[Updated] Followup Thoughts on UCLA’s QB Competition …
by Nestor on Aug 24, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
in Football
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PrintOver at BruinReportOnline.com Tracy Pierson has posted a great article about the ongoing QB competition. Tracy has the following thoughts on Rick Neuheisel's decision making process (the article is not behind subscription firewall at the time this post is being published):
We said earlier in the week that, if Prince had a good week, more than likely Neuheisel would go with him. Neuheisel has confidence in Prince in so many aspects of the offense, but we think the coach needed to see it this week - the week before game prep - to make himself feel good about naming Prince. So far, on Monday and Tuesday, Prince has accomplished that. He'll have to continue with that today and Thursday, and in the team's closed scrimmage at the Rose Bowl on Friday. If he does, we're pretty confident Neuheisel will name Prince the starter.
The way the reps are going in practice - with Prince getting the bulk with the 1s -- that certainly seems like a very strong indication.
But, as we said earlier in this piece, the one last factor that the coaches don't have as a piece of evidence in their decision is how Prince and Brehaut will do in the games. If you go by past history, Prince has under-performed a bit, seemingly not making that transition from practice to a real game very effectively. Brehaut, on the other hand, as we've said in the past, is a gamer. He seems to rise to the challenge of the game, actually performed better in games last season than in practice, and has that kind of in-game swagger that is needed, particulary for a quarterback. It wouldn't be far-fetched to foresee Prince being named the starter against Houston, but if Brehaut gets an opportunity it will be interesting to see if that gamer element might ultimately be the deciding factor in who is the #1 quarterback for the season.
I get the sense that many are still having anxiety over this decision. I still think it's not really worth getting all that worked up over because of the points Tracy made above.
I think no matter who is anointed the starter after this week, he will be on a short leash. We have laid out solid arguments on behalf of both QBs here on BN. While huge majority (64%!) of this community including yours truly may wish for Brehaut to be starter, I think Neuheisel will have more than reasonable justifications to go with Prince, if he continues to put together good performances at Spaulding this week. There will also be a closed scrimmage on Friday at the Rose Bowl, which should give Neuheisel and coaches more data to go over.
Whoever gets the start against Houston will probably have to produce results right away in his first two or three series. If he cannot get it done, Neuheisel will not hesitate to go with the other guy. In many ways, I think this approach will be beneficial because Neuheisel will no longer be shackled by the approach of the previous offensive coordinator who came from the school of thought of picking one QB and then sticking with him.
While I have never been a fan of platoon system, there have been instances where programs have had success using multiple QBs at least to start the season, before settling on a starter based on in-game performances. Urban Meyer did it with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow. Lloyd Carr did it with Drew Henson and Tom Brady. Steve Spurrier didn't hesitate to platoon his QBs (Jesse Palmer and Dough Johnson) while he was in Florida. Bobby Bowden had his share of success by platooning QBs. I can go on and on. So I don't think it will be end of the world if Neuheisel names Prince the starter but keeps him on a tight leash and bring in Brehaut as soon as he deems it necessary.
I also think the first three games should essentially serve as pre-season competition for this QB competition, which has been a pleasantly intense affair to date. After those three games, the coaches hopefully should have enough information to decide who they can go with during the conference process. So for our part, let's hope all of our QBs stay healthy and we eventually settle into a regular starter based on their elevated performances after the non-conference season is over.
GO BRUINS.
UPDATE (N): I am sure we will have more on this in tomorrow's roundup. Peter Yoon based on this morning's practice comments just blogged Neuheisel's comments about "not ruling out" the idea of using both QBs in our season opener. More interestingly are the comments from our QBs being receptive to it. Here is Brehaut:
Presented with the idea, Brehaut said he would be "all for it" if that's what the coaches wanted to do, adding that they certainly seem to be well-prepared for such a situation.
"We’re switching every three plays right now, both getting equal time with the ones," he said. "It would be pretty much the same thing we do in practice."
And then Prince:
Prince said that if Neuheisel decides to go the alternating direction, that he and Brehaut would "make it work." He added that there would be some advantages to using both quarterbacks on game day, specifically making teams prepare for two different looks.
"In terms of running the ball, I think that I bring a different aspect than Richard does," Prince said.
[HT Bruin Dad and Grad]
Can't help but rooting for both of these guys. GO BRUINS.
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ESPNLA reporting CRN thinking of playing both
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Aug 24, 2011 3:50 PM PDT reply actions
Nestor, nice analysis as always.
I’m hoping for two things this season:
1. CRN calls a less conservative game than Chow.
2. CRN does not yell at the QB (either Bre or Prince) for making a mistake.
Well
I have never really cared much for the concern over “yelling” at QBs. That’s a non-issue IMO that has always been blown up by the usual concern trolls in LA’s tradmed.
+1
Really over used bit to bash UCLA
by Josh Schlichter on Aug 24, 2011 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
really? no yelling?
When I played if you weren’t getting yelled at, you weren’t worth the coaches breath. The fact that you’re getting yelled at means they know you can perform better, something most football players get and welcome. When the yelling stops, the players should start to worry. That’s my opinion on the yelling matter.
Bruin for life!!!!
You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one. - John Wooden
From Coach...
"I never yelled at my players much. That would have been artificial stimulation, which doesn’t last very long. I think it’s like love and passion. Passion won’t last as long as love. When you are dependent on passion, you need more and more of it to make it work. It’s the same with yelling." — John Wooden
by Chicago Bruin on Aug 25, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Also from Coach...
“A Coach is Someone Who Can Give Correction Without Causing Resentment.” John Wooden
by Chicago Bruin on Aug 25, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
We get that
But it is not humanely possible to follow everyone of Coach’s teachings. In this case, football is also a different game than hoops. And as we have discussed numerous times before yelling issue has been blown out of proportion. You can read through previous posts. Don’t see the need to rediscuss a dead issue beaten to death all over again. Thanks.
Forgive me for not participating in those earlier conversations regarding CRN's yelling.
And I realize that teaching football is not the same as other sports or other subjects. I don’t mind yelling at practice or in the lockeroom. Each coach has his or her own way or getting their points across.
But I think this generation of kids are much different than from 10 or 20 years ago and being yelled at in front of a national audience is demeaning to this generation of players and may affect future recruiting.
by Chicago Bruin on Aug 25, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Again the argument doesn't fly
If yelling at a QB mattered in recruiting, Steve Spurrier would never be successful in college football. It’s a moot issue and blown out of proportion by the hacks in the LA Times. I’d suggest you drop it at this point.
I'd be all for it too if I were one of them,
especially Brehaut. If you can get in a game and show what you can do in front of a large audience, it might make a more compelling argument to start on a more full-time basis. Its better than the possible alternative- holding a clipboard.
formerly Westwood78
Not trying to rock the boat but,
I just don’t know how Prince’s knee will endure a full season in the Pistol. I think Prince would be just fine as a 2, and if we are leading by a substantial margin, you can test Prince on a game day.
As long as we are keeping Brehaut prepped
if CRN believes Prince is the better QB, then he should be the starter.
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
KP's knee can hold up if our OL can
And maybe those surgeons actually know a thing or two about repairing soft tissue.
by KnudsenRockne on Aug 25, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Reasons to name a starting QB:
There are multiple reasons why CRN should name a starting QB before the Houston game. They are as follows:
1. The QB that is named won’t be constantly looking over his shoulder, worrying that if he makes a mistake he’s going to get pulled. He’ll be able know that CRN has his back in case he does mess up, allowing him to take chances.
2. Gives the offense a set leader. It is harder for a team to have multiple generals on the offense. It is not often that having two starting QB’s works out. We saw it last year, when CRN wouldn’t hesitate to sub in one QB for another, and most of the time the offense just looked lost. It’s sort of like having CRN and Norm Chow both trying to implement different offensive philosophies at the same time.
3. It will affect the wideouts and tight ends. Different QBs have different release points, put different spin on the ball, and have different “favorite targets”. Switching in and out QBs could make it difficult for the skill position players to get comfortable in this regard.
4. I’m not sure what’s going on in CRN’s head right now, but at least for me him being able to name a starter gives me confidence that he has a plan for the team and is able to evaluate QBs as he should. It’s not like we’re dealing with a Vick-type QB versus an Manning-type QB, Brehaut and Prince both play similar styles of football.
receivers shouldn't care who throws the ball
I don’t buy any of the release point, arc, velocity garbage. Your job is to catch the football, I don’t card if it is thrown by your grandma or punted to you, just catch the dang ball. You have hands, you are a common variable, you are the one in control, just catch the ball.
Other than that, I am not sure that whoever is “named starter” will all of a sudden stop looking over his shoulder. If he messes up he knows that there is not much dropoff, and that he could be demoted. That is true in a close competition, whether one is officially named the starter or not, in my opinion.
I can see how the offense needs a leader and this makes it a little bit confusing in terms of chemistry, but that, hopefully, should not be too much of an issue as both have gotten extensive work with the top unit, and have been in the program for several years. The other guys should have a pretty good grasp on where each is coming from. This is still a legit point, though.
I disagree with this
You perform like you would practice. If you’ve practiced catching the balls thrown by a certain person, you should do the same in a game situation.
"just catch the ball"? wow!
clearly you’ve never taken a snap in a major football program before – or maybe you just slept through intro physics.
when you have to work as a team, not being able to adjust to the tiny variances in the play of different players drastically effects how the team performs – a ‘death by a thousand cuts’ sort of thing. even if it doesn’t lead to a fumbled snap, a different QB pulling the snap a fraction of a second later than the O is used to trickles down to mistimings on handoffs, blocker positioning, misdirection tactics, etc. and that’s just for a run play where the ball doesn’t leave anyone’s hands. now insert the variables associated with actually having the ball not in anyone’s possession while it’s in the air – a slight change in release velocity, angle, rotation, etc. causes huge changes in where the ball ends up and in what position it gets there at.
ideally, you want everyone to be the same, but that’s never going to happen. the best teams know how the intracacies of their teamate’s style of play and play together as one.
to put this another way, the best QBs make their WR better – and vice versa – simply because they know their teamate and can adjust to the intracacies of his game. in order to know your teamate and his game, you’ve gotta do the time. the more time you spend throwing to him, the more of a team you both will become. thus, while splitting times with the ones may not worsen either KP or RB’s timing with the WRs, it certainly is preventing both of them from achieving maximum cohesiveness.
Yeah. People forget that football is a team effort
It isn’t as if the WR’s, RB’s, O-line, & QB’s all operate independently. They have to act together as a group because there are 11 guys (wearing different color jerseys) trying to disrupt them.
Last year, the switch ups in Oline kept them from forming a solid unit… and our QB’s suffered for it. Also last year it seemed that receivers had an easier time catching Bre’s passes than KP’s – just counting the passes which hit them right in the hands.
Now, that all said, running QB platoon in the ‘pre-season’, as N said, could be a good way to pick the best game-day QB. Then when CRN makes his choice he sticks with him.
by KnudsenRockne on Aug 25, 2011 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I mean... based on past experience
He probably wouldn’t be in this situation. He would have had a Senior at QB that was likely to win the Heismen. He also would have had 2 or 3 5* recruits behind that QB waiting for their shot at the Heismen.
If you’re going to troll my posts, I’ll just give you an honest response back. A response I’m sure you don’t want to hear.
You're right about one thing
And only one thing: That it is a response I don’t want to hear. The reason being that it reveals how morally bankrupt you truly are. It saddens me to watch someone who is supposedly affiliated with Coach’s school so shamelessly slobber all over one of the biggest proven cheaters in NCAA history. A cheater who knew exactly how guilty he was and got the hell out of town before the axe fell. How’s that for past experience?
It’s clear that none of Coach’s teachings have sunk into that peabrain of yours, and that’s the real tragedy here.
Anyone who thinks Pete Carroll is an example of coach we should pursue
Do not belong here. Apparently some current UCLA students have been so beaten down by last few years they don’t have a shred of self-respect for our program.
Hey. I'd like to Pursue Pete Carroll ...
with hunting dogs
by KnudsenRockne on Aug 25, 2011 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
He can take his boyfriends
and shove them up his ass. I would never want someone like Barkley or Leinart on my team.
If UCLA ever hired Carroll, I would forever stop donations and stop watching or rooting for the football team.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
c'mon
Barkley’s a good kid and a talented football player. Always known him to be honest and forthright. And if he grew up a Bruin fan and came to UCLA, I’m sure he would’ve represented us with poise and class. Ripping on USC athletics as an institution is all in good fun, but personally attacking good kids simply for playing for your rival is a bit classless. It’s kinda like calling your ex a b*tch after she leaves you, but a sweetheart while she’s with you. The only thing that’s changed is who she’s with.
Absolutely not
and here is why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4VXjyDnYs4
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
and
you wouldn’t have blinked if the roles had been reversed. we were out of position – plain and simple. they took advantage of our mistake. that it was at the tail end of a decided game is what gives the rivalry game so much life. we’ll get our chance, and I’m sure we’ll not hesitate to shove it down ’SC’s throat when we do. hypocrisy is unbecoming.
I'll agree with your last point on hypocrisy
Which is why, if/when we find ourselves in a similar position, I would advocate that we run the ball and kill the clock. No matter how much I want to punish and humiliate those guys, my desire to do the right thing outweighs that. And that’s why I have no problem castigating Carroll and Barkley. They had their chance in that situation, and they showed their true colors. And I would want no part of either.
Also, Petey showed his own hypocrisy in his first year at Seattle when he called a timeout late against the Broncos when he was down by 2 scores (I wrote a fanpost about it) – the same scenario that he used to rub in Neu’s face. They’ve shown their character, and it’s ugly.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
He showed his true colors
with “What’s your deal?”. He hoots and hollers when he does it, but if someone dares ram the ball down his throat, it’s offensive. I hate the guy and his golden boy. I hope we’re in the same situation and humiliate them with good sportsmanship as Greg describes.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
never defended caroll - don't know the guy
just saying barkely is a nice, respectful kid i happen to know. he plays for SUC, and for that our D should properly put him on his back every single play. but, the fact remains that if he played for us (or Notre Dame), most of us would probably find the kid likeable. thus, tasser’s comment about not wanting someone like him on our team is very likely inaccurate.
am i not allowed to point to a likely inaccuracy in someone’s statement? what is this, soviet russia?
He would never play for us
because he is a second generation Trogan.
I’m sorry, but the gleeful celebration he had after their disgusting play at the end of the game shows me a little something about his character.
You say, “if” he were at UCLA, we’d respect him. I’m saying, he’d never have come here because that’s not who he is. He’s been brought up a Trogan.
On a personal level, you may find him likable, and perhaps I might too. But as an athlete, I despise him for what he did.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
you've just dismissed (what I understood as) the entire premise of your statement...
my comment was based on the “if he wanted to play for us” implied in your “I would never want [him]” above. of course you wouldn’t want him if he didn’t want to come here, so i assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you were implying a situation where he grew up a bruin and wanted to play for us.
if you want to talk up Barkley
As a “respectable kid” find another site. A self respecting Bruins wouldn’t resort to such nonsense after what this punk has done against UCLA.
by Nestor on Aug 25, 2011 3:57 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
okay so it's a dead heat
CRN, what are you waiting for? At this point in the game w/10 days to go neither one of these guys has shown, nor will show a deciding edge in their practice or scrimmage play that will set them apart. You’ve seen them both play extensively in real games & scrimmages many, many times. My preference was for Prince but at this point I don’t even care,I just want a decision. This is going to snowball out of control within DAYS and become a full blown “controversy” picked up by every single news outlet and will stygmatize us for the entire season if it is not dealt with immediately! And finally, it doesn’t really matter anyways does it?…someone is going to get hurt…as always…and we will see plenty of both.
This is called "Catastrophizing"
People need to take a deep breath and relax a little. I’m pretty sure that no matter what CRN does, it will not end all life on Earth.
Also, I get the feeling that CRN is more vested in UCLA football than anyone on BN… so he’s probably motivated to do the best he can (OTOH: I may be wrong. He could be the ‘Manchurian Coach’ – he did try to hire Seto – lol).
by KnudsenRockne on Aug 25, 2011 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Using two quarterbacks would make sense going into Houston.
It’s insanely hot and humid, and if both are playing, it might make a difference. Might make sense on the receiving side to have two sets also.
The Idea Is Fine With Me As Well....
I think the reality in today’s college football is that you’d BETTER have two good QBs ready to go so there’s nothing “wrong” with this.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Aug 25, 2011 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I like this
Prince can throw the ball, but his value is his ability to run and be efficient in the pistol offense. Brehaut, as we’ve discussed more, is a gunslinger who can throw the ball around the field a bit better than Kevin.
Going with a two QB look isn’t unheard of: Urban Meyer did it with success with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow. Obviously, Kevin and Richard are no Leak and Tebow, but it’s something that can definitely work.
I thought the indecision on QB was supposed to be due to conflict between Neu and Chow
But it looks like it may be continuing inside Neu’s head. The good news? It’s not really a problem at this early stage. Nothing wrong with being flexible and judging who should play by how they perform under game conditions.
The bad news? None. All that matters is winning, baby. None of us are at the practices. Until there’s a game, anything we say is just speculation.
From reports it seems both QBs are better and so is the whole team. Let’s hope that’s true. Houston is looking for payback. None of us wants that, right?
GO BRUINS!
I'm pretty sure
Prince will get the start. If we’re steamrolling them, he’ll keep playing. And if we’re far ahead, Brehaut will get playing time. If we struggle, Brehaut will come in pretty early.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Maybe CRN has picked his QB already but is keeping it secret
to give us an ‘edge’ against Houston.
Also, if he gets the concern trolls all worked up before the season they could all die from strokes & heart attacks … then the rest of us can enjoy the season.
Just to add
a couple interesting points about a coach yelling at the QB and whether the receivers care who’s throwing them the ball: I was at a Bruin event last night where one of our former QBs spoke and, interestingly enough, he addressed both of these issues. Re: yelling at the QB – he said if a kid can’t take that, he shouldn’t be playing football. How about when 90,000 fans boo you off the field – is that any worse? He said he’s had both happen to him, and while neither is fun, a QB better be man enough to handle situations like this – it’s part of the game. As far as the receivers having a preference as to Prince or Brehaut throwing to them: He’s talked with our receivers about this very question and they evidently feel perfectly comfortable with either/or. Anyway, just an angle from a QB who’s been there, done that, and access to our players to ask these questions!
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