Southern Cal Week: No Longer Sacrosanct (Thanks To Dorrell)

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 7:52 AM PST in Football Comment 61 comments

20 years ago when I first start following UCLA football on a day-to-day basis, the conventional wisdom in Bruin Nation (dominated by a loser Donahue mentality) went something like this:

I will take 1-11 season over an 11-1 one any time, if that one win/one loss involved the game against U$C

Ah yes, the game against Southern Cal is the only game that is supposed to matter to in the world of a low information, generic Bruin fan, who has no clue or junkie interest in the game of college football.

You know all the clichés to go with that game: throw all the records out of the window, it is us v. them, blah blah blah.

Yet, to me none of that matters this year.

I simply do not care about this UCLA football team. I used to hate the moron who is leading the team as a "head coach" for his lack of coaching. But given what transpired last week, I despise this loser as a person. Once again, here was the Doofus insulting the entire UCLA community just last weekend (emphasis mine):

"Let me put it this way," he said. "In every opportunity that I've had in my coaching career, it was never in my mind that I was dealing with a level playing field. I've had to do more to accomplish what I've accomplished.

The Doofus can back peddle all he wants, but the point is he never apologized for his race baiting remark insulting every man, woman, and child ever to bleed Bruin blue and gold. And now he cannot expect a united Bruin Nation, to join him in the only game that is supposed to matter in our football universe.

It just doesn't work that way.

Just because tradition demands it doesn't mean we lay aside our reservations and concerns about a rotting football program, which is being led by a despicable, selfish, shameless SOB.

We are not going to play the role of loyal soldiers and get into the superficial spirit of "Blue and Gold week" (the cheese eating surrender monkeys in Westwood have been so Dorrellized over the years, they don't even have the courage and conviction to call it "Beat `SC week").

What we saw yesterday was once again was an uninspiring, lifeless football program that still doesn't have a clue on what is it like to play to win. From the Mini Doofus himself:

The Bruins finished with 220 total yards, 20 on a touchdown run by Craig Sheppard in the fourth quarter. By then, Forbath had tacked on field goals of 31 and 28 yards and the Ducks still weren't showing signs of offensive life.

"It wasn't really necessary for us to force the issue," UCLA offensive coordinator Jay Norvell said. "We wanted to play to our strengths, play with our special teams and play with our defense, and not make any mistakes."

That is pretty much Dorvell football in a nutshell. A boring, lame, conservative backward mentality that will never get us to the promised land.

I understand there are many Bruin fans who are suffering from stockholm syndrome. If you have already forgotten what that is all about, here is Achilles's post again:

The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage exhibits loyalty to the hostage-taker, in spite of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, child abuse cases, and bride kidnapping.

And that is why you have retread columnists like Bob Keisser getting all giddy about the Rose Bowl, completely forgetting what a total disgrace and a disaster this season and last five years have been under the incompetent leadership of Karl Dorrell.

So the focus this week should not be about how much we despise Southern Cal. No one here on Bruins Nation, need to prove his or her street cred on Trojan hatred. We don't have to take a backseat to anyone when it comes to lampooning the corrupt thugs from Pom Pom's scandal tainted program. We have been there and done that.

The focus this week will continue to be shedding the light on a Doofus who has worn out of his welcome at Westwood, proven himself to be a selfish, shameless, incompetent tool who no longer deserves to be in a charge of UCLA's football program.

We deserve a football coach who actually loves UCLA, not insults it for the sake of preserving a job he doesn't deserve to begin with.

We deserve a football coach who gives us reason to be inspired and excited notwithstanding our opponent.

We deserve a football coach, who will not leave us only depending on hatred for our archrival to get excited about a football game.

Those are the things we need to talk about this week. This is not the week to lose sight of the big picture.

I don't care about how "fun" it is to "smash up" cars painted in TrOJan red. I don't care about "fun" bonfires.

What I know is last five years under the current incompetent loser has been anything but "fun". All it matters now is to make sure the Doofus is gone no matter what happens on Saturday.

Thanks to the Doofus "Beat SC week" is no longer sacrosanct. It doesn't really matter. And noting will change until the Doofus is gone.

GO BRUINS.

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Comments

C'mon - let's just be a fan for a week...

I've lurked on this board for awhile, and absolutely agree that KD ought not to be the coach of UCLA. But I could never, ever, say that the 'SC game or a Rose Bowl "reall doesn't matter."

Let's thrash 'SC, and let the chips fall where they may. And if that means retaining KD, I'll sigh, but still be in the stands next fall cheering my guts out. Those who choose to stop cheering for your alma mater because KD is retained, well, you're entitled to do that too, but I can't help but wonder about your priorities. And, as a side note, I think the "Dump Dorrell" ad in the Daily Bruin seriously set back the cause of attracting a top-flight coach to Westwood.

I'm not a UCLA player or coach. I'm just a fan. And that means rooting for my team come rain or shine. Hopefully Dan Guerrero makes the right choices. And in the meantime, here's to celebrating a big W in Exposition Park come Saturday night, and to taking the field in Arroyo Seco in January.

by Homester on Nov 25, 2007 8:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You are a perfect example

Of someone suffering from stockholm syndrome.

And think twice before you lecture me on what being a Bruin is all about.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 8:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not lecturing anybody...

You don't like the way I express being a fan, and I don't like the way others on this board express being a fan. So be it. And, as I said, I agree that KD ought to be replaced. But now you're talking about "hating" someone you don't even know, and not caring about 18-22 yo players who every day put on the blue & gold to play for your alma mater. I agree with most of your takes on KD's coaching ability. But I simply can't follow you down that intensely personal path.

by Homester on Nov 25, 2007 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Homester,

Many of us who care about those 18-22 yo players think they deserve better. There is no reason that a team with 20 returning starters should be barely 'bowl eligible.' There is no reason 18-22 yo players should be sent back into games after being injured. There is no reason 18-22 yo players should be consistently thrown under the bus by their "coach." The 18-22 yo players who will be on this team next year deserve to have a real coach instead of this loser destroying their season and possibly their careers. If you care for those players, you must agree that they need a real coach.

by AZBruin on Nov 25, 2007 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

AZBruin,

Everything you said is true. However, there is NO REASON that those 18-22 yo players should lose the support of the Bruins Nation simply because their head coach is a "Doofus." I will be at the Coliseum on Saturday to root on our team, NOT our pathetic excuse for a coach. I still despise that team across town and want to destroy them on Saturday. I will make no excuse for getting into the spirit of rooting on our TEAM against our hated rivals this week. Remember...its UCLA vs $uC, NOT Dorrell vs $uC. And on Monday, given DG's comments regarding looking at the whole body of work this season, I believe we will find ourselves without KD!

GO BRUINS!

by rgalloucla on Nov 25, 2007 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, Nestor,

"it is not a matter of Life and Death, it's a little more important than that" were words uttered about the rivalry - the BEST one in CFB (SCREW YOU Harvard Yale, Cal Stanford, Oklahoma and ANYBODY, oh and of course borrrrring OSU Michigan) by none other than Henry "Red" Sanders, the architect of the one and only Bruin Football NC.

It was said quite awhile before 87, and "Red" had been gone almost 30 years by then anyway, so understandable that you'd miss it.

Anyway, allow the week to progress the way it should for those of us who agree that the coaching change is both necessary and inevitable without a buncha name calling, okay? Think Franchione, Franchione, Franchione . . .

Besides, while its possible UA squeaks past a demoralized ASU,
if what I witnessed yesterday from tunnel 27 shows up at the coliseum unaltered next week, prepare for 66-19 2.0, or something worse. It was like watching the ND game again - 'cept the result was reversed. It also reminded us all that the sideliners making comfortable six figure salaries could learn something about playing a field position game (which they did with no appreciable offense) but it begs the question why did it take these well paid "Professionals" one whole game (ND) and its humiliating aftermath to learn that lesson? You, AD Dan, wanna field that one?

The Mad Bruin

by lostnacfgop on Nov 25, 2007 8:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know

what Saturday's game means to us. And I have heard of that quote you reference. I actually have 2 t shirts with that quote around this game.

But all of that is outweighed by the fact that our football team is being held hostage by an incompetent, selfish, a**hole posing our head coach. He needs to go. And until he goes, nothing will be sacred.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, this is Beat 'SC week

Live life for the present. This is Beat 'SC week. If we beat them and ASU falls we win the Pac-10 and go to the Rose Bowl! That's all that matters. If you whine & complain about everything, you'll never get to enjoy what's right in front of you. Yup, I'll spend the few hundred $$$ for 'SC tickets and be at the Coliseum cheering on our Bruins. It may be the last time to hear the Victory Bell ring for us.

by mark the bruin on Nov 25, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahab Syndrome

Yes, Dorrell is a weak coach. Whatever the reason(s), the talent at UCLA doesn't seem to be developed, and the team too often comes out flat against weaker opponents. But you've jumped the shark, my friend. You mention Stockholm Syndrome, but it appears you're now the victim of what I'll call "Ahab Syndrome". From the point of view of this life-long Bruin, your single-minded obsession with Dorrell has taken you over in a rather disturbing way. You care more about bagging your Moby Dick than beating $C. Again, you care more about bagging your Moby Dick than beating $C. Think about it.

by Quique on Nov 25, 2007 8:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Whatever

I don't really care much about some clown who has previously only popped up to support Carnesale's accomplishment at UCLA. Go Cheney yourself and get back to sipping wine and cheese w the losers from Murphy Hall.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Your analogy is apt

Only if Moby was circling in the water, continuously trying to sink Ahab's ship. If that were the case, then I'm pretty sure Moby Dick wouldn't have become a classic novel, and would be rather stupid actually. Obviously that's not what the book is about, so you're either trying to rewrite classic literature here or you're using a false analogy. Pick one.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If

Betting Suc means that we are stuck with Dorrell again for another year..well yeah then I don't care if Suc destroys UCLA.

Last year the Suc game saved this morons job and it can happen again

You can call me a traitor and whatever other names that you want...but I'm rooting for us to lose so there is absolutely no way for Dorrell to be retained. This is what Dorrell has done to me...made me root against us to ensure that he is fired!

I also believe the way Suc has been playing the last couple of weeks they should destroy us. Last year was a miracle and this year Pete will have his players ready. ANd I sure has hell know Dorrell can't coach so it should be one ugly game!

So yes I'm a traitor, for 1 week which is fine with me if it means getting rid of this incompetent simpleton!

by abby8065 on Nov 25, 2007 8:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

KD GONE should be the overriding consideration

and there is no treachery in that sentiment.

And the truth is, you could cheer all you want for a KD miracle in "coaching" UCLA to an upset over SC. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

This is one game where UCLA needs coaching to win, and we haven't had coaching for 11 games, and it is not going to magically appear in game 12.

by bluegold on Nov 25, 2007 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is bg

I actually see lot of scenarios in which we beat SuC.

TrOJan offense is not all that. Their QB is not very mobile (not very smart). Their RBs do not scare me. And they have sick talent at receivers, but none of them are invincible.

Our defense is perfectly capable of hitting them in the chin, get their predictable pro-set O all rattled. And I can see us scoring some opportune points on offense.

This is the kind of game losers Lavin and Duhrell pull out over teams that have more talent, but eminently beatable.

So I see us being those losers. What I want to make sure that even if we beat those SCums, Duhrell is still let go next week.

Remember 13-9 happened w/o UCLA having a head coach (just like all those teams during Lavin years went to Steve-16 playing w/o a head coach).

We don't need the Doofus to beat SCum. We already did it once. And we should have done it 2 years ago at the Rose Bowl.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 9:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo!

We can get all hyped up about this game, but with KD and JN running our offense, what's to get hyped up about. I suspect that DW will come up with something to slow the trojans down, but with no offense, there's no way we stay with SC. I just don't see it. If KD had showed us some imagination in the past, then maybe I'd give us a shot.

Rivalry game or not, you hit the nail on the head though. We have to have coaching to win, and we don't have that.

by NickBruin on Nov 25, 2007 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"Go Cheney yourself"?

This might explain everything. I'm betting you and Karl Rove have never been seen together. I knew this pattern of avoiding substantive issues and instead resorting to personal attacks reminded me of someone. I just didn't know that you/Rove were so dedicated to following college athletics. And, just out of curiosity, is there anything or anyone left at UCLA, other than Howland, that you still like?

by Quique on Nov 25, 2007 8:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

LOL

You can scroll back and read posts from last 2+ years and figure out what I like about UCLA. If you still can't figure that out, then you will probably find yourselves in the same demographics (in terms of your IQ) of voters that Rove gear his message toward. You are all mixed up. Then again who can blame you. A "Dear Leader" loyalist like you thinks Carnesale was a good chancellor. Later.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

how about we leave politics out of this?

How 'bout we stop ASSUMING everyone agrees with your politics... I know UCLA swings in one direction politically, always has.... but you're going to alienate more people if you start throwing in political insults, using names as pejoratives just so you can come off looking clever.

What if I say go 'Hillary' yourself, or go 'Clinton' yourself? Am I gonna get booted off this site? Let's leave insults out. Cheney, I agree may not be the perfect example of a statesman, but don't just ASSUME everyone agrees with your politics.

Nestor, you're running a great blog/website here,a terrific venue for us alums...

please don't blow it by getting too personal and resorting to tantrum-like diatribes, not only insulting others' logic, but also spewing vitriolic political attacks. Let's stick to our beloved Bruin tradition...

Then again, you do run this site and can choose to do what you want, but know that some of us don't appreciate all your rants, esp. if they border on the personal.

W.S. Montano Class of 1994

by wsmontano1994 on Nov 25, 2007 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pay attention, Montano

"Go Cheney Yourself" is a clever-but-frequently-used reference to the DICK's boorish behavior on the Senate floor, when he said the actual phrase to Senator Patrick Leahy. You remember Leahy, he was one of the Senators who got anthrax mailed to him. How's the search for that terrorist coming these days? (okay, that was snide) Montano, do you take all expressed opinions that are contrary to yours "personally?" I dIdn't think that the comment was "Vitriolic" or "personal" in anyway, but then again I think that Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter should be devoutly ignored, as they really are adding no value that is not vitriol. Vitriol is being asked why you "hate America" because you've got an anti-Iraq war sticker on your car.

Sorry, its rivalry week, and my heart wants a miracle, but my brain is expecting 66-19 2.0. For the morbid among us, the average margin of $C victory at home in the era of Excitement is 36 points.

The Mad Bruin

by lostnacfgop on Nov 26, 2007 5:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No one's taking it personally in the least...

I live in DC as I believe Nestor does as well. I am well aware of the Cheney remark on the Senate floor... I just want to make sure we are (dare I say it?) 'fair and balanced' and that 'the other side' can dish it our fair and square as well.

I just want to make certain that IF I were to use such remarks in my rhetoric, that I won't be lambasted for being of another 'persuasion' shall we say.

Hannity and Ann Coulter, I agree are not the ideal examples of honor and decency... but I can also bring out the Michael Moores of the world, hey, why not Hillary herself (as two extreme examples), and use them as prototypes of division in this country.

Life's too short to take ANY of this personally, so don't worry. There are so many other priorities in life.

I was only making the argument that if we're going to 'dish it out' in certain ways, then we need to be prepared to hear some in return, that's all. Our focus is on the Bruins, let's keep it the focus and not get personal. And I'm talking less about politics than I am about attitude here.

W.S. Montano Class of 1994

by wsmontano1994 on Nov 26, 2007 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Now to cut to the chase:

Yes, absolutely. I would take Cheney, Hannity, Ann Coulter, Michael Moore or Hillary (either Clinton or Duff) as head coach of the Bruins. The first three would be inclined to run right, the next two would run left, but they would not run up the middle. I neither know nor care what Ms. Duff would do as long as she doesn't say anything.

by Fox 71 on Nov 26, 2007 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Now . . .

THAT'S FUNNY!
Thanx, Fox.

The Mad Bruin

by lostnacfgop on Nov 26, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm surprised Fox knows of Hillary Duff

Because even I barely know who she is.

by Tydides on Nov 26, 2007 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but . . .

. . . Fox thinks she's heir to the Duff Beer fortune (D-Oh!)

The Mad Bruin

by lostnacfgop on Nov 26, 2007 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed, thanks Fox!

that was hilarious... a little levity always goes a long way!

W.S. Montano Class of 1994

by wsmontano1994 on Nov 26, 2007 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If a little political reference bothers you

then don't come here. You are not paying me and I am not working to serve you.

by Nestor on Nov 26, 2007 5:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

getting defensive again...

Like I said, N. You're doing a great job here (an EXCELLENT job, in fact) but a little mild criticism seems to be too much for you at times. You're almost too ready to dismiss someone and tell them to get lost.

My opinions aren't perfect, no one's is -- that's why they're 'opinions'...

I'm not asking for p.c. responses and a p.c. outlook on EVERYTHING (as is usually the case at UCLA) that would make this a dull site and extremely predictable. A little dissension is good, even necessary.

... You live in DC (I believe) as do I... we probably have a bit thicker skin (or should at least) when it comes to politics. I could care less what your pol. allegiances are, but I just want to ensure that as some can make certain political statements or gestures, that others won't get annihilated because they believe otherwise. On politics, that's my only point.

Your tone, above, however, seems a bit too easily unnerved. I was merely implying we should stick to our arguments on the team, the season, Dorrell, rather than questioning others' IQ scores, their ability to argue, etc.

Sometimes, it seems like we're bordering on the juvenile than on the constructive, reasoned arguments. That's my only point.

(yeah, I know, if I don't like it 'then don't come here'... you've made that clear already, not only to me but to many others)

either way, thanks for the forum... I appreciate your efforts regardless of our very occasional disagreements....

W.S. Montano Class of 1994

by wsmontano1994 on Nov 26, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You don't go to someone's house

and criticize the host. It's as simple as that. This is a blog Nestor and others have put together for themselves to discuss UCLA sports. It is not a news site or a message board. We are guests here. Writing comments and diaries is a privilege, not a right. It just so happens that, because of the hard-hitting honesty and breadth of information that this site offers, it has become very popular. Be that as it may, Nestor is not here to provide "sensible" and balanced opinions. If one does not agree with his opinions, it can be so stated without trying to change Nestor's writing. He's serving cold logic and brutal honesty for dinner, and if you don't like his cooking you don't have to eat it.

by tasser10 on Nov 26, 2007 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

let's clarify

I'm NOT criticizing the host, merely making a suggestion and pointing something out. Trying to be as honest as could be without being insulting and I would hope the same of the host.

I appreciate all N. & co. have done on this site, and I'm certain he/they has/have no hard feelings for me nor do I for him/them.

I am no one to try to change anyone's opinions... simply made a comment/suggestion, hoping it wouldn't be taken the wrong way, but also hoping my message would be considered, at the very least. If not, like I said, I'm simply one Bruin alum stating an opinion.

I want what we ALL want here... The Bruins to be a top FIVE team every year, a new coach, and to beat $C every time.

Again, my sincerest thanks to you all for this opportunity, to write, rant, opine...

BEAT SC!

Go Bruins!

W.S. Montano Class of 1994

by wsmontano1994 on Nov 26, 2007 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Blah!

Politics aside, there are many of us who are with Nestor on this one. Personally, I don't mind Karl Dorrell's Football Team getting hammered by USC one year if it means he's gone and someone competent is at the helm. Giving up one year in the interest of the prospect of running off another eight straight -- or more -- like the 90s is a difficult pill to swallow, but we do so, nonetheless.

I remember attending a USC-UCLA game a while ago with my neighbor who bled Cardinal and Gold. We both were in the stands screaming our heads out for UCLA -- because he wanted Paul Hackett canned. He told me it was a simple matter of pragmatism.

More importantly, Nestor and the others who post here aren't the cheese-eating-wine-sucking dilettantes who mindlessly root for UCLA when there is a systemic problem with the coaching staff (as Tom Osborne so aptly characterised the Nebraska coaching effort when he showed Callahan the gate).

It hurts, but Nestor is a true fan who only wants the (ultimate) best for UCLA. And I'm with him.

by whp68 on Nov 25, 2007 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's called Tough Love

It's interesting that you feel no hypocrisy in calling someone else out on "avoiding substantive issues" when you haven't brought any yourself and have resorted to "personal attacks". Then again, people who still support the Doofus and (UGH) Clownesale are usually lunatics and hypocrites, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. It also doesn't surprise me that you are not familiar with the concept of tough love. Truly loving something has nothing to do with unconditional support, it has to do with doing what is best. I hope your enabler attitude doesn't carry over into other realms like parenting for example (if you have kids). If so, then I guarantee that you're the guy with the bratty loud kids at the mall that everyone else wants to slap, but you're too damn oblivious to their awful behavior to even take notice.

Yeah, I said it. Your kids aren't perfect, and neither is this football team, and they need a heavy dose of Tough Love so that they may grow up to be respectable adults, and so that our football team can cast away decades of underachievement.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BEAT $uC!!!!

GO BRUINS! BEAT $uC! Fire Dorrell! These three ideas are not mutually exclusive. We can and should all agree to root for our team and its players, the true loyalists to UCLA, who go out and compete on a weekly basis in spite of our pathetic "coach". I will be rooting my @$$ off on Saturday to beat those cheating thugs across town. Then, I'll be rooting my @$$ off on Monday for a press conference that ends this Dorrell hell we've all been subjected to...ESPECIALLY the players!

GO BRUINS!

by rgalloucla on Nov 25, 2007 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Priorities

After it is all said and done, KD must go, first and foremost. Second, we must beat SUC. If both of these things happen, then you won't find a happier Bruin than me. If the second event happens but the first does not, I will not be happy, because it virtually guarantees that the second event will not happen as often as it must in the future.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

As a loyal Bruin fan...

I won't be happy if BOTH events don't happen. If we beat $uC and keep Dorrell, that would be grounds to question DG's job security, given the horrible tenure CTS has put us through. If we lose to $uC and Dorrell is fired, I will not be happy either. Yes, it will be good to rid our program of Dorrell, BUT we will be forced to endure another 365 days of hearing from TrOJies all over about the win over us that sent them to the Rose Bowl. Make no mistake about it...NOBODY SHOULD BE HAPPY UNLESS WE BEAT THOSE TROJAN A-HOLES AND DORRELL IS FIRED! Anything less will be a let-down.

Also, CTS andcompany will be leaving the cupboard pretty dry (or at best, very young, assuming we hold on to our top recruitibg class) for whomever else takes over at the helm. This will be the best chance we have to Beat $uC over the next 2 or 3 years. We MUST take advantage of it!

GO BRUINS!

by rgalloucla on Nov 25, 2007 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I see I have an empty spot

on my truth table, and that's because I can't really predict how I'll feel if we lose and the Doofus is canned immediately. It will be the disgust I feel every time SUC actually manages to beat us in something measured against the incredible feeling of relief of the Doofus' reign of error finally coming to an end. I know what the first part feels like all too well (thanks to the Doofus). I don't know what the second part feels like obviously because it hasn't happened yet. I imagine they will come close to canceling each other out, but I make no guarantees.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

I know only too well how it feels after getting beat by justsc. I don't know how it feels to have a cancerous tumor excised from one's football program. I hope we beat justsc (although I put the odds of that happening as being nearly invisible), but no matter what happens, we cannot have another season with CTS. It's unendurable.)

by Fox 71 on Nov 25, 2007 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Me 2...

I was looking through the comments, amazed at how divided this whole KD situation has made us.

I agree...I am really conflicted about this week. I don't think that knowing KD will be gone if we lose will soften the pain of losing to those cross-town asshats.

I hate SC. Period. I don't like losing to them in anything...for any reason.

I disagree with Nestor. This week is and always will be "sacrosanct" for me. It's sad that KD and his staff have taken that feeling away from him, but it will never be that way for me. That doesn't mean that either one of us is a better Bruin for feeling the way we do.

I will be screaming my head off for my Bruins on Saturday...even if it means that DG uses that as an excuse to keep KD.

But I think DG is smarter than that...

by bbuclabruins on Nov 25, 2007 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Everything wrong with the

I guess before you get your turn to nail me to the cross, I am obligated to say that I too, like most individuals, absolutely want to see Karl Dorrell fired. However, I'm pretty sure that's where we go our separate ways for this post is absolutely everything wrong with the anti-Dorrell movement.

This isn't about flowery statements like stockholm syndrome, the weak justification for people not agreeing with BN (Seriously, what the hell? People can't have their own opinion about something without some bullshit name-calling?). It isn't about the fact that Nestor blames his 'scapegoat for why everything in the world is wrong', Karl Dorrell for a decision made by the Alumni Association (Beat 'SC week is now Blue and Gold week because they merged the Homecoming and 'SC Week festivities since neither one drew that large of a crowd. It breaks my heart, but that's life).

This is about the fact that there is so much damn over-zealous hatred in this post that its hard to even figure out where to begin, or why I should even stand on your side with this Fire Karl Dorrell movement.

A frequent question that comes up when a situation like ours with our head coach has came about, people ask the question, "Can you REALLY root against your school in order to get rid of the coach?" I have a hard time answering this, because, frankly, I feel it depends a lot on the person. Some people are completely comfortable with throwing their school under a bus to let that end (the firing of the coach) justify the means (the losses), with the goal of making that school better. It's all well intentioned, I understand. However, I am one of those people who can't throw my University under the bus, no matter how much I hate the coach. I'll stop going to games, stop watching on TV, but I won't root for us to lose. Rooting for us to win or loose has ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING EFFECT ON THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME! So really, its pointless, either way. Who the fuck cares if I get worked up for the USC-UCLA game, even if we have the slimmest chance in hell of winning? It doesn't hurt anyone, and certainly, Dan Gurerro is not going to keep Dorrell because I rooted for UCLA.

All that aside, I could never get myself to root for USC, even for one game just so our coach is gone. It's pretty sad, I think, that some people want to, but that's their choice and I (at least) RESPECT that.

A lot of us live and work with individuals from 'Second Choice, and never do I want to see joy in their eyes. I never got the chance to see the Victory Bell as a student at UCLA and I don't want to deny that to the current students. Its not their fault either that Karl Dorrell is their coach.

USC-UCLA may not be the biggest or most intense rivalry in all of sports, but its a pretty damn good one. I'm not ready to forfeit that from my life because I hate the head coach.

Probably the single biggest thing that no one is talking about and that we should REALLY think about before we get rid of Karl Dorrell is the fact that Michigan, Nebraska, and Texas A&M are all looking for head coaches already (switch Michigan with LSU if Miles goes to Ann Arbor). Whether you want to believe it or not, those are bigger football schools than UCLA. We will get KILLED in the battle for a head coach comparably. And God, I hope that no one tells the sucker that takes the job that he has one of the most angry, aggressive fan bases on earth that will turn and kill his first born child if they don't magically establish a football tradition in the first year. Dorrell is God awful, but really, a lateral move at head coach would be incredibly disappointing.

In the end, winning against 'SC really shouldn't save his career. Dan Gurerro HAS to have made up his decision before this game. This is still the same coach with a streaky record and blow outs against really, really bad teams. That doesn't get erased and there's enough fire under his seat now to maybe do something. If Dorrell's job is saved by a victory over USC, then we need to turn on Dan Gurerro, and hopefully, not blow it this time by using a little more tact.

P.S. I'd re-evaluate the use of "stockholm syndrome" if I were you, especially after seeing how militant this anti-Dorrell movement "by any means necessary" has become. That's what breaks my heart with this Anti-Dorrell movement. You can't live in the BN bubble thinking that you're right and everyone else is wrong. It's about convincing people that we need a change and getting angry about it just turns people off. I know it has turned me off.

by dbthree on Nov 25, 2007 10:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I know I don't give a damn

who you root for this weekend. There are people who support the team no matter what and people who want what is best for the program. These goals aren't usually different but in this case, it is. All I know is that unlike last year, even beating SUC should not save his job. Beating SUC does not erase the 5 embarrassing losses we have endured this season.

It is disingenuous to pretend that the tone here is "militant" when you have hacks in the MSM pleading for KD to stay based zero football related reasons and morons springing up with "dontdumpdorrell" and playing the Race Card, making this entire situation personal to each and every Bruin fan. Given what has transpired over the past couple of weeks, Bruin fans have every right to be angry, and if you can't see why, then frankly, I don't care if it turns you off.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Please, give me a break.

There are plenty of articles from various sources, the LA Time, Daily News, even ESPN.com that give the pros and cons of Dorrell. BN's favorite piece of literature appears to be the infamous article on ESPN.com in 2002 about how hiring Dorrell was a bad move, which is a GREAT piece to cite. Sounds a bit hypocritical to herald this as the gospel, yet blame "the media" for everything wrong. It isn't their job to demand that KD be fired, so don't expect it from them. Their job is to sell newspapers. But that's neither here nor there.

Anyways, separate from all that. Your last line IS my point. Believe it or not, I too, am an alum and a bruin fan, and you don't have a monopoly on that. I know you truly, in your heart, believe that what you're doing is some noble cause and that "you know what's best for me and my team". I on the other hand think you're taking our team hostage and ruining a great opportunity to get a new head coach by sounding so damn pissed off all the time. That's what I mean about turning people off and sounding angry. Just because Dorrell is an idiot doesn't give BN an excuse to act like one, too.

All I ask is a little tact and poise, two concepts that appear to be completely foreign to this place.

by dbthree on Nov 25, 2007 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah "Tact and Poise"

Coming from a hypocrite who claims that I'm holding a monopoly on what being a "Bruin fan" is while telling others how they should express their views as a fan, excuse me while I dismiss your claims. Again, it is completely within our rights as fans to be angry about being called racist for pointing out that someone is a bad coach. Again, what part of "I don't care who you root for this weekend" sounds like "I know what's best for you and the team"? It doesn't, because you're attacking a strawman. If you don't like the tone that was created by KD's on field incompetence, off field mismanagement, and a race-baiting article that labels us all as racists, then leave. If you think BN is acting like "idiots" according to your own self-imposed definition of the word, then leave. If this place doesn't meet your standards of "tact and poise" (nevermind the hypocrisy of accusing me of defining what a Bruin fan is then turning around and telling BN what it should and should not write) , then leave. You won't be missed. Hypocrites usually aren't.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wonderful. All falling on deaf ears.

No where in my comments did i tell you what you should or shouldn't write. I'm telling you that, in my opinion, you are HURTING the fire dorrell cause. You're pulling straws, grasping each one and this "Dorrell is a racist" seems to be the coup you've been looking for. Just like the Eric Scott thing months ago. God help us if you could, I don't know, use his pathetic coaching record, as a reason for firing him. That's where "tact and poise" come in, not when bantering on a message board or in a blog's comment section.

There are thousands of us that support the concept of getting rid of Dorrell, its the message and the way its told that is bothering us. Not so many of them stand up here and say so because they get belittled just as you just so predictably did.

by dbthree on Nov 25, 2007 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Making yourself look like a total moron again. Uhm who the heck are you? Just what have you done in building consensus on our incompetent head coach? All you are doing is having a little hissy fit on a tone of a post that doesn't say anywhere we are rooting for UCLA to lose against SuC.

If you want to craft your message around fire KD, then why not do it. Why not write a substantive post saying why DG should fire Dorrell after we beat the Trojans on Sat? If you actually wrote something coherent, we would have been more than happy to bump that post on the front page.

Instead you are just whining like a concerned troll. We don't care much about concern trolling on BN.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for your opinion

It's not like they're a-holes and everyone has one or anything. If Doofus' character is so important (and it apparently is given the nature of the articles being written that want to keep him), then what is wrong with debunking those myths and showing how these articles are irresponsible and false?

Excuse me if I'm skeptical that someone who hasn't yet demonstrated that he knows what "tact and poise" is is demanding it out of a blog.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and by the way

Rooting for us to win or loose has ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING EFFECT ON THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME! So really, its pointless, either way. Who the fuck cares if I get worked up for the USC-UCLA game, even if we have the slimmest chance in hell of winning? It doesn't hurt anyone, and certainly, Dan Gurerro is not going to keep Dorrell because I rooted for UCLA.

Way to not be angry and show Tact and Poise. What a great example you set. Hypocrite.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What?

I'm not printing ads in the Daily Bruin saying that it doesn't matter who you root for this weekend. I'm not demanding tact and poise in this back and forth banter, I'm demanding tact and poise when it comes to the external message to the Bruin fans that exist outside these friendly confines.

by dbthree on Nov 25, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And who are you to demand anything?

You are nobody. This isn't the Daily Bruin either. Next.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Then

why don't you go outside and do your part in taking that message? Stop whining like a little baby.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I think you were looking for David Broder's column in Sunday's Washington Post. So sorry to offend your sensibilities.

All I wrote was I don't care about this Saturday's game. But that doesn't mean that I am rooting for us to lose. If you took my post that way, than that is your problem.

Otherwise if you want to whine about tact and poise and find kindler and gentler Bruin conversation where no one is talking about elephant in the room, then do it somewhere else.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

A lot of people took it that way, judging by the comments. When you tell people that you don't care if we get the loss, I can see where the confusion comes. I completely agree with you when it comes to not getting as excited as one would like.

by dbthree on Nov 25, 2007 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

If I cared about what "lot of people" (translation the morons who have supported the Doofus for years) think then I wouldn't have offered the takes that I have been offering for 3+ years.

Yes, I don't care about this weekend's SC game. But that doesn't preclude me from rooting for my Bruins. Its a simple concept really. And I believe except for few people, everyone here got it.

Not sure what people you are referring to unless you are talking about morons on other boards who had been supporting the Doofus all these years and who supported Lavin till the last year.

by Nestor on Nov 25, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably some misunderstanding

I think some people don't realize that you mean that the game doesn't mean anything in the context of whether the Doofus should be retained or not. Anyone who has been here more than a week could probably read between the lines and get that, but there's always a few dense people who won't.

by Tydides on Nov 25, 2007 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If you believe what you say --

you are a part of the problem.

No disrespect dbthree -- but by making the following statement, you make clear you are part of the problem, not the solution.

How can you say "is the fact that Michigan, Nebraska, and Texas A&M are all looking for head coaches already (switch Michigan with LSU if Miles goes to Ann Arbor). Whether you want to believe it or not, those are bigger football schools than UCLA. "?

They were NOT bigger football schools than UCLA until KD took over.

Lest you have forgotten, we have beaten each of those teams -- and should ALWAYS be in a postion to beat them.

Accepting the current status of our program as the best it can be is not helping.

All of you who continually lower the bar -- especially with statements that cannot be supported with history or fact -- doom us to more mediocrity.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Nov 25, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One last thing

Like you said "In the end, winning against 'SC really shouldn't save his career. Dan Gurerro HAS to have made up his decision before this game"

That maybe true or not true..but I'm sorry I'm not taking any chances that if KD pulls another miracle out of his ass that he might be the head coach next year!

Don't you remember he should have been fired last year but the win gave him an extra year.

This is turning into the same exact scenario. So I'm sorry as bad as I might be I'm rooting for UCLA to lose.

One lose to Suc in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean that much but it should finally ensure KD's departure!

If he happens to win...the KD supporters will start talking about how he beat number 9 Oregon (without Dixon) and probably 8 USC, and they will bring up all the injury excuses... etc.

Sorry whatever it takes to finally get rid of this clown and if that means a beat down by Suc so be it. Also, during KD's tenure I'm used to us losing to Suc so it won't be that big of a shock of it happens again.

by abby8065 on Nov 25, 2007 10:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It breaks my heart too...

That KD saved his job on that one win. But like I said, at the end of the day, if Dan Gurerro doesn't fire KD because of his pathetic record, if not the national embarrassments against Utah and Notre Dame, then maybe the focus should be on DG. He can't ride that "I found Ben Howland" free pass forever.

by dbthree on Nov 25, 2007 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Seems Like A No-Win Situation No Matter What

If we somehow manage to beat those SCumbags from across town next Saturday and (coupled with a 'Zona win over ASU)inexplicably wind up in the Rose Bowl game the case for the Doofus is strengthened and second thoughts would likely be had now that DG all but has his index finger on the trigger. I hope that's not how it plays out; I still want to beat SC but that CAN'T be enough to save Dorrell's goose - can it?

On the other hand, while a resounding Trojan victory will effectively put an end to this 4+ years of frustration, the mere thought of having the victory bell painted ketchup is enough to send me to Walgreens to stock up on Pepto.

While I want KD gone as much as anybody, I simply cannot bring myself to hope for us to lose this next week. My gut feeling is that we'll likely get thumped anyway no matter who is behind the center making all the above a moot point.

When all is said and done, I hope DG does a Tom Osborne and just calls up KD on Sunday morning and cuts the cord right then and there. Why the hell wait till Monday to do it?

by Minnesota Bruinfan on Nov 25, 2007 10:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

The regulars know my sentiments about CTS. To sum it up:

He is a horrible coach - the worst we've had in anyone's memory.
Despite his alleged degree from UCLA (proof of which I have yet to see), he is transparently stupid.
The "he cleaned up the program" mantra is meaningless, because all it means is that he played by the rules, which shouldn't get anyone any extra credit.
The suggestion that he is above all a man of integrity is demonstrably false. Scapegoating coaches, firing via text-message (allegedly, but I believe it to be true based on the evidence I've seen), effectively telling Matt Moore to transfer when he was listening in on the head set, the entire Eric Scott fiasco all show this.

I was one of many who cried out for this before last season started (although at that point I hadn't found the BN), and I pleaded with the football gods to get rid of him midway through last year, and then after the FSU disaster, then after Utah, then after ND, etc., ad nauseam.

And for the Kool Aid drinkers looking for another "hate-o-gram," this isn't it. I don't hate CTS, any more than I hate the neighbor's dog who barks all night and craps on my lawn all day. It's the dog's nature to do what dogs do. It's in CTS's nature to be a bad coach and to show not intelligence or integrity in doing so. I don't hate anyone. I hate the mind set that allows CTS to continue in place and that allows the football team to slide below mediocrity.

Now for the FWIW part. I can't bring myself to be indifferent or worse about playing justsc. I can't even remotely hope that justsc wins even if a win absolutely guaranteed CTS another year (which I hope is not the case.)

And another FWIW bit. In my opinion, my posts have less vitriol than others. I post sometimes just to get stuff off my chest, and other times to crack a joke. But on the serious stuff (e.g., the CTS stuff), I try to persuade. In my opinion, persuasion is more likely to occur when the adjectives are not mostly napalm. I throw no stones at anyone. I recognize that my opinion is not necessarily shared by all (although obviously it should be.)

by Fox 71 on Nov 25, 2007 11:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Root Cause

Agreed. I've monitored this site for years now without comment, but I have had enough.

What I don't understand is why are we not holding DG accountable for this personnel decision? It is his job to hire and retain the most appropriate individual. Doofus's performance on the field and his scapegoating off the field have been blatant indicators for years that he is not the right man for the job.

Why do we feel compelled to resort to conflict within our own consciences by wishing ill will against our own team so that Doofus will be fired? I admit I am guilty of it as well, silently hoping for a string of losses so that this will be the last year.

But what we are actually doing is hoping for the scenario that forces DG to fire Doofus. In reality, DG has free will. We are behaving as though DG does not have a mind of his own.

"The fish rots from the head down." All problems in an organization can ultimately be traced to the top, or at least to whoever holds the most power. If it is not DG, then it is the chancellor, or perhaps DG's fear of being seen as a racist. Don't get me started on the race card issue though..

Doofus is a problem, but the root cause lies elsewhere. Somebody prove me wrong.

by Undertow on Nov 25, 2007 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

KD is a problem, so is the fact that

he is black. No, that latter should absolutely not matter, but there are people like Streeter out there who make sure it matters.

It is against this backdrop that DG must weigh his actions.

Unfortunately, there are a set of criteria for firing a coach...plus another set for firing a black coach.

People can sugarcoat it, sweep in under the rug, or whatever. But DG cannot treat KD like he were just any coach.

It is what it is.

by bluegold on Nov 26, 2007 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If it were that simple

KD would not have been hired in the first place. There are forces that influence Guerrero too and he does not necessarily have the checkbook in his desk drawer.

by tasser10 on Nov 26, 2007 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The game matters

Screw the trojies. I hope they all die in the firey pits of hell where they belong. Evil like them must always be opposed by good like us. Kill them all.

by joeb on Nov 26, 2007 7:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs