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Tourney Results: Comparing UCLA to Elite Programs

I've been inspired by gbruin's excellent post Reason and Consistency. I believe it is a discussion that was far too important to fall to the side. While we are all pretty excited by the good news coming out of the Football program; it seems many have forgotten just how inept our Athletic Department really is, or just how apathetic our school administration is.

gbruin's post (and KSBruin's which preceded and inspired it) have examined 'if Ben Howland deserved to stay on as coach of UCLA Men's Basketball. It is a worthy discussion and worth thinking about.

I want to take a look further up the totem pole and look at those responsible for hiring our coaches, and more importantly, setting the standard our coaches must strive for. Let me rephrase that. Coach Wooden set the standard when he won 10 National Championship between 1963 and 1975. Just to re-iterate, no one is expecting us to win back to back to back National Championships. We do have a certain standard to maintain however, and I believe that includes winning the occasional Championship that necessarily comes with maintaining a high standard of competition. Do the leaders of our university feel the need to maintain that high standard of competition?

The results of my study would suggest, No. Numbers and charts after the jump.

Star-divide

I began my analysis by charting the tournament results since 1984-85 for the following Traditional Basketball Powers: Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, UConn, and Indiana. I chose the 84-85 season since it was the year the tournament expanded to 64 teams. I considered analyzing results dating back to the end of Coach's run, but the thought of assigning values to a tournament field of 16 or 32 teams that would equate to today's tournament simply made my head hurt.

Many will argue if the last two deserve to be in there, but gbruin mentioned UConn, so I included them. Indiana, of course is one of the Old School basketball powers, so I felt justified including them. For the purpose of my analysis, I assigned a numerical value for Tournament results in any given year. They are as follows:

6790781561_3f938035a0_m_medium

(I assigned a value of 1 for an NIT appearance, no matter how far in the NIT a team got. I reasoned that postseason play should have some value meanwhile recognizing that an NIT championship is not as highly regarded as actually playing in the tournament.)

I checked team by team season by season results on Wikipedia and got the following results.

6790836591_0c7b7d352e_medium

You can see that in 1995 we won the National Championship, while North Carolina got to the Final Four; Kentucky and UConn got to the Elite 8; Kansas made it to the Sweet 16; Indiana was in the tournament; and Duke was a no show. I then averaged out yearly results, which you can see at the bottom. Duke led the field averaging a Sweet Sixteen berth and closer to an Elite 8. UNC and Kansas also averaged a Sweet Sixteen, while Kentucky, UCLA, and Uconn averaged a 2nd round showing. However if you look closely, Kentucky is closer to averaging a Sweet Sixteen than Duke is to averaging an Elite 8. We are firmly entrenched in the lowest tier with UConn and Indiana. Personally I find this an ignominious state for the school with the most National Championships of any.

These averages coincide almost perfectly with the amount of National Championships a school has won in this time frame. The anomaly being UConn.

6790919549_dbbea5404a_m_medium

Finally I tallied up the amount of no shows for this time frame. Once again the results align almost perfectly, and once again UConn is the lone anomaly.

6790953447_1876795e5f_m_medium

One final data point, the number of coaches each school as gone through in that time.

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Now for the ever important interpretation of all this data. The first thing that struck was the Uconn Anomaly. They simply do not behave as the model predicts. Duke and UNC are tournament fixtures with deep runs being the average not the exception. Coincidentally they each have won the most NCs in the modern era. UConn however, has just as many NCs, with by far the most amount of No Shows of all the schools I analyzed above. The one correlation I could find was that both Duke and UConn have each had the same coach for the whole time. (Actually, Dominic Perno coached UConn for the first 2 years of the modern era. But since 1986 it has been Jim Calhoun the whole time.) What this tells me is that there is something to be said for picking a horse and sticking with him. This bodes well for Ben Howland.

However, North Carolina, Kansas and Kentucky have changed coaches as much as we have. Kansas being the exception they have had 3 coaches to our 4 in this time frame. The other big difference has been that they have won multiple National Championship with their multitude of coaches while we have only managed the one. (UNC=3, Kansas=2, Kentucky=2) Since this takes into account a period of time largely before the Ben Howland era began, this does not bode well for our leaders. Roy Williams for example coached at both Kansas and North Carolina; he has been associated with deep tournament runs while at Kansas, and has won 2 National Championships at UNC. Clearly these schools went after the best coaches they could.

Also of interest is the fact that North Carolina flopped around and experimented with Bill Guthridge and Matt Doherty before going after Roy Williams. So, like ourselves, they have also experimented with hires out of their own family and hoped it would work, just like we did. The difference being that they had tried hiring Roy Williams before being turned down and settling on Matt Doherty. The tenure of Bill Guthridge and Matt Doherty were short lived, however, which suggests to me that the administration was able to identify a coach that was not getting the job done quickly and move on. That is leadership: identifying a problem and acting decisively.

This is what made me think our problem goes beyond Dan Guerror's obvious incompetence. Lavin was hired before he came aboard. Our problem is one that has existed for some time. This made me go back and analyze our coaches along this same metric.

6791418715_286a9a78cc_m_medium

I think we all agree that Walt Hazzard was a better coach than Steve Sixteen. But, he is the one the admin was willing to pull quickly. Huge mistake. It's interesting to me that Harrick and Howland have identical averages. Except Harrick had a National Championship, and Howland coached in one. The other difference? Harrick never had a no show. Sure, he got booted in the first round a few times, but he never failed to make the tournament. Once again, and others may disagree, I think firing Jim Harrick was one of the worst mistakes UCLA has ever made. One year removed from winning a National Championship, and he is fired for buying recruits and players a lobster dinner. At Southern Cal this would have been dismissed as an honest mistake and they would have donated something to charity to appease the NCAA and they would have walked away with a wrist slap. I've heard it said that Jim Harrick was actually fired for butting heads with the administration. If this is true, it just underscores that they do not have nor have ever had their heads in the right place. None of the other schools have shown as bone headed a move as firing a NC winning coach or hiring a Lavin type replacement for that matter.

Where does this leave us? Analyzing all the results, I came away with two convictions: UCLA's malaise is institutional. It transcends tenures. It allows for people like Jim Harrick and Walt Hazzard to be fired, and it allows for people like Steven Lavin and Dan Guerrero to be hired. People like Walt Hazzard are shown the door immediately, while Lizards and Donuts are given long tenures and golden parachutes.

The other thing conviction I came away with is that we would be better served to be patient with Ben Howland. I charted coaches with National Championships from my study and tracked how many years it took for them to win a NC as well as the amount of No Shows (This includes NIT appearances) each coach has had after their first appearance in The Tournament.

6791652333_e4e4c8b532_m_medium

The time it has taken him is not so far out of the ordinary. However, the number of no shows is right up there with the longest tenured coaches such as Dean Smith and Jim Calhoun. Of course, these guys have multiple NCs to their names. The question Bruins should be asking themselves is a Uconn kind of run acceptable? Probably not. Multiple Championships are nice, but I still think an elite program should have more NCs than no shows in any given period. That being said, is a M Krzyzewski type run likely? Probably not. His is the closest tenure to that of our own Coach Wooden. This is once in a lifetime kind of expectations. Where do we draw the line?

I would give Howland a short leash and focus on cleaning up the cancer that has infiltrated so deeply within our beloved university. Howland should feel some pressure to perform. That is the only way he will seek to improve. Krzyzewski has stated it was the pressure to beat UNC and Dean Smith that led him to develop his system for winning. Dean Smith has said it was seeing himself burned in effigy by protesting students after a particularly disappointing defeat that led him to develop the 4 corner offense.

So, Coach Howland, if you don't mind me saying so: get your head out of your ass and overcome your hang ups with playing underclassmen. Defense wins championships, but offense fills seats. Your boss is not your friend; it's OK to call him out for his bullshit such as betraying the students by taking their seats or sentencing you to a season in a hellish arena. And for the love of God, stop playing favorites. Especially when your favorites such as Nikola Dragovic and Josh Smith are going to get you fired for under-performing and therefore taking the team with them. Cowboy up, and if that dog don't hunt; shoot it.

[Update] ~ I'm such a dumbass. The one big thing I went into this analysis was to make this singular point: Are we justified in demanding a more competitive Basketball Program? My answer is yes. Over the last 27 years Duke, UNC, and UConn have each won 3 National Championships. That averages out to once every 9 years. Yes, Duke and UConn have been led by one man, but UNC proves you can win on the same average having gone through a number of coaches as we have. Kansas and Kentucky have each one 2 over 27 years which averages out to once every 13.5 years. Meanwhile, it was 20 years between Coach's last Championship and the 1995 Championship Jim Harrick brought to Westwood. We are now 4 years from making it yet another 20 years. We know we aren't going to win one this year. IF and that's a mighty big if, Shabazz comes to Westwood, we might have a shot at next year, but even if he came there is no guarantee.

Once every 20 years is simply not acceptable. Before looking at the numbers, I would have said, once every ten years is acceptable. I was blown away when I realized we might go 20 between Championships. For every Morgan Center apologist that cries out we are not in the same league as Duke; keep in mind UNC a public school, has done the same while moving coaches, and UConn has done it while missing out on the tournament altogether a staggering 13 times. Neither of those 3 schools is in as big a talent pool as Los Angeles.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Good analysis.

I agree that Harrick got a raw deal. He did have issues later in his career, though . . .

by orlandobruin on Jan 30, 2012 2:45 PM PST reply actions  

Love the analysis.

But I don’t think I would put Josh Smith in the same damning sentence with Dragovic.

by chrissorr on Jan 30, 2012 4:58 PM PST reply actions  

I wouldn't either, but he is an example of a player that would have been benched just about anywhere else in this country.

Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi

by MexiBruin on Jan 30, 2012 5:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree.

I don’t want to hijack your post. Maybe I can take this next question to a post, but I would love to find out what the community thinks about Josh Smith vs. the Alternative Center, mainly Stover (with T.Wear and B. Lane mixed in). From what I’ve read, I think 50% say that although we are extremely disappointed, there is no choice but Smith and Stover should stick to volleyball (but he’s a great kid), and 50% would say to hell with Smith and go with the energy of Stover.

by chrissorr on Jan 30, 2012 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

We would be better served to stick with Howland

until doughnut dan is gone. But then I think it is time to move on because of the product he is putting on the court. Maybe he gets a championship in year 21 but I cant stand to see this crap he is giving us, such as losses to Mid Tenn. and transfers like Mike Moser

by WoodenMania on Jan 30, 2012 5:16 PM PST reply actions  

Great post though Mexi

Now I am going back to being in a good mood over our football program

by WoodenMania on Jan 30, 2012 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

That's an incredible amount of research...

and on a rather topical subject.

If not for Calhoun, the conclusion would be clear.

But, he exists and makes the conclusion, well, clear…There is no formula for winning NCs consistently.

I would be curious if the scale were weighted so that the deeper a team goes in the dance, the more points it would get. Say 1,2,4,8,16 etc. I say this because it seems to me that each round gets progressively more difficult to achieve.

Lastly, congrats on not one contraction error. C’mon, just kidding.

by kevb75 on Jan 30, 2012 5:56 PM PST reply actions  

The reason isn't Calhoun

The reason for UConn’s anomaly is not Calhoun but the Big East. That conference does itself no favors when it comes to the tournament. The schedule is brutal so the Big East teams don’t necessarily get the top seeds (though ey often get over seeded). Getting a top seed is the key to winning the tournament.

The other trend you can see at programs like Duke and UNC is the cycle of improvement that seemingly coincides with seniors on the program. Getting your players to stick around is another key to winning the tournament.

Awesome post Mexi, big time rec.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jan 30, 2012 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Calhoun was a huge enigma to me.

I’m sure Tasser is right in regards to the Big East.

But, I also think it’s (see what I did there?) a question of experience. This is a guy that is not going to beat himself as we’ve seen for ourselves Howland do. I think Izzo belongs in this conversation. When he has the right group of guys he is going to milk all the performance possible out of that group. They recognize a hot hand. They know when to attack a certain weakness in the opposition and when to save it for a crucial possession.

Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi

by MexiBruin on Jan 30, 2012 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know that you can ever really demand championships

Unless your team is by far the best in the country, you’re much more likely to come up short than actually win the whole thing. Unless you’re John Wooden, national championships years are quite literally exceptional seasons. The best you can really do is put the program in contention on a consistent basis and hope that with enough chances you can eventually strike gold. It’s a problem if the team isn’t contending, but if it is, a coaching change is unlikely to improve things.

Dean Smith is an example of this. He coached at UNC for 36 years and won 2 national championships (1 every 18 years). It’s possible that without two of the most famous mistakes in basketball history (the Fred Smith pass to James Worthy and Chris Webber’s timeout) he might not have won a single championship. But he also took them to 11 Final Four’s and is remembered as one of the best basketball coaches of all time. Even at only one every 18 years, UNC fans love him.

Another point about the frequency analysis – while 1985 makes sense as a cutoff when you’re averaging yearly results, it does weird things to the frequency measure. For example, Kansas has won 2 championships in the last 27 years. This looks like 13.5 years per championship, but they’ve actually only 3 total, and the two gaps were 36 and 20 years respectively. Kentucky won in ’96 and ’98, but they had gaps of 18 and 20 years before that and are now at 13 years without a championship.

by bjgreen77 on Jan 30, 2012 7:08 PM PST reply actions  

You make some good points vis a vis Dean Smith and Kentucky

But, in the case of Dean Smith, he is largely the guy that built that program. Like John Wooden or Mike Krzyzewski, it took time to get the ball up and rolling to championship caliber. And like our Coach Wooden, his championships came at the tail end of his career. I consider these men the exceptions in that if Mike Krzyzewski suddenly had a few down years, it is unlikely they could change coaches.

If Dean Smith were to coach UNC today, and only bring them a championship once every 18 years, he would not last long. Look at what happened to John Robinson in his second stint at the U of Sanctioned cheaters.

As for Kentucky, yes, they tolerated Tubby Smith a bit longer than expected, but they cut Billy Gillespie right away. Now they have an elite 8 and a Final Four under Calimari. They are trending in the right direction while we are trending in the wrong direction.

Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi

by MexiBruin on Jan 31, 2012 9:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you need to leave Calimari out of any discussion

It is one thing to talk about championship caliber coaches, but it is another thing altogether to talk about guys like Calimari (and Cheatie Petie.) Their cheating goes beyond anything anyone has ever seen before. If a coach is going to blatantly cheat, then he should be held to a national championship or get out of town standard. He’ll be heading out of town anyway, before the sanctions hit.

by Fox 71 on Jan 31, 2012 9:10 AM PST up reply actions  

This is a great post!!

I just don’t see a moment where Howland achieves clarity and ditches his stubbornness and the other blind spots that have crippled his program. OTOH, just because we get rid of him doesn’t mean that things are suddenly going to get better. It’s a conundrum. But at the end of the day, in my opinion, BOTH the UCLA culture and the coach need to change in order for us to return to elite status. Failing that, I believe that we will continue to revert to the mean in a macro time frame (that’s all the number jargon I know).

by waters96 on Jan 31, 2012 10:11 AM PST reply actions  

That's the thing with Epiphanies.

You can’t really predict how or when they will strike. You also can’t force one on someone. I agree Howland does not show signs of improving dramatically any time soon. But epiphany like lightning, can strike at any time.

I agree with WoodenMania and others who have said, “Guerror goes first; before we even think of replacing Howland.”

Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi

by MexiBruin on Jan 31, 2012 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I respect your hopefulness. And the intelligence of your post.

I’m just tired of what we’ve seen the last few years and would like to move on.

by waters96 on Jan 31, 2012 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting Data, but dissenting voice on the conclusion

MexiBruin-
This is very thorough. This kind of analysis is what sets BN apart from other sources.
However, there is one trend I picked out which disturbs me, and reinforces why I voted “oust” in the Ben Howland poll.
I looked through the year by year results for each of Duke, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky. I left out UConn because despite some success, I don’t think of them as a storied program. That is arbitrary, I know. I also left out Indiana because I think of them as a “used to be great” but not now program, as the numbers show.
Since our last year with a 5 score (final 4), we have a cumulative 4 score over the following 3 seasons.
That low a cumulative score following a 5 happened once to Duke 1995-1997. 1995 was when Coach K had to step down for health reasons, and the program had a down year. But when he was back full time, even though they got bounced early in the NCAA’s, they were league champions, including 32 wins in 1997.
That low a cumulative score following a 5 also happened once to UNC 2001-2004. As has been chronicled, this was the era of Matt Doherty, and has not happened since.
That low a cumulative score following a 5 has never happened at Kansas or Kentucky.
So it seems like there were extenuating circumstances at the 2 other storied programs- Duke and UNC- health issues in one case, incompetent coach in the other.
I don’t see similar extenuating circumstances at UCLA. The wheels have come off, and this is not due to Howland having to be taking a break (Duke) or being a new coach (UNC). Since the final 4 in 2008, we have not won the conference or gone deep in the tourney.
I fear that without change at the top, we will fit the Indiana pattern. I really hope I am wrong, but I just don’t see how Howland is going to take the necessary steps to turn the program around. If he knows the necessary steps, why didn’t he take them already?
Again, just my opinion, and thanks for a really informative post.

by islandbruin on Jan 31, 2012 3:15 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

WoW. Now that's extrapolation folks!

Island, the floor is yours! That is very damning trend. You did a great job (and one upped me) of taking cold hard facts, and made a great case for your position.

Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi

by MexiBruin on Jan 31, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

And as for you as well

Excellent argument; this takes what I had been thinking and puts actual data with it. Well done.

This kind of analysis is what sets BN apart from other sources.
Indeed.

Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.

by KSBruin on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously

It’s not like it’s 2009 and we’re mad that Howland only took us to the 2nd round. It’s the FOURTH year of completely mediocre basketball by UCLA standards, and somehow people keep coming up with excuses for each year.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Feb 1, 2012 7:33 AM PST up reply actions  

If there's one thing sitting through the Dorrell and Neuheisel eras has taught me

It’s that for every terrible performance, there’s ALWAYS someone to make excuses for it. Always. That’s why I’m not listening to that nonsense when it comes to Mora and Howland. You can see the preemptive excuse machine starting up. “B-b-but Seattle is a difficult place for us to play!” “B-b-but Recruiting!” Enough.

by Tydides on Feb 1, 2012 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Great work, MexiBruin. Much grist for the Bruin mill.

As kevb mentions above, a point system that recognized the depth of an NCAA run would put UCLA even farther into a second tier during this period. As is, the value of lasting until the fourth round (second round of sweet sixteen) versus going out in the first is the same as winning the championship versus going out in the third round (first round of sweet sixteen). The multiple championships won by Duke, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky during this period would elevate their first-tier score even higher over the second-tier.

Awesome, thought-provoking work, Mexi. Thank you.

As for me, my feelings about Howland’s staying are the same as a poster said a while back. I believe it might have been IE Angel, but I could be wrong. In essence, he said I don’t want Guerrero picking another HC more than I don’t want Howland coaching another season.

by Bruinut on Feb 1, 2012 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

Awesome analysis. But, umm, talk about sapping the rah-rah spirit. (Just sayin)

Mexi says…

Once again, and others may disagree, I think firing Jim Harrick was one of the worst mistakes UCLA has ever made. One year removed from winning a National Championship, and he is fired for buying recruits and players a lobster dinner. At Southern Cal this would have been dismissed as an honest mistake and they would have donated something to charity to appease the NCAA and they would have walked away with a wrist slap.

This is sooo true.
And proof positive to me that Basketball Championships are just not a priority of the school administration, as I had previously had assumed it was. No, sir. That was the man, John Wooden.

Island says…

The wheels have come off, and this is not due to Howland having to be taking a break (Duke) or being a new coach (UNC). Since the final 4 in 2008, we have not won the conference or gone deep in the tourney. I fear that without change at the top, we will fit the Indiana pattern.

Precisely. The wheels have indeed come off.

I love this board. But…
Being forced, as it were, to look at hard facts… and not just the emotion I’ve been running on, forever, when it comes to UCLA Basketball… we’re just not the school, I thought we were. In the words of BB King, “the thrill is gone”. (At least my thrill). I’m not sure I like being sober, having now been bombarded by sobering facts. Where’s the fun? This type of analysis… while exicting to the analytical mind… well, let’s just say, it does not sell tickets. Fanaticals (fans) are not supposed to think this much. Maybe, I’ll feel better when we’re back to winning on the regular. I dunno. This space (BN) has a huge audience. I Can’t Be The Only One Who Has Been Made To Not Care As Much Anymore.

U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins! Go Lakers! Go Dodgers! Go Angels!
Ben Howland empties my passion bucket for UCLA Basketball, and I resent it.

by Bruins78 on Feb 1, 2012 9:06 PM PST reply actions  

78, you're confusing cause and effect.

BN has not sapped your or anyone’s spirit. The incompetent administration which has allowed our two revenue-generating sports to become irrelevant has sapped your spirit. This thread makes the case for the removal of a coach who we all respect, but who is not performing at the level that should allow him to retain a multi-million dollar job.

Coach Howland is surely a good coach. He is a far better coach than the guy he replaced. But he is not a great coach, and we need a great coach to return UCLA to elite status. It cannot be denied that Coach Howland and every man, woman and child who has a drop of Bruin blood in his or her veins is suffering under the worst athletic leadership that our school has ever known, but that is not an excuse. Other Bruin teams are doing well in spite of Guerrerror.

I think this post, and the analyses done by Mexi and Island should seal the fate of Coach Howland. He should be fired now. I don’t mean after the season, either. But, of course, we know that will not happen, because we have the Great Fraud as our athletic director. And that’s the reason you feel your passion dissapating, 78. You appear to be blaming the messenger. This makes me think of one of my favorite bits from one of my favorite plays, Henry V (or as we cleverly put it, Hank the Cinque.) This is the part where the Ambassador from France comes to Henry with a message just after Henry has decided that he is the rightful king of France and has made up his mind to invade.

First Ambassador
May’t please your majesty to give us leave
Freely to render what we have in charge;
Or shall we sparingly show you far off
The Dauphin’s meaning and our embassy?

KING HENRY V
We are no tyrant, but a Christian king;
Unto whose grace our passion is as subject
As are our wretches fetter’d in our prisons:
Therefore with frank and with uncurbed plainness
Tell us the Dauphin’s mind.

Mexi and Island have laid out the state of Bruin basketball with frank and uncurbed plainness. They should not be chastised for it, but thanked.

by Fox 71 on Feb 2, 2012 6:32 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not really intending to blame the messenger. The messenger(s) are great.

What I’m saying is that… upon further, thourough, analytical review… things are not always what I’ve imagined in my mind. If anything, the messengers have roundly pointed out to me (not just this post, but a boat load of others) the folly of my “fanatic” thinking. I was a man of “message board” ilk, and “talk-show banter”. It was fun. I loved it. BN has gotten me to wise-up, as it were.

I feel I’m rambling a bit. I’d mostly looked at UCLA Basketball with starry-eyes through rose colored glasses. Today… I see clearly now, but instead of the rain being gone… I see every obstacle in our way! lol. It’s gonna be a dark, dark, dreary dark day, until there are fundamental changes from on high. Credit to BN for making me see the more intelligent approach light. Go Bruins. Change Leadership in Morgan Center and Murphy Hall.

U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins! Go Lakers! Go Dodgers! Go Angels!
Ben Howland empties my passion bucket for UCLA Basketball, and I resent it.

by Bruins78 on Feb 2, 2012 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

it's the other way around, my friend

we’re showing you WHY your thrill is gone, we’re not the one taking it away from you. Even without us, you had this feeling down in your gut that something was rotten in Bruin basketball. We’re just the doctor showing you the disease. Our goal is to get rid of the disease, not to make you feel worse!

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Feb 2, 2012 8:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Right on. I dig that!

U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins! Go Lakers! Go Dodgers! Go Angels!
Ben Howland empties my passion bucket for UCLA Basketball, and I resent it.

by Bruins78 on Feb 2, 2012 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Awesome. Thanks.

Wow. What a handy chart. Did you compile this? Major kudos.

U-C-L-A Fight, Fight, Fight! Go Bruins! Go Lakers! Go Dodgers! Go Angels!
Ben Howland empties my passion bucket for UCLA Basketball, and I resent it.

by Bruins78 on Feb 2, 2012 7:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought Jim Harrick was like our version of Calipari

If we didn’t fire him, it would only be a matter of time before we started seeing vacated titles, final fours, etc.

by notaznguy on Feb 4, 2012 8:12 PM PST reply actions  

I thought so too at one time.

But, I also think he resorted to underhanded practices once he left UCLA because he did not have a built in recruiting advantage at Rhode Island or Georgia.

Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi

by MexiBruin on Feb 5, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think so

Calipari got prostitutes for his recruits.

Harrick lied about an expense account. That’s not a NCAA violation, that’s just lying to your boss which usually gets you fired almost anywhere.

ps: in Georgia, I believe it was his son (who was on the staff) who taught a class full of basketball players and had the most ridiculous final exam ever.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Feb 6, 2012 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Great post and comments

I would also like to see a logarithmic scale applied to the data and see what the results would yield. As others have suggested, it most likely would highlight the problems this analysis reveals even more, but it would be interesting to see if we learn anything more.

former editor, DumpDorrell.com ... formerly posted as DumpDorrell

by BruinCore on Feb 9, 2012 8:50 PM PST reply actions  

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