Spaulding Roundup: Brehaut Under Center And Kip Smith's Leg
by Patroclus on Sep 9, 2011 5:01 AM PDT
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PrintToday is another Football Friday. The Bruins are getting ready for their second game of this season, and their first contest at the Rose Bowl. After the frustration by Coach Neuheisel of how Wednesday's practice ended, reports stated that Thursday saw more focus and a higher energy from the team. While the session did not produce much new news, the quarterbacking situation for Saturday did look clearer at the end of the afternoon.
After practice, Neu told the assembled media that Richard Brehaut would likely be the starter tomorrow, but that he planned on Kevin Prince seeing some action as well. As Peter Yoon noted in his practice report for ESPNLA, Prince's injured shoulder was sore after practice on Wednesday, and went on to throw a reduced number of passes with the second team (he ran a few plays with the first team, but attempted only 1 pass) yesterday. Apparently, the reduced throwing is just a precaution.
"Kevin is fine," Neuheisel said. "He rested it but he could have ripped it around today. We're just giving it another 24 hours and he’ll throw a bit tomorrow and be ready to go on Saturday."
Earlier in the week, Neuheisel said that while both of the prime QB's would see game action against San Jose St, the choice of starter would come down to how much throwing Prince would be able to do in practice through the week. Given that Kevin did not participate on Tuesday, threw a reduced number of passes - and not with the starters - on Thursday, and is expected to 'throw a bit' today, In his ESPN.com chat yesterday, Yoon added that as of Wednesday's practice, Prince had not been able to throw at full strength. Given the combination of factors, it would appear that Brehaut will be the first one to line up under center, whether or not Prince is able to play.
Jon Gold noted that the offensive line had a good practice, and that Jeff Baca should be back on the field tomorrow night. Jeff's twitter looks to support that, and Peter Yoon has an interview with him here. In injury news, Damien Thigpen and Jamie Graham remain out of practice, with no timetable for their return.
While talking about short-term quarterbacking matters after practice, Coach Neuheisel also confirmed that Kip Smith is and will be the Bruins placekicker. To be accurate, the newfound certainty on the staff's part is not so much from improvement in Kip's kicking, but the realization that none of the alternatives would be better; Joe Roberts is recovering from a leg injury, while Jeff Locke was not impressive at the job, and raised the concern in Coach Neuheisel that taking over placekicking duties could lessen his effectiveness in punting and kicking off. With this said, Kip has made changes in his kicking mechanics and is working on improving his consistency, with some success - making several kicks in practice, but missing a 40-yard attempt during the 2-minute drill at the end of practice. While Kip has struggled over the past several weeks, let's keep in mind these words from Rick.
The end of Wednesday's practice - and Coach Neuheisel's accompanying outburst - got plenty of folks attention. It seemed at the time a reaction to a sloppy series of plays by the offense in the drill closing out that afternoon's practice, a though supported by his later explanations to the media. As Gold noted in his report:"Kip has worked hard," Neuheisel said. "He's a very talented young man and has to trust that we have confidence in him. And trust himself."
Rick Neuheisel, interestingly, came out and told reporters that in hindsight, his frustration might have been a little misplaced. ..., but that his ire was with the small mistakes and missteps.
Peter Yoon's post elaborated on Neuheisel's discussion of his momentary frustration.
"I was just frustrated with some offside penalties at the end of practice," he said. "As I watched tape, the team was actually playing very well."
... "I might have been the one that was most frustrated rather than them," he said, later adding that "it’s important that they know that we as coaches are only trying to pull the very best out of them. And believe wholeheartedly in their abilities and their character and believe that this can be a terrific season regardless of how things went in game one."
The Bruins practice again today, before taking the Rose Bowl field tomorrow at 7pm. Don't forget to vote for Bruins Nation as the most valuable sports blog of LA.
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Sounds Familiar
Talk about playing an injured Kevin Prince who has not practiced, all out this week reminds me of the past. For Kevin’s sake, I’d like to see him take enough time off to be truly ready to play. I respect that he is a gamer and will play hurt. But, there’s no reason to put him at risk, for yet another season, when Brehaut probably earned the start with his game last week. I hope this is just CRN playing his card games, again. BTW — I’m not sure the misdirection really works when the choice is these two qb’s. Now, if he’s thinking of playing Hundley — that’s really hiding a card up his sleeve.
sjh
misread that as "For Heaven's sake"
but hey, that could be another reason too. We should let Prince recover and play Brehaut, and possibly even our 3rd string just for experience (or are we still saving the possibility that Brett Hundley is red shirting). It seems completely unnecessary to have this QB competition against what should be a beatable SJSU, while Prince is fresh off injury.
CRN's misplaced frustration
His rant could just as well have been directed at the Morgan Center. In fact I could well see that it was the underlying cause…
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
KP vs. RB...
I don’t understand the desire to play Prince no matter what. Usually, when you have two quarterbacks competing for playing time, there’s a reason why you don’t go with one or the other, hence the adage that if you have two quarterbacks, you don’t have a quarterback. But unless I’m missing something (and from CRN or Mike Johnson’s stand point, that could be missed reads on plays, which as a football non pro, I wouldn’t notice), it seems that Brehaut answered a lot of questions during the Houston game. The one knock on his was that he couldn’t run like Prince, and that might be true, yet he did run pretty effectively. And it seemed like he had poise and accurate passes.
Against a foe like San Jose St., who the Bruins should handle without trouble, I think it would be a good coaching move to end the uncertainty, have the team rally around one leader, and then go into the Texas game with certainty. No one denies KP has guts, the dude has had more bad injury breaks than any QB I can remember in recent memory, but for an offense that showed a LOT of promise and momentum, I think Brehaut is the best option (and healthy option).
Lawrence Ross
witty banter
I’m just going to stop waiting for CRN verbal approval and instead look to see who gets the first team snaps b/c that will be the QB who starts.
by robotchampion on Sep 9, 2011 9:07 AM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
brehaut got all the first team reps this week
With hundley and prince splitting second team.
by Objection Penguin on Sep 9, 2011 9:38 AM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
About missed reads on plays
I’m also not a football pro, so I can’t confirm this, but in Peter Yoon’s chat on espnLA yesterday, he mentioned that during our Q4 drive against Houston that resulted in a missed FG, Brehaut kept the ball and got stuffed for no gain, when if he had handed it off to Coleman, it would have almost been a sure-fire touchdown, after which he pointed out that a KP keeper almost never yields 0 yards, where as Brehaut, at least more often than Prince, will make the wrong read in that situation.
Perhaps more game time for RB will close that gap in decision making between the two QBs, but what Yoon described above is the kind of thing that we as fans might miss in what was an otherwise very strong performance by RB last weekend, causing us to be more perplexed than we should be by the coaching staff’s indecision on a #1 QB so far.
+1
I think Brehaut’s game looks really good to fans, but still misses the total mastery of the offense that CRN is looking for. I am pretty sure Brehaut “missed” (in CRN’s eyes) at least a couple huge reads in both the run and throw games. And as the QB’s coach, CRN was probably thinking if those reads were perfect, we win the game. Which is why he sounds reluctantly positive about RB’s game in the post-game comments. Just my take….
would be interested in seeing more breakdown on this
everyone misses reads or throws some of the time; I’d be interested to see how often Brehaut is making what CRN thinks is the right read – and also, how often it doesn’t matter too much, because he makes the wrong read and then still gets the ball into a receiver’s hands for a gain.
I get the impression that even if Brehaut leads us on a 99-yd touchdown drive, it might not inspire CRN’s confidence for future success if he is slinging the ball around outside the offense. Not suggesting that CRN would prefer failure within the system to success outside it, just that I think it affects the coach’s level of trust in his QB; and succeeding with some low percentage plays in one game doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be better in a large sample to go with higher percentage plays.
For what it’s worth – the decision-making was the ‘knock’ on Brehaut last year, and it seemed to me that it was improved against Houston – definitely fewer ‘heart-in-mouth’ moments; and I was also really impressed with the way he stepped in off the bench ‘game ready’.
That's a really good point
Pistol sets rely on those kinds of reads, and making the wrong ones will almost certainly result in little to no gain (whereas the right ones can yield great benefits).
Maybe great benefits.
At least a consistant 4-6 yards from a base defense should be possible. RB seemed to be pushing himself a little too hard or hurried in the 4th, little more time with real game situations he might improve dramatically.
Look at the big picture
Our defense let us down. Our offense put up enough points to win.
Any talk of one player not making a couple of reads especially when he had the best QB performance in the last 5 years at UCLa is short-sighted. He made some special plays that kept us in the game and a couple of his receivers let him down by dropping some balls. The guy is a good runner and his passing skills are above and beyond Prince’s.
If CRN is nit picking over these details to find ways to keep Prince in the mix then it’s clearly favoritism.
Nit picking over details is an essential part of a coach's job.
If CRN believes that KP would have scored one more touchdown last Saturday then he believes that, given our defensive woes, KP would have won the game. It is CRN’s job – and his passion – to see UCLA win every game possible. He is on the hot seat and he has more data than any of us fans do.
There is plenty of evidence that RB is the better athlete but KP is better at the mental aspect of QB’ing.
If you have any evidence that CRN is playing favorites I’d like to see it.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 9, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok I see what you saying but the problem is
I stopped giving CRN the benefit of the doubt for various reasons and one them is his 15-23 record. Coaches are not always right and that’s why many get fired.
If CRN believed KP could score one more TD then he was assuming a little too much. Do you think KP would have passed for over 60% and 225 yards and put the Bruins in a position to win the game? You have to remember that a couple of RB’s passes were dropped as well and they could have changed the outcome of the game.
I will agree details are important but this week the attention should have been on tackling and how we will change out schemes so we dont have another debacle.
The only edge KP has over RB is experience and speed. The mental aspect is debatable as I still don’t understand why KP does not think to slide and avoid injuries. Many coaches would have named RB the starter this year. Many writers and fans feel the same way.
do you understand how the pistol operates?
The argument being made is: with some better reads by the QB, the offense could have been better – and mostly better in the run game.
As to what Prince would have done if he had stayed in – when he went down, he was passing for over 99% and was on pace (assuming he got the same 26 pass attempts that Brehaut had) for 500 yards through the air. I suspect that those numbers may not have been sustainable [/understatement]. Yet, certainly conceivable he could have made it to 60% and 225 yards if necessary. In an ideal world, we wouldn’t be passing that much because we wouldn’t get so far behind and would be pounding the run game with Prince directing the traffic.
Pistol offense
Do I undertand the pistol offense? Not as much as Mastro but I am learning along with CRN, Coach Johnson, and the rest of us.
You are doing a lot of assuming on Prince’s behalf but did you assume he would get hurt?
Listen, many teams run a similar attack and even the experienced ones get snuffed at the line of scrimmage and/or lose yards. Not every attempt will be for 10 or 15 yards. It’s not some kind of magical offense. The offense still requires offensive linemen to block so it’s a little more complicated then just the QBs reads.
Brehaut still managed to get 86 yards so he did a good job overall with the reads. Was he perfect? No. I just think it’s a little unfair to nit pick at someone who brought the team back from a large deficit and put them in a position to win.
What I do know about the pistol is it’s flexibiltiy to also include the pass which will be needed to make the running game even better.
No one is discounting RBs performance
but it’s not like he relieved Prince due to poor performance. KP had a very promising (but unfortunately brief) go of it in that game.
Looking back at my original comment, which sparked all of this, RB had a very good game. But I brought up something pointed out by a member of the press (since you use their opinions to back your position as well) that a bad read by RB may have caused us to settle for a FG-attempt, and ultimately come away with 0 points in the 4th qtr when we’re down by 2 scores. Yoon also stated that such a botched read by KP is extremely rare. I was only trying to add some perspective to the QB position drama that may not be immediately obvious from having watched the game.
I wasn’t presenting an argument for KP over RB, but instead suggesting that the ongoing QB battle may be more legitimate than some seem willing to admit.
if you don't understand the pistol - and nor do I claim to to any great degree
then comments like “Brehaut still managed to get 86 yards so he did a good job overall with the reads” don’t make much sense; and a good read by the QB is not necessarily reflected in a QB’s rushing yards, but in the overall team rushing performance. In the example described by Yoon, the difference between the right read and the wrong read was the difference between a 14 yard Coleman TD run and a -1 yard Brehaut keeper.
It’s conceivable Brehaut could make the wrong read every time and get to 100 yards rushing (with his running backs not getting many yards), or the right read every time and only get to 50 (with his running backs going for a lot of yards). The number of yards the QB gets on the ground is not a convincing statistic for how well he is running the offense.
I think a better argument can be made that last year vs Houston, we only averaged 5.2 per carry as a team under Prince, but that was up to 5.5 per carry this year. But, 2nd year in the system (rather than 3rd game), returning all your RBs and QBs, maybe you hope to do better against an equally porous Houston frontline. Not sure – but I think this is a better argument for ’Brehaut’s reads can’t have been terrible’ than anything else you are saying.
You are right,
you are not a pistol expert. So QB rushing yards are not a good indicator that he might have made good reads?. Even the announcers commented on Brehaut’s running performance. Was he perfect no? But you know if would have pitched it and fumbled by Coleman people would be criticizing that as well. Give me 80 yards anyday no matter how.
Thank for you for stats and argument but I will like to add the following:
Prince’s stats vs Houston 2010 : 9-17, 99 yards,1 interception , 60 rushing yards, 1 rushing TD
Brehaut’s stats vs Houston 2011: 17-26, 264 yards,2 tDs, 0 INts, 87 rushing, 1 rushing TD (3 quarters of play)
Last year Keenum was carted off with an injury so they only scored 17 points and our defense was better.
This year, well you know what happened.
ROFL
at trying to compare QB performances a year apart, played at different venues, under different coaching staffs. C’mon man, at least be intellectually honest about your argument.
Thank you for adding to my argument
you are good for something, I think.
It was much tougher this time as visitors and did I mention the humidity. But the biggest difference is our defense let us down so we played catch up….even tougher.
Playing catch up favors the pass
so there’s 1 reason to explain the extra passing stats. Also, our offense (even with RB as the starter) struggled to pass the ball last year. It was everyone’s first year in the pistol. You’re being wholly unfair by assuming that Brehaut will improve in year 2 of the pistol under CRN/CMJ/CJM but Prince will not.
Your arguments have all been logically flawed.
Chrissy
Passing is passing. If the guy is open no matter what offense you are running you can’t throw it over their head or into the ground.
So what measuring stick can we use to compare who is better or makes better reads?
After reading all of this back and forth I still have one question
What evidence is there that CRN’s decision to “keep KP in the mix” are due to incompetence, favoritism or any other ulterior motive?
I reject the argument “CRN disagrees with my opinion and I saw it clearly on the TV screen. I have TiVo so I watched it over and over again.”
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 9, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Knuddy
It’s useless to argue about CRN’s shortcomings/favoritisms because I feel you are one of his supporters and nothing I say will change your mind so I will keep it short. Brehaut has always been the more talented QB and this year I felt he finally proved it from the reports (posters. jounalists, etc). Now you might think I dont know squat but I attended the scrimmage and found myself seeing the same things. Although Prince had some good throws , I would say most people left with the impression Brehaut was the starter. In radio interviews before fall practice CRN basically said Prince was the heavy favorite even after a mediocre season where again he got injured. He alluded to Brehaut’s lack of commitment because he played baseball. To me is sounded like he had made up his mind. and was hoping Prince would run away with it but no Brehaut actually got better. So again Prince lets us down by not sliding and injures his shoulder and gets a concussion, Why can’t CRN name Breahut the starter right away for the SJ game. Why cant he just sit Prince down? Not even after a concussion?
Sorry, I said i would keep it short but let me ask you. Do you think CRN will get fired and not make it til year 5?
Evidence ...
in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. Giving or procuring evidence is the process of using those things that are either (a) presumed to be true, or (b) were themselves proven via evidence, to demonstrate an assertion’s truth. Evidence is the currency by which one fulfills the burden of proof.
I’m waiting to see something demonstrating your assertion of CRN’s favoritism (among other things). Note that opinion and speculation, while fun to produce, are not evidence.
and FWIW:
I am a supporter of the ‘eye test’:
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/6/18/2230501/2011-UCLA-Football-Season-Eye-Test
Regardless of our team’s W/L record if Neuheisel cannot make the Bruins look like a D-1A team (ie. pass the eye test) he needs to go. I am a patient man I will reserve judgement for at least a few more games.
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 9, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
Yeah and I guess OJ didnt do it.
I guess you are still buying what Slick Rick is selling.
Regardless of record? So you are throwing away evidence because it doesn’t fit your opinion. Nice
The Eye Test? Slick Rick just pulled a fast one on you and you didn’t see it.
Ha, at least two games? LOL But a patient man waits til the end of the season.
Hey Bruinrolo
No disrespectful nicknames for the coach here. You can criticize his decisions without them.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
LOL
“even the announcers commented on Brehaut’s running performance”
but seriously, you cited number of running yards by the QB in response to a comment about how Brehaut made a specific bad read where he should have given up the ball to another player. It misses the point.
If we’re playing the ‘difference from last year’ card, this year we apparently have receivers who can catch; and the Houston defense lost a number of starters from last year. In any case, I take it that neither of us are qualified to actually judge how many good or bad reads he made. So it’s probably pointless to disagree on that…
Vinny B
Yes, he might have made a bad read but the majority of them were good and he kept us in the game with his feet and arm.
Give yourself some credit, you dont have to be genius to understand football. Yes, most coaches know more than the average person but they also make mistakes and that’s why many get fired.
Let me ask you something. Do you think CRN will get fired? No ifs, yes or no?
forgive me if I can't readily agree
with “he might have made a bad read but the majority of them were good” – I don’t think you are qualified to say so. CRN seems to think Richard can do better at that and that Kevin deserves to be in the mix. You believe that CRN is preferring to give snaps to a definitively worse QB out of some ulterior motive. Nothing you’ve said to date convinces me that your opinion is correct.
Most coaches do know more than the average person. When it comes down to very specific details, including microanalyzing decision-making in the film room, I think they know a lot more than the average person.
Not sure exactly how to answer your question, let me know if this is adequate:
I don’t think CRN will get fired at the end of this season. I expect us to go 5-7 or 6-6 in the regular season and CRN to come back for a 5th year. He will then have a year to earn an extension to his contract.
ok, i agree to disagree
Somehow people are qualified to say Prince runs the pistol better but I can’t chime in. Do I need to be head coach and watch film to let you know Franklin is the best back? Do I need to be an expert to say Fauria catches the ball a lot better than Harkey? Do I need to be a kicking expert to tell you that Kip smith is struggling and should probably not play him the Houston game?
Last question because I hope to go to sushi. Are you qualified to say CRN has been less than stellar at UCLA with a 15-23 record? How can I give CRN the benefit of the doubt when his decisions have led us to such a bad record?
Just curious, Bruinrolo
Do you know what ‘reads’ are?
by KnudsenRockne on Sep 9, 2011 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's short sighted
to claim that a QB coach “nitpicking over details” is just playing favorites. Football is all about the details.
For the record, my comment above was not meant to be an argument in favor of either QB, but to point out that there are things (those damned details) that the average fan won’t always notice, and in this particular QB competition, I think those harder to observe details tend to favor Prince. (Note that I am not claiming Prince is the overall better QB, just that it’s easier to fall in love with Brehaut, his strengths are more easily observable imo) I know I sure as hell didn’t say to myself after RB kept it for a 0 yard gain, “Dammit, Coleman would have had a TD there”!
Also, claiming the offense put up enough points to win, doesn’t mean the offense can’t be better!
agree with all your points on this thread
not to mention the fact that it also seems to fit with CRN’s own comments re the QB competition.
Even if Brehaut is the better option for us – if only because he is able to keep himself on the field – then CRN can still point out ways Prince has an edge, to try to get Brehaut to work to improve in those areas.
The only alternative to getting Brehaut to improve in those areas – or Prince to stay healthy (and potentially improve his throws) – is retooling the offense around Brehaut’s strengths; but that is not feasible on any large scale at this point.
Interesting...
On BRO (behind firewall) Tresey is saying that Kendricks is going to start at Sam linebacker. The starting 3 would then be Kendricks, Larimore, Westgate. Frankly, I’m surprised the Sam backer didn’t go to Zummy. Maybe Zum will be the first guy in to backup any of those three?
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