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The Football School / Basketball School Matrix: Where is UCLA?

HT to the guys at BC Interruption for leading us to this post.

We have discussed at length whether UCLA is a football or basketball school.  Most us know the UCLA football history so there is no need to rehash what we have already demonstrated, which is that despite all the basketball championships, UCLA has a rich (though not necessarily consistent) history of success in football.  So any time someone from the (east coast) school of journalism calls UCLA a basketball school, we have to roll our eyes and debunk that myth.

That being said, there are different ways of looking at the issue:

Reputation:  what is the tradition in each program?  The problem with this is, obviously, it tells us nothing about the current status of the school.  It's a subjective measure, but the first word that comes to mind when you say "Notre Dame" is football.

Winning Percentage:  this is a more objective measure but it could be skewed by the school's history, one way or the other.

Championships:  another objective measure, but far too drastic in my opinion as it would neglect too many great programs that don't necessarily win championships.  Perhaps including conference championships would make this better.

The post at Basketball Prospectus examines yet another measure

Star-divide

This is what the author is doing for his analysis:

I obtained the last six years' worth of season attendance figures for every school with a football and basketball program competing in the ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10, and SEC. For each season a capacity percentage was calculated for each school's football and basketball teams.  I then averaged all of the seasons together to arrive at a six-year "capacity used" average for both sports.

The result is the following matrix:

Footballvsbasketballmatrix_medium

The results are pretty much as you would suspect, with a few surprises.  We can discuss all of those, but as with anything the focus here is on UCLA.

Firstly, well, we all know about the implications of playing in the Rose Bowl.  The author's assumption is as follows:

Programs design arenas and stadia according to realistic assessments of popular demand.

He qualifies that, knowing that some teams play in NFL venues...but that would actually help UCLA in this matrix, as most NFL venues are smaller than the Rose Bowl.  75% attendance at the Rose Bowl means roughly 68,000 people.  97% attendance at the Wake Forest stadium means 30,500 people.  So clearly, this is not a perfect measure, but it works for most schools.  UCLA happens to fall in those few exceptions.   It would be nice to have this all the time, but nevertheless, given the sad sorry state of UCLA football in the last 6 years, this is pretty good. 

What is damning however is the attendance for basketball.  The last 6 years include the three runs to the Final Four.  And even with those, we couldn't reach 75% attendance at Pauley?  That's pathetic and it can't just be explained away by the performance of the last 3 years.  Our team deserves better than this.

I expect UCLA to be somewhere near Stanford on this chart, 90%+ attendance at Pauley, 80% attendance at the Rose Bowl.

Anyway, a cool way of looking at an issue that brings out passion in many fans.  Combining all the elements would probably provide the right picture, but in the end, it's no one's business to tell another school who they are.  Go cheer for what you love!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Playing in the Rose Bowl obviously detracts from these results. I was a bit surprised by UCLA’s hoops attendance, though I’d imagine the rest of the Pac-10 hasn’t helped matters much the past few years … Oregon and Stanford have been pretty terrible last few years. Oregon State is always terrible. Cal hoops has been down, etc. The league as a whole has been pretty down in hoops.

We’ll just have to fix things when UCLA officially announces its move to the #SBN12Pack

by Brian Favat on Aug 17, 2011 6:18 PM PDT reply actions  

I dismiss this analysis out of hand

This quote demonstrates irredeemable pseudo-intellectualism:

Programs design arenas and stadia according to realistic assessments of popular demand.

Either say “arenas and stadiums” or “arenae and stadia” – but don’t use one Latin plural and one English plural. BTW: It’s kinda douchey to use “stadia” but this is ROTFLMAO funny!

by KnudsenRockne on Aug 17, 2011 7:35 PM PDT reply actions  

LOL

I was going to touch on that but thought that would make me look douchey!

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Aug 17, 2011 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

The only thing more douchey than using a Latin plural is correcting the misuse of a Latin plural ;)

by KnudsenRockne on Aug 18, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

sorry, let me clarify

I love tasser’s posts and I misread KR’s response. I though KR said that the only thing more douchey than using a Latin plural is misusing a Latin plural. Please carry on, Tasser!

by truebluebruin on Aug 18, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, pretty sure

you can use the plural “stadiums.” Hey, look at that! The spell-check didn’t complain. Maybe I have the lowbrow version.

EGO TROIORUM MALLEUS SUM

by Bruins102NCAA on Aug 17, 2011 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

But we're making Pauley Pavilion larger

because we’re smart like that. Yay renovation!

Two roads diverged in a wood and I – I tweeted my followers to ask which I should take

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Aug 17, 2011 8:44 PM PDT reply actions  

It'd be interesting to see

A chart comparing overall attendance mapped against size of the student body.

by Magnusblitz on Aug 17, 2011 9:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, the measurement is all off...% is no good in this case

It is absolutely true that stadiums and arena’s are designed for how many people are expected…but unlike the tiny school-only arena’s across much of the county, both Pauley and the Rose Bowl frequently host other events, as well as a lot of post-season sports. Our arena’s are, therefore, oversized for understandable reasons.

% of seats filled is a terrible way to measure this. I bet 68,000 football average is pretty good nationwide. And the basketball % get hurt by NC play over the X-mas break when like 4,000 people show up to watch games…raw total of number of people watching is the fairest way to do it. And the simplest. Idiotae….

by selby4000 on Aug 18, 2011 6:25 AM PDT reply actions  

+1

Capacities aren’t a good normalization: UCLA didn’t build the Rose Bowl and Stanford rebuilt their Stadium reducing the number of seats.

Besides percentage of seats filled, they should consider local competition for butts in seats. There’s a helluva lot more to do in LA on a Saturday than there is in Tucson… even taking into account populations (18M & 0.5M respectively) there’s more than 36 times as much to do in LA as there is in Tucson.

by KnudsenRockne on Aug 18, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Factor missing.......

  Were does student attendence factor into all of this? Ir seems to me that we have a hugh problem with student attendence at both basketball and football games. I was a season ticket holder to football games for twenty years, during that time I noticed a lack of student attendence.
   We play a third of our season before classes even start and being 35 miles away from campus puts a crimp in student attendence.
   I don’t know what has caused a lack of attendence at basketball games. We play on campus so thay shouldn’t be a factor. Even during the lean years, we had students camping out for seats. We just seem to have lost the UCLA is a basketball school moniker.

by Twothphry on Aug 18, 2011 8:52 AM PDT reply actions  

Student seats at Pauley are really crappy.

The floor seats on the sideline are great, of course, but there’s about 500 of them. The rest of the student seats are in the rafters.

by Seth Chandler on Aug 18, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

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