Basketball Roundup, Oregon State Preview, and Ben Howland’s Offense
In some ways, tonight's 7:36 p.m. PST game at Oregon State is the reverse image of the last game against USC. No, I am not comparing used prophylactics to semi-aquatic rodents but rather basketball teams. Just as USC was a good defensive team but terrible on offense, Oregon State is terrible on defense but good on offense. However, Oregon State has more talent than USC in one player alone: Jared Cunningham. That talent is tempered by an Oregon State coach whose greatest accomplishment remains his sister's marriage.
This game is a must win and a "should" win. But it will be an interesting test. Oregon's shooting guard Jared Cunningham is such a great talent, that even Coach Robinson can't screw him up too much. Cunningham leads the conference in scoring by a small margin but leads the conference in free throw attempts by a large margin. To put it in perspective Jared Cunningham has more free throw attempts than UCLA's top two players combined. In fact Cunningham has more free throw makes by 40 than the next nearest player in the conference. Tyler Lamb fouled out against USC and may not be able to make it to the end of this game as he will be assigned to guarding Cunningham. The SPTRs tend to favor the home team and if Cunningham goes to the line a dozen times, the Bruins may literally run out of guards and/or have to play David Wear at small forward (not by choice).
Oregon State's backcourt is impressive offensively as PG and primary three point threat Ahmad Starks is not too shabby either:
In order to do so, they will have to contain Jared Cunningham, the leading scorer in the conference at 17.6 points a game, and Ahmad Starks, who is 12th in the league with 13.7 points per game. In conference games, Cunningham and Starks are averaging 19 and 16.2 points per game, respectively, to rank first and fourth.
"This is going to be really challenging," said coach Ben Howland, whose team has won 13 consecutive games against Oregon State. "They have really good guards, I'm telling you. Starks and Cunningham are really good."
The Beavers (11-7, 1-5 Pac-12) have lost five out of six conference games, but are the only conference team to have defeated California and also had an overtime victory against Texas earlier this season. Oregon State is 8-2 at home this season.
As far as the rest of the team, Bruin Report Online has an interesting preview:
With teams starting to key on shutting down Cunningham and, to a certain extent, Starks, sophomore Devon Collier (6'8" 215 lbs.) has been stepping up. He's coming off a 21-point effort at Arizona State last weekend. Because of the size of the other two OSU starters in the post, Collier creates a massive match-up issue for the Bruins. Collier is strictly an inside player, which means that one of the Bruin posts is going to have to take him if Howland decides to play man-to-man defense. However, the Beavers start two 6'10" players and, although one of them is more of a perimeter player, asking one of the Bruin guards to take one of the 6'10" Beavers is a tall order (no pun intended). Collier shoots 63% from the floor and averages 5.1 RPG. He is also a good defender, with 25 blocks and 21 steals on the season.
The two 6'10" posts are junior Angus Brandt (242 lbs.) and freshman Eric Moreland(215 lbs.). Interestingly, Moreland is the inside threat while Brandt is a good outside threat (46% on threes). While it would seem that the roles should be reversed based on their respective weight, the reality is that OSU runs the Princeton-style offense and the center, in this case Brandt, handles the ball quite a bit in the high post looking for backdoor cutters and having open looks from the three-point line as the opposing defense sags to help on those cuts. Moreland deals with things in the low post and while he doesn't have the kind of girth to deal with UCLA's post players, he has become a relatively accomplished shot blocker, having 33 on the season. He's also shooting 53% from the floor.
If one of the two posts needs to be replaced by Robinson then he will certainly call on junior Joe Burton (6'7" 280 lbs.), who has given UCLA fits in the past when OSU has the ball. Burton leads the team in assists with 58 (again, because of the nature of the offense) and has been a solid 50% shooter, even going 3-6 on the season from behind the arc. He's also the leading rebounder for the Beavers at 6.2 RPG. He will play close to 30 minutes on Thursday, with Robinson inserting him for one of Brandt or Moreland, whoever isn't cutting it.
As good as they are offense they are terrible on defense. For those of you who try to analyze defense on statistics, Oregon State presents proof that individual statistics, such as blocks or steals, do not mean much. Oregon State leads the conferences in blocked shots and steals, yet is ranked between 10-12 in other categories like defensive rebounding, three and field goal defense, scoring defense, etc. Basically Oregon State is a team that gambles a lot on defense and pays for it. They are 1-5 for a reason in conference.
The Bruin Report Online preview says the game hedges on whether Ben Howland choses man-to-man defense or zone. Zone has given some problems to Oregon State. They could well be right and I am sure they have watched Oregon State more than me. But I think it will be interesting clash on the other side of the court. How will UCLA's offense, which does not make many make turnovers (least in Pac-12), fair against OSU's defense, which is predicated on making turnovers (most in Pac-12)?
For what it is worth I think OSU's hope is in Cunningham and fouls. While UCLA's is in the "UCLA Factor" and Ben Howland as a coach. In an article mentioned in Bruin Bites and by Kingsfalife the follow quote from Luc Richard Mbah a Moute is key (emphasis mine):
"What I think I learned under Coach Howland that pays off at this level is just how to get yourself on the floor," Mbah a Moute said. "I think most Howland guys can play defense and we learn how to be tough guys. If you're tough, you can deal with coaches yelling.
"And one other thing, when I first got to college I thought, 'Gosh, we have so many plays.' We were expected to know every small detail of every play or we wouldn't play. When I got to the NBA, I couldn't believe how many guys can't remember the plays."
After a slow start against USC (as UCLA always seems to start slow), the offense was destroying USC's good defense for a long run in the first half. It was not Josh Smith overpowering people or Zeek raining down threes, it was an offense running on all cylinders dismantling a good defense. It was fun to watch. Was this a fluke? We will know tonight. But I think CBH has a team that executes his offense well, low turnovers are one example. I think against OSU they will do well because of this execution.
I think UCLA will win because UCLA's players will run plays while the Oregon State's players will just try to run. Maybe I am over valuing coaching. OSU's talented Cunningham and home court did lead to their only conference win over a good Cal team, but I think CBH will out coach Robinson and UCLA players as a whole will out play the Pac-12's best player.
Go Bruins!
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Pounding the Beavers tonight right after we took the Trojans!
by cyberdbk on Jan 19, 2012 5:47 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Ralph Miller, Gary Payton, Steve Johnson, AC Green
As good or above average as UCLA was in the day, those guys (named above) made the trip to OSU a literal nightmare.
Today, the Bruins stiff defense will shave a few points off the usually free flowing Beaver offense!!!!
by TXBruin77 on Jan 19, 2012 7:45 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Ralph Miller would hate this OSU team
Those teams were highly structure discipline teams that were frustrating to play and made up for lacking talent 1-5 by playing such a disciplined way. This Oregon State team has some talent but tries to maximize it by speeding up the game. Ralph would hate that.
Even during Walton's senior year, his team lost to both Oregon & Oregon State on the road.
Ralph Miller’s team routinely wrought havoc on the Bruins when they traveled up north. Even at Pauley, Miller inflicted the worst on Larry Farmer’s teams, already teetering on the brink before UCLA mercifully sacked him.
Playing against a helpless UCLA team early in Harrick’s career at Westwood, Gary Payton obsessively ruminated with that loose mouthpiece in and out of him every time he scored against the bruins. It was the most disgusting, despicable memory I ever had of an Oregon State player, bar none.
He was lightning fast, penetrated well, and deadly with his jumpers from anywhere beyond the paint. Toying with some bruins a step too slow in guarding him, he spit that mouthpiece out, then held it back in and so forth every time he scored or made three point play, knowing full well the camera was on him. To me, it was sheer uncouth, beyond the pale if he thought it cute & celebratory.
Those were the nightmares. Hopefully, tonight we turn another chapter on our way to redemption & Shabazz.
I understand the skepticism of this team & Howland as a coach, as we speak. But really, UCLA
basketball skidded off the precipice after the three Final Fours & the saga of Dragovich. Nelson’s episode could happen elsewhere too. Smith’s obesity issue, odd as it is for someone playing center position in a major Division I program, can be remedied also over time. So let’s keep our fingers crossed they continue to play well. and peak towards the end of the season next month.
That was MY point.
They don’t have to win the conference title outright either to play in the Pac 12 tournament. Barring a miracle, I can’t see it happening overnight, when these players transformed themselves into those powerful teams of yesteryears. As long as they win well when they do, play utterly tough and make it insanely close even if they lose, things will turn out fine.
Larry Brown’s team was in total chaos, imminent collapse midseason when they righted the sinking ship, blasted their way into the Championship Final. This isn’t unprecedented. Just remember the consequences if doomsday happens. Loss of Shabazz & the recriminations, unsettling turmoils in search of a new coach is not what we want to see.
Let’s rise to the occasion.
Jared Cunningham
this is another great kid that howland whiffed on . . . if I had a dollar for every guy we passed on because we were shooting for 5* guys who never panned out for us I’d have . . . like 8 or 9 bucks
by charnaw on Jan 19, 2012 8:20 AM PST via Android app reply actions
updated thoughts on the team
Okay, we’re getting a second chance to “show up” on the road tonight. Thought I’d try to organize my impressions of the team.
5 – Josh is still a major project; I’m not that impressed even with a few decent games recently. Stover brings D, no O. T Wear brings O, no D.
4 – T Wear/D Wear: guys have skills on offense and discipline on defense. They can shoot the ball, feed the post, make their FTs and run sets. Although they will be challenged by mobile, athletic 4’s, they have a clear edge over Lane, who is a decent back-up
3 – Lamb: no consistent offensive game, evidence his performance against pretty bad sc team. His shot is still broken. He must have the most “bad miss J’s” on the team. Tyler’s defense is full of effort, but lacks discipline – often goes for the first fake and then we’re playing 4 on 5 as he takes himself out of the play. HIs rebounding has been good.
2 – Jones: our best offensive threat. Just have to grit our teeth accept that he’ll make one or two head down, blind drives into 2 or 3 defenders for turnover or charging call every game. In the meantime, he battles, he scores, he sets tough screens and seems to be improving at feeding the post (though again at least once every game he will look directly at Josh, open and defended by a smaller guy, and will NOT make the pass – aargh).
1 – Anderson: steady play at pg, not great. His outside J is under-rated.
2,3 back-up: Powell remains inconsistent on offense, but rebounds and plays D really well. He works amazingly hard on D, showing impressive quicks. His D has kept his minutes solidly in the 20’s despite not shooting very well and the expected freshman mistakes.
Man vs Zone: Our overall lack of speed and quickness hurts both types of D. Howland says our Man is improved – better rotations, bumping cutters, etc, etc. Let’s see if that all happens against this week’s competition. I hope he mixes some Zone.
Lamb and Powell
Lamb is the biggest surprise this year. He has been a disappointment on defense, he is not the stopper. CBH mentioned he will have Lamb cover Cunningham and Jones some as well. That troubles me but it is a reality that Jones is the best offensive and maybe best defensive M2M defender. I think we may very well NEED zone tonight.
On offense Lamb is shooting 49% from 2. He is still inconsistent but he is better going to the hoop as he is 30% from three.
I really think Powell is a better defender than Lamb. He is more athletic which also helps with mistakes. He is a better rebounder despite the fact he has played many minutes at the 2 while Lamb only plays the three.
On offense Powell shoots slightly better from three and slightly worse from 2 then Lamb. But Powell has a pull up jumper which Lamb does not have.
I think it would be bad for team chemistry to switch but Powell should be getting more of Lamb’s minutes.
Agree on Powell.
I actually originally wrote: Lamb is a big problem. But I thought that might be too severe. However, Tyler plays upwards of 30-35 minutes a game and his poor shooting, including even FTs at times, and problematic D is “on the floor” a lot given those minutes.
But I think that I agree with you that there is some downside for making a big cut into Lamb’s minutes with Powell – but you can get more Powell minutes by taking from Jerime, Zeke and Tyler. in theory, it’s 4 guys for 3 positions or 120 minutes. Doesn’t that mean you could go 30 each?
Let’s see how Howland responds to the pressure of a tough road trip. Will he stubbornly stick with Man D and not even mix in a little zone, will he play zeke 38 minutes a game, will he be less patient with Fr Powell, will he waste Stover on the bench? It’ll be very interesting.
30-30-30-30 Drives me crazy
It never works in reality. Zeek is going to get 35-38 in a close game. In the 2 PAC 12 close games (less than 10 margin) Anderson played 35 and 33. Thus so right there Powell is down in the teens for a close game even if he plays 10 for Lamb. Not enough. I think Powell needs to play more for Lamb period.
I wouldn't want 30-30-30-30
I like the luxury of 2 experienced ball handlers on the court at the same time, so Zeek and Jerime should get more than 30 each – though they might not, given fouls. I agree Powell should get 20+ each game; a few nice things about having him play slightly fewer minutes are that it enables him to play at 100% for the minutes he’s on the court (which can compensate for some rawness), and potentially means he can focus on a slightly narrower playbook of set plays. With an extra year in the system, Lamb ought to be more adaptable to all situations he might find himself in, on both ends of the court.
This is just to say: I think Powell looks the better player one-on-one at the moment, but some of Lamb’s contributions as part of the machine on offense and defense might be slightly overlooked. Either way, it’s good to have two guys pushing each other.
by VeniceBruin on Jan 19, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Howland has used Stover perfectly this season
When the defensive pressure lets up Howland brings Stover in. When a big guy goes off for a couple easy baskets, enter Stover. When energy is at its lowest, yep, Stover. I wouldn’t classify Howland waisting Stover on the bench. Let’s not forget when Stover is on the court, he is an offensive liability.
by Waitingfornumber12 on Jan 19, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
So was LRMAM in a way
but he could get away with it because there were other playmakers on offense, and most of all he knew how to run the plays really well. Stover should get more playing time.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
totally different
I think you should watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt0VUSyVIr4
and ask whether you think Stover could have played the role of Hollins with the 2 clutch FTs or the role of LRMAM with the taking of Farmar’s pass and finish.
Luc was fine as a finisher, was an elite offensive rebounder, and could put the ball on the floor if necessary (or pass). Stover cannot reliably take a pass on the break or do much of anything offensively beyond dunking.
Unless you meant LM-R rather than LRMAM? In which case, I think the comparison is much more apt, but Lorenzo’s screen-setting was a much more useful part of the offense than anything Stover does on that end.
Hollins may well be the reason he should get more PT
Hollins was better known as one half of Fellins for 3 1/2 years. It took roughly a dozen games in his senior year for him to go from disappointment to draft pick. Maybe he gets there faster if he wasn’t splitting time with Fey.
In today's program
AA and JF would be loitering on the bench backing Jones and Anderson.
by Nestor on Jan 19, 2012 4:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
What I meant by "wasting" is
to not trust him in a tight, tough road game. I’m pretty good with Stove’s minutes lately, except I “think” he doesn’t get many 2nd half minutes. Just an impression – may be totally wrong on that.
by mplsbruin on Jan 19, 2012 2:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Honest question
Would you trust Stove in the final 8 minutes of a tough road game? Not sure I would if I was the coach.
by Waitingfornumber12 on Jan 19, 2012 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
Trusting a defensive oriented player
It was not an issue for Howland in his first 5 years when guys like PAA and LMR help form the core of Ben Ball Warriors. Getting away from that mindset has made Howland’s seat hot at UCLA. His failure to bring along guys like Stover and trust his defensive instincts is one of the reason the state the program is in today.
by Nestor on Jan 19, 2012 4:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Correct
I’m not saying you don’t play Stover, but I don’t think he should be getting 20 minutes a game until he can catch the ball in transition. He has made improvements from last year and will continue to do so. Stover will continue to improve and will be a decent player when his time is up. That being said, do you force more minutes on him now when better options are on the bench?
by Waitingfornumber12 on Jan 19, 2012 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Powell
That being said, Howland should be playing Powell more minutes because IMO he is a better all around player than Lamb.
by Waitingfornumber12 on Jan 19, 2012 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you, but
there’s a delicate issue, I think, where Lamb is being a good mentor for Norman who has honestly had a bunch of real nervous games. For now, things might be okay as long as Norman gets enough PT to be kept happy. The last thing we want is another transfer!!!
PAA was averaging 17.7 mins a game in his second year
LMR was averaging over 14 mins a game in his second year. Both of them were true sophomores. There is no reason Stover should be getting less than 9 mins a game in this soft team this year.
How about doing an off / def substitution w/Josh or T Wear?
I worry about FTs with Anthony. Though he HAS ditched the headband!
;-)
You want the experience in the game in crunch time ...
… and if Zeek & Jerime had more rest, they would perform better under the pressure of the final minutes. Maybe one of them hit’s the last second shot against Stanford and we get a road split. I get that Howland values experience, but I don’t get that he doesn’t value the difference between a reasonably rested senior versus one without.
Hmm
That talent is tempered by an Oregon State coach whose greatest accomplishment remains his sister’s marriage.
Wish I had something to argue there, but looking at the record, I’m coming up empty.
Er… CBI championship and a .500 year? :-/
[/cry]
Scotty what do you think?
I see a team with some good pieces (or great in Cunningham case) but they seem to underachieve.
Also, I how is Gill vs. the old stadium? As a road team I like Gill better but only been there once.
Good question
Everything looked bright in the out-of-conference games, but when the Pac hit things went sour. The 4-OT Stanford loss really hurt the team, I think. Emotionally and physically draining. That might have made the difference in the OT loss at Arizona that followed, and then those combined for the otherwise inexplicable 10 point loss to Arizona State.
On the other hand, the team beat Cal by 7, so they have good things in them.
I haven’t been to any bball games in person, so I can’t compare the stadiums.

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