The Morning After, Part 2: San Jose St
by gbruin on Sep 11, 2011 10:11 AM PDT
in Football
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PrintMy very first class and one of my overall favorites at U.C.L.A. was Psych 10 with Dr. Carlos Grijalva. I hope he's still there, as he was a great teacher, and when I later worked a grad student in his lab, I found him to be a really good person, too.
Anyway, one of my favorite concepts from his Psych 10 class was the idea of learned helplessness. It was demonstrated by a classic experiment where a dog was put in a cage with an electrified panel in the floor. A bell would ring, and a few seconds later, the dog was shocked. The dog quickly learned to fear the bell, knowing the painful shock was following. Initially, at the sound of the bell, the dog would get very upset and howl and race frantically around the cage looking for an escape. But with no way to avoid the shock, the dog, over time, would give up efforts to escape, would quit howling, and would finally just lie there and whimper quietly and accept the shock. Learned helplessness.
The amazing finale to this is that after learned helplessness was integrated in the dog, an easy escape route from the cage was provided, yet the dog made no new effort to escape the shock after the bell sounded. I know what should have happened. That dog should have heard the bell and taken the two steps necessary to get out of the cage and avoid the shock. But I learned what happened instead. The bell rang, the dog quietly whimpered, continued to lay still, and two steps from salvation, got shocked. Again.
My fellow Bruins, we are the dog in this story.
With no disrepect to San Jose State (and doesn't that phrase always mean that some form of disrespect is about to follow?), no matter how closely associated our two schools are, there is one thing that should never be closely associated between us. Not on our field. Not in our home opener. Heck, not anywhere, at any time, on this or any other planet. And that thing is the score of a football game at the end of the third quarter.
Yet there we were, starting the fourth tied at 17.
And what did we do? We did what we have learned to do to lessen the shock of our football program. We tuned out of the thread. We berated our coach. We blamed poor effort and poor discipline and poor attendance and poor schemes. And in the end, we comforted ourselves that we are just U.C.L.A. and that this is simply our culture of mediocrity.
It's learned helplessness. It's written on this football team. It was written on Rick Neuheisel's face. And it's written all over the Bruin fanbase. Some examples after the jump...
Last night, I saw one of our DB's hopping up and down and getting in the opposing players' faces and shoving those opponents in the chest - right after his unit just allowed the vaunted Spartan attack to drive the ball up their ass for 88 yards in 8 minutes and 6 points. I know what should have happened. That player should have spent a few series on the sideline being reminded that that sort of effort really works best before the defense surrenders the TD. I knew what would happen instead. That DB was back in on the next series.
I watched a linebacker, who ran himself out of plays all night long - except for the one time we actually did want him to run past another ball carrier - instead hit the ball carrier in the head, right as that ball carrier was stepping out of bounds about 12 yards short of the first down marker. On 4th down. I know what should have happened. Our linebacker should have spent a few series on the sidelines being reminded that giving up a 15 yard penalty when the QB is 12 yards short of the first down is contrary to the ideals of a good defense. I knew what would happen instead. I saw Neuheisel with one of those confused "Huh?" sort of looks, weakly call the player's name, get no response, and then hang his head and walk up the sideline, while that linebacker continued on in the game.
I watched our offense face a 4th and 2 at the Spartans 38 in the first quarter. Bluebland knows what we should have done. We all know what we should have done. We should have taken pride in our program. We should have said that we're better than our opponents and we will prove it. We should have run the ball down their throats on 4th down. Sadly, we all knew exactly what was going to happen instead. The punt landed a few yards deep in the endzone for a touchback. Somewhere, Karl Dorrell is feeling a bit of vindication.
Against logic, learned helplessness persists in an individual or a group for the same reason that any learned behavior does, by continued reinforcement and reward. From a neurobehavioral stanpoint (hey, I was finally a psychobio major), the physical pain of the shock is more tolerable than the emotional pain of failure and disappointment, plus the physical pain of the shock. The dog who lays there and accepts the shock at least avoids the disappointment of another failed attempt to escape his sorry fate. Shakespeare's feelings on love and loss are not borne out by the dogs in Psych 10. If punting is inevitable, why not just lay back and enjoy it?
Learned helplessness becomes part of one's personality. Part of one's own personal culture.
And there it is. Culture.
We write here all the time about the culture of UCLA. and how mediocrity has become accepted. It explains why such a great collection of talent has produced lots of suspensions and lots of penalties and lots of showboating and lots of embarassment, but has produced so little success. And as much as we blame the players, or Neuheisel, or Guerrero or Block, all of whom are unacceptably tolerant of mediocrity, we must also blame ourselves. The U.C.L.A. culture includes this fanbase, and the acceptance of mediocrity has swallowed us as well.
I watched the game tonight with some young post-Cade McNown 20 somethings who appeared somewhat frustrated by how close this game was. But they sure didn't appear to be absolutely seething and mortified and embarassed inside like I was. Maybe it's because I remember when U.C.L.A. won games in dominating fashion against the scrubs of D-1. Our teams were ranked a lot. We beat *$c a lot. We not only went to Rose Bowls, we won them. A lot. My anger tonight tells me that learned helplessness hasn't completely extinguished all my experiences with successful football just yet. But I do wonder if watching these games is worth it sometimes, and I see little hope for escape, so learned helplessness is making some progress. And those who never had this foundation are much further gone than I.
Who on this team or in this program is unaffected by learned helplessness and can be the one lead us out of this culture of mediocrity and help us get up off the floor and beat the crap out of the bell and get out of the cage for good? Until someone steps up and stops reinforcing and rewarding this culture, and gives us real reason to hope and cheer, we are doomed to a continued existence on the electrified plate. Until someone shakes us from our stupor, kicks us in the butt and screams at us to get up because the escape from this cage is just a few steps away and he will lead us there, we are going to continue to lie down and whimper when the bell sounds.
I always though that someone was Neuheisel. From what I saw tonight, I think learned helplessness is swallowing him and much of his team, too.
Or maybe ther were all just looking ahead to Texas.
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you know..
I’m guilty of talking about how crappy UCLA football is, how poor the fans are, and how detached the administration is.. But, I think it’s the molding of the last decade. I can only remember 1 10-2 year.. And that year with all the come from behind wins it often felt like an accident when MJD and Drew Oslen were able to pull those games out. The other day I saw a news bit of CRN talking about how the school needs to really commitment to football in order for his ideas to succeed. I don’t know how uncommitted the school actually is but I do know we haven’t been a ‘football school’ in this century.
Punting on the first drive
was a foreshadow for the rest of the game. Tied in the 4th quarter – against SJS?? Are you kidding me?!?!?
I can only hope that we look back at this game at the end of the season and wonder how this team only beat SJS by 10 points. Unfortunately, right now, it looks like all this team is capable of. I thought being picked 5th in the Pac 12 South would give us some motivation to prove the critics and haters wrong. But, after last nights game, hard to argue with them.
This isn't religion...
I think your assessment of the program applies to many of those within it which was painfully evident last night. The lack of success with the FB program is negatively affecting both the players and the fans. If you are a believer you know how the story ends… in football the outcome isn’t based on faith, but by wins on Saturdays. By looking at the stands, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of faith from the masses. Come on boys, nut up and give us something to be proud of and cheer for.
Brilliant Analysis
Great job G.
You nailed the problem. If anyone should have the memory and spark of success burning in him, it should be CRN (who, if he is not careful will be C?P — Coach Unkown’s Predecessor). He knows the history of this program. However, the coach who brought us the “passion bucket” has not been able to infuse his players in the way he originally did us.
The real problem is an AD who earns $600,000.00 a year and is seemingly not held accountable by a Chancellor who is willing to accept mediocrity in one area of the university while demanding excellence in others.
CRN knows what we have been. Sadly, he cannot get us back there. Guerrero should know who we have been; but I’ve never felt we were his focal point; he wants to be an NCAA power broker or employee; I hope he gets that job soon.
As to Block, there are many fine universities that demand excellence in all phases of the operation. Can you say Stanford? I cannot understand why he would accept an underachieving football program in ways that he would never accept an underachieving English or Physics department. No associate professor would get tenure with a record as weak as CRN’s — no, I’m not saying coaches should be on the tenure track (or take the pay cut that those on the track suffer) — but they should meet the same standard of excellence to which all others at the university are held, including the students.
We do not accept mediocrity in the classroom because we demand that our students get the best possible education and experience possible.
Our athletes are students, too, and football is more than a sport, it is a classroom for life’s lessons. I feel bad for these student/athletes. What are they learning from this staff? Really, what? There are no great breakthroughs without taking risks; yet they are learning to avoid the smallest risks. There are no great successes without focus, drive and discipline.
There is no great joy without passion.
To make matters worse, we bring in some very talented student/athletes and then seem to lose them on the bench. Fauria has a great game last weak and does not show up until later in the game. Carrol, Marvay, Jones? Can you honestly tell me that they were not worthy of any playing time? James gets one carry. We make fun of sc for stockpiling talent and not using it. Are we not doing the same thing?
We started with better, more heavily recruited athletes than either Houston or SJSU. We are bigger on both lines yet we really did not win the battle in the trenches on either side of the line. Our team is more experienced than either of those teams. Talent, size experience — and we play those two games? It is coaching and culture.
So, the question is, how do we learn to step out of the cage? Where is our safety door? How do we go above the Chancellor to effect change? I guess it goes back to the “three wealthy and well connected alums” — the concept that only money talks to the chancellor and we have to withhold it until either he is gone (which I think will take a Regents decision) or he feels the threat and realizes that if he wants our money he has to change the culture. In essence, we have to purchase change. I will not donate one penny to UCLA until the culture changes. Not one penny. I know that it will hurt the very important academic side of the university, but I cannot see any way to bring about change. I can’t find my way out of the cage. Is there a door there?
sjh
by Class of 66 on Sep 11, 2011 9:31 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
just curious
who do you want to see lose carries to accommodate Malcolm Jones? Franklin is our #1 back and Coleman had a great game. Then we spread some other carries around to Smith, Barr, James, all of whom are somewhat different types of athlete from Jones. Or, put another way – what have you seen from Jones on the field that suggests that not giving him carries is a major coaching error? You mention $c – they were pretty effective giving huge carries to their two feature backs with occasional touches for WRs (notwithstanding the vacating of victories).
Not getting Malcolm Jones on the field seems to be a decision we could leave to the coaches who see who is performing in practice. Getting significant touches for your 4th/5th/whatever best run option is a nice luxury in a blow out but hardly a priority in a close game.
by VeniceBruin on Sep 11, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't Make My Point Well
This should have been a game where we could play deep and allow young players touches. That said, Franklin was not effective for much of the first three quarters and he fumbled. We could have used any of the young guys and Coleman for a few plays. The reason we didn’t is that the game was far too close. That doesn’t make the bench any less talented. It means we are not utilizing that talent.
Some say Harkey plays instead of Fauria because of blocking. Actually, Fauria blocked well against Houston.
Is there any reason Carroll didn’t get any rep’s? The best people can say is that he’s in the dog house. I don’t buy that. He had a strong pre-season and the stories I read say he has a new, strong attitude.
I think we all start out trusting our coaches. But, I’m not sure I’m all that trusting after seeing these two games.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Sep 11, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
You made your point just fine.
There are a lot of young players starting and doing great things for teams all around college football. The simple fact that we can never name a starter for the next game shows we have a problem at QB, yet Hundley will never see the field…
"Success is never final, Failure is never fatal. It's Courage that counts" - John Wooden.
Totally agree re: superior athletes
Fauria has a career game and we go to him against SJS once or twice? Jordan James runs the exact same play three times in two games? Embry has one decent punt return but shows NO flash or breakaway ability and yet we don’t even give Carrol or Marvay a chance? Ditto on kickoffs. I realize we don’t know how these kids practice – maybe they can’t catch a punt, maybe they fumble if given the chance in practice. But, I see the definition of insanity being played out week after week – we do the same things and somehow expect different results.
I wonder if SJSU knew that Fauria had a great game last weekend?
Then they may have made it harder for him to repeat his efforts… so Fauria without making as many catches could have contributed to our offense.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I am sure they did
but even Boy Blunder found a way to get the ball into Woods hands even though he had a career day the week before. Fauria may not have the seperation ability or quickness of Woods but I didnt see any 6’8" DB’s covering him.
OK. Yah. I agree with you.
I agree with you – I’d like to have seen Fauria get more touches. I think that he has passion and if he made some big plays (with his size & strength he could bully his way through a DB or two) his passion could have ignited the rest of the team.
We sooooo lacked any fire for this game.
Maybe CRN should hire gbruin as a ‘sports psychologist’
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
And, if SJS can take Fauria out of a game,
what is a Pac 12 defense going to do?
I was thinking that they were using Fauria as a decoy since he was so notable last week
so Bre was going to other receivers while the Spartans were concentrating on F.
But, with his height advantage – you are right… he could catch passes over their heads and then drag defenders for a first down.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Playing Down
Saying that we “play down to the competition” is pretentious. It assumes that we are better than they are, much better, and that we go into the game sure of a win and, therefore, need not try hard.
The truth is that we are the way we play. We are simply 10 points better than SJSU. And, worse than a Houston team that was given a run for its money by North Texas; yes, they beat North Texas by more than they beat us, but Houston did not look like the top 10 team that people here were calling them in order to justify our loss.
I find it silly to think that we play down and are really better than we have been during CRN’s tenure.
If I run a 20 second 100 meter dash, it does not matter if I am running against Usain Bolt or my 90 year old mother. I am slow. I am a 20 second guy.
We are a mediocre team. Let’s not insult our opponents by saying we are playing down.
sjh
We have more highly recruited players.
We have faster players. We have heavier players. We have more athletic players. In that sense, we are “better.”
Unfortunately, we are not well coached. Our defenders can’t tackle and our defensive and offensive coordinators have no idea how to draw up effective game plans.
I’ve repeatedly said I didn’t think Neuheisel has forgotten how to coach. I’m no longer so sure he hasn’t.
by Seth Chandler on Sep 11, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
In the context of the post ...
I think gbruin has offered a plausible explanation to CRN’s perceived coaching failures: he isn’t just up against teaching and training young men to do what he wants them to do (and how he wants them to do it) – he is fighting a culture… and institutional attitude.
Recall the first season that CRN was coaching – our players had a tradition of going over the wall and it infuriated Coach Rick. Also, back in the pre-CRN days, I recall a game in which we were losing and the camera caught our 1st & 2nd QB’s joking around on the sideline. WTF?
When our players do things like that it makes it hard to justify taking time away from the family to attend a game.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you about culture.
It’s a problem.
by Seth Chandler on Sep 12, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes. Donahue looks good in retrospect.
But I was a student in the Donahue era and I remember that we all thought he was mediocre at the time: way too conservative and would only be able to win games if we were more loaded with talent than the other team. He was never going to pull off great upsets. You look at some of the players we had — McNeill, Easley and more — and you really have to wonder why we never contended for a national championship in all the years Donahue coached. Did we even finish in the top five?
I’m starting to think that CRN is too much in the Donahue mold.
by Seth Chandler on Sep 12, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Good points G, Nice write-up
I knew it was to be a long ugly game last night when our defense celebrated on SJSU’s first play from scrimmage, a 3 !/2 yard gain. You dont celebrate after stopping a team who cant run the ball, on a 3+ yard gain. One of the biggest culprits of this inappropriate celebrating is Sheldon Price. Unbelievably, he had his 1st interception of his career in his third year of starting.
Good Analysis
Where I was sitting at the Rose Bowl there was a painful lack of enthusiasm. It did feel like learned helplessness. When Rick came on 4 years ago I was hopeful. I said to my friends that I did not have unrealistic homer expectations for UCLA. I said I just want a team that frequently finishes in the top 20 and go to a BCS Bowl once every 5 years. Now high expectations are a .500 season. We have sunk pretty low.
The hope I felt during Rick’s tenure came on signing day his first couple of years. But that apparently good recruiting has never turned into solid team play.
I thought this was the saddest part (and perhaps most indicative part) of the post:
“I saw Neuheisel with one of those confused “Huh?” sort of looks, weakly call the player’s name, get no response, and then hang his head and walk up the sideline, while that linebacker continued on in the game."
Where is the coach who used to berate his quarterbacks for poor play whether the cameras were on him or not?
Dreaming of Westwood while in permanent exile in Virginia
VABruin, I think maybe the Notre Dame game last week had an effect.
I saw how the media belittled the Notre Dame coach because he was yelling at the players. CRN may have seen that.
Insightful analysis
You clarified what I’ve been thinking for a while (although I’m not learned in the ways of psychology) – I’ve been thinking of it in terms of ‘morale’ and ‘confidence’ but I think you are on the nose.
As I re-read your post, I was thinking of the movie “One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest” about how the system finally beat down McMurphy (the rebel) … like how CRN has lost his passion. And then I thought of the scene when McMurphy tries to pick up that granite fixture and hurl it through a window – but can’t. The rest laugh at his failure and then he says, " But I tried goddammit. At least I did that." – (That scene sets up the ending of the movie but I won’t spoil it for you). Maybe we don’t need a leader to * actually* escape from the cell – maybe we just need a leader who “tries, goddammit!”
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Great Reference to a Great Book
I got goose bumps reading your post because that is such a powerful scene and I think the analogy apt.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Sep 11, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember that scene so well, Rockne
As a matter of fact, every time I watched its DVD version, for some reason I became misty eyed for the fate that befell on the character so aptly played by Nicholson.
My opinion of CRN irked others on BN before. I am not about to repeat what I said then, but the need to give the guy the benefit of doubts, the time to recoup & revamp because of bad chemistry that plagued and wrecked the team in the past, etc, is rapidly wearing thin. I was at the game too and that eerie sense of acceptance bothered me too.
No, UCLA can play better than the learned helplessness described here. Mediocrity can never be the norms measuring the performance of our team nor its coach. For AD Guerrero to think that way, if it is indeed his mindset as we assumed, he is only turning his back and selling out the Bruins spirits he himself epitomizes.
Yah.
I like Rick Neuheisel. I him him to succeed. However, when the system starts beating him it is time for a change – for his sake as well as ours. I look at the man now and instead of feeling pride and inspiration I feel sorrow – where’s that passion? Did UCLA utterly drain Rick’s passion bucket? My God.
He came back to his alma mater – for his dream job – and it has turned into a nightmare and has aged him. I still have some desperate hope he’ll turn it around so I’m not calling for them to fire him… at some point we need someone to beat the culture. Until we have that we’ll never see proud Bruin teams.
Even if UCLA can only have a McMurphy for one season we need someone to break to vicious cycle of learned helplessness & failure… someone to hit ‘reset’ on the program.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Great article Dr. gbruin.
The only main comment I have is I thought the human was smarter than a dog and would act when the environment changed. But are we prisoners of our minds?
Yeah. And WTF is up with Schrodinger's Cat?
I know this has absolutely nothing to do with Football, UCLA or the price of tea in China but I want to take this opportunity to rant about this because it is very near and dear to my heart. It is cruel and/or benign to kill and/or let live some cat trapped in a box … which you cannot even see. How is that for unethical/ethical treatment of animals?
I think the point of the analogy...
is spot-on. What is most disappointing is that I feel worse after last night’s win than after the loss to Houston. I have wanted, and still want, Rick to succeed, but I have lost confidence that will happen. I had my hopes so high for this season, but once again I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football…
by USMCtoUCLA on Sep 11, 2011 10:47 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
RE The Chained Elephants
People have been found to behave just like that. Most self help “gurus” say that if people keep failing, at some point, most just throw in the towel. Not all, but most. People will convince themselves that success is not possible for them. I was there myself many years ago, but I dragged myself up out of it. It is not easy but can be done.
I agree that UCLA may be at a similar place right now with this HC. If it is going to change, it has to start there. Say what you want about Petie, but he did change the consciousness of $C FB for better or for worse. Under him, they knew they could win, and did. Cheated too, and then left. I am not a fan of him by any means, but facts are facts. Even Lame fins the W still.
When did this learned helplessness start?
I suspect it was after the 1998 season. If you look at the W/L’s we started bouncing around a lot after that.
Any other ideas?
FIRE THE VOTERS OF CALIFORNIA!
if the problems pre-date Block and Guerrero, it’s time to take it to the people who voted for the governors who appointed the regents who appointed the chancellors who hired the athletic directors who hired the coaches who recruited the players who struggled to beat San Jose State!!
by VeniceBruin on Sep 11, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
But isn't the voters' parents' fault then?
Why didn’t they raise their kids with values ;)
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
A note to commenters
Editorial lecture on moderators and what to post or what not to post, will not be tolerated. Read the rules of this community again. Thanks.
Enough already
Can we get gbruin to retract his analogy so that we can talk about football. He doesn’t have to say that it was bad, just that it’s a distraction.
by TheUniversityOfTheMasses~Reconize! on Sep 11, 2011 11:07 AM PDT reply actions
No, you can't.
No one here, including myself, espouses animal cruelty. I love my dog like my children. The analogy suggests why a culture of mediocrity began and has propagated, and describes the behavior of many of our football fans, me included. Comparing our frustration and pessimism with PTSD is insulting to those who have experienced real traumas. You are distracted by your activism, which I respect, but which this post is not about. Get over yourself.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
The only distraction here
Has been the people calling it a distraction. The rest of the frontpage obviously has your back on this, and we will not bow to historical or scientific ignorance due to people injecting purely emotional arguments devoid of fact or reason.
I think it may be the ambiguous connotation of 'classic experiment' that may be distracting
and as the discussion went, that type of experiment might not fly by current ethical standards of science; so it is ‘classic’ in the sense of ‘from the past and well known’ rather than in the sense of ‘serving as a standard of excellence’.
If everyone is agreed that animal cruelty is bad and we are not endorsing that type of behavior, perhaps there is no need for the emotional angle on the analogy.
…we will not bow to historical or scientific ignorance due to people injecting purely emotional arguments devoid of fact or reason.
I agree
just wanted to avoid bowing to ‘semantic confusion’, given people seemed to misinterpret gb’s words.
I was intending your first definition of classic, VB
I didn’t imagine that it would be interpreted any other way.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
If only people asked for interpretation BEFORE their emotional response
instead of having an emotional response and then DEMANDING interpretation (with their emotions usually drowning out their ears). Not directed at anyone in particular.
I knew what you meant - in part because of your online persona
but it was imbedded in a positive discussion of a great professor and a favorite concept, so maybe that’s why some people were confused.
Where I think the concept really resonated was towards the end of the game, where SJSU’s QB was struggling, and suddenly our guys looked like they smelled blood and were bursting through the line to get pressure on him. Really seemed like the expectation of good results transformed the way they played.
perhaps 'vintage' was what you meant?
:D
I don’t follow Ucla football enough to comment on the details, but I do think the analogy in the post has a fair bit of value to it.
The celebration thing always is a key for me. When I see the stupid stuff after a decent play by the other team, I know that there are problems coming.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Sep 11, 2011 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Brilliant
What an insightful, coherent, and illuminating piece of writing. Thank you for articulating and putting into perspective the cumulative frustration felt by so many of us.
Throughout my reading, I found myself nodding in total agreement, as you express bewilderment about certain players not being yanked after boneheaded plays, as you point out the humiliating weakness of punting from an opponent’s 38 yard line, as you lament the widespread acceptance of mediocrity up and down the line, as you wonder who and what will provide the spark for us to unlearn our helplessness. I wish I knew.
Brilliant writing, gbruin. Two very big thumbs up.
Spot on!
This post and subsequent comments are as well expressed as any prior posts I have ever read. My only hope is CRN, his staff and all the players read this post and accompanying comments.
Just perhaps someone among them will have a fire lit to his ass and will ignite the greatness that this team potentially has.
The current culture can be overcome with men who have the balls and the courage to say “no more of this b.s.”, it is totally unacceptable, and men who have the strength of character to do something about it and not just voice opposition but to stand tall and actually lead by doing whatever it takes to become a great leader and lead this team out of this complacent “cultural quagmire” for lack of a better way to describe this “losers” attitude.
My hopes were that CRN could motivate the players to action but in retrospect I now see that it is up to the players to make it happen. They have been well conditioned, well taught on the basic fundamentals, now all they need is to play like their ass is on fire and come out this week and the rest of the season as if their lives depend on it. Commit and kick Texas butt for starters.
Go Bruins and keep the faith someone of them is listening to your sage advice.
'CaptainJack65'
Jack Metcalf
by captainjack65 on Sep 11, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
For me the punt on 4th and 2 on our own 38 was the breaking point.
It showed that CRN had become a whipped dog, embracing failure, going with the flow, and hoping the hurt would be over soon.
So, I for one think this post was an excellent one. It coalesced for me all that is wrong with the UCLA football program. And that starts at the top — with Guerrero and CRN.
It’s not going to get any better. CRN is done.
by BrendonBruin on Sep 11, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
The Glad Game
Learned hopelessness (helplessness). In the 1960’s there was a Disney movie called Pollyanna where the title character influenced the entire town to find something to be glad about, something good, in every bad event. I feel like we have grown accustomed to playing the Glad Game ever since we lost to Miami. Every time we have a bad loss (I will include a close win against a team that we theoretically should easily beat included) there is a tendency to find the positive aspects and to convince ourselves that something is getting better. The line is bigger, one player had a breakout game, we ran a play that had some spark…. This excellent post by gbruin is indicative of our unwillingness to play the glad game any longer. We are getting some very solid, if not great players. More importantly, they chose to be Bruins. The recruiting is very much on the upswing. I for one am very supportive of every player that chooses to be a Bruin and then puts on the pads and gives a great effort. It is up to the coaches and administration to create a Championship atmosphere. It is up to the coaches and administration to create a system of developing these young players to stand for excellence, in the classroom, as citizens and as players. Let’s see what happens by the end of the season. Let’s not play the Glad game.
CRN Saw It Coming
Remember earlier in the week he blew up after a practice saying, “I can’t be the only one who cares.” He saw it coming, my friends. Lack of seriousness. Lack of attention to detail. Lack of seeking perfection. Whatever it was, he saw it and he called the team out on it. I think CRN’s passion bucket is still full, but he hasn’t been able to infect the team with it successfully. In the end, that’s his responsibility. I’m hoping he’ll use this game to blast the team and wake it up. I hope he reminds them about that very outburst and tells them what he saw that made him engage in it. (By the way, wouldn’t that qualify as CRN not giving in to learned helplessness?)
That stated, coming into the game I fully expected UCLA to use Coleman liberally to pound SJSU into submission interspersed with Franklin as a change up. In other words establish physical and psychological dominance. I was chagrined that that was not the case. I wonder, gbruin, what that says about the UCLA coaches that they didn’t approach the game that way.
But that outburst didn't work.
They still came out without much fire or passion. And if they have learned to feel helpless will yelling at them make things any better?
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Regardless of whose 'job' it is
I don’t think that this culture will disappear until the players decide to put it away. I think that one gifted ‘rebel’ leader among the players could change this culture better than any coach – and certainly better than any administrator (isn’t ‘inspiring administrator’ an oxymoron?)
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
True, sort of...
It didn’t work, but not because it wasn’t the right thing to do,. I believe it didn’t work because he subsequently downplayed it. Instead he should have let his passion carry over to the interview with the reports. He should have stuck with his anger and disgust. Apologizing for it neutralized it.
Not sure yelling at those feeling helpless will empower them
Also, this generation of kids react differently to negative feedback than previous generations.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Trying to wait until the end of the season
I don’t feel like bashingNeu. We could win thenext three games and perception would change. I will give this team a chance.
I don’t feel like picking Neu apart. It’s more important than that. This team wins 7 games or he is gone.
But this post… I don’t like how Neu blames his players. Yells with crocodile yells. Humiliates his players in public. It seems to be about “Rick” and how hard it is for him. Throwing your players under the bus only results in damaged players. Some coaches yell and get angry and it accomplishes something. Some coaches yell and get angry and things get worse. Sorry to bend my own standard but if CRN “knew” there was a problem with heart and energy it was, it is, HIS job to change that.
Let’s beat Texas
by harry bruin on Sep 11, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know how to react to the "yelling" issue
It has to be seen in the context with CRN’s relationship to his players.
I’m not motivated by being yelled at — but, no one I’m close to or respect yells at me. Perhaps, if someone I cared for did, it would not bother me.
The current edition of Texas Monthly — the football edition — has an article on Gary Patterson, who is a favorite among many here. He yells, and yells, and yells — so much that he has sampled all kinds of throat treatments so that he can recover his voice fast enough to yell again. Yet, his players love him.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Sep 11, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Wooden yelled
All yelling is not the same. I think your point about being yelled at by someone you respect is well taken.
by harry bruin on Sep 11, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Old news, I know, but as long as we're venting
Earlier in the week, I was bothered by CRN’s repudiation of critics of UCLA’s soft, large-cushion defense. He said that the scheme and strategy weren’t at fault. Rather, it was lack of players’ discipline and staying in their zones. Had they done so, we would have been OK, he said.
Many people, including me, were upset about that take. It’s bad, by any slice, to say, essentially, it’s not our (coaches) fault; it’s their (players) fault. Worse, the take is eerily reminiscent of CTS’s takes about the criticisms of his anemic offenses. It’s not the fault of the coaches or the complex but beautiful west coast offense. Rather, it’s the players’ inability to execute. We’ll be all right, if they would just execute better, he would say.
I love Rick Neuheisel’s true-blue passion, but I hate that he has resorted to this weak defense of his weak defense. To borrow from An American President, I hate that he is so obsessed with keeping his job that he is not doing his job. Sharing one of the worst qualities of CTS is not a good thing.
I thought yesterday's game bore out what CRN was saying.
we gave up repeated first downs due to lack of discipline and containment.
If we didn’t do that, and didn’t give up two weak fumbles on the offensive side, we wouldn’t have been entering the 4th quarter tied.
Not really sure what CRN should do when asked about schemes he thinks would work if players did what they are supposed to – clearly he didn’t want to second-guess his new DC publically after a loss, but I understand your view that he shouldn’t throw the players under the bus either.
by VeniceBruin on Sep 11, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Clearly, you're right
Players do make mistakes, and coaches should not be thrown under the bus, either.
But, there is something noble and something right about a head coach who accepts all blame, because in the end, that is where the blame belongs. If, after 3-1/2 years, players are still blowing assignments, that’s on coaching.
Some time ago, I had a contracting job. The manager for whom I worked also managed a dozen full-time employees. This guy was one of those who was never at fault. Whatever the problem was, it was always somebody else to blame.
Well, one day he was regaling me with one tale of woe after another, about past and current employees who let him down. As he was complaining, he shook his head from side to side and wore a “Can you believe it?” expression on his face. Clearly, he wanted sympathy for his string of bad luck.
Perhaps emboldened because I was working as a contractor, I proffered that when you have bad employee after bad employee, that’s not a problem of bad employees. That’s a problem of management.
I was let go the next week.
did observers say
“oh, Bruinut is in the dog house” ?
I hear the whimper bell
You’ve summed it up very nicely, G. Sad and evocative. I know it sounds silly, but I get that shocked dog feeling as soon as the players step on to the field. The UNIFORMS are what rings my horror bell. We used to be dressed in the armor of winners. We used to look sharp. Our duds were admired from coast to coast, and as they say: “clothes make the man” They looked like a serious team.
Now we come out dressed like losers in sterctchy, polyester looking, artficially bright pieces of crap that look like knockoff replicas of unis you’d buy from some 98-cent store. It’s a wonder that the UCLA script is even spelled correctly. The names seem ironed on to the back, sometimes askew. Bellies stick out like at a family reunion BBQ, and distend the barely readable numbers. We can’t even get stripes to go around the shoulder like they have ever since Red Sanders. And when you dress like losers, when your athletic department and your equipment manufacturer care so little about the team that they don’t even bother to dress you properly, it might affect your psyche. Who knows; I know it affects mine. I really can’t stand to look at my favorite team.
It’s funny, I used to snicker at the crazy s—-t they dress Oregon and Maryland in, but at least they had AD’s and uni companies willing to put some thought into a design, instead of letting their kids wear ragged hand-me-downs picked blindly out of the Goodwill pile.
Are the uniforms made of Krytonite?
I would say that the ugly uniforms make for ugly play but, then, there is Oregon.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Sep 11, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree with you more
These uniforms SUCK. They are a disgrace to anyone who has ever played at Ucla. We wore our uniforms with pride. Whomever is responsible should fall on the sword, and lose any and all privileges of having anything to do with Ucla football.
'CaptainJack65'
Jack Metcalf
by captainjack65 on Sep 11, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Miss the old powder blues
What makes a great uniform is being able to recognize the team without seeing a logo. Maybe you still can with our current unis, but the old powder blues are classic. Ironically, we haven’t been very good since we changed the blue.
The powder blues had a purpose.
They were introduced by Red Sanders. Seems it’s hard to distinguish the players’ numbers on powder blue unies, and Red Sanders wanted every legal edge he could get. When he exchanged film with opposing coaches those coaches had a hell of a time discerning who was doing what. That was also one of the beauties of Sanders’ single wing — disguise and deception. And Sanders called the uniforms “powderkeg blue” by the way.
Red Sanders was the somewhat more “jaunty” half of the two greatest coaches who ever led students at UCLA, or anywhere else. Coach, of course, was the other. And they were both here at the same time, and both had picked UCLA as their second choice and were offered their dream jobs after they committed to UCLA. But they both honored their word.
And Red Sanders was a bit of a gambler. On the field and off. What we need is a football coach who sufficiently trusts his own skills, and his own tutelage, that he will have his players take risks — and be rewarded. CRN’s punt decision on 4th and 2 at SJSU’s 38 was something that probably even Terry Donahue and Karl Dorrell would never have done, and it was the last nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned. CRN is like a whipped dog, afraid to take any chances and, in the process, making terrible, terrible decisions.
Bottom line: CRN has lost his nerve. That’s fatal in race car drivers and college football coaches. Time for CRN to take his leave, with dignity, and move to the announcer’s booth.
We need to return to our powderkeg blues and to the serpentine out of the huddle. And to playing the football that Red Sanders taught. — taking chances, trusting our players, and getting the job done
by BrendonBruin on Sep 11, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks
For the story about the powderkeg blues! Enjoyed it. I heard it had something to do with tv, but never heard this detail. All the more reason to keep them. (Not for game film obviously, but for tradition.)
Actually, Dorrell did do exactly that.
I believe it was in a game against *$c when he punted on 4th and 2 inside the 40, in a game which was close at the time. That decision was the final straw for many who were still hoping he would prove to be a successful coach for the Bruins.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
We don't have an NFL open thread ...
so this will have to do.
MoJo is having a very nice day for JAX. The only guy that can tackle him happens to be Akeem Ayers, who is having a great day at linebacker for TN.
CRN looked and sounded drained after the game...
If this season is the last one for CRN, I think the reason will be that he could never establish a clear identity or culture within the football team. He definitely upgraded the talent, but they’re playing like disjointed parts, all trying to go forward, but not working for the common goal. The only game where I saw the team SEEM like they had an identity was during the Texas game last year (and 1b was against Temple).
Groups need identity to understand not only what they’re doing, but why they’re doing it. I wrote a book on African American fraternities and sororities and if you asked me about the identity of each organization, I could explain in less than five words. With UCLA, it’s as if they wanted to be a mini USC with Chow, then a mini Nevada with the pistol, and now, who knows?
CRN didn’t become a bad coach. I still think he’s a good coach. But there is a deep, deep, deep malaise in the program that even mere wins won’t change.
Lawrence Ross
+1
In 09 we had a winning season. Many of us thought UCLA had ‘turned the corner’ – then `10 hits us right between the eyes. A lot of us felt that maybe `10 was an outlier and in `11 we’ll recapture that spirit from `09… well… we’ll see.
But you are right: there is a deep malaise in the program – and until that is addressed most of the effort (by coaches and players) will be wasted.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Imagine if CRN was actually successful here..
Not just the recruits he’d be able to bring in to a winning program, but what he’d be able to do to our culture. This is a guy who loves UCLA for more than just its football program, and even the large segment of the student body who actively try to ignore sports would’ve felt it. This is a guy who cares deeply about his players – during his tenure at Washington when one of his players was hospitalized with a serious injury, he would go to the hospital and cry silently for the kid for weeks, hiding himself from view. This is a guy whose players are loyal to him – with his former star QB Tuiasosopo following him here from Washington just to act as an intern.
If CRN was successful here on the field, I’m sure he would’ve been able to transform our culture in spite of an inactive Athletic Department. And that is what most upsets me about last night. Not how CRN deserves to be fired, or the inevitable 2-3 years of rebuilding that comes after. But how if only we did have a successful football program, he would’ve been the perfect face for UCLA.
by Objection Penguin on Sep 11, 2011 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
That's What Makes It So Difficult
Most of us love CRN, the Bruin evangelist. And, I hate the way this job is aging him and furrowing his brow.
Right now, we are 1:1. We can still reach reasonable goals — even though one goal, the “eye test” has yet to be met in either of our games.
I truly hope we improve and have a successful season. What will happen if we don’t will not be fun or pretty.
sjh
what will be more confusing
is if we scrape 6 wins without consistently meeting the eye test – which seems possible, given the performance of our future so far.
+1
I want very much for CRN to succeed. His success is our success. And, it’s not hard to imagine his being wildly successful at UCLA.
But, as gbruin says so well, his is an enormous job. It’s not just about coaching players and devising strategies. It’s about changing a deep-rooted culture. That’s a tall order for anyone.
What will it take? Beats me. Vince Lombardi? George S. Patton? Mohandas Gandhi? I dunno. Whomever, it appears so far that CRN’s infusion of genuine enthusiasm and pride is not enough.
Most puzzling to me is the lack of discipline. Seeing boneheaded plays and juvenile taunting rewarded with uninterrupted playing time shows a coach not in firm command of the team. You can’t coach intolerance of sloppiness with words alone. You can’t be the only one who cares. You have to be the one who makes sure those who don’t care as much as you get the message.
Who can lead us?
Hundley. The freshman. Who doesn’t know the mediocrity yet.
I Fear
that if he plays he becomes a part of it. We have some very good players who have come in during the last few years and they have not succeeded in elevating the culture.
Let’s save him for next year. It’s unfair to put the burden of the current culture on a freshman.
sjh
Totally agree
To think Hundley would be the difference in the offense is questionable. It is hard enough to succeed as a true freshman on an outstanding team much less one that is 1-1 and does not look like it will be competitive in conference play. Brehaut (and Prince) have hung in there and shown improvement. This is about the only position on our team I don’t think we can afford to experiment with.
I know what you mean, but on the other hand
I’m worried about him soaking in this culture for an entire year before he gets on the field. And while Brehaut and Prince have shown improvement, I think I can see the ceiling. If this freshman is really that good and athletic, let him play. There have been great freshman qb’s, including our last great qb (Cade.) Remember when he came in? He was a total jump start for the team. And we need a jump start badly. Not just from the first two games of this year, but really going back another two years.
It's not just his athleticism and skill
but those are crucial – you cannot lead a team if you are not a great player. The #1 thing about Hundley is heart. You can see it. You saw it when he graduated early to enroll and UCLA and became the biggest UCLA evangelist this side of Ricky Neuheisel… he was recruiting other recruits!
That lad has a spark in him. If they can only keep that spark from going out, then maybe next year he will be the guy who tells the Bruins “We ain’t your Daddy’s Bruins – We’re more like your grand-daddy’s Bruins – so get ready for the next Dynasty.”
And if he can bring it on the field – they will listen to him.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 11, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Grand-Daddy's Bruins
I guess that makes them Fox’s Bruins and mine. I love the phrase. Tommy Prothro’s Bruins.
Fox and I have been wanting that for all of the youngsters — and hoping you will experience what we did.
sjh
I'm on the verge of quiting this site
All of this complaining and firing talk is just so boring.
Maybe we should all become Notre Dame fans so we can suck for even longer. I mean there has to be a better coach out there who can fix our players right?
Or, we could focus on how to be a winning program. Which means we win with the players we do have. We get the very best out of them and recruit like crazy to keep upping the talent level.
That is exactly what CRN is doing and by all means doing it well (recruiting and improving talent).
Too bad our fan base doesn’t have the patience to let him do it.
I really wish today’s morning after would have been this kind of analysis:
Our kicker for the next four years is on and that is hard to overstate how important that is.
The running back corps showed some brilliance. Three players have experience and talent to dominate. Only top tier teams have that kind of depth, talent, and experience.
The O-line looked pretty good, maybe great. How many sacks were there? How many rushing yards did we gain? Yeah we need to play Texas to see if that holds up but remember that new players were brought in. Again we have depth and experience so our season won’t be thrown off with one injury. Top tier teams build experience at every position.
The receivers got the ball. Does anyone really think we can beat Texas with constant throws to Fauria? We need to show threats at every position. Make them respect us deep and on the outside.
Brehaut did show leadership. Number one he didn’t get injured. Number two he didn’t throw an INT. Number three he won. Are we really going to knock him when he wins. Like you won but you need to win better. You need to make the other 21 players not make mistakes. He is showing his courage, running ability, and decision making. If we give the ball back to Prince we stunt that growth and keep the inconsistency going. Like anyone in Bruin Nation needs more inconsistency.
The defense looked good. We created a few turnovers and that is huge, that is more than huge. That means players were communicating and in the right zone. It means that QB’s need to be more careful, maybe even be scared.
Do not forget that Houston was not scared. No player was even close to an INT.
The D-line was looking hungry. Marsh was getting up into everyone’s business.
Please, please, please do not become the site that bashes for bashes sake. We need to build and improve to start winning games, not fire and start over (and fire and start over).
Remember Notre Dame…
two quick thoughts
1) you have only been posting a few weeks, but you should have already seen enough reprimands to know that complaining about what a frontpager chooses to post is a foolhardy strategy
2) You say CRN is recruiting and improving talent; I think a lot of people doubt the second part, and, as much-touted recruits fail to make much of an impact, are starting to doubt the first part a little bit as well.
THanks for the reply
I did not know the rules about frontpagers.
Should I have not posted this at all? Is there a better place to post it?
@Nestor – FWIW, this is not a GBCW comment. I posted a recommendation and my own thoughts. My hope was to focus on exactly what gbruin brought up, culture.
So many of the 80 comments before mine were extremely negative and bashing the team. With many talking about giving up for the season.
That was where I was directing my comment, not at the moderator. The tone of the post was honest and well written. It encouraged me to think about my expectations for the team.
by robotchampion on Sep 11, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
my suggestion, if you have a systematically different view for which you have arguments to make
is to post it as a fanpost. Though I recommend framing as reasons to be positive rather than ‘everyone who is negative is wrong’.
Two more thoughts
First, I didn’t take your comment as a personal attack, so we’re fine. But none of us on the frontpage ever bash for bashing’s sake. You have no idea how much we want to cheer. But this team and the teams of the last decade are making it very hard for us fans to do that with sincerity. I do admire your optimism, but I think, and most of the comments here would support this, you are missing a lot of very important issues beyond the few bright spots from yesterday’s game.
Second, I would echo what Venice said, and if you don’t agree with what I write and have a different viewpoint, then you definitely should make yourself heard and write your own fanpost. Then we can all have that conversation. I don’t think they change the big picture, but there were some good things yesterday if you want to focus on them.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
Fair enough
But seriously, we don’t really care for “I will leave this site” rhetoric. We have been around long that it is more than old hat.
Awesome a GBCW comment
If you don’t like what is blogged here, go away. No one is going to miss you. If you lecture the moderators again, we will show you the exit ramp.
by Nestor on Sep 11, 2011 3:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I read the first sentence
Figured the rest would be a whinefest full of emotional crap and didn’t read it. Instead, I dug up a .gif of how the prospect of you leaving this site makes me feel:
Appreciate your optimism
and as I stated in my post, I hope we look back on this game and ask ourselves how OUR team only beat this SJS team by 10 points. However, what I read in your post sounds exactly like what I have read for the past 3 years by others after our 2nd or 3rd game of the season. Were there bright spots? Yes – in any win there will more than likely be any number of bright spots we can point to. Coach Palcic is doing a masterful job with the O line as has been well documented on this site. Brehaut had a good game (not a great game). Of course the defense looked good in this game – it’s SJS for pete’s sake. But, you cannot overlook that this game was tied going into the 4th quarter for our home opener against a terrible SJS team. Other than WSU the past couples of years, I will take any conference win almost no matter how we look but not against a team we should dominate and that lost to Stanford by 54 points. It took us almost 3 quarters to find D Coleman, our secret weapon. Regarding Fauria, of course we need to spread the ball around and not expect one receiver to do it all. But, to not find out if he is someone we can count on or if the Houston game was an aberration? None of the front pagers or regular posters on this blog bash for bashing sake. We want desperately for UCLA to return to football prominence and would love for an alumnus like CRN to be the one to lead us back to conference, Rose Bowl, and BCS bowl games.
I have been incredibly excited about our recruiting since CRN came aboard. And, the new coordinators on paper seem to be a much better fit than their predecessors. But, sooner or later, we need to see results on the field. I too hope we do not have to go thru another head coaching change to get this right. It can be painful, divisive, and a crapshoot at best. I too hope that this team begins to gel and that we finally get a conference win or two as an underdog and that we go into the U$C game with more than a hope and a prayer.
WSU
is going to trounce us this year. I hope people here are ready because it’s going to be ugly. Everyone including myself had that game notched as a win. Those guys are going to score buckets on us and it will be the final nail in the coffin. You read it here first.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Comparisons
Thanks for engaging me. That’s all I really wanted. There is only so much “give up for the season” I can take, but next time I will just stop reading instead of say silly things.
One point about what you said. I’m not sure comparing us to Stanford is the best. They have been dominant and may be playing for the championship this year. Their record is so easy that it might be the only reason they don’t get in it. Plus, Andrew Luck is looking like an NFL QB.
Expecting us to be at that level and then getting upset when we’re not. I would much rather just be ranked, like #24 or #23.
That’s not me being mediocre it’s me playing history. No program ever jumps into the top 10 in one year. They always start out on the 20s or high teens with a big year, then come in the following year to dominate.
Which means that, realistically, we want to be building for three years from now. Good season this year, better the following year (ending with a ranking), and then the following year in the top 10.
by robotchampion on Sep 12, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Note the discipline dichotomy
In terms of on the field stupidity, pushing opposing players after allowing the functional equivalent of a BCS JC offense to march 88 yards up the field or that utterly foolish penalty, CRN is not a disciplinarian as far as we can tell.
On the other hand, when it comes to off the field thievery and drug abuse, he drops the hammer, as he should.
By contrast, Coach was a disciplinarian when it came to on the court tomfoolery. Once I saw Tommy Curtis make a nifty behind the back pass to Bill Walton who gently bounced the ball off the glass for a basket.
As the ball dropped through the nets, I immediately looked at Coach who had already stood up and vigorously motioned for another player to race to the scorer’s table and replace Mr. Nifty Behind The Back Pass.
Poor Tommy then had a chance to relax on the bench and enjoy the game for the next several minutes. Tommy had one of the best seats in Pauley to watch the action.
Never saw Tommy Curtis make another slick behind the back pass ever again. Not once.
Last add. It is possible that CRN disciplines players on Monday—we just do not know. For all we know, wind sprint therapy may administered on Monday to players who betray the pride of those 4 letters on Saturday—we just do not know. One suspects Coach did both—during the game and afterwards.
Ugh.
That would be “may be administered on Monday. . . .”
One of the strangest evenings at the Rose Bowl
I have been working hard to maintain Nestor’s call for staying even-keeled as we roll through this football season. Last night at the game what struck me as I struggled to be in my personal state of even-keeldness was the strange atmosphere at the Bowl. It wasn’t just that it was quiet, which it was, it was not just the apathy, of which there was plenty. It was the lack of any emotion. The folks who yelled at CRN as he walked off the field at halftime were almost too quiet to be heard. And Rick appeared to be too tired to care to listen. As the horrific play stacked up no one in the stands around us (Tunnel 1) said anything. There was this sense of resignation, that this was just what it was and we were all there to be part of the mess.
That’s why G’s post resonates for me. And that’s why this time is so dangerous. To me, if it has taken CRN 4 years to at least get the depth chart to show some depth, what will it take to re-light the fire that used to be part of UCLA football? Can Rick do it or is he also infected with the malaise? Who is taking Rick aside and coaching him, telling him (at a high volume level) to suck it up and get back to the fight! Who is the UCLA standard bearer for excellence?
And as was posted upstream, the standard bearer appears to be us. I like the idea of not providing the University with funds until it gets focused on fixing the UCLA Athletic debacle (thanks 66). I think it would be great for all that feel so moved to send Rick e-mails, letters, Tweets, whatever and encourage him to dig down deep(er) and whatever the final outcome, get this UCLA team back into gear. I would encourage the students on BN to reach out for the players that you see on campus and in your classes and let them know you are right behind them, and to step it up for all Bruins. And I recommend that we commenc a focused campaign to bring whatever leadership change is required in Morgan Center or elsewhere at UCLA to get the football team the resources it needs to be successful.
The slope is slippery and it’s well past time to draw the line, dig in, and climb up the hill.
Was anyone shocked at Rose Bowl parking btw?
I had no idea they increased it from $15 to $20. That’s wack man.
Rose Bowl parking
Yes, I noticed the parking going up to $20 and was not happy about it at all.
That comes out to $120 parking for 6 home games. Is there anything we can do?
RV parking
It went up from $40 to $50 for an RV per game!!
by BRUINBANDMOM on Sep 11, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
It is not hopeless and we are not helpless
but everyone right now needs to cope with the realization that we need a culture change in our program, and the formula of bringing in Bruin alumni with Donahue ties is not going to get it done. Period.
gbruin, I have already walked out that door, and I have made my displeasure felt with my wallet (by refusing to buy tickets and donate to the program/school) and by doing something else with my Saturdays other than torturing myself with following Bruin football. Everyone also needs to cope with the realization that our Chancellor is not going anywhere, nor is our AD. But we can, and should, bring an all-out, agressive and fierce offensive and put pressure on these clowns to bring in a coach, a coach from OUTSIDE the program, who has proven, no-nonsense guy that is used to making more with less, who will change the culture, bring an identity, accountability, and a toughness to the program that we haven’t seen in over a generation. And, no, we don’t have to spend 4 million /year Nick Saban-like money to find someone like this. If a program like Stanford, who was 1-11 and bringing in 20,000 fans/game can find a Jim Harbaugh, or a San Diego St., who were seriously contemplating dropping the football program can bring in a Brady Hoke and change their cultures, so can we. But the pressure needs to start, and needs to start now. Or, we can continue to be the dog in your analogy, be “patient” in year freaking 4, continue to witness the silly mistakes, the stupid penalities, the ridilulous schemes, the gutless calls, the bonehead turnovers, the putrid Pistol, and half-filled stadiums and continue to take our shocks. Your call. But we are a joke right now, and have been for a while, and if Neuheisel were the right guy, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.
Like I said, I’ve already walked out that door, and I refuse to take any more torture. What are you going to do, Bruins?
+1
Already started my post when you wrote this, but totally agree. I don’t really care if a candidate has UCLA ties. I just want someone who knows how to win, and someone who knows how to maximize the talent from their players. If Chris Petersen can take 2 and 3 star recruits and create a top 5 team that beats up on SEC teams, we should be doing much better with the talent we have. If Petersen had our talent, he would have a freakin national championship by now.
by Kerckhoff405 on Sep 11, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Culture change from without, not within
At this point in CRN’s tenure, I don’t expect a sudden shift in that culture of mediocrity (or learned helplessness) coming from within the current coaching staff. The coordinators are too new, and haven’t proven effective enough to infuse a new sense of success or urgency. And with each mediocre performance on the field, players will just tune out all the talks from CRN about passion or caring. I mean, would you expect players to care if they felt their coach wasn’t putting their team in the best position to win? Punting the ball within the opponent’s 40 yard line, not getting the ball to your best players, and not even fielding your most talented and skilled players wouldn’t inspire me to give my all to a coach.
So, to answer your question about how to change culture. We need to bring in a new coach. I’m not saying I’m giving up on this team or on this season. I’m saying that we need a new coach to change the culture of mediocrity and this feeling of learned helplessness. I just don’t see it coming from within the current staff. And I think a new head coach does not need to have previous ties to UCLA. In fact, I think it would better to bring in someone with not ties to our program. All he needs to have is a history of recent success as a HC or even a coordinator in college. We need to go out and find the likes of Jim Harbaugh or Brady Hoke from mid major programs or even the FCS ranks, or even roll the dice with a strong coordinator like Brent Venables or Kirby Smart.
Don't Really Agree on Learned Helplessness
In Martin Seligman’s original experiment on learned helplessness the dogs were restrained by hammocks when shocked and could not escape. Later when put in a different condition where they could escape simply by jumping out most of them did not. Based on the original condition of not being able to escape it is as if they had learned to be helpless. This is often explained in terms of a cognitive learned expectancy that there was nothing they could do to escape the situation.
As a psychology professor I find it quite a stretch to apply this to our team. Has our coaching staff just given up because they believe there is nothing they can do to improve our performance? Have our players given up because they think there is nothing they can do to improve and to win? If learned helplessness was the problem they would have essentially given up trying, and to me that just doesn’t fit at all. Now there might be a lack of good discipline on our team or the lack of strict discipline for dumb mistakes by our coaching staff, but that is not same thing.
I know we are all very frustrated and are trying to find some answers and potential solutions. That game was sure deflating. I really don’t know what the problem is and frankly it just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. CRN took Washington to a Rose Bowl victory and Colorado to a Cotton Bowl victory. I saw his Washington and Colorado teams live in the Holiday Bowl, and there were none of the problems we see with our team. The offenses were very productive and the defenses were credible. So he knew how to coach and to win then. And of course Norm Chow was one of the all time best offensive coordinators and developers of quarterbacks in the history of college football, so he obviously knew how to coach, but he had no success here. I just don’t know how to make sense of this.
We have a lot of talent on this team, but is it possible that we don’t have the talent in the right places namely on the lines and at quarterback? So far both the offensive and defensive lines look unimpressive.
Or is it perhaps the lack of player development or possibly getting outschemed by other coaches?
I don’t understand all this anger at the athletic director. At the time he chose CRN it certainly seemed like an good choice. He was a proven winner while also being part of the UCLA family. It wasn’t as if he settled for mediocrity. There was no way of knowing that it would play out like it has. You can only judge a decision based on what was known at the time it was made, not with hindsight four years later. And firing CRN and getting a new coach is essentially starting all over again with an unknown result, so it is a last resort which is to be taken only when all reasonable hope of CRN being successful is gone. We seem to be fast approaching that point, but it didn’t seem that way before the season began.
What I see as the biggest problem with the punt on fourth and 2 in San Jose St. territory isn’t so much that it is reflects the lack of a winning attitude. It’s the reality that underlies that decision. And that reality is that given the play of our offensive line there was a fairly good chance that we would not have made it ( which would have been demoralizing and might explain the reason the decision was made to punt). Against a very weak team like San Jose St there should be at least an 80% to 90% chance that we could make a first down by running on fourth and 2. However that is clearly not the case, and that is the real problem. I don’t know if it is poor execution, poor scheming, lack of player development or talent. But we should not have a problem dominating San Jose St. (There was finally a glimpse of us doing that in the fourth quarter.)
One last thing. The game against Texas who is a ranked team is the most important game of the season in terms of the future direction of our program. I don’t know if it’s a make or break game for CRN. It can be a break game for him if we lose and look bad, but I don’t know if in itself it can be a make game, because more is required for the rest of the season. We have to win and look good and then continue to win and look good in subsequent games. (Incidentally has anyone noticed how Washington St. is destroying inferior competition? How come they can do this but we can’t? That’s a program on the upswing and our game with them will not be a walk in the park.)
Great thoughts Roger
For us though the most important game looming in the horizon is Oregon State. That is a must win game for Rick Neuheisel and the UCLA athletic program in general. We are not going to glean too much from the Texas game even if we get a win. We are not going to mistake from last year.
Regarding the Oregon St. game
I agree that the Oregon St. game is important too especially since it’s a conference game. However given Oregon St.’s abysmal performance so far this season (They actually lost at home to their San Jose St in Sacremento St. and then got murdered 35-0 on the road at Wisconsin) it will be a particularly bad indicator if we lose to them while not necessarily meaning that much if we beat them. Since Texas is a ranked team with still a lot of talent I think the Texas game is a better indicator of where our team is. We really need to beat both of them.
I disagree with that
We haven’t had a meaning road win in the Pac-10 against a solid program during the RN era. Last time we had a chance to do something close to that was when we went up to Seattle last night. We laid an egg against a Husky team which was being QBed by Jake Locker with broken ribs.
Otherwise, in last 3 years we haven’t had anything. Oregon State may be struggling but it’s still a Mike Riley coached team. It will be imperative for RN to start 1-0 by winning this winnable game on the road and then hold home field against Wazzu (I don’t even care about Stanford at this point).
As for Texas, they have their own issues. I don’t think it will take a lot for our players to be fired up for this game. I am sure some of the guys will be amped like Tyler Honeycutt was for the Kansas game. What will be telling for us coaching wise is how we perform against Oregon State. You can consider that game first of few “D-Days for UCLA football.”
We are not going to lose sleep over Texas at this point.
By which logic...
I am reserving judgment until after the Stanford game. If we beat OSU an ’Furd then I will know we are on track. Texas… Who knows. OSU sucks. I need to beat the Indians.
yup and wow
road Pac-10 wins under CRN:
2008 @ 0-12 Washington minus Locker
2009 @ 1-11 WSU (their one win: a 30-27 OT win over SMU at home)
… and that’s it.
It hadn’t fully dawned on me quite how horrible our road conference record has been, perhaps because of ‘high profile’ road wins over mediocre Tennessee and Texas teams. That is truly pitiful.
Also back in 2008, we beat at home a Stanford team that finished just a game ahead of us at 5-7… but the programs have been on somewhat different trajectories since.
one other note
Oregon State has 2 weeks to prepare for us – not trying to make pre-emptive excuses, just an observation that they will likely give us their best shot.
A few points Roger with your line of thinking
1. Norm Chow has turned out to be vastly overrated, mainly by the stupid LA media. There’s no great mystery about why he failed here; he simply wasn’t that good, plus he was old and the game had somewhat passed him by. His success came with two controlling head coaches who had established dynastic programs with lots of experienced size and talent.
2. CRN’s best two years came in his second year at CU and second year at UW — both with players who had already been coached by dynastic coaches in established programs which he left worse off than he inherited, with many of the problems of discipline and fundamentals we are seeing now. Neither team dominated. He inched out several games in 4th quarter comebacks both those years. Partly because he was an aggressive and confident playcaller back then — something he has completely left behind — and partly no doubt because of luck.
Either way, no tremendous psychological mystery. The sense that UCLA is a cursed ground where even coaching geniuses lose their minds is a silly superstition that CRN’s failure here should do nothing to promote. He was a risky and questionable hire — he was fourth on DG’s and most of our lists for a reason — who was turned down by SMU and Georgia Tech. Everything else has been hype and hope. No need to get self-pitiful because of it.
Bluebland, I don't agree with your line of reasoning
CRN took over at Washington in 1999 from Jim Lambright. I certainly don’t know who would consider Jim Lambright a dynastic coach (Don James was). In his last year of 1998 Lambright’s team went 6-6 and finished in a tie for 5th in the conference. CRN’s 2000 team finished 11-1, was ranked #3 nationally, beat Miami when they were a dynasty, and beat Purdue led by Drew Brees in the Rose Bowl, but Jim Lambright should be given the credit for this? And going 11-1 isn’t a great success if you didn’t dominate the games but won some close games and won the really big games? Is it better to be say like Oregon who has totally dominated most of their games until they play a big game on a national stage and then flop? Also I think some of the reason CRN was fourth choice had to do with the ethical questions that came up from his past coaching positions. And that at least has not turned out to be a problem at all.
You raise a good point about Norm Chow being in dynastic systems, but you don’t give him any credit. Pete Carroll was primarily a defensive coach, so I think Norm Chow had a lot to do with developing the two Heisman winners Palmer and Leinart. But he did have one essential thing at both BYU and USC: really good offensive lines that could pass block. That’s a minimum requirement I would think for developing top quarterbacks. We haven’t had that, and since Chow was not an offensive line coach that wasn’t his fault.
And I agree with you about UCLA not being cursed ground for coaches. I’m not sure why this has turned out so badly thus far with CRN, and I certainly don’t think there is some mystical reason. There must be some combination of factors, but I don’t know what they are. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.
I didn't mean to imply that Lambright was a dynastic coach
But when you’re best season is in your second year with a team full of players who were not yours — you simply can’t get full credit for having developed, taught, or recruited those players. CRN won some big games that year but it’s possible for such wins to be flukes, and the high number of 4th quarter comeback squeakers goes both ways in what it implies. Dorrel went 10-2 in his third year, thanks to MJD and Mercedes Lewis and at least 5 4th quarter comebacks. Charlie Weis went 10-2 in his first two years. Many coaches have great first or second years with previous talent. It is not very firm proof of their ability to lead a program.
And in 2001, UW was a 24 point underdog to Miami at home…and lost by about 40.
Nor does the Oregon comparison pass much muster. Oregon beat the number 2 team in the nation last year — Stanford — 51-32, and lost a nailbiter in the NC. They did it with a redshirt soph. qb who probably won’t be a pro-bowler in the NFL, unlike the players Norm Chow had the good luck to coach.
As for Chow, I’m not depriving him of all credit, but there is a reason Pete Carroll fired him (as did the Titans) and SC offense was little different with Sark and Kiffin, who are no offensive geniuses. Everyone knows Petey was heavily involved in the offense as with all aspects of his team. I am more impressed with offensive coaches who can create tremendous offenses without heavily experienced future pro-bowlers.
Glad you replied, Roger
I thought we had a psych prof around here but couldn’t remember who. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I’ll just pull one of your lines
If learned helplessness was the problem they would have essentially given up trying,
That’s the thing. I actually wondered last night if Coach Neuheisel was really trying anymore.
I usually don’t go for the whole body language thing, but something about Neu really shocked me last night. This is the guy who 2 years ago was in the face of a 3rd string QB who was bending over backward to try to make a play. This is the guy who invented the passion bucket. This was the one coach in America who was dying to have the U.C.L.A. job. Last night, for the first time ever, he looked like his heart just wasn’t in it: The weak effort to communicate with his player after a boneheaded play. The slumping posture on the sideline. The passive behavior and passive play calling. And for the first time, he didn’t address the crowd after the game. Something really struck me with our coach last night. He looked beaten down, like he has tried to teach these kids, but feels it’s just not happening. He looked to me how many fans seem to feel – resigned to fate with no more will to fight.
I do agree that the Texas game is really big, and will tell us a lot about what this team is made of. While OSU is a far more important game for the season, I think our players while have more emotional investment in Texas, and their performance will be very telling.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
Thanks gbruin
CRN was probably in a state of shock and disbelief during the game, but I’m sure he has not given up on the season. As far as addressing the crowd, well that would have been just suicidal. Without a doubt he would have been booed off the stage.
ANALYSIS PARALYSIS
I agree with both the negative and positive posts thus far…but this is the second game of the year. I know what everyone is thinking, CRN has been here for years, ok your right, but we have the most talent on this team than we have had for years. Like many of us on the forum the Bruins took SJSU too lightly and it bit them. Look at this team, the depth, the talent, the speed, right now they are lacking leadership from the sidelines, play calling and confidence…a big win against Texas this week could change it all, get them rolling, change the mindset….believe me I was as pissed as all of you watching the game last night, but lets not give up on these kids. If at the end of the year CRN departs or stays based on his performance that is fine, but lets think Texas, think winning and think there is a strong football team that with some momentum can get some solid victories.
One stud away
Everyone agrees that this team has a hell of a lot of talent but can’t seem to bring it all together yet. Aside from some of the inconsistency on offense, I can’t help but think if this team had at least one full blown stud on the defensive line that could command the respect of both the opposing offense and his peers we would be so much better. We need someone that everyone on our team strives to be as good as, someone who leads by example and commands respect from both his peers and the opposing team. The coaches preach in practice but when the whistle blows we don’t have the stalwart in the game that everyone looks to for leadership. We’re all over the place with no identity. There is so much to be hopeful for with these kids but unfortunately at this level it’s no longer a kids game. So far Datone hasn’t lived up to this years hype, hopefully he can get it going this week and help pull the rest of the group up by the bootstraps. Get those Longhorns!!!
“Hasn’t lived up to expectations” – how often do we hear that from the UCLA program??? You’re right – no LEADERSHIP – nobody is willing or able to step up and take control of either offense or defense. We need a Brian Urlacher on defense who wants to hit someone and wants to win each and every play. Ditto on offense – but without a steady QB we’re just drifting as you said. I don’t care how fast somebody can run or throw if they can’t step up and walk the talk. We’re whispering on the field while the teams we play against are shouting in our faces!
What is the opposite of 'home-field advantage'?
I wonder if excessive negativity of fans (and I’ll admit, I’m one of them) is what’s infecting each new team of Bruins with this malaise. What if we fans frequently boo the team (eg. for punting on 4th & 2) and post so much negativity online? I mean, they did win – it wasn’t a pretty win but they didn’t give up.
Could our negativity be creating a ‘home-field disadvantage’? Could we be sapping their morale?
It may be that CRN & the players don’t really care what we think. OTOH: DG responded to our outrage over the Pac-12 ad …
or could be that we don't boo with enough enthusiasm...
boo like Rick isn’t the only one who cares!!
If they don't like it they have the power to change it
Rock,
I always want to be sensitive to the players and the program as a whole, but each player on that field has the ability to effect change. Bruin fans are begging for something to support to the fullest and be proud of. Though quite personal to many of us, it’s completely different than the unconditional love you may feel for a family member. When you have something vested you expect results and I don’t think the expectations of most on this site are unreasonable. I hope your comment regarding the negativity is wrong though, because the players really do need to know that the fans are behind them.
LEADERSHIP
We simply don’t have leaders – on the field or off the field – to get our players stoked up to win. Fans can help – but we’re paying money in support of our team and to see them play up to their potential. We currently have very (very) few players playing up to their potential. I HOPE A COUPLE OF PLAYERS OR COACHES READ THESE POSTS…maybe they just don’t get what the real problem is. I think most of us do.
IT'S THE CULTURE STUPID
Interesting reading above – I read through most of the posts but I just started and it’s getting late here so I’ll just pass on my agreement that we have a culture issue here – not only on our football team but I’m afraid this is starting to slowly infect some of our other teams as well. We expect mediocrity and we’re getting it. Tell me – if you had $25 to bet on a play would you bet the money on UCLA making a first down with a 3rd down and 3 or suc going for a first down with a 3rd down and 8? As much as I hate sc I’d put my money on them because they WANT to win – not tie, not kick FG’s, not “play well” – they want to win and they usually do. We’re UCLA – we’re not used to winning anymore. I graduated in ‘78 and I remember when we played to win. I just don’t see or feel that anymore.
I just deleted three copies of the SJSU game because it literally sickens me to watch how lame we are. NO leadership. NObody getting in someone’s shit for a lousy play. Just VANILLA all around – and I don’t like vanilla.
+1
And shamefully making fools of themselves when making the expected play!
We all saw the same game, there is nothing new I can add regarding fault/solution.
I do believe there is and has been coaching issues in both Basketball and Football at UCLA for over a decade now. While Basketball is a lot more accomplished in that time period, I remember vividly the “lack of coaching” concerns during Lavin’s reign, and recently I believe Baron Davis tweeted something to the effect of “Pretty good for not having a coach”. In Football, there are many more players. You either establish an attitude of excellence, work ethic, and consistent execution, get the players to buy in, and reinforce that with players year in and year out, or you end up where we are at. I see no passion. I don’t see any heros out there, except for the guys who are playing with passion because they are playing for themselves (Fauria, Franklin and Coleman come to mind). They are personally driven and want to achieve all they can and don’t need a coach to pursuade them.
And Coach Rick Neuheisal can bark “I can’t be the only one who cares”, or take any other action, disciplinary or otherwise, to try to make the players buy in, but there is only one way to establish a winning team and that is to thoroughly make the team believe they can win by following the coaches lead and striving for excellence at every moment on and off the field.
That’s not to say that it all comes down to just coaching psychology but clearly there is some disconnect in playcalling as well, with this last game being a step backward for both the offense and defense. Zero rhythm.
Regarding the original post, dog psychology is demonstrative but not at all indicative of what humans will do. We have the ability to reason, to demand change, and we have the voice and intellect to express what we demand. We also have resilliency to be able to withstand many years of pain and suffering and walk out the otherside of situations in far less traumatic shock than a dog or other animal, who would likely remain scarred terribly for life. In the example, that dog will never hear that bell again and not cringe or whimper. No matter the training.
Which just proves that we are not dogs laying here whimpering. We know how it works. When our team looks like crap at home against San Jose State University, we all reason what it means:
1) This team is probably not going to have a stellar season this year unless they radically change.
2) There is plenty of talent on the field, and they seem to running aimlessly around unable to make smart decisions (aka poorly coached).
3) We should expect that, should this season turn out poorly, Rick Neuheisal will be shown the door. All indicators point to this being high probability.
Simple reasoning.
For the extra step though, and I have seen similar situations in other sports in the past and have some experience here:
4) I encourage every fan to not wallow in the fact that this is not a national championship caliber team. There are a lot of NCAA football teams and only 2 play in the national championship game. Instead, enjoy the season for what it is, take pride in players who do perform and develop well, think about Brett Hundley and the rest of the talent that returns next season and in the mean time, hope for a 6-6 season and a potential bowl game. The kids do work very hard and deserve some recognition for their work, after all. Hey, we’re not as bad as SJSU. We just have some issues that need to be addressed is all. Maybe that will be straighten itself out this year, maybe coaching changes will come to straighten it out.
After all, being a Bruin fan of a 0-12 team is better than being a Trojan fan any day of the week.
13-9
we've bounced back from worse performances than this one...
I think I was kind of expecting the lackluster effort to begin with. The mid week outburst by CRN only confirmed my suspicions further. This one had a real good chance of going the other way and causing serious long term damange to the program, and especially recruiting.
I’ve lost a lot of confidence in Tresey. Was he really the best guy for the job or was he just the best available, at the zero hour, from an utterly depelted candidate pool? I think it’s painfully obvious the D has taken a big step back this year. We know they have the talent on that side of the ball so it’s clearly the coaching/scheming that has gone awry. They finally woke up in the 4th quarter but it took putting their backs against the wall to make it happen.
So frustrating, we’re finally getting good QB play but of course now we have a new, huge glaring weakness to contend with and overcome. This weekend will the deciding game which defines the rest of our season. There is still hope yet, the healing power of W’s can be miraculous to a D who’s trying t find their identity!
I took Professor Grijalva as well
I ended up being a Polisci major but that Psych 10 class was probably one of my favorite classes at UCLA. Great point you make, let’s hope that last Saturday was more of an aberration than a persisting condition.
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