A Bruin Alum Rips Apart Wetzel's (YahooSports) Hit Piece on Wooden
From the diaries. A Bruin alum fires back on behalf of the Bruin basketball community. -N
UPDATED 4:06 pm EST:Thanks to BN for promoting this diary. As Nestor pointed out in the comment thread if any of you have a direct email address for any of the editor at Yahoo sports, please post it in the thread, and I will incorporate in this post. You can also send additional feedback to YahooSports beside Wetzel by clicking here.
I already posted how some Bruin fans have exposed Dan Wetzel as a Wooden hating hack, who was basically a toady of Tarkenion. Now another Bruin fan, who posts on BRO as the Canandian, has sent Wetzel the following letter destroying Wetzel's hack job on Coach Wooden. Here is his letter:
Dear Mr. Wetzel:And remember how ManPundit wasted no time embracing Wetzel's article even though he lies like a little piece of shit saying he has no agenda shilling for the Trojans while hating on Bruins. Asshole.As a UCLA fan, I was alarmed by your April 2 column, concerning alleged statements that Bill Walton made in a book concerning improprieties in UCLA's basketball program during John Wooden's tenure. In a follow-up on April 5, you wrote to a reader, "You don't think those comments by Walton were, at the very least, worthy of reprinting? When I first read them last year, I couldn't believe they weren't better known. Seriously, Bill Walton said that, if investigated, UCLA would have to give up seven NCAA titles and go on probation for 100 years. Sorry, but that's worth cribbing."
I ordered a copy of the book, "On the Road with the Portland Trail Blazers," used copies of which are readily available on Amazon.com. I assume you will be surprised to learn (and will immediately inform your readers) that your characterization of Walton's comments is completely false.
First, you stated in your April 2 column that the book was written by Walton ("Those quotes come from none other than Bill Walton, maybe the greatest Bruin of them all, in his 1978 book `On the Road with the Portland Trailblazers'"). This is false. The book was written by Jack Scott. In the Author's Note, Scott wrote: "Bill never asked to read even one page of the manuscript - never mind the entire manuscript - before it went to the printer. Consequently, I am solely responsible for the book's content. You should not automatically assume that Bill agrees with all of the opinions I express throughout the book..."
Second, you quoted Walton as saying (or writing), "If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny (other schools) have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national championships and be on probation for the next 100 years." This, too, is false. This was the author, Scott's, statement, not Walton's (page 215).
Moreover, the insertion of the parenthetical statement "(other schools)" is misleading. The actual words Scott wrote (which you replaced with "(other schools)" was "Jerry Tarkanian and his players." Scott was defending Tarkanian, with whom Scott identified for obvious reasons: Scott was a former athletic director at Oberlin College, which, he wrote in "On the Road," the NCAA "put under intensive investigation for illegal recruiting while I was the athletic director" (page 215). A quick Google search reveals that in a 2000 obituary on the Oberlin College website, Scott is described as "a renowned critic of organized athletics [who] took every opportunity to lash out against the financial exploitation of collegiate and professional athletes, arguing that sporting events should cater to the needs of participants rather than owners, advertisers and spectators."
Had you correctly attributed this seemingly damning quote to Scott, rather than incorrectly to Walton, you might also have thought it appropriate to inform your readers about Scott's background, to which much of his book was devoted. Scott was a writer for the radical 1960's magazine Ramparts, and was closely associated with the Symbionese Liberation Army. Extended portions of the book detail Scott's refusal to cooperate with the FBI as that agency (which he accused of "crimes and killings," see Introduction, page xvii) "harassed" him and his family for years merely because he harbored his fugitive friends, SLA members Patty Hearst and Bill and Emily Harris, for six months. Your readers might have been interested in examining the merit of Scott's opinions of Sam Gilbert and Jerry Tarkanian in the context of his opinions of the FBI and SLA.
The only conceivably damning quote in your article that Scott actually attributes to Walton was Walton's alleged statement to Scott that "It's hard for me to have a proper perspective on financial matters, since I've always had whatever I wanted since I enrolled at UCLA" (page 212). However, Scott's book (unlike your article) at least put this alleged quote in context - it comes immediately after Scott's explanation that it was easy for Walton to stay at UCLA for four years and resist turning pro because "he came from a comfortable middle-class background." Even as presented by Scott, it appears that Scott and Walton were discussing Walton's privileged background, not largesse from Gilbert. Of course, Scott, who barely disguised his anti-Gilbert agenda throughout the book, is content to let the reader draw the more nefarious conclusion.
Perhaps due to his political viewpoint, his own anger at being under "intensive investigation" by the NCAA, and/or Walton's firing of Gilbert as his advisor at about the time the book was written (pages 168-69), Scott used Gilbert as a whipping boy whenever Gilbert came into play. He implied, without evidence, that Gilbert had mob connections (page 213) and made unsupported but provocative statements such as "[h]is critics have questioned how someone who does so much for free could also be a self-made millionaire" (id.). This is typical of Scott's "journalism," in which, for example, he suggests without evidence that NBA referees are on the take (page 68) and accuses Trail Blazers coach Jack Ramsey of racism based on unsourced innuendo and despite Walton's admiration for Ramsey (page 115). Scott also excused Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from publicly accusing Walton of marijuana use by writing that "Kareem explained that it was Sam Gilbert who told him this story about Bill" (page 211).
Yet even with his undisguised bias and politically charged point of view, Scott ultimately wrote that "Bill and I doubt John Wooden was aware of the `support' his star players regularly received, and these revelations should not detract from his brilliant coaching record" (page 215).
The bottom line is that Jack Scott - a radical sportswriter and rogue athletic director, closely associated with the murderous SLA - is the person who provided the "money quote" on which your article was based, not Bill Walton. I think you would be doing your readers (as well as journalism) a disservice if you fail to correct the falsehoods on which your article was based
And speaking of assholes ... you can send in your 2 cents to Mr. Wetzel by clicking right here.
Go Bruins!!!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Classy Accurate and very credible...
An accusation was made and the subsequent reserch showed that it was just a hit piece.
Sooner or later the MSM will get the hint. Great work by Bluestreet for tracking it down.
by SOCOM on Apr 13, 2006 7:56 AM PDT 0 recs
I don't know who this Canadian guy is...
by Ajax on Apr 13, 2006 9:31 AM PDT 0 recs
Whoever he is ...
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 9:32 AM PDT
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That was just about the biggest written beatdown
by scittles on Apr 13, 2006 9:40 AM PDT 0 recs
Classy
by Heismanpundit on Apr 13, 2006 11:42 AM PDT 0 recs
God would call you an asshole ...
by bluestreet on
Apr 13, 2006 11:44 AM PDT
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You really have no standing ...
So stay out of this thread. Thanks.
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 11:46 AM PDT
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Would love to
Wooden actually likes me and would be very upset if he knew I was being called an asshole.
by Heismanpundit on
Apr 13, 2006 11:51 AM PDT
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HP ...
Blue did the right thing exposing your bullshit post expanding on Wetzel's article and attempting to give some modicum of credibility to it.
And now that you are getting attacked for it on a Bruin blog, do don't whine like a little bitch about it.
And do not ever again mention Wooden's name in any of your post here on BruinsNation.
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 11:56 AM PDT
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No, "classy" would be...
I'm not going to hold my breath.
by Ajax on
Apr 13, 2006 2:12 PM PDT
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Sorry state of journalism
by Cocoman25 on Apr 13, 2006 12:07 PM PDT 0 recs
The thing is ...
We didn't have online tools before to constantly check this kind of nonsense.
Thanks to this post - we have this content all saved up with a permalink - and next time this moron comes up with this drivel we will be able to get this information injected into the online chattering stream even faster.
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 12:11 PM PDT
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Agreed
I think is is outstanding that someone did fact checking and rebutted that assbag wetzel's so called accurate journalism.
For anyone to attack a man of JW's character is a criminal act as far as I'm concerned.
by artybruin on Apr 13, 2006 12:20 PM PDT 0 recs
How about sending this to OTHER media writers...
Wetzel MIGHT read this, feel a little embarrassed, and then not tell anyone about it.
Just my opinion, but if you want this guy to straighten out his act, I sincerely doubt he'll do it himself. Send this and a copy of the original post to local and national media and see what happens.
MIM
by Meriones on Apr 13, 2006 12:53 PM PDT 0 recs
If any of you have the contact info.
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 12:59 PM PDT
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editor info
http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/sports/cgi_feedback
and here's the one in regards to "How do I report errors to Yahoo! Sports?"
http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/sports/cgi_feedback?subject=bugs
might not hurt to send our gripes there, although it's most likely just a customer service guy checking those emails out anyway.
by sfatoo on
Apr 13, 2006 2:37 PM PDT
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Looks like ...
I think it would be even better if we can get hold of an actual email address of one of YahooSport's main sports editors and fill up his or her inbox.
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 2:43 PM PDT
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HP = HyPocrite
However, then he jumps all over this article which stunk from the minute it hit the net - If Walton actually did make those quotes, how is it Yahoo boy is breaking that story now???
Didn't matter to HP, and he ran with it by wrapping it up in some veiled attempt to make it look like an article on the Cult of Hoops coaches or something...puh-leazzz...that whole article was a bunch of babbling with the 800-pound elephant in the room being Walton's quotes and the article link.
Heismanpundit - if you have any integrity you'll write a correction to that ASAP.
Until then, HP = HyPocrite
by SouthBayBarney on Apr 13, 2006 2:01 PM PDT 0 recs
HP needs to come out of the closet ...
We probably would not have beaten up on him so much if he actually had the intellectual honesty to admit he is not just some impartial college football blogger as oppose to just a Trojan shill.
Too bad for him. He used to have lot of credibility. I think last year even Tracy Pearson over at BRO linked to his blog once while touting MJD's Heisman hopes. Even BN and Nestor did it it. But he has pissed away all of that good will because of his pathetic, disgraceful posts on Wooden, and just outright lying to make distasteful excuses of Pete's actions (or lack thereof) re. Maluaga.
He has been exposed as nothing but Pom Pom's little bitch.
by bluestreet on
Apr 13, 2006 2:40 PM PDT
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HP...
He's been pretty objective about a lot CFB issues. But I can see how you guys feel about some of the issues that have been discussed in regards to some of the bad behaviour over at SC. But I don't think that should disqualify him as a credible source for info on CFB.
by SOCOM on
Apr 13, 2006 3:21 PM PDT
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Heismanpundit Quotes - November 3, 2005
"But for you to spread these falsehoods isn't very classy. I know you don't lik USC, but does it make you feel good to disseminate something that isn't true? Can't you hate USC yet be intellectually honest?"
"I know you are a UCLA guy and you hate SC. That doesn't mean you can't be intellectually honest about things."
"I just figured that, despite all your hate, you would be intellectually honest. I guess that was foolish."
"...I was surprised that he would reprint things which are provably not accurate. Like you said, it hurts credibility."
by SouthBayBarney on Apr 13, 2006 2:38 PM PDT 0 recs
Hey guys
You have to admit that they were pretty interesting quotes, even if they don't paint UCLA in the best light. I certainly had never come across them before. Wetzel wrote that piece and it dovetailed well with my point about the cult of college basketball coaches.
Of course I will put a post up about this matter. I will do so because I am not a shill and am objective in this matter and will always go with the facts.
However, I will probably look at the book myself to make a final determination. For all I know, the writer of this letter to Wetzel is just as shoddy as Wetzel.
I find it funny that the writer gets bashed for being left wing when Walton was one of the biggest lefties around...look who wrote his book!
by Heismanpundit on Apr 13, 2006 3:30 PM PDT 0 recs
Final $0.02...
Probably should have picked up the book BEFORE you ran w/the story - seems that's what you expect from those trying to drag down SC and Carrol.
However, credit to you and your website if you correct the situation.
by SouthBayBarney on
Apr 13, 2006 3:42 PM PDT
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my correction
come on barney. do you double-check every quote that you read? the guy said it was from a book. how was I to know that the quotes were still bad?
Just the facts, that's all. The fact is the quotes were bad and I just acknowledged it on my site.
It doesn't take away some of the other issues I was bringing up though.
by Heismanpundit on Apr 13, 2006 4:01 PM PDT 0 recs
Correction, But Not Retraction
But, I'll just point out that it wasn't exactly a retraction.
You basically say, even if not in so many words, that though the details of Wetzel's story have been discredited, the substance of the story remains true. Specifically, you say:
Is this "no doubt" true? Do you have the facts to back this up? I admit, I'm no expert on the subject. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the rumors of Gilbert providing favors to UCLA players were true. But, at the least, stating that Gilbert was a "sugar daddy" as an incontrovertible fact, without specifying what you mean by that (I believe purposefully) ambiguous phrase, is troubling.
You go on to argue that the "gist" of Wetzel's story is accurate, relying solely upon the website of first year student at UCLA named Mitchell Austin:
You might as well say: I still think UCLA cheated. And then you wrap up by repeating the same conclusion from your original post that UCLA's basketball program was "absolutely" "corrupt":
Change your conclusion? No. Just repeat it. And then suggestively sign off by invoking the sinister "shadows of the banners that hang in Pauley Pavilion."
Listen, you say what you want. And I'm no sports historian. But if you're going to say something like this, say it with support. Not just some well-crafted innuendo, a discredited article from a hack Yahoo reporter and a first year college student.
As you say:
by Cocoman25 on
Apr 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT
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Coco ...
Everyone should read it. Thanks man.
by Nestor on
Apr 13, 2006 5:52 PM PDT
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my response
I have been around LA sports for a while and know many former coaches, players and media people who were around during the Gilbert era. So most of my information comes from these people--some are Bruins, some are Trojans and some are neither. All of them are credible and none of them take anything away from the greatness of UCLA or Wooden's coaching. They just tell me what everyone at the time who was involved in LA sports knew and accepted.
I did not retract my original point because, as I said, I believe that UCLA's program, like most other top programs of the time (a key point) had a certain level of corruption. Just because Wetzel does some false quotes to support this does not make that original point baseless.
Yes, I think UCLA cheated. I also think USC cheated. I also think Kentucky cheated. And so on. Where Wetzel and to some extent Tarkanian are correct is that UCLA never was really investigated to the extent it could have been because its program was important to college basketball.
Gilbert's involvement in the program did lead to a vacating of the 1980 Final Four, so it's not like this notion that Gilbert being a sugar daddy (in this case, he co-signed a car for a player) is outlandish. It is well-established and generally acknowledged. Wooden himself says that he told his players to stay away and that he would note when they would have nice new clothes and so on.
As for the link to the first-year college student, it's the first thing that comes up on google when you enter Gilbert's name and it is actually a decent summary of his relation to the UCLA program.
Thanks again for the response and I hope you understand where i am coming from.
by Heismanpundit on
Apr 13, 2006 10:51 PM PDT
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Fact or Myth? (cross-posted to diary)
I think Nestor is right to demand that you name your sources before making these kinds of accusations. You are directly challenging the credibility and honor of both a program and a man. So, who are these "former coaches, players and media people" and what, specifically, do they claim?
Also, how do you know that your source are so "credible."? I would caution you to use care before characterizing any long ago fact as "accepted" without rigorously analyzing the basis for your claims. Over time, rumors pass surprisingly quickly from unsubstantiated innuendo, to myth, to lore, to established fact, often just by virtue of repetition. Did your sources have first hand information? Were they present when gifts were given, or money changed hands? Or did they just hear a rumor from someone else they deemed credible? Or by then was it alreadly then just an "accepted" fact.
This isn't just semantics. It matters, particularly when these kinds of charges are made. I'm sure you and I could come up with countless examples where a salacious charge, though false, takes on a life of its own, often harming the reputation of an innocent.
So, its fair, don't you think, to ask for sources on this kind of thing? Particularly when those making the charges have their own (often undisclosed) motivations and interests, including, without limitation, jealousy, rivalry commercial gain, simple joy in gossip, or whatever.
And, a separate, though certainly not distinct, issue is what do you charge was Wooden's role in all this? As you might imagine, you have ruffled the hackles of many people here with what I think can fairly be interpreted as attacks on a good man. Separate and apart from Sam Gilbert's alleged shenanigans, do you think Wooden cheated? Have you asked him? You've often reminded us that you two are good friends, both here and here:
I suspect Wooden would do more than just cuss at you through a rolled up program if you did. And he may be less upset at someone calling you names thereafter. But, I can't judge this. I don't have the relationship. You do, so would you kindly ask a few questions and clear this all up?
If, however, you aren't willing to share your share sources, and ask you friend Wooden about it, don't you think it would be more prudent, respectful, and honest to think twice before repeating these allegations?
by Cocoman25 on
Apr 14, 2006 9:27 AM PDT
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Wooden
I am also old enough to remember that it was only Tarkanian (at LB) complaining about everything UCLA to anyone that would listen. This was because he was not the basketball center of attention in the LA area and was never going to be.
In regards to not going Pro early, back then very few did it because you had to prove "hardship" in order for the NBA to approve the jump.
by artybruin on
Apr 14, 2006 12:21 PM PDT
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Wetzel's a hack
by shaq on Apr 14, 2006 5:02 PM PDT 0 recs
My complaint to Yahoo "Customer Service"
by shaq on Apr 14, 2006 5:26 PM PDT 0 recs













