POLL: Should Mora Consider Ken Norton, Jr. for UCLA's DC?
by BrendonBruin on Jan 9, 2012 8:00 AM PST
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PrintThe front pagers apparently believe that Ken Norton, Jr., should be considered as a candidate for defensive coordinator, despite his lengthy ties to Cheatey Petey and his inflammatory conduct in 2008.
How does Bruinsnation feel about Ken Norton, Jr. for DC?
Nestor suggested I create this poll via a fanpost. So I have done so. I solicit every Bruin's opinion.
So, please give us your opinion in the poll and embellish that opinion, if you so desire, in the comments section.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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I don't hold grudges.
IIRC Norton was rejected by Dorell and then was hired by SUC. He did a great job as far as I know at SUC. He has never been personally implicated in any wrongdoing. He was a great Bruin and a great NFL player.
I don’t believe in guilt by association. We were his first choice. Who are we to demand he apologize for anything?
If Mora wants him, I’m good with it.
by uclahy on Jan 7, 2012 7:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Wait...
Wasn’t this the guy that said “you’re a bruin for 4 years but a trojan for life”?
by UCL@ on Jan 7, 2012 8:00 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Wait...
Wasn’t this guy coaching at just$c* when they were cheating and (a) did not call out the coach, (b) did not resign in protest and © did nothing and reveled in the glory of being perceived as a great coach because he was already coaching professional athletes?
Until he comes clean about the cheating, there is no way that he should be allowed to be on our coaching staff. I see no room for debate. Would anyone have Cheatie Petie on the coaching staff? In terms of knowledge of the cheating, everyone on the staff is the same as Cheatie Petie, and that includes the Omelet Manager, as far as I’m concerned.
Consideration of the boxer’s son as a coach makes cheating an issue: Will UCLA hire a cheater as long as he’s a good coach? If anyone thinks that’s not the issue with the boxer’s son, or with Rocky Seto, or with the Omelet Manager, please explain why. Do not use Coach Chow as an example. I thought he was a great hire because he was a great coach, and am ashamed to say I looked past the cheating. Well, no more. I don’t care what a guy’s credentials are. I want no cheaters at my school. Any candidate the embraced the cheating across town has got to make a clean breast of things before I would consider hiring him.
I remember the vitriol expressed here in 2008 at Norton Jr., so I am surprised by the turn around. I agree with Fox 71.
But I also think that beyond the cheating Norton Jr. went out of his way to be abusive towards UCLA, above and beyond the call of duty for someone associated with u$C.
The school that was honored to have Coach should not be considered a haven for cheaters.
Yeah, not feeling this as a hire unless some serious goodwill is shown.
As said before, you can’t take back his actions in 2008…
I know I do not comment on BN a lot but....
I think holding a grudge against Norton is petty. Plain and simple the proof is in the pudding, this guy coached an elite linebacking corps at Southern Cal. I know there is extreme vitriol held by this community, myself included with regards to the program across town, but they had an incredible run and Nortons LB’s were a part of it. The guy can recruit, and from the looks of how Clay Mathews went from walk on to an all pro he can coach too. Say what you will about $c and Petey but I rarely saw their players not show up for a game, especially their defense. Imagine what Akeem Ayers would have looked like last year if he played like he cared.
ummmm, Clay Mathews blew up like an inflated balloon.
And was tested positive for Steroids upon entering ‘The League.’ Not sure coaching had anything to do with it.
Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. ~ Vince Lombardi
Both
Matthews was 160 when he came to U$C as a walk-on and now he’s at around 260 (suspicious). Cushing came to $C as a flabby kid from Jersey and left looking like Jose Canseco.
Dump Dan!
by bruinclassof10 on Jan 9, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
I see
No surprise either way. Cushing…yeah…
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
LOL I'm suuuure he's clean and so is Manny
The before picture of Cushing is more frightening than the after. Here’s another before…
Dump Dan!
by bruinclassof10 on Jan 10, 2012 12:06 AM PST up reply actions
Who should take the first step?
If Ken Norton has a spark or flame burning for his alma mater, then yes he should be considered. He was a Bruin who asked for a job from an idiot who should have never been our head coach. How would anyone of us felt being rejected by the university that you had given your blood and sweat on the playing field. Perhaps he knew everything to know about Dorell and that made the rejection that much worse.
As far as I’m concerned we (UCLA) need to be the bigger person here. Does anyone have any shred of evidence that Ken Norton cheated, knew of cheating.
We don't know for sure, of course. Only Norton Jr. Does.
But cheating at u$C was endemic. They got sanctioned in part for lack of institutional controls.
by BrendonBruin on Jan 7, 2012 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
It's not our burden of proof, Ray
The burden of proof on the cheating issue must be on those from the school which has been found guilty of cheating. The boxer’s son hasn’t denied anything. He hasn’t said anything at all. Let’s start with a press conference with real questioners in the crowd. Subject: Cheating. Question for Mr. Norton (and this is an easy one): “What did you know and when did you know it?”
Then it would get harder. What about cars, Mr. Norton? What kind of cars did the linebackers drive? How about the real stars of the team? McKnight’s SUV, for example. Explain how you could not possibly have ever seen what cars the athletes were driving.
A little harder one: Don’t you think it’s every coach’s responsibility to make sure that there is no cheating at all by any athlete?What did you do to make sure that none of the other coaches were cheating?
I don’t know where I would throw this one in, but I would put it in somewhere: Which coaches at just$c* had knowledge of the facts that lead to the sanctions? If you were not one of them, what did you do to insist on full disclosure after the sanctions were imposed? Why have you never made a public statement about the cheating?
I don’t even have to ask about his cheap shots at CTS. He would never answer any of these questions.
Unlike a bunch of people on BN, I don't care too much about that Pete Carroll affiliation
Unless he is actually Pete Carroll’s long lost son or something, I wouldn’t mind if he were DC.
Cheatie Petie has a terrific reputation as a defensive guru
Let’s hire him. Who cares if he cheated, as long as we can win some games. Let’s get the guy who was the great benefactor of Miami’s athletes (after he gets out of jail). Why not?
Bruins, I absolutely cannot believe what I’m seeing here. I just can’t believe it.
There are 119 other D-1 schools, each with 9 coaches. There are 609 FBS, FCS, Div-2 and Div-3 schools out there. There are 32 NFL teams. There are unemployed coaches. There are probably Six Freakin’ Thousand active or almost active football coaches in this country. There are more if you go internationally. I can’t believe that there is a sentiment in the Bruins Nation that of all the coaches in all the world, it is somehow desireable or necessary or even OK to hire a guy who tried his best to please the most renowned cheater since Freddie Blassie. I am very disappointed.
Sorry for the pontificating, but we’re family, and I get to yell at my family once in a while. (And you, over in the corner, get the volume off on that TV set!)
"Unlike a bunch of people on BN"
The number of visitors to this community averages more than 1.5 times the size of sell out capacity of Pauley Pavilion. So I’d think twice about sounding so dismissive.
I don’t really care about the KNJ Jr. debate this point but don’t sound ignorant (like Chris Foster) when dismissing this community (especially if you are going to engage in discussion here). Thanks.
Yes
Former Pro Bowl, All Pro and Superbowl winning LB. He is a great recruiter. Had coached college LB’s and put a bunch of U$C LB’s in the league (whether you believe it was coaching or not, it is perception). He’s also got NFL coaching experience. Even if he weren’t a Bruin his resume is still pretty impressive.
Regarding the negative recruiting against us, its part of the job. Rick did it when he was at UW and CU.
Now I’m hoping Jim Mora can bring in a guy with more experience and bigger name.
Go Bruins!
by King J77 on Jan 8, 2012 12:04 AM PST via Android app reply actions
Huh?
What’s the point of considering someone if you’ve already decided not to hire him??
Roses are red, violets are blue...f*** $C.
i think he means
Norton shouldn’t be the top choice (or even a top choice necessarily) but his ties to SC shouldn’t eliminate him from the discussion.
That may not be his meaning, but it’s how I feel personally. Fine to consider him, but he doesn’t have the resume or qualifications as some other potential choices
by bucknellbruin on Jan 8, 2012 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
exactly what I meant
Troy is burning
by bruinbasketball on Jan 11, 2012 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Once a Bruin Always a Bruin
Bring him in in a heartbeat I say. The guy will help us bring in monster recruiting classes for the defense. I don’t know what kind of skills he has as a schemer but he would have a HC that knows a thing or two about scheming up defenses.
The guy coaches with a lot of fire and we won’t have to worry about our guys not showing up for games on D. If he is in the mix, bring him in. Let bygones be bygones.
Bruins are forever but Trojans are good only once.
What about Cal Naughton Jr.?
Shake and Bake
No. Never again.
From now on, it’s Magic Man… and El Diablo.
"The true athlete should have character, not be a character."- John Wooden
"I never met a person from whom I did not learn something."- John Wooden
Main twitter
SBN twitter
Consider, yes, but I HOPE there is a more experienced option out there.
"It's not who you are underneath. It's what you DO that defines you."
I voted No,
but only because there was not an option for Goodness Gracious, No. For me, Norton’s (or is it NortEn? I forget) embrace of troganhood was strike one. Strike two was his going out of his way to undermine UCLA.
But, strike three is his lack of DC experience. The one position in most need of upgrade, imo, is Defensive Coordinator. With the proper amount of contrition, I might be able to overlook strikes one and two.
But, throwing someone who has never done it before into the fray, and expecting him to have the skills and disciplines necessary to be an effective DC at the Division-I level is not a good bet. In time, maybe. Or, maybe for a program with an already strong defense. But, he’s not what we need most now, imo.
Strike Two?
That’s unfair, he’s supposed to be a coach at $C and yet tell kids that UCLA is a great place to be? He’d be fired on the spot.
Go Bruins!
by King J77 on Jan 8, 2012 6:41 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
It's not unfair at all
I didn’t say that KNJ should have recruited for UCLA. I said he went out of his way to undermine UCLA.
Norton jumped on the “Slick Rick” innuendo with gusto. He complained publicly that UCLA was telling recruits lies about $c and Norton’s future employment, so as to discourage $c’s recruits. . He strongly implied that Neuheisel, himself, was behind the dirty tricks, saying it fit “the pattern.”
He made these baseless charges because it was easy to do so. Neuheisel did have a reputation for being “slick.” It was a lot easier to pile on to an old reputation, however undeserved, than it was to consider facts.
Never mind that Neuheisel’s “slick” reputation was almost entirely superficial, and easily dissected. Never mind that, when pressed to name names, rather than manning up, Norton retreated into a coward’s catch-all, saying that the offender was the generic “UCLA.”
Norton took a superficial reputation and tried to throw more feces on it in order to smear a good man. He did so deliberately. Norton could have been content to sell $c on its own merits to recruits. But, he wasn’t. He chose the mindless mob route.
Norton’s tantrum was easily dispelled, and Coach Neuheisel came out of the dust-up by far the more dignified of the two. Norton came off as a petty, classless jerk. Whether Norton was doing this on his own, or whether he was doing Petey’s bidding, neither is a quality I want in a position at UCLA.
This was not competing for recruits. This was ugly, classless, cowardly smearing. Norton, himself, made this bed.
Perfect
My thoughts to a “T”. You expressed them perfectly.
I wonder how many of those who want to give Norton “a chance” know the history and that the opposition is based on his attacks on CRN and UCLA not simply the fact that he worked for sc.
Those of you voting “yes” — go back and read here the episode described by Nut — do you still want to vote “yes”? If so, would you mind explaining how that is OK? As Fox would say, “maybe you can convince me.”
sjh
I'm still waiting for the explanation
On January 7, I asked for an explanation of why the boxer’s son should not be deemed a cheater because of his association with Cheatie Petie. ‘66, I doubt that you will get a lot of people to explain how the boxer’s son’s attacks on Coach Neuheisel do not disqualify him for consideration.
To those who wondering why the big hubbub with this guy, I ask that you think about it again but assume he is only an ordinary or mediocre coach. Take his coaching skill out of the equation. Just on his character, as you can discern it from the attacks on Coach Neuheisel, would you hire him? I don’t even get to that issue, because he worked for Cheatie Petie and never tried to do anything to stop the cheating.
It's semantics for me
I voted yes, but in the sense that I see this discussion as being consideration of the issue. I would vote differently if you asked “Do I want TBS to be our DC?” or “Should TBS be the next DC”, as I think there are meany more qualified candidates, without the concerns that follow Norton and his previous actions.
At the same time, he wanted to come back and Dorrell pushed him away (likely with the approval of Chianti and MC). I can understand his being put off by that.
But if you ask in the literal sense, should he be considered, then I would say Yes to almost anyone. In this case, I think “consideration” will reveal him not to be a good choice for our program right now.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
Given the secrecy
and Mora’s ties to Seattle…it could very well be TBS.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Could Not Have Said It Better
myself…
"Players with fight never lose a game, they just run out of time"
~ John Wooden
Mora's decision
He is a traitor, but a pretty good DC. From the choices Mora has made so far, I trust him to make the best decision.
Get rid of Adidas and switch to Nike
Screw Dan Gurrerror
I agree with this
though I think it is worthwhile and appropriate to have this entire conversation
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
I'm shocked...
that so many think this would be okay.
1. He’s not some super mastermind defensive coach that has everyone knocking down his door with job offers.
2. He was a part of program that had no institutional control.
3. He sh*t on UCLA and Neuheisel when he took part in the $c marketing effort to downplay the Bruins getting a commit from Morrell Presley.
I wouldn’t even think of considering it unless he came clean first, starting with an apology.
he sounds a lot like Neuheisel
yet that guy got welcomed back to the family. From what I know (correct me if I’m wrong as I was only around 15 when this stuff when down) Neuheisel was taking a SH*T on UCLA and Bob Toledo as well. Was part of a program with no institutional control (UW). He also isn’t a mastermind offensive coach with everyone knocking his door down with job offers.
Go Bruins!
If you have the facts to back your charges -- post them. If not, back off.
CRN may not have been a great coach but he is a Bruin.
Those of us who did extensive research on him, as he was being hired, put up a lot of posts de-bunking the charges against CRN.
I don’t think you can support what you wrote. Prove me wrong with facts.
sjh
I don't usually get in on these at all
I limit myself to well-wishes for both programs.
However, has anyone actually read the NCAA report about USC? Done any research in that capacity? The conclusion they came to is that Ken Norton Jr. “should have known” about Reggie Bush and his relationship with agents. Not that he did know, not that he hid anything, but that he “should have known.”
That was the only violation that was noted in the NCAA report with regards to USC football. The others were OJ Mayo, and a Tennis player who made long distance calls to her family on the USC phone system (and thus did not pay for them).
None of those allegations appear to be any worse than anything CRN was associated with up at Washington.
If this post is met with discussion, I welcome the dialogue. If not, I just won’t post here ever again.
Fight On! Beat everybody but us!
I'm sorry...what are you trying to say?
Are you trying to say that of all the people at U$C, KNJ is the one who “should have known” about Reggie? Please tell me you are joking.
Now go ahead and remind me what the “allegations” on CRN up at Washington were. Somehow I don’t recall effing BRIBERY as one of them.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Nevermind.
No point in continuing.
Fight On! Beat everybody but us!
You're right. Their is no point in continuing.
Why don’t you guys fire the boxer’s son? That way, there would be no one on the campus who should have known anything. Link, everything is just fine over there. The emperor sure has beautiful clothes. Just keep saying that to yourself, and all will be well.
But before you leave, can you address the Joe McKnight SUV issue? Please. Or is that something that no one knew or should have known.
Yep, Link, you’re a perfect trogan. No cheating has ever taken place on your campus. And how nice the emperor’s clothes look.
You're hilarious
You comment, and then won’t continue if someone disagrees with you. You go ahead and continue to live in your Trogan bubble. It’s the world against U$C and we’re all just envious.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Yes we have the read the NCAA report -- multiples times
And have blogged about it (including the subsequent appeals process) extensively. You can look them up.
I am not going to get into KNJ debate. I voted as someone who doesn’t care. However, the frontpagers here are as well read on the NCAA report as anyone and we obviously don’t serve up the spin coming from Southern Cal’s office of legal counsel.
interesting poll results...
this knj thing is absurd. if we want a scandal clouded defensive coordinator, we might as well get one with a decent résumé…. randy shannon should be “considered.”
when he screwed with the transfer requests, was that fair? did he know what this ponzi booster was doing?
knj is a non starter. or at least should be. apparently, however, a whole hell of a lot of us have short memories.
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." --John Wooden
No....
….I have the same amount of experience as a DC as KNJ. Do you want me running your Defense? Think not.
As for his association with cheating and $C……It’s like finding hair in your food ……nauseating to think about how it got there and more horrific to think where it has been.
There are better candidates available.
I don't think we should automatically write taz off as defensive coordinator.
Taz, can you sit in the press box wearing a head set? Can you tell which team has the ball? If so, you’re as qualified as our DC from last year.
If Norton shouldn't be hired because he is a cheater...
Shouldn’t the same reasoning be applied to the strength and conditioning coach who was just hired?
Not really
One is systemic, the other is a moment in time, a bad decision in the spur of the moment.
Please. I don’t know if you’ve watched the clip, but the guy was already way out of bounds when he was tripped. So it’s not even cheating.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
I assumed the cheating by the S and C coach was not in dispute
I don’t know how to cut and paste, but the AP story made it sound like it wasn’t just a spur of the moment move —
“The Jets suspended assistant coach Sal Alosi indefinitely Wednesday after he acknowledged that he ordered five inactive players to form a wall along the sideline for a punt return, during which he tripped a Dolphins player.”
Anyway, I don’t really know that much about that incident, or really care about it that much. I just think we may be going down a slippery slope with this guy. He would definitely not be my first choice. And Norton isn’t high on my list either.
I would be content with a rule that says no cheaters should be considered.
What I don’t like, waters, is the notion that we should hire the boxer’s son because his cheating wasn’t as bad as someone else’s cheating, or at least no worse. I think what the boxer’s son did is a thousand times worse, because he did it in secret. He knows all that has gone on across town and he has said nothing. Add to that that he has never made even an insincere gesture of apology for flat out lying about Coach Neuheisel. Alosi had a character flaw that allowed him to do what he did, but he recognized that flaw and apologized. The boxer’s son has done nothing to indicate that he even recognizes that his inactions (not blowing the whistle on the cheating at just$c*) and his actions (lying about Coach Neuheisel) show a character flaw. From a cheating perspective, the guy is amoral. I do not want him on the staff. I don’t want him on our campus.
He is to me as Fredo was to Don Michael.
How is that anywhere close to cheating?
You can do whatever you want on your own sideline. It was meant to be intimidating.
I am done with this discussion. It is asinine.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
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