Bruins Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Big East Power Poll: Week Six Bar-right-arrows



Expanding the Pac-10 with CU+1?

Although this is the first time we are bringing up the topic on BN, I have a feeling this is not the last time we are going to take up this issue. Wizard had an interesting post this past week riffing on a Kansas City Star column pondering the expansion of Pac-10 through the addition of Colorado Buffaloes with another team:

Colorado to the Pacific 10? By no means is this out of the question. The Kansas City Star, in its recent series on the Big 12, considered the possible jump of the Buffaloes. Wrote Blair Kerkhoff: "Colorado, the only Big 12 school in another time zone, often looks West. Could it resist an overture from the Pac-10?" If Colorado headed West, it likely would do so with another team to maintain balance in the new conference and give the Buffaloes a travel partner. Although Air Force, Colorado State, Utah and Brigham Young are mentioned as candidates to join Colorado in the new league, the Utes and Cougars make the most sense to the Wiz. Now why would the Pac-10 even consider expansion? First, the conference could split into North and South divisions, with Colorado and its partner joining the Washington and Oregon schools in the North. This in turn would create a lucrative football title game without disturbing cherished league rivalries (Oregon-Oregon State, USC-UCLA, etc.). The second reason is that a beefed up Pac-10 -- with the addition of the Denver and Salt Lake City markets -- would be a television juggernaut. Consider this: outside of San Diego, Las Vegas and Albuquerque, the league would have every major TV market in the West.
Hmmm. Here are some of my thoughts on the topic. I am also putting up a poll on the right side asking the question if Colorado were to join the Pac-10, which team would make sense to pair up with Ralphie's crew?


Photo: Jenna Isaacson (Columbia Daily Tribune)

Honestly, I am some what ambivalent about the idea of expanding the Pac-10. I like it the way it is right now. I am not sure why the Pac-10 should bother with whoring itself out like other power conferences (except the Big-10), expanding so that it could have a championship game? To me the reason why Pac-10 is so special is because we have those end of the year natural rivalries between USC-UCLA, Cal-Stanford, ASU-UA, OSU-UO, and UDub-WSU. There is something magical about the last regular season game for every Pac-10 team (sans SC which sometimes has ND as the last game) that gets so fired up for the inter-state, inter-region (Cal-Stanford), or in our case the inter-city games. That's what makes the conference fun. I honestly wish the Rose Bowl dumped it's alliance with the BCS nonsense, and went back to the old arrangement of Big-10, Pac-10 showdowns. Now that won't happen (topic for another day perhaps).

Anyways if the Pac-10 were to expand I think the most logical way to expand it would be to add two prominent schools from another Western State with high profile college football culture, so that the conference can be symmetrical in it's regional divide, and maintain it's end of the season rivalries. And since in the aforementioned post it specifically talks about Colorado joining the conference, I'd think Colorado State would be the other logical choice. CU-CSU's fierce and intense natural rivalry would reach a whole new dimension under the glare of the Pac-10. Here is the game winning FG from the '05 game, as seen from the CU student section:



Man, that reminds of our student section when Nikosi Littleton batted down a Rob Johnson pass in the end zone to seal the win 1992. Bedlam at the Rose Bowl. Let's hope the UCLA student section gets to experience that in December of this year.

Going back to CU-CSU and Pac-10 expansion, the addition of those two teams would also add Denver as another huge Metropolis TV market in the conference in addition to Seattle, Bay Area, LA, and Phoenix.

I am not sure adding Utah schools makes any sense to me. Add Utah schools to the conference so we can look forward to rocking good time roadies to Salt Lake City and Provo? I don't think so. Utah's TV market doesn't seem all that big of a deal considering the low population density in that state. I am not really all that excited about having Air Force in our conference. As for San Diego State and Fresno State, adding those schools to the Pac-10 makes as much as sense as adding Toledo, Cincinnati and Miami (OH) to the Big-10. Entries to power conferences is not an entitlement. There has to be a high threshold when it comes to having a track record of committment to excellence in research in these higher education institutions. I think there has to be some discernable indicator that insitutions for higher education are committed to academic/research excellence before angling for an entry to a big time power conference. Fresno State and San Diego States of the world just don't pass the mustard. They are good options for folks who live around their surrounding communities and do not have the grades to go to a high profile school, but they are simply not the same caliber institution as a Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Washington or the other preeminent state school in the Pac-10.

Anyways, I am interested in hearing thoughts from Bruin fans and other Pac-10 fans on this issue. What do you guys think? If Colorado were to join our conference, which other team would make sense?

Note to our friends from Block U. Please don't try to game this poll by posting the link on Utah message boards (like you guys did to influence a poll on DawgSports). In terms of polling we are interested in the opinions of Bruin fans and fans from other Pac-10 schools only (you are more then welcome to discuss in comment thread why Utah would be the natural partner of Colorado). So if anyone wants to publicize this online poll, post it on Pac-10 boards, not on the mid-majors salivating to get into our power conference.

As mentioned above, this is probably not the last time we are going to be discussing this topic on BN. But might as well get the conversation started during the dog days of off-season.

GO BRUINS

0 recs | Comment 20 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Hmmm.
This is a great idea...

[IMG]http://begonias.typepad.com/srubio/images/triumph.jpg[/IMG]
For me to Poop on!

by True Blue and Gold on Jul 2, 2006 10:03 PM PDT   0 recs

Regardless...
If you agree or not the reality is the Pac-10 is looked down upon as the weakest of all power conferences. A conference championship game and team in the Colorado market would help boost our credability nationwide. Also, what I believe is most important. The TV deals in both basketball and football with FSN both state the networks rights to broadcasting the conference games for all 10 Pac-10 schools. Should we admit COlorado and another school it would create a loophole where FSN would still have the rights to games that would equal the number of games the conference would have with 10 teams, but the Pac-10 would be free to negotiate a contract with another network (if they were smart enough so don't count on it). This would put the Pac-10 on ESPN possibly and increase our credability soooo much.

by ryebreadraz on Jul 2, 2006 10:55 PM PDT   0 recs

uh huh
do you have access to the pac-10 contract to know that the language is specifically "all 10 pac-10 teams" rather than "all pac-10 teams"?  I find it hard to believe that FSN would drop the ball on wording like that.

by ranelar on Jul 3, 2006 12:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It was on...
ESPN a couple months ago when they were analyzing the effect of the changing of conferences following the ACC/ Big East mess. The read thos exact words from the contract on air.

by ryebreadraz on Jul 4, 2006 12:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I dont like 12 team conferences
12 team conferences seem way too watered down to me.   I dislike conference title games in football as well.  The Pac 10 is getting stronger year by year as the West Coast continues it's growth, no need to add another team to the mix from that standpoint.  I'm sure the school AD's see this as a financial boon however.

by ucla21 on Jul 2, 2006 11:15 PM PDT   0 recs

Don't look at me...
I don't even like Arizona/ASU in conference.  If, however, we are going to expand, my first two choices would be:

SDSU
Cal Poly SLO if they could boost up their shit.

Worst comes to worst, I'd take CU and SDSU, I guess.

Go Bruins...F@#$% SC... UCLA Fight Fight Fight!

by HomeBruin on Jul 3, 2006 12:30 AM PDT   0 recs

San Diego St Doesn't Qualify For Pac10 Membership
The Pac-10 is initially an academic organization of research universities, i.e., each school offers a wide range of doctoral degrees, and an athletic organization second.  (Kind of like the Ivy Leage.)  San Diego St. does not meet this basic requirement.

by UCLAW on Jul 3, 2006 8:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
I had the same thought.

This goes for Fresno State as well.

May be someday UCSD and UCDavis will have legit D-1 programs. But I don't see it happening.

CU has decent graduate programs and research endowmnets. So they make sense.

CSU is the other prominent state school which is growing at an incredible rate. So this combo. may make sense.

That said I am fine with Pac-10 staying within 10 schools and keeping the tradition intact.

by Nestor on Jul 3, 2006 8:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I understand what you're saying
But the train sailed on "academic institutions" entering the conference when we accepted Zona And ASU.
Go Bruins...F@#$% SC... UCLA Fight Fight Fight!

by HomeBruin on Jul 3, 2006 10:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm getting a conflicting stance here.
What does CSU bring that Utah doesn't? The Colorado market? Well that market is already there automatically with an expansion of CU. An academic school? Well the University of Utah is one of the top research universities in the nation. A better "road trip" than Salt Lake? Well Fort Collins and Salt Lake are two completely different types of towns. Fort Collins is more like Logan, Utah as opposed to Salt Lake City, Utah.

Expanding with two Colorado schools does not make sense because the benefits aren't there. You'll already tap into the Colorado market by expanding to Colorado, so why bring CSU? Instead, take Utah. The Utes not only bring a solid research institution, but a good football team and probably the best basketball team outside of Arizona and UCLA in the western part of the United States. That and I'm sure Oregon, USC and other Pac 10 schools that recruit Utah poly players would love it. Plus there's a natural rivalry with Utah/CU (both were members of the old Skyline Conference, played every year from 1919-1962); Arizona and Arizona State (Utah, ASU and UA were charter members of the WAC). Plus Utah is one of the fastest growing states in the nation, with 70% of its population living within 40 miles of Salt Lake City.

IF, and that's a big if, the P-10 would ever accept CU, Utah would be the most logical choice to up the conference to 12 teams. They have the prestige, academics and location that warrants a strong look. Something Colorado State, Fresno State, UNLV, New Mexico and SDSU do not have.

by JazzyUte on Jul 3, 2006 3:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A real rivalry
Maybe I'm not as familar with this as some, but I think CSU brings a legit regional rivalry that Utah doesn't.  Forgive me, but I'm not impressed that Utah played CU before '62.

As for academics, according to US News, Utah and CSU are tied at 120th nationally (with UCLA 25, and Colorado 78).  So, seems like same, same to me.

Don't get me wrong, I think Utah is in the top 3 if the Pac 10 ever expands.  But I'm just not feeling it.

by Menelaus on Jul 3, 2006 5:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

All valid points.
However expanding just for the sake of a rivalry is not a legitimate way of expanding, IMO. The University of Utah is also a top research school, something I know the Pac Ten would like.

Also, when it comes to facilities, CSU can't compare to the University of Utah. CSU doesn't even have an indoor practice facility, their basketball arena seats something like 8,000 (and they normally only average half that) and their football stadium seats 30,000. Compare that to Utah's Rice-Eccles Stadium which seats 46,000 with plans to expand it to 55,000-60,000. The Huntsman Center (basketball) which seats 15,000 and their recently built IPF and you'll see when it comes to facilities, Utah dominates.

I just don't see why expanding to two Colorado teams is more logical than expanding to Utah & Colorado (and Utah is becoming a nice recruiting pool for Pac Ten teams). Especially when you consider that CU already has a monopoly on Denver and CSU plays in small Fort Collins. With Utah & Colorado, you'd be getting the Denver and Salt Lake TV markets. With CU and CSU, you'd only be getting the Denver market, with another cellar dweller team.

by JazzyUte on Jul 3, 2006 6:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good points as well
I'm really not in a position to comment about research budget or facilities, but will take your word for it.

I also tend to agree that Utah has its advantages (a good hoops program among them), and CSU has its shortcomings.  But, the rivalry is a fairly big point in my mind, mostly because I think it is what really makes the Pac 10 fun and unique.  Of course, if the Pac 10 expands to 12, there would likely be a conference tourney, and thus those year end rivalry games may go away anyway.

In the end, I probably vote for no expansion.  Unless Texas suddenly becomes available that is.

by Menelaus on Jul 3, 2006 6:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like the idea ...
but only if CU comes with Colo. State or Utah. Not sure whichone I'd like. But I guess Colorado State ... that way we can have another "civil war" rivalry in the Pac.

By the way ... did you guys see CFR? Commenting on this post he calls USC a near academic powerhouse. This is the same asshat who thinks Peter Carroll is a physical genius.

People wonder why we don't take this kid's opinion seriously anymore. He has his mouth wrapped around Pom Pom's ...

by bluestreet on Jul 3, 2006 7:40 AM PDT   0 recs

Not a big deal.
In all fairness, he referred to UCLA as an "academic powerhouse" before he called SC a "near academic powerhouse."  I don't see a problem with what he wrote, considering the fact that USC has academic rankings comparable to UCLA's in US News.

Back on topic, I would rather not see any new teams brought into the Pac 10.  If any are added, I hope they are Colorado and CSU, since those two teams have a natural rivalry with one another.

by Bruin Roar on Jul 3, 2006 9:01 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he is still a moron
and hillariously getting a little bent out of shape over a narrow hypo. here on BN

by bluestreet on Jul 3, 2006 9:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ummm...
Wouldn't the Big 12 be a little upset abput losing CU?

by True Blue and Gold on Jul 3, 2006 4:08 PM PDT   0 recs

Tough call
Not expanding would be nice.  However, I think it'd be fun to have a Pac-12 championship (though I can see I'm in the minority).

The best two teams would be Colorado and Utah.  Colo has a nice rivalry with CSU but that has only been big the last 10 years.  CSU is in a nowhere town and not known for much.  Utah has a nice rivalry with BYU - but who wants a religious school in the Pac.  Utah has good genetics, med school, and an okay law school.  I lived in San Diego for a while and SDSU is not far removed from a community college.

Utah and Colorado would develop a nice rivalry.  I know that I haven't liked Utah lately as they beat us in football.

US news and world report - Rankings: (on a side note: who decided that they are the experts on all university/college rankings?)

Stanford 5
UC - Berkeley 20
UCLA 25
USC 30
Washington 45
*BYU 71
*Colorado 78
Arizona 97
Oregon 115
*Utah 120
*Colorado St 120
Washington St 120
Oregon State - not ranked
Arizona State - not ranked

by azblue on Jul 4, 2006 8:08 PM PDT   0 recs

rankings
I think those are undergraduate rankings.  Since academic conferences primarily revolve around research, not undergrad instruction, looking at the rankings of graduate programs would probably be more relevant.  I think US News publishes those also, along with some others.

by elliptic on Jul 5, 2006 3:24 PM PDT   0 recs

UC Davis
I think it will be a long time before the pac 10 expands, but when they do I think UC Davis will get a good look. They bring the academics and are the only other UC with a football team besides berkeley and LA. they also bring the Sacramento market wich is growing very quickly.I don't know who the other team could be, but this wold probably be 15-20 years away.

by digd on Aug 4, 2006 11:55 PM PDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bruins Nation, an unofficial daily online scrap book covering the greatest collegiate athletic program in the nation. GO BRUINS.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Telemachus_small
Photos: WSU @ UCLA
13-9_ucla_baby____036_small
Check Your Mail...
080513__0038_1_small
Relentless Optimism and the Creation of a Winning Culture
Telemachus_small
Photos: Fresno State @ UCLA

Recent FanPosts

Pompomsucks_small
"Several Pac-10 schools" file complaint about Peetie's cheating
Bruinsnation_small
B Diddy Gives Ben Ball Warriors Another Shout Out
10113_big_small
Non-Revenue Sports Bruin Review and Calendar
Getcarter_small
Coach Howland > Ratface
Bruinsnation_small
The Wacky UCLA Marketing Dept At It Again
Small
O.J.'s Final Message
California_flag_sun_small
Dec. 5, 2008 - O.J. Gets His Due
Small
The New Version of the Las Vegas Bowl
Small
Free pair tix for Wazzu behind Bruin Bench

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Managers

094_small Ajax

Bruinsnation_small Nestor

Menelaus2_small Menelaus

Arron_afflalo1_small Tydides

Brad_pitt_as_achilles_small Achilles

Small Meriones

Telemachus_small Telemachus

Small Odysseus

ad

Site Meter