the Blue and Gold.

You may ask why I'm so focused on our last Rose Bowl win.

For one thing, winning the Rose Bowl is the real goal for any UCLA team. A national title would be amazing, but everything has to break right for that. You can have a perfect season and not win the national title. But winning the Rose Bowl means you won your league then won your bowl game and if we did that every once in a while, no one - and I mean no one - would dare complain we couldn't win the really big one.

There's another reason.

That reason pertains to the aforementioned culture.

The '86 Rose Bowl win capped, with all due respect to the '54 national title team, the greatest run in UCLA football history. For you old timers, at least concede it's the greatest run in the modern era of college football (with that era defined as the years after the NCAA imposed scholarship limits.) That Rose Bowl win was the team's third in four years, after beating Illinois the year before and Michigan three years hence. In between was a victory over Miami in the Fiesta Bowl. Head Coach Terry Donahue's teams ultimately won seven straight bowl games. The '87-'88/Aikman Bruins won 20 games in two years. Simply put, the Bruins were a player on the college football scene in the 80s. (I can't help but wonder what would have happened had Aikman not broken his leg as an Oklahoma freshman, lost his starting job to a wishbone QB, and then asked Barry Switzer to see if he could use a pro set quarterback. Let's put it this way: Aikman was the first pick in the NFL draft and is in the Hall of Fame. Brendan McCracken isn't.)

Despite the fact that the program has, and there is no way to say it any other way, gotten progressively worse ever since, a season here and there proving to be the exciting exception to the rule. But I can't help but wonder to what extent the shadow of the Donahue glory days still overshadow the program and whether or not that shadow has overshadowed what came since - like lawn turning brown at the base of a once great oak.

Donahue's successor was his own offensive coordinator, Bob Toledo. Toledo's successor was a Donahue receiver (who got his start in coaching as a graduate assistant under TD), Karl Dorrell. Dorrell's successor is a Donahue quarterback (and hero of one of those Rose Bowl wins) Rick Neuheisel. In the background, is Bob Field, husband of the great gymnastics coach Valerie Kondos Field, once a TD defensive coordinator and now an athletic administrator said to have Dan Guerrero's ear on matters concerning football. My point is, the football program still operates as a linear extension of the Donahue years, seeking to recapture the three Rose Bowls in four years greatness.

This is not some accident and there are several reasons for it. On one hand, there is this belief that UCLA "knows what it's doing" and therefore just needs to keep doing it ... it's bad luck/injuries/whatever that is keeping us from winning the conference. On another, it's actually an acknowledgement that the UCLA way of doing things is somehow "unique" and therefore only a head coach with UCLA ties can handle the job. This last might be true, sadly, though our opinion of the "UCLA way of doing things" and the school's is likely different.

There is plenty of literature on the value of corporate culture. Peruse enough of those books and you'll find companies like General Electric, Johnson & Johnson and Starbucks as examples of successful corporate cultures - though they are all different corporate cultures. Companies with successful corporate cultures often have trouble with succession. Starbucks is a classic example, where Howard Schultz established a culture of success, then saw the company falter when he stepped away, leading to his return. He's since said (I believe, I'm doing this from recollection) that Starbucks would hire his next successor from within, to ensure continuity in the corporate culture.

I wonder if the culture at UCLA is working in reverse. The school has a football program that's not winning the way it should, but it insists on a continuation of the culture.

So, why aren't I suggesting that Neuheisel be fired? Why aren't I suggesting that we distance ourselves from the past and hire a Mike Leach or some coach who will do things vastly differently? It's because at UCLA, the head football coach doesn't determine the culture, the athletic director and the chancellor and other administrators do - and those creating the culture have failed to acknowledge an evolving college football landscape, while trying to duplicate a success that must read like entries in a history book to the current crop of players. (Seriously, Kevin Prince knowing that Rick Neusheisel set passing records in the Rose Bowl is like you finding our your dad won first prize in his high school science fair. I mean it's great, but it has nothing to do with today.)

UCLA's culture is many things and many of those are great things, like the Coach Wooden philosophies that permeate the halls, gyms, pools and fields. But it's also the culture that re-ups with Adidas when Under Armour wants in, reputedly for more money and despite the fact that recruits reputedly want nothing to do with Adidas. It's also a culture that's created for itself an academic no-man's land, a place where it won't accept players who meet the NCAA minimum standards that practically every other school uses as a guide and it can't compete with Stanford for the truly academically gifted players. This is a place where Cal and Oregon feast on players we can't get in and the Cardinal gets the kids with straight As. Everything else aside, this is a place where very few quality offensive linemen seem to dwell.

The academic thing has been rehashed many times, so I won't do it here. All I want to say, is that if we are we where we are because we must be where we are then the athletic department better be putting forth maximum effort in the area of academic support. I apologize for being vague, but I have reason to have my doubts about this. I have reasons to believe that, like with everything else, the belief here is that "UCLA knows what it's doing and isn't going to change" - but this belies the fact that Cal has virtually the same academics we do but somehow manages to accept players with lower qualifications and still keeps them eligible.

Maybe the greatest failure of the UCLA football culture is the inability to cope with the evolving landscape. When Terry Donahue was winning Rose Bowls, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, and Stanford were frequently doormats. The league in those days was USC, UCLA and sometimes Washington. (I don't want to give the impression that those Donahue teams weren't talented because they were. The Rose Bowl winning teams had numerous top players and the talent on the '87 and '88 Aikman teams were the best in the country ... sigh!) But for some reason those other schools don't want to acknowledge UCLA's "rightful place at the top of the conference." No, they've evolved, improved over time, sought out the best coaches, built or are building the best facilities and basically acknowledged that winning in football is an athletic department priority over, above and separate from winning in every other sport.

Which brings me all the way around to Neuheisel. He is of the past and a continuation of the culture. But Neuheisel is also a coach who spent time in Boulder and Seattle, not to mention a stint in the pros. I believe that deep down inside, Rick Neuheisel sees and feels what's wrong just like we do and that he's working to change things from the inside.

And to do that he must win and he must be given the chance to win.

We must hope he does.

Rick Neuheisel must ultimately succeed because his failure would represent a bottoming out of the program. If he goes, we are really back to Square One. We'd become an expansion team. We'd sink from irrelevant to obscure. We just can't start all over again.

 Again.

For that reason, we can't set tangible standards this year. There are too many variables, too many unknowns and as a result too great a chance Neuheisel and the team fail to meet them. And then what? We bring in a new coach? We give him five more years?

My plan is to hope for lots of wins, but short of that, look for comfort in the little things. Will we play with more cohesion? Will our play calling improve? Will we go for touchdowns instead of settling for field goals? Will our defense play with aggression and keep the opponent guessing with different looks? Will the team play better at the end of the season than at the beginning? Will we avoid any blowout losses? Will we meet Coach Wooden's definition of success, even if it isn't reflected in the win column?

Putting aside whatever reservations one had about the hiring of Rick Neuheisel, the simple truth now is that he represents the programs best chance for long term success.  

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Well said.

I admire your optimism, but this is over. RLB 2/5/11

by BetterDeadThanRed on Jul 28, 2011 7:28 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree it is a culture thing

It is the same culture thing that sets the best years of Donohue as the most that UCLA could ever achieve. While I understand that there are those who bemoan Donohue as a coach who did the least with the most talent, at least he was able to recruit that talent.

While there was a time when I had higher aspirations for UCLA football, I have been beaten down. A dominant football dynasty is just not in the cards for us Bruin fans. I covet other people’s Ferraris and Maseratis, but after Dorrell’s Yugo I’m ready to ride in Neuheisel’s Honda for this journey. I’m ready to concede that if Neuheisel could achieve the best of what Donohue did, then I would be content. Anything more, I would only set myself up for a let down.

by bluegold on Jul 28, 2011 7:51 AM PDT reply actions  

My very first car was a Prelude

I loved that car and had it for 12 years. I still miss it.

But in Westwood/Santa Monica/Palisades, it was not the fanciest car out there.

greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com

by gbruin on Jul 29, 2011 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mine was a VW Rabbit

The upholstery on the roof was loose but held in by the interior light. It was called the Green Kasbah. It stalled when I hit puddles.

In college, I had a 1981 Toyota Celica…with 330,000 miles on it. And no paint on the hood or roof. Stylin’.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jul 29, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't put the miles on it

I just inherited it after it went past 300,000…and it would have kept going if I hadn’t forgotten to put some oil in the engine…

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jul 29, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's sad

That we’ve been disappointed year after year in the past decade. Like everyone here, I just REALLY hope Neuheisel can turn this thing around.

by bruinfan94 on Jul 28, 2011 8:14 AM PDT reply actions  

I have no confidence

That DG, flush with millions in fresh cash to play with, would make a big hire (Leach, Tressel, Rodriguez – whether we want one of these guys or not) even if he did fire Neu. That’s lame…

by Fludrick on Jul 28, 2011 8:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Might as well stick with Neu

I believe that Guerrero is as useless as tits on a boar. I wouldn’t trust that guy to order my meal, let alone hire a good football coach. He has proven to be a failure at that endeavor.

Frankly, the discussion shouldn’t be who we will get to replace Neu. It should be who we will get to replace Guerrero. Hire the correct guy for that job first then let him assess the football program and determine the issues.

by beanandcheeseburrito on Jul 28, 2011 8:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Reiteration

In my heart, I believe the improvement comes when the Chancellor is on the carpet to produce a good football program, realizes the importance of one, and sets the tone and framework for a good program (didn’t say great, but good as in the theme here). If the Chancellor were held to a successful football standard (and BB too) program (s), the AD would have a lot more support where he needs it. This is my pipedream……

Mensgym

by Mensgym on Jul 28, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

It Began with...

I trace the origin of this debacle all the way to back to ONE game. Can you guess which one? It started the downward spiral that we have never recovered from. We went from #1 to 0 seemingly over night. It was the rescheduling of the Miami game where it was hurricaned out earlier in the season, In hindsight, we should have just cancelled it and made excuses, but the AD wanted the $. Also hurricane is a great metaphor for what happened. I will never forget it, and is, for me, the saddest day in Bruin FB lore. We were winning and on the way to the Title Game with Tenn for all the marbles. In the 4th Q, Nick Alioti’s D gave up 17 points (!) in (I think) 14 min. We went on to choke & lose, and be knocked out of the National Champ game.

Toledo was never the same, and fans wanted him gone. Alioti too. Now, I can’t believe how much BETTER he was than than the hires AD made. If BT was the 1st shot, KD was the killer hit that finished the job on the bear. Riley should have been the HC, but they didn’t let the AD do his job. Meddling with TD’s influence to be NICE.and pol correct.

That lost 10 years allowed SC to get huge, so we lost the recruiting advantage we once had. And so we come to year 4 of RN. I don’t expect much from him, so I won’t be disappointed. He will do better. But sadly, I don’t think we will get back to the place where Toledo/Alioti lost the greatest opp UCLA ever had to join the ranks of the FB legends. We were poised to climb to the highest peak of the college FB world, but it was lost because of a hurricane.

Offenses win games, but defenses win championships.

by 1970 on Jul 28, 2011 8:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Your recollection is not accurate

Fans didn’t want Toledo gone after 12/5/1998. In fact we supported him. Toledo gave us a taste of what UCLA football can be about. As alums we soured on Toledo following 2001 when a Top-5 UCLA team collapsed down the stretch, starting with a loss at Stanford.

That was the game Toledo took a very cavalier approach and it showed by fielding a team that was out of focus and ill prepared. Moreover, Paus and Foster scandals broke and the team collapsed against Southern Cal. The team continued to have off-field issues and then following the blowout loss against Southern Cal the next year, that is when we turned against Toledo.

It is completely inaccurate to say alums soured on Toledo after that Miami game. That is just not true.

by Nestor on Jul 28, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

That 2001 team was special.

They got to #1 in BCS just prior to the Stanford ambush and ensuing collapse. That truly was the beginning of the downward spiral that Coach Neu has been trying to pull us out of.

by AllHailMightyBruins on Jul 28, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Toledo issue

I believe the administration issue with Toledo about this time was the he had “lost control” of the team. That has proven to be the kiss of death at UCLA, and other schools, when the football players start acting out their impulses and demonstrate a lack of discipline……

Mensgym

by Mensgym on Jul 28, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll never forget his quote after the game

Something like “They have lost something today that they might never get back”. That is not something the head coach of a top-tier college should ever say, especially with half a season left to play. I knew right then that the players and coaching staff had checked out for the season.

Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.

by bruin8uclap on Jul 28, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the handicap placards and suspected mob ties were factors too

IMNSHO Bob Toledo was fired because he lost ‘institutional control’ over his player off field. Remember the handicapped placards scandal? Remember that after the heart-breaking loss to Miami it was revealed that some of our players had been seen hanging out with some sleaze bag who had mob ties? The FBI investigated our team for ‘point shaving’ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/news/1999/03/11/ucla_investigation/> – we were cleared but even being investigated was humiliating

Toledo’s lack of control paved the way for a coach with no head coaching experience – but who was a Boy Scout. Frankly, I don’t think Dorrell was hired to win he was hired to clean up a program with a tarnished reputation. And he did that. Dorrell did purge trouble makers, enforced discipline and brought back some of the integrity we associate with UCLA sports.

But Karl Dorrell just wasn’t a head coach – he didn’t have the experience. So the program slid further under his administration. I think that part of his aversion to recruiting top talent was that he put character above all else (he was hired to do so). So when Dorrell left, he left the cupboards bare.

by KnudsenRockne on Jul 28, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oops. Last line

The difference between UCLA and USC is this: We instituted our own sanctions on our team.

by KnudsenRockne on Jul 28, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol at: KD = sanctions.

greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com

by gbruin on Jul 29, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

I guess maybe I was projecting my own souring on him after that. I saw it as a harbinger of things to come, like a bad omen. I loved his offensive mojo we’ve not seen in a long time. He played to win. Maybe with the new OC, We will see more of that.

by 1970 on Jul 28, 2011 8:53 AM PDT reply actions  

It's hard to say

how good we would have been if JP Losman had stuck with his commitment too. That really messed up Toledo’s plans.

If the alleged mob ties were true, could you envision some players on defense trying to keep the game closer in the 4th quarter and instead have it go out of control? It’s kind of surreal to think about.

Surely, that was the most bitter day of my life as a sports fan. I didn’t watch any college football games the next couple of years, I was too disgusted.

But I will say this, for those who are superstitious: this is year 13 after that season…our last cursed year, or the year the curse expires?…

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jul 28, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mob ties.

Wouldn’t be shocked if some form of point shaving did occur that day…. Happened before, will happen again.

by Bruin'96 on Jul 28, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Excellent write up

What really frightens me is Neu being let go, getting hired by a school that has an administration and AD that cares about football and fully supports it, and just kicking butt.

For the current admin we have Neu is about as good as it is going to get. But the AD is much more problematic when it comes to UCLA football than the coach is.

by silverlakebruin on Jul 28, 2011 9:05 AM PDT reply actions  

For many reasons

I just can’t help but root for CRN. I rooted for KD too, but this feels different.

And I keep wondering, did DG hire CRN because he agreed to take Chow and Walker? Did he pass on Golden and Harbaugh because they wouldn’t do so, or did they walk away because they refused to do so? If that’s the case, it’s another major fail.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jul 28, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's due in large part

to CRN being far more ambitious than CKD. To me, Dorrell seemed like nothing more than a gardener… he wasn’t trying to create anything new, he was just there to trim the bushes and pull the weeds. Rick, to me, seems like an entrepreneur spending his last dime opening a chain of stores. Now we have to see if anyone’s going to shop there.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 28, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree on rooting for CRN

The man loves UCLA – he has called this his dream job. I doubt that there is anyone else would put in as much blood, sweat, toil and tears. He has proven that he knows how to win and he really knows how to recruit.

He just needs a fair chance at it.

by KnudsenRockne on Jul 28, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great perspective

I like the point you brought up about continuity with not only the head coaches but all the assistants. It made me think about what that means from a player perspective. When coaching staff is having so much turnover, it makes it almost impossible to create a strong team culture and team identity. Playing football is about a lot more than just x’s and o’s, and when the culture from up top isn’t creating success, it makes it hard for the team on the field to find it.

by kevdude on Jul 28, 2011 9:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Agreed

Our so-called AD would not hire a good replacement for CRN so lets hope Rick can turn it around. Hopefully, Prince stays uninjured and we can win at least eight games but I don’t see.here

by john4justice on Jul 28, 2011 10:23 AM PDT reply actions  

At this point, it would be hard to hire a better coach than CRN

The mis-management of the athletic dept is a big deterrent to talented coaches coming to UCLA right now. The AD has pissed off fans and students with this Pauley debacle. He has driven out one of our most talented, up-and-coming coaches by his negligence. Frankly, only a true Bruin or a glutton for punishment would take the job.

This gets back to Achilles point: It’s the culture

by KnudsenRockne on Jul 28, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

+1

greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com

by gbruin on Jul 29, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

With the two coordinator hires..

..especially on offense, CRN has delegated more control than he has in the past. He is still a top notch recruiter, an eloquent herald of the program, and has surrounded himself with a solid staff. That said, what would we get out of hiring a new head coach besides chaos in the program in the short term?

I think this years’ success stems heavily on the success of Joe Tresey and Mike Johnson, and what they can get our boys to do.

Nice post Achilles.

by ArchiBruin on Jul 28, 2011 10:39 AM PDT reply actions  

I think he's delegated some

but he’s also taken a great amount of responsibility on himself. Rick’s going to be calling the majority of plays this year, I believe, and he’s taken QB coaching on himself. That’s a lot to do plus head coaching.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Post! Can we dig deeper?

I applaud the current tone on BN with regard to both basketball and football — the implementation of Coach’s definition of success rather than the use of fixed, objective standards.

In many ways, I see this apparent shift as recognition of a position BN has staked out, almost exclusively — it is the culture that breeds failure, not the coaches. And, that culture and tone are set at the very top with the chancellor and implemented by his henchman, the AD.

Over the last several months, their has been a leitmotif — that there has been overt interference and control over coaching decisions, including the hiring of assistants, exercised by the administration.

For example, the story of the imposition of Walker and Chow as a condition of the job has been told many times. Can we substantiate this?

Can we put flesh on the bones that the administration has interfered, in other ways, with “football” decisions?

CRN seemed quite relieved to be able to hire “his” coaches for this “new” staff. (But, Seto? Really?) Is there a back story here, too?

All of us have always wanted CRN to succeed. But, at the end of last season, it seemed that “win X games and beat sc or else” posts predominated. (The same could be said for basketball.)

My sense is that the change in tone amongst us fans is, in part, in recognition that our coaches cannot be held solely accountable because they have not been given the power that accompanies sole responsibility.

If that is true, it would be great to support them by starting to expose what the law calls “dead hand control”.

In my heart, I believe the real problem is the chancellor and the AD and that we need to expose and put heat on them. Some of you seem to have somewhat sourced information to prove the case of their interference. Any chance it can be developed into stories?

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Your questions

have been answered rather substantially throughout the last few years and months. If you are asking for solid sources, I don’t think we will be able to get direct quotes from anyone to back up the theories. But there have been enough whispers and unspoken truths to create a framework for the argument.

The one story that still boggles my mind is the attempt to hire Seto. I simply do not understand where that came from.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I chalk up the Seto thing to political maneuvering by CRN

I have nothing to back this up (other than the word of three wealthy and influential donors ;) but that whole episode smacked of calling someone’s bluff. I mean at that point in Rick’s career – with all the turmoil and everything… he said he was going to hire Rocky Seto?

He’s either an idiot or a chess-player

by KnudsenRockne on Jul 28, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

the backlash against the potential Seto hiring

seems to be part of the problem. Either you let CRN hire who he wants and let him be accountable for the success and failure of the program, or you can impose hirings on him that he doesn’t want to make (allegedly: Chow, Walker) and then not hold him accountable when those things don’t pan out. I didn’t think Seto was qualified, but if CRN thought it was the right hire I was willing to let him win or lose with the guys around him he wanted around him.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

-1

I’m not allowing Rick to hire the progeny of not only our bitter rival, but one of the most scandal-plagued, disgustingly-run programs since I was born. He can have his pick of coaches, as long as they don’t worship the ground that snake walks on.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

the hyperbole here just makes the point

‘as long as they don’t worship the ground that snake walks on’

I, for one, have no idea whether Seto is some awful guy who deliberately cheats to get ahead etc etc and I doubt you know either. CRN allegedly wanted to hire him – has presumably met him, spoken with him, got the measure of the man with his own eyes and ears. If a CRN hire sucks as a coach or brings nefarious behavior, then CRN should then be held accountable for that. Let him manage the program, and then kick him to the curb if he fails to do so successfully.

On the one hand we argue that we want to bring in hungry, up-and-coming, outside-the-box assistant coaches who can energize the program and take it to new heights; and then we slam CRN for trying to make a non-traditional hire as DC. Maybe Seto is the one good guy in a undoubtedly scummy program; maybe he’s a talented guy who hasn’t yet had the experience to be on the coaching radar for top programs outside of LA. Or maybe he’s a total asshole. Either way, I would rather give CRN latitude to manage the program the way he wants to do so in the long-term interests of the football team, rather than doing what any group of alumni – even exceptionally well-informed alumni – want him to do.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1 GOOD POINTS

Refusing to consider a hire because he has $C connections isn’t much different than only considering hires because they have UCLA connections. Either you get the best people you can or you are not really striving for excellence.

Whether or not Seto was the best available is hard to gauge – we do not know what restrictions were imposed on CRN (and I believe he picked Seto knowing that his inexperience and SC ties would incite rebellion among the UCLA fans to get DG to drop restrictions – of course, I could be wrong. It’s happened once or twice before ;)

by KnudsenRockne on Jul 28, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Context is everyting

It was not just “sc ties”. It was the tie to a very corrupt and sanctioned regime.

I would not have hired Seto had he been as close to Tressel as he was to Cheety.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you

and even besides the connections, Seto was highly unqualified for the job.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 28, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

There Has To Be A Back Story Here

Some day, after a very successful CRN decides to retire after many years of service to his alma mater, I hope someone asks him “WTF were you thinking with the Seto offer?”

It’s fun to speculate. Seto had a picture of CRN and the very attractive goat — the picture that the brick guy used to force CBH to give him playing time.

Or, it was an “Up yours” statement to DG for blocking the hire of Shannon — an attempt to put pressure on DG to give CRN more leeway in hiring.

Or, Seto may have worn the same blue suit that CTS wore when capturing the job.

Whatever the reason, there has to be more to the story than we know.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

unfortunately, we don't pay enough

to attract highly qualified well regarded coordinators – unless they’re being paid severance money by NFL teams.

We can go after DCs at minor schools or position coaches at major schools. And, if a minor-school DC or major school position coach is a hot commodity, we likely get out-bid.

UCLA football is like Moneyball – we need to find underpriced assets to compete at the coaching level, and/or do things differently from other schools. A sad fact that is part of the cultural problem with the athletic department. The hiring of CRN himself was in this vein – picking up a guy with some prior baggage whom no other major school wanted as their coach, meaning he was likely underpriced.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're in agreement

but we hired Tresey, who is both more qualified and unaffiliated with U$C or Pete Carroll, so I don’t see how that is not the better option.

I don’t care if we hire Trogans. We should just hire Trogans who aren’t connected to that @$$hat.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 28, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

silver lining to that "job offer"

was getting to pull the rug out from under Seto’s feet after Seto had already announced to his friends he’d gotten the job — a public announcement best left for the head coach, not the underling. That was the first of what I believe would have been several Seto mistakes in connection to our program.

by palafox on Jul 28, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Methods of calling someone's bluff

number 27:

Bart [low voice] Drop it! Or I swear I’ll blow this (guy’s) head all over this town!
Bart: [high-pitched voice] Oh, lo’dy, lo’d, he’s desp’it! Do what he sayyyy, do what he sayyyy!

by Bruinut on Jul 29, 2011 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice reference (and subsequent edit)

Isn’t someone going to help that poor man??

Oh baby, you are so talented. And they are so dumb.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 29, 2011 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Culture Change

To generate pressure for a culture change, the story must get beyond BN.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

agree
“For example, the story of the imposition of Walker and Chow as a condition of the job has been told many times. Can we substantiate this?”

I’d also like to know this, in particular about Chow. I know some of you who post frequently have inside sources, so I don’t mean to doubt. But while I can see Walker forced on Neuheisel, I just can’t see why the AD would insist on Chow.

At the time, I viewed the Chow hire as almost a publicity stunt. Neuheisel wanted to make a splash — I think he’s said as much — and Chow not only had the football credentials, but was still a name very fresh in the minds of many of the LA-area recruits, and came with the added bonus that the hire could be used as an unstated jab at usc. Additionally, I seem to recall Neuheisel talking about how he and Walker were actively recruiting Chow, something he wouldn’t have needed to do if Chow was already in the bag. And if the AD was forcing Chow on Neuheisel, then Chow must certainly have already been in the bag.

As I said, I have no connections to anyone remotely close to “in the know” so some of you probably know better, but Chow always seemed more like Neuheisel’s “mistake” hire (in that he may have promised Chow more control than he really wanted to cede, but then wanted to honor that promise despite the consequences) not a forced hire.

by palafox on Jul 28, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

You certainly have a point

Walker was definitely forced on CRN “because of the recruits”.

At the time though, the Chow hire was a coup. CRN was able to get him because he had the severance from the Titans. It was a brilliant move, but with the wrong guy.

On the other hand, since Chow was interviewed for the head coach position, I could very well imagine that the AD was highly impressed with him and told CRN to “find a way to bring him on board”.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jul 29, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great Post!

I tend to think it’s the culture that CRN is fighting and until the people in the administration “get it” there will always be a struggle to get UCLA where it should be in the college football world – at the elite level.

Eerie how it was our win over my alma mater, Iowa, our last Rose Bowl victory.

FWIW, I tend to agree with 1970 on the point that we probably should have decided to scuttle that cancelled game with Miami and rolled the dice and taken our chances with 10 wins. Not our fault that the weather did what it did.

Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!

by Minnesota Bruinfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Great post

One quibble: Those of us who were in the Orange Bowl 13 years ago will never ever forget Aliotti.

by bruinM on Jul 28, 2011 11:06 AM PDT reply actions  

Respectful Question and Basketball comparsion

UCLA went through something similar post Wooden and Wooden was a lot more successful than TD obviously. All the coaches had ties to Wooden/UCLA until Larry Brown. Larry Brown took UCLA to the finals; better than any other coach with Wooden ties at UCLA. Harrick came in (He had UCLA ties, he was an assistant coach but not under Wooden) and UCLA won a national championship. With zero UCLA ties, CBH has one runner up and three final fours.

I think the culture problem in basketball was arguably worse as both Farmer and Hazzard were spectacularly unqualified to be Head Coaches at UCLA but we wanted UCLA\Wooden people.

And trust me after the hiring of Hazzard and Farmer, no one had any reason for faith in the UCLA AD to hire someone good.

But that brings me to my point. The three best post Wooden basketball coach’s at UCLA Harrick, Brown and CBH, all had no Wooden and (with the exeption of Harrick briefly) no UCLA connections. Wouldn’t it better to go outside the TD/UCLA family for a new coach? If DG was forced to hire someone with zero UCLA connections it might erase many of the cultural problems.

Of course, I want CRN to succeed this year and this question to be moot.

by DCBruins on Jul 28, 2011 11:56 AM PDT reply actions  

It's Not the Family Tie that Is Bad

it’s who in the family you choose to hire.

I think Denny Crum would have been a strong replacement for Coach. He was qualified. Farmer and Hazzard were not.

CRN was independently qualified. CTS was not.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

totally agree

the original poster’s main two points are
1) the culture of the program is flawed from the Chancellor and AD on down
2) we need continuity so can’t consider getting rid of CRN despite the fact he is steeped in that culture

It would seem logical that a person from outside might have a better chance of challenging and changing some of the culture, than someone who knows ‘the UCLA way’ and is resigned or subscribed to it.

The closing statement

the simple truth now is that he represents the programs best chance for long term success

doesn’t seem like a simple truth at all. It is a simple truth that he represents the program’s best chance for short-term success (this year), and perhaps medium-term success (next year), as coaching changes do cause some immediate disruption. But if there is a better coach out there who we could hire and would stay with us, it may be worth short-term disruption to produce long-term success. I don’t know that there is such a person – if we had previously hired a Harbaugh, for example, we would have lost them to the NFL by now.

Arguments for continuity could have been made in favor of not dismissing CTS, and were made by the administration as a reason for keeping Walker as DC under CRN, and then for promoting Bullough from within rather than going after a top DC. I’m not buying the idea that continuity should trump other factors, as continuity is part of what puts us in this mess in the first place. If the culture of UCLA football is the problem with UCLA football, why would we stress continuity and the necessary perpetuation of that culture?

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I should add

that I think there is a lot of good sense in the original post, and I am only laying out here the few places of disagreement, not the number of places of agreement with the valuable perspective.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess ...

the unstated hope is that if RN ever starts to really win games, recruiting would follow (he recruits well when we aren’t winning, he’d do even better if we were — or at least that’s the argument) and the program would steadily improve and achieve some sort of long term success.

BTW — It’s fine to disagree on BN. It’s what makes it a cool place to discuss the issues.

by Achilles on Jul 28, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

good point

which is that recruiting really is the lifeblood of sustained success, and CRN has a clear strength in that area; to follow off a previous point, I also think he is someone who would not look to parlay the job into another college or NFL job if he had success (which is an undoubted benefit of hiring someone from within the family). I think that is actually his biggest similarity with Howland – they are both in their dream jobs, and truly invested in the long-term success of the program such that they would be willing to stick around to build real dynasties.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Leaving for the NFL isn't a good reason to not hire a coach,

In fact, I would argue, you almost want that kind of coach. If he’s leaving for the NFL, it’s because he has achieved great success (ala Harbaugh). That means that he had taken a down program (which Stanford was and we still are) and set it on its feet. IF that were UCLA, our university being our university, we have enough cache to bring in another coach who would like to continue building on what Harbaugh had established. There is no loosing there. Our problem is, we are in such a deep hole, that it almost seems that we will never get out. If we were able to dig ourselves out, we would undoubtedly have the upper \hand in staying out, with or without the guy who was the driving force in getting us out. Look at Florida. Look at LSU. They seem to be doing just fine after their great coaches left. Its easier to keep a winning program winning. So someone, get us winning already!

formerly Westwood78

by PhoenixBruin on Jul 28, 2011 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

it is a good reason

if one of the pillars of an argument is the need for consistency.

And why would you expect a great coach to follow a Harbaugh at UCLA when that hasn’t happened at Stanford? If anything, a lot of coaches seem to NOT want to follow on from someone who was wildly successful, because they perceive themselves to then be in a no-win situation regardless of their level of success.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

because Stanford has no football tradition,

so one might easily see ‘Furds success the past few years as belonging to Harbaugh alone, and not the University. So going there, even if they have an Andrew Luck and an established team would continue to be an uphill battle (Luck will only be there for this year). Conversely, we’ve won before and will win again. In fact, it almost seems as if we have to work hard at not winning (an area in which we seem to be excelling at the current moment). In addition to that, we are UCLA. Location, location, location! Beautiful campus (and yes, I mean that in more than one way) to woo the recruits. I could keep going on, but we all know why UCLA is so much better of a place to be which would be readily apparent to any future “Harbaugh” replacement and the recruits that he brings in.

formerly Westwood78

by PhoenixBruin on Jul 30, 2011 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

In the Furd v UCLA comparison

Location, Campus and other ‘Attractions’ are probably about even.
We’ve lost some recruits to Stanford…

Stanford has had a football tradition if you ask your grandparents ;)

by KnudsenRockne on Aug 1, 2011 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

The point I made is that RN needs to be given every chance to succeed, therefore let’s not set tangible goals he might miss. If he missed them, we’d be forced to advocate for his removal and replacement.

Due to the reasons I outlined, RN must succeed.

However, if RN were incapable of succeeding, then his replacement should come from outside the UCLA family. This was my feeling when Dorrell was hired and when RN was hired — pick someone without UCLA connections.

For the record, you could argue that the four best post-Wooden coaches were Harrick, Brown, Howland and Gene Bartow (his immediate successor).

The other difference, of course, is that attempting to create continuity with Coach Wooden is different than continuity with Terry Donahue, unless one believes they were equally successful. The true heir to John Wooden was Denny Crum, who J.D. Morgan passed on for reasons not clear to me. Crum won two titles at Louisville and would have extended Coach’s legacy with even more titles, IMO.

by Achilles on Jul 28, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think in order for recruiting to get back on track

we need two things.

1) We need to win.
2) DG needs to come out in support of Neu for at least next year.

They don’t need to happen in that order, but the best way to scare a kid away from a program is the line, “the coach won’t be there next year, who knows who you’ll be playing for!”. Unless DG does this, that line will be (super) effective against us for the forseeable future.

"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden

by OswegoBruin on Jul 28, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Little Doubt CRN Gets 2 Years Unless the Wheels Fall Off

How else would he have hired all those new coaches?

DG has made statements that seem to give CRN a couple of years.

If the wheels fall off, even if DG says, today, that CRN is good for 2, he might not be.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good Catch on Bartow and Crum

He also got to the final four.

Crum was too big on his own to come. They could have kept trying (as UNC did with Williams, remember Williams refused the first time or two UNC asked) but it would be a heavy lift and knowing how cheap UCLA was, difficult.

by DCBruins on Jul 28, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone who was there at the time ...

says Crum would have come if asked,

He had only been in Louisville a short time when Coach retired.

I don’t know for sure, but that’s how the stories go. I wasn’t around then.

by Achilles on Jul 28, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crum would have come

and there was very strong support for him.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not According to Crum

Remember we beat Louisville the game before Wooden’s last. He was very close to winning it all on “on his own.”

According to the book, They Shoot Coaches, Don’t They, right after Wooden announced his retirement Crum called a press conference:

“At that time, I didn’t want to leave because we hadn’t accomplished what I wanted to. I wanted to win a national championship there. Now we had been in two Final Fours, got beaten both times by UCLA, but we easily could have won the last one . . .

I didn’t want people thinking I was gonna leave. I called a press conference and announced that I had no intention of going to UCLA, I was staying in Louisville until I accomplished there what I wanted to accomplish.

At that point, nobody had offered me the job. I didn’t want them thinking I was even considering it."

by DCBruins on Jul 28, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe, Maybe Not

Easy to say “I won’t go” when you know you won’t be asked.

There was very strong support for him. And, his name was in play — with the fans. I have no idea what Morgan was thinking.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crum could not have been more emphatic but the timeline

There was strong support including the most important fan, Wooden himself, thought Crum was the right choice.

He would not have come right after Wooden retired. It was a little like Roy WIlliams and Kansas even more so.

However, he came close post Bartow. That time UCLA allegedly offered him $33,000, chump change even then. He turned it down.

by DCBruins on Jul 28, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

JD Morgan passed on Crum because

according to various stories, Crum was living with his girlfriend at the time — a very anti-Wooden thing to do.

by bluegold on Jul 28, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bartow was Wooden like

in his morals and view on the world and Crum was not.

by DCBruins on Jul 28, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

And, he was a good coach.

Cunningham was also more like Coach in many ways.

Perhaps, the biggest mistake was in not hiring Cunningham as AD instead of Guerrero.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jul 28, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Post

One of the best and most thought provoking in a long time.

Concur entirely with KnudsenRockne’s posts. I also concur with the thinking that the culture issue starts and ends with the Chancellor. His lack of recognition of the importance of building a lasting football dynasty is beyond me. I would think he would be bright enough to see what UCLA’s football team could contribute to the reputation of the university if only it had his total commitment and support. When I played our Chancellor at the time used to be seen regularly on the sidelines cheering like crazy. It was infectious even for the players on the field.

On the other hand, what I believe we need to do is throw all our support to CRN. He is truly one died in the wool Bruin Blue and Gold all the way dude. He is a fierce competitor, has changed the culture within as he has been able to finally achieve some semblance of depth at nearly every position.

I for one think we are in for a very exciting up and coming season and would not at all be surprised if we go 10-2, nor I would I be disappointed if we finish as bad as 7-5. To me I have a pretty strong hunch our offense is going to be solid and put it to most opponents. Our defense, could be even more exciting.

To me it is entirely up to the players on the field to maintain the intensity and strive for a tempo matching that of the Ducks. If our players are as well conditioned as they should be, there is no reason they cannot match or surpass the Duck’s tempo and come fall, the Bruins can kick ass.

I call on the players who happen to read this Post, commit yourselves to absolute excellence in all that you do to prepare yourselves to come into fall practice in top condition, strong as all get out and be totally committed to winning the southern division and then the conference championship. Let the chips fall where they may but give it your all, all season long. Never let up.

I have always said you can’t get to Hawaii on vacation if you didn’t first make up your mind that is where you want to go. No goal can be achieved if you don’t first determine what it is you want to achieve.

Good luck to CRN, his staff and the players. May the players stay injury free and play with RECKLESS ABANDON. We loyal Bruin fans expect BIG things from this CRN’s 4th team. The cupboard is no longer bare, so prove to the world you have what it takes to be champions.

'CaptainJack65'
Jack Metcalf

by captainjack65 on Jul 28, 2011 3:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I think you may have missed a key point of the post

if you are placing tangible targets, implying that less than 7-5 would be disappointing, and saying we expect BIG things from this team.

by VeniceBruin on Jul 28, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me clarify

I will greatly disappointed with less than 7 wins this year excluding a bowl victory. I am certainly not speaking for the rest of you. Thanks for your comment.

'CaptainJack65'
Jack Metcalf

by captainjack65 on Jul 29, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

CRN must be held accountable to keep pressure on DG and the Chancellor

Giving CRN what amounts to a free pass this year does not solve the UCLA football culture problem; it succumbs to it. So CRN must be held accountable or DG and the Chancellor are off the hook completely. In fact, if CRN can’t be held responsible for his program why should he be the coach at all?

That does not mean the judgment should be based on an arbitrary number of games, but certainly the team must start winning and playing up to its potential. Face it. The last three years our record has been abysmal by any standard whether it be the number of games won or the “Wooden” one.

I understand the frustration, believe me. All of us fans want CRN to succeed. He bleeds Blue and Gold, but so did KD and he was justifiably fired with a significantly better record.

Fortunately, I believe CRN has finally made two great hires in Mike Johnson and Jim Tresey. I expect a much improved team this year because of the focus, motivation and better coaching techniques that they bring to the table. I also believe, after the debacle of the hiring process this off-season, that CRN has been hamstrung by DG and the Chancellor from the beginning. But those excuses are not enough anymore, not in CRN’s fourth year.

I for one will be sick if CRN is fired, even though, frankly, I would not have kept him a fourth year, if only because it looks like he is finally being given more freedom (the proverbial rope to hang himself?) and I would hate to lose our two new Coordinators after only one year. I really think they are both special, but they would most likely be gone with the wind.

Let’s hope this whole discussion is academic starting with our first game against Houston. I think this team will have a monster defense and a more than adequate offense if our QB can simply manage the game and throw the ball accurately ten yards down the field. After all, Norm “Ride the Broken Horse” Chow is gone for good. I say we win 7 with a manager-only QB and 9 or more if it clicks for KP or RB like it did for Cade his junior year.

I know it sounds like I’m dreaming, but it has happened plenty at other PAC 12 schools recently. Why not us for once?

by uclahy on Jul 29, 2011 12:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Does Dan G

really get credit for considering Harbaugh and Golden? I thought there was a firm who handled the candidate search. Seems like they’re the one’s responsible for finding those guys before they blew up…Dan G is responsible for not moving on either one before they commanded huge $$.

by King J77 on Jul 29, 2011 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

Being a UCLA fan is not like being a shareholder in a company

We cannot just sell our stock and buy into another team (any BNer who is capable of doing that ain’t welcome at my table :) – but we won’t go broke if we have to wait another year for ‘success’.

Stockholders get itchy to fire CEO’s because failure costs them … CEO’s get canned if they don’t make enough profits each quarter. This means execs of publicly traded companies cannot afford to lay down a solid foundation and invest in the far future… their time horizon is measured in months. They’re always after short term success. And just look at our economy.

BN’ers can afford to be patient and evaluate if Coach Rick is building a foundation for future success – no one will go bankrupt if UCLA goes 4-8 this season (if you do, it’s your own damn fault for betting). If CRN can’t build the team, we replace him with someone who can. But we must be patient: it would be great to be able to brag on Jan 1st 2012, but as long as our team is building we will get to a Jan 1st game … unless if we play musical coaches.

by KnudsenRockne on Aug 1, 2011 5:22 PM PDT reply actions  

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