Walker = A Backstabber (A)?
by Nestor on Oct 24, 2007 4:52 AM PDT
in Football
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PrintThe labeling of DeWayne Walker as an alleged backstabber, and, as some folks are speculating, that there may be plotting going on that he will replace the Doofus (now calling Dorrell a Doofus is not an allegation, it’s an observable truth that can be substantiated by 4+ years of incompetence), has generated a lot of passionate disagreements in our comment thread. Specifically the most cogent disagreement with this labeling has come courtesy of our Class of 66. I told 66 in response to his eloquent diary that I would put all the info out there that is leading to this kind of labeling in one place.
First, let’s revisit the Sporting News story again. Ever since TSN took down a post written by Tom Dienhart, which reported that "Dan Guerrero met with Bruin defensive coordinator DeWayne Walker … during the team's off week to discuss the possibility of Walker taking over as interim coach this season if Dorrell is let go early," the perception developed that the meeting never happened. However, I happen to think what Fox 71’s email exchange with Dienhart which generated this response, supports not only that a meeting took place, but also that the story was being passed around by Walker himself (emphasis mine):
"I had a good source, believe me. But, I should have cleared things with DeWayne.
If things go south the next few weeks, things will get interesting. The defense is fine. UCLA was HOT that I posted that nugget. They do admit there was a meeting, but they say it was for "personal development." Yeah, whatever.
Second, we also have this post from dustball in the diary section:
Osaar received a surprise phone call in recent days from Dwayne Walker. No... it wasn't to test his interest in playing the D side of the ball. It was to tell him to be patient. DW called Osaar to offer him encouragement and make sure he wasn't leaving the program.
Lastly, it is not just dustball who is talking about Walker "preparing" for an interim position. Check out this long thread (subscrip. req'd) initiated by a poster named "lawman222" on BRO's premium message board (subscrip. req'd) last week:
Obviously I cannot cut and paste the content of those posts from behind BRO's subscription firewall. However, the title of the posts in that thread are pretty self-explanatory. Lawman222, who has been one of the biggest pimpers of Walker on BRO premium board, is openly campaigning for Walker for the HC position. Moreover, the guy doesn’t refute the perception that he is, uhm, well "connected." If you scroll down from the top of the thread, you will see the subthread under EZBEACH4’s response entitled, "If ALL that is true … .you’re right …" In that sequence, EZBEACH4 ponders "You sound like you KNOW something?" Again, those of you who have access to the premium boards can look up the content of these posts, and will find that Lawman222 is providing information that leads one to speculate that there is lot more than just rumor mongering going on in terms of Walker being already considered as the "interim HC" auditioning for the permanent position at UCLA.
Again, for anyone who wants to discount all of this ala Brian Dohn, dismissing it as gossip, I don’t need to provide laundry lists of how so many times stories have appeared in the new media of blogs and message boards first.
To me it seems like something is definitely up. People are talking. And I don’t believe all of these are just dramatic coincidences. If all of this is just BS, and Walker indeed has no part in any kind backstabbing effort to replace his current boss (which is our Doofus), then I believe he has a responsibility to publicly clear the air and pledge his support and his confidence in the current head coach. If he doesn’t, not only would it be telling, but I think it would also could lead all of us to speculate that the work environment around this program is toxic since there is no sense of trust among the staff.
And if anyone here thinks that we are being too difficult on Walker, and are wondering why we aren’t giving him the benefit of the doubt, I will respond by saying (as I have already said in the comment threads), I am not going to cut a guy a lot of slack who was dumb enough to think it was a good career move to get himself into a position where he would find himself answering to a doofus like Dorrell.
So with all that on the table, I think based on the info we have floating around the interwebs, it seems reasonable to speculate Walker may be an alleged backstabber. Of course, he can change all of that by coming out and clarifying his loyalty and confidence in his current boss. If he doesn’t, then I think this labeling is a fair game. However, all that said I want to keep an open mind about this. If you strongly believe we shouldn't keep calling Walker as Backstabber (A) despite all the information that is floating out there, please let me know why in a respectful and constructive way in the comment threads. I am more than confident we can have an interesting discussion and find the best way to move forward and reach a consensus why we need a clean break from the Dorrell regime (which means no one from his staff should be considered for the next HC) at the end of this season. Thanks.
GO BRUINS.
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Don't disagree something is going on
UCLA writes DWs checks and that is who he works for. He is not KDs employee. We all know KD is incompetent, and we almost all agree that DW would be a better coach than KD, so I don't see the problem with DW being ready to take over should the admin fire KD mid season.
Not sure why you think working for KD is a bad career move? He has total autonomy on how he runs the defense, he is getting great publicity as a top notch defensive coordinator (got offered the ND DC job last year), and could wind up the UCLA head coach. I don't see that as a dumb decision at all. Not sure why you do.
by silverlakebruin on Oct 24, 2007 8:39 AM PDT reply actions
I see your point, but
I think there is no question that DW is angling for the job, and that his supporters are in overdrive trying to exploit the weaknesses of the alumni base into getting DW the head coaching job. You are 100% correct; something is going on, and we'd be foolish to dismiss it. In fact, we should highlight it, and do what we can to react to what is happening.
That said, I don't think there is any need to attack it by calling DW a backstabber. Perhaps this resonates more with some people than myself, but this tact has a couple of problems in my opinion (even if it's 100% true).
(1) I am uncomfortable with personal attacks. I may be misunderstanding you, and forgive me I have, but his seems like one. And I think it distracts somewhat from the point. In my view, the problem isn't so much DW the man, but the fact the credentials aren't what UCLA deserves in a new head coach. I'd prefer to high road and assume that he's a good guy (though, if he does anything inappropriate to deserve criticism, that is of course fair game), but there is no need to go personal when all we need to know is DW's coaching limitations (he's just 1/2 of a good defensive coordinator imho) and lack of head coaching experience;
(2) I wouldn't be all that outraged, personally, even if someone were to establish that DW is a backstabber. We've finally gotten to a point where nearly everyone can see that KD is out of his league. And I, for one, wouldn't feel all that sorry for KD, even if shown incontrovertible evidence demonstrating that one of his subordinates is after his job. And, while some may disagree, I don't think it's reasonable reasonable to expect DW (or anyone else) to swear his loyalty to KD. KD is a loser; I wouldn't expect DW (who I have mixed feelings, frankly, about) to kiss his ring.
In the end, I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion- the writing on the wall certain supports what you suggest. That said, whether or not DW is a backstabber isn't something that concerns me greatly. Instead, I'm much more concerned about what I see is a repeat of what we've seen before. Once again, we have some snake oil salesman affiliated with an unproven assistant coach trying to sell us a bill of goods. Part of me says, here we go again. And, frankly, it angers me that these same people, some of whom had supported Lavin, and were pimping KD to begin with, are pulling this bit again, and also that other well-meaning UCLA fans might let such people get over on them.
So, I guess I'd focus my energy on making sure that we don't let such folks pull the same old fast one, and sell us a second rate guy instead of what we deserve (e.g. , a homerun, Spurrier-type hire). Of course, I understand why the DW pitch is gaining some traction in places. But, that's just because DW's backers are preying on long suffering Bruin fans like ourselves who have seen so much inconsistency and heartbreak that they are primed to accepted anyone who doesn't have the initials KD. They are so thirsty for genuine success (and hope, as opposed to mediocrity) that they would down a quart of caster oil before they saw through the mirage. We just have to focus on DW's inadequate credentials to do so.
Just my two cents.
Now that's good stuff ...
Awesome
by Peter Petersen on Oct 24, 2007 9:13 AM PDT reply actions
A couple of points
But we don't know what happened. It looks like there are three sources for the story - Dienhart, dustball and the guys in BRO. Pardon me, Nestor, if I discount BRO. I haven't seen much of anything from that site (admittedly not the premium site - why pay for trash when Nestor et all give us BN for free?) but what I have seen doesn't inspire confidence. Last time I checked, it looked like a bunch of Bill and Ted clones trading junior high school insults. Plus, the sources are anonymous. Anyone can claim to have an impeccable source when the posting is anonymous.
I therefore give no weight to the substance of the content of the BRO posts.
That leaves Dienhart and dustball, who I find to be much more credible. Dienhart is a special case, in that he puts his reputation and his job on the line in everything he writes. I think the likelihood that he would make up a source and make up a story is zero or so close to zero as to not be worthy of discussion. We are dealing with hearsay upon hearsay, of course, because Dienhart is telling us what his source told him. But once again, Dinehart makes his living as a writer, and he would be risking his livelihood if he didn't have confidence in his source. More on Dinehart below.
Dustball is the final source for all of our thinking and speculation. I give dustball higher marks for credibility than some anonymous poster, because he has revealed bits and pieces of himself that give us reason to think his story has a basis in fact. (Similar in a way to the story from the mother in law of the guy who CTS "allegedly" fired by way of a text message.)
And unless I'm mistaken, the moderators could relatively easily find someone who wasn't trying hard to hide using the information we revealed when we registered here. One would think that enough people read the BN posts that some of what dustball said and the reactions to it would have gotten back to Rasshan and his family, and they would have said something if dustball was just plain making things up.
My conclusion based on all this is that the meeting as initially described by Dienhart took place, and the interim head coach position was floated, exactly as Dienhart reported.
Nestor, you feel that the source for the Dienhart story was Coach Walker, and your reasoning is explained as follows: "I am not sure how else to interpret the sentence that Dienhart "should have cleared things with DeWayne." To me, that sounds like it was DeWayne who was doing all the talking to Dienhart."
I read Dienhart's message just the other way. I read it as he was saying he should have called Coach Walker to get verification of the story he had heard elsewhere. (And in case you're wondering, I posted all the e-mails I exchanged with Dienhart, so my take on the meaning of his sentences is no better or no worse than yours.)
sjh posted something about when he was an investigative reporter that he dug up something about some bad thing (can't remember exactly what), but couldn't run it because he needed two sources. It looks like Dienhart ran something with one source, and lacking the second had to pull it down.
But the bottom line for me is that one sentence in one post is not enough for me to conclude that Coach Walker is the source. He might be, he might not be.
In summary, and using the criteria I'm most familiar with, your thesis is that Coach Walker should be deemed a backstabber basically because he was the source of the rumors on BRO and was the source of the rumor to Dienhart.
I am not convinced that this is so. Each of us is ultimately our own judge. As for me, I don't think you established that Coach Walker was the source of the rumors.
But I'll handle the appeal for you. I will write to Dienhart and ask him flat out if Coach Walker was his source, and if he's willing to answer and let me publish his answer you'll see what he says.
Not exactly the question of the day, but certainly not far off topic, if I were asked whether I would be satisified with Coach Walker as an interim coach for the balance of the season, I would say sure, because it would mean CTS is gone. I do not think Coach Walker should be made head coach for the reasons we've all articulated a million times, but if the only two choices in the world are Coach Walker and CTS, there really isn't a decision to be made - it's a no-brainer.
Well reasoned, as always
My only real disagreement is what you say in the last paragraph. I know you know this, but, of course, it's a false premise to suggest that there are only two choices, KD or DW.
Besides lacking foundation, by good counselor, posing the question in such a way is also unduly prejudicial.
First and foremost, as I'm sure you'd agree, it isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. While I admittedly have more faith in DG than you, I still feel reasonably confident that nothing besides winning out and a Rose Bowl appearance will save KD's hide this time.
Secondly, while I have no doubt that you wouldn't, I am afraid that there is a frighteningly large segment of the alumni base that will be swayed by the "all or nothing" sort of thinking. Again, I know you don't view things this way; but other people do. As I suggested in a comment above, I really think that many folks are so starved for a coach other than KD, that they would literally accept anyone if offered a Faustian deal including KD's immediate dismissal.
And, though you may think I'm just quibbling about something insignificant, I don't think I am. There is only one thing worse than not firing KD; it's firing him and screwing up the replacement hire. And forgive me if I make a statement similar to the one I've just taken issues with. Namely, that if the only two choices in the world are a few more months of KD and a replacement that guarantees us at least 4 more years of mediocrity, there really isn't a decision to be made.
Of course, this wouldn't be so critical if hiring DW as an "interim" head coach wouldn't, for all practical purposes, give him a tremendous head start in a coaching search. Given UCLA's past history, I don't think we can trust that, should UCLA give DW the interim title, that there would be a genuine coaching search, or that DW would be compared apples to apples to any outside candidates. There would be tremendous bureaucratic inertia to keep DW on. There would be enormous resistance by alumni, who had already put DW in their corner, to change their minds. And the paradigm wouldn't be what it should be, i.e, how does DW compare to other potential candidates, but whether DW was "good enough" to stick around. Just like Lavin.
I sincerely believe that we are at a critical juncture at this very moment. DW and his backers are making their move. And they are having a degree of success in trying to get the matter decided early. And that scares the crap out of me.
I didn't make my last point well enough
I refuse to believe that there is no one on the planet with head coaching experience who would not want to audition for the UCLA gig. But that would be the only circumstance in which I would welcome Coach Walker (or anyone else with his lack of leadership experience.)
Either that
For whatever reason, this Walker thing has really gotten under my skin. I have that sinking feeling you get while you are watching something you've yearned for approach, and then slowly recede into the distance.
So a middle ground
That said I can respect how many of us can be uncomfortable with the idea of personal attacks for now, and instead focus on preemptively building our case against Walker based on the argument that he has had no head coaching experience whatsoever, and given our recent history in both major sports, we can't go through that night mare again.
I think you absolutely nailed it when you mentioned your fear about how a large segment of our alumni base could be swayed by the "all or nothing" sort of thinking, given how horrible Dorrell is. We have to speak up against settling for that kind of false paradigms now.
M - I don't think it could be a bad idea if you consolidate the thoughts you have laid out in your two detailed comments here. I think you are on to something I can get behind, despite our slight disagreement on whether or not we should be calling Walker as an alleged backstabber.
Preemptive Strike on Walker
I also do not feel as an outsider I can make an assessment of how actively Walker, or others working on his behalf, is also lobbying for change. Even the evidence that has come out in the last week or so has multiple interpretations. I feel for now, our efforts should be clearly focused on getting DG to recognize a change in HC is inevitable. We can begin our campaign for the next head coach after Dorrell is out of the picture. And, as I said in a previous post, if DW is the only alternative that DG is willing to consider, then DW, come on down! Of course, if that is DG's process for hiring the next HC, then we can all turn our attention to how he could have conducted such an inept search, but at least this, as Fox put it, reign of error, will be over.
Thank You Silverlake and Menelaus...
DW and backstabbing
Personally, I can't imagine a competent assistant coming to UCLA in the current environment. However, a good HC will always be able to find (after all this is his job) competent assistants to ensure that his winning program continues and prospers. The comment about losing recruits is a false flag. There will always be recruits who look terrific on paper coming to UCLA. If we lose some so what? We need to eliminate the current HC issue first and foremost. Those who want DW say that without him, all those recruits will go away.... I disagree as stated above.
Bill
DW took the job at UCLA
DeWayne has been a pretty good DC while at UCLA. Some people aren't impressed, but the defense has played better than they have in a long time. I'm sure he isn't always happy working for such a tool; like when your team loses to ND despite the D holding them to 140 yards of offense.
I'm telling you there could be a lot of discontent with KD in the locker room but we will never hear about it nor should we. Players absolutely do NOT openly criticize their coach, EVER. It is an unwritten rule, believe it. That being said, when your coach refuses to go for it on a 4th and 1 plenty of players on both sides of the ball are going to be a bit upset.
Karl Dorrell for President '08. Al least he won't run UCLA further into the ground.
by FullertonBruin on Oct 24, 2007 10:04 AM PDT reply actions
if there a lot of people on
by stephons on Oct 24, 2007 10:20 AM PDT reply actions
The Walker discussion could be moot
Which brings us to the second point. I think the Cal win went a long way in ensuring KD's return for another season. I have pointed out before that, if anything, the Cal win should further incriminate KD as a horribly unfit coach -- if you can beat Cal, then you should have surely beaten Notre Dame at home; plus, it also makes the Utah loss absolutely inexcusable -- with this team's talent UCLA should be right in the thick of the BCS championship run.
Unfortunately, the Morgan Center is going to spin the Cal win as evidence that KD is a coach capable of beating any top teams in the country, and that he should be given the opportunity to continue his good work.
With KD's uncanny luck, UCLA might very well finish no worse than 2nd place in the Pac 10 with a minimum of an 8-4 record with a trip to the Holiday Bowl. This, in DG's eyes, cannot be grounds for a KD firing. DG would face intense criticism from KD supporters, whose numbers vastly outnumber KD detractors, and who comprise the bulk of season ticket holders.
Thanks to the bonehead play-calling of another coach clown in Tedford -- plus KD's spin machine to pound into susceptible and misinformed Bruin fans to forget the horrible, inexcusable losses and to judge KD on the overall final record -- I truly believe that he (Tedford) last Saturday helped secure the return of KD for another season.
Therefore, I believe that DW's aspiration to become the next UCLA HC is short-lived and extinguished.
That leads to another scenario
But here is the rub. If UCLA keeps Dorrell with an 8-4, 2nd place finish in the Pac, then Walker may jump ship (with presumably his stock rising) knowing that the season may collapse on KD next season.
Torturous ways
I too am afraid that we may be saddled with a sub-Donahue clone, because I don't even think he will achieve as much as TD. We will drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out what it would take for DG to fire this clown. And if he were to fire him after a 8-4 season, it'd better be because he has someone great lined up, otherwise it will cause a poopstorm. I for one am readying myself for another year of KD. Next year, he will stink up the joint and DG can fire him comfortably. Hopefully someone good will still be available.
That being said, there are five games left, three against current top 10 teams (bite me SEC), one against our bete noire Wazzu in Pullman, and one against a bad team that somehow destroyed us the last time we played in their stadium. Odds are against KD. Furthermore, we are on the brink of being ranked. The last time that happened was against ND. A bunch of ranked teams lost and we could have moved up significantly. I fully envision another offensive meltdown up in Pullman.
Is this true?!?
DG would face intense criticism from KD supporters, whose numbers vastly outnumber KD detractors, and who comprise the bulk of season ticket holders.
I'm die hard UCLA but have not lived in SoCal for about 15 years so I am not really surrounded by the fan base. But being a fan and watching their football games religiously week in and week out - how can KD have more fans than detractors?!? I won't go into all the reasons that he is terrible - as they are all well documented over the course of his tenure - but I have a hard time believing that he has THAT MANY fans.
On another note - as much as I despise KD - I unfortunatly agree with your line of thinking. If we finish out 8-4 or better than we suffer through another year of KD. The only way I see the possibility of 8-4 (which I think we believe is possible with our tem talent) getting KD ousted is bad loses to Oregon and SUCk and another bowl loss. We are a major school in a major conference - his bowl record (with another loss) are easily grounds to trump any season success.
Sort of true
Thanks
This is the only Bruin blog (actually found it through SBN at halosheaven.com) that I go to so I don't know what everyone else is thinking. My point to the wafflers however - if you keep going back and forth then there is no consistency or discipline in the program. That means you have a shitty coach.
True?
Not true in my neighborhood of section 2. One example:
Immediately after the now infamous 4th and 1 this weekend, the sweet old lady in the row above me asked "what did they just do?" and when a few us picked up our jaws and informed her that yes, taking a delay of game penalty was indeed the plan, she started shouting "STUPID COACH", "STUPID, STUPID, STUPID COACH!!!" over and over from the depths of her little granny lungs, God bless her, through the entire change-of-possession timeout. And her message was heard pretty well; crowd volume had dropped so much that all the boos and cat calls were easy to hear.
I'm getting pissed just thinking about it. And when I start thinking how that must have been the dumbest, lamest, weakest play call ever - I only remind myself of the the sad, sad truth is that it was typical for KD, and this loser-of-a-play-call only ranks somewhere in his top 10.
by haywood nighttrain on Oct 24, 2007 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Good for her!
It's pretty clear, the only think that will keep KD around is winning, or beating a supposedly better team here and there. Everyone should know by nw that he is not qualified and that the wins come despite him.
Not too sure about this...
Azure Tide...
Gosh darnit, Walker! You call Prevent Coverage, or I'll find somebody who will!
WALKER
Oh no you won't, sir. Coach Dorrell, under operating procedures governing the UCLA althletic department, we cannot run a play unless both you, and I agree.
DORRELL
Gosh Darnit! ED(Kezerian)! As commanding officer of UCLA Football I order you to place the DC under arrest under charges of mutiny!
WALKER
This is not a formality sir, this is expressly why your commands must be repeated. It requires my assent, I DO NOT give it and furthermore, if you continue upon this course, and insist upon these orders without confirming this message first...
DORRELL
Kezirian, what're you waiting for?
WALKER
...I will act, backed by the rules of precedence--
DORRELL
I say again, as commanding officer of the UCLA football program, I ORDER...
WALKER
...authority in command, regulations number 815, to relieve, you, of, command, captain.
DORRELL
---to place the Ex-O under arrest, under charges of mutiny!
[Silence on Campus]
DORRELL
KEZIRIAN!!!!!
KEZERIAN
Coach, please, the DC is right. We don't win games unless Walker concurs.
WALKER
Sir, I think you need time to think this over.
DORRELL
I don't HAVE to think this over!
WALKER [staring at Kezirian]
Coach Dorrell, I relieve you of your command of this team. Assistant Director of Academic Services, escort the Coach to Murphy Hall, I'm assuming command.
DORRELL
You're not assuming anything!
WALKER:
Norvell, Babers, Connelly, Scott, Coach Dorrell is under arrest, take him to his office and cuff him to his desk!
Kezeriean
Captain, please...
WALKER:
NOWWW, ED!!
by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Oct 24, 2007 10:39 AM PDT reply actions
Niiiiice.
M
Wrong movie
Compare anything Capt. Queeg says with anything CTS says. You can't tell the difference.
Great movie
by Peter Petersen on Oct 24, 2007 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
I'm wiping Ocean Spray off ym monitor now...
BRAVO.
M
Way to put the "Spray"
This is the first time ever
(As an aside, I've never had the privilege of doing a spit take. I have unsuccessfully lobbied the director of every show, and explained how even the most tragic tragedy could be improved a teensy bit with a spit take.)
Maybe try some earlier operas?
Comedy aside, they were writin' some pretty good music back then.
Ahh, a convert
Get involved in opera, even if its community theater. For one thing, there is always a need for more people in the mens' chorus. And it's like "Surf City" - two girls for every boy. Some of the girls may be a little long in tooth, but what the heck.
Backstabber
Let's not discount the Donahue coattail
Booing=Wanting Dorrell fired?
The blindest blindo
by SuperBruinMan on Oct 25, 2007 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope all of you are right regarding
But on the other hand, if ticket sales continue to be strong, DG could either misconstrue that as strong support for KD, or an indication for DG that he really need not take any action and maintain the status quo.
Agree
I think, however, that season ticket sales were higher this year at least partly because of the ND game. At the start of the year, you could only get a ND game ticket if you bought a full season ticket package.
I figured
Dwindling Numbers
And FWIW, Trey Brown's cousin sits near me at the games and even he wants KD to be fired.
everyone likes DW
I think DW deserves a shot this season, so we can evaluate him outside the shadow of Dorrell. He took on a position with a program that appeared to be on the upswing (at least offensively), and he has kept up his end of the deal. I don't think he should be our only option, but I do think he's earned a chance. And to be quite frank, Dorrell is out of chances and has to be fired NOW.
Virtues.
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