Rolling The Dice ...

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 4:31 PM PST in Football Comment 51 comments

Let's get to the Chow to UCLA (with DeWayne Walker as his DC) rumors. This will be a red flag post on BN, just like we raised red flags over the hiring of Doc Wristen, Bob Connelly, Jay Norvell, and Jim Colletto. I think we have established a pretty good track record in this department over the years.

As they say, these rumors right now are "hot and heavy" all over UCLA online communities (and, no, its not just coming from EDSBS). People (read Dorrellistas), and certain groups of UCLA fans who always get all "hot and heavy" over some promising assistant coach "growing" into the head coaching position and proving themself to be the next John Wooden or Red Sanders), are already fantasizing about the idea of a Chow/Walker combination that would supposedly strike fear in the heart of TrOJans. There are just so many things wrong with this scenario I don't even know where to begin.

First of all, UCLA should never hire its head coach based on who will beat Southern Cal. People who try to adhere to this mentality are probably the same blowhards from the Donahue era who tried to sedate a UCLA fanbase by telling us that all is right with the world as long as we beat Southern Cal. You know, the same losers who were arguing for Dorrell to keep his job if he beat Southern Cal. These are the same losers who don't care about one underachieving 6-8 win seasons after another, as long as it was centered around beating Southern Cal. This is what kept Donahue on the job for five years too long. So the idea that we should hire Chow and Walker, two former assistants under Pom Pom, because that combo would give us the best chance to beat Southern Cal doesn't pass the smell test.

Also, I don't see how exactly Chow/Walker would strike fear into Heritage Hall. These guys are known commodities to Pom Pom. He knows their game and I am sure he is not worried about handling them on the recruiting trail.

Moreover, is there any evidence of Chow being a dynamic recruiter or personality, who would inject enthusiasm into our underachieving program? From what I have heard from friends who follow the Stanford football program very closely, this guy couldn't even sell himself in a set up that was supposed to be a slam dunk from him. Yeah, I get that Stanford made the wrong choice in Walt Harris. Yet, it was still Chow who completely "bombed" the interview when he had his chance. And that wasn't last time he bombed a hiring process. He wasn't even contacted by NC State when that job opened up last season. And reportedly ASU interviewed him, but went with Erickson. So all on a sudden we are supposed to be okay with UCLA taking a flier on this guy who has never led a team either in the NFL or in the pros?

And, make no mistake, going with Chow is rolling the dice as pointed out by Cal Poly Bruin over at Bruin Roar:

Negatives

For someone who has had amazing coaching success for over 30 years, you have to wonder why he hasn't been given a head coaching position? Many have speculated that Chow hasn't gotten a gig because he has an abrasive, take-it-or-leave-it personality. He had a very well documented fall-out with the USC coaching staff that lead to him eventually leaving the school in 2005. He is also said to be a very bad interviewee and was passed over for the head coaching position at Stanford because he rubbed the AD the wrong way.

As a head coach, there comes other commitments outside of the football field. Chow may not be up for socializing with boosters and athletic department personnel. He may not be interested in sticking with a college head coaching job and jump back to the NFL where he can focus entirely on just the on-field coaching.

The other downside is that Chow is getting up there in years. He is definitely set in his ways and he didn't spend much, if any time, on the recruiting trail while at USC. As the head coach you have to be involved in recruiting whether you like it or not.

Verdict

Chow is a bit of an enigma for me. You got to love the offensive coordinator background and his cerebral approach to the game. If we could just harness that mind for good rather than evil, it would be awesome. Some of the personality issues could really be a problem. You would hate to have a dysfunctional staff trying to lead this team where Norm is pissing off all of his assistants and the administration.

Maybe I'm making to much of it but obviously no other school as thought it worthwhile to offer Chow a head coaching job. There has got to be something wrong with him. I'm not sure if UCLA wants to roll the dice and be the first to give him a shot. If Guerrero does take Norm and it works out, he'll be a genius. If it doesn't work out... well he might think about preparing his own resume as well.

And there are other issues with rolling the dice on Norm Chow (and DeWayne Walker). Let's just say he is not going to excite a lot of people in the UCLA community:

As for some of the other names...Chow....meh. I would be happier about this than many other choices, but there's a reason he hasn't gotten a shot and is on the down-side of 60 - he's not particularly charismatic. His staff would need to be spectacular, and he'd need to pull in someone who could recruit. I'd be happy then - he's universally regarded as an offensive genius, but then again, so is Charlie Weis, and he hasn't exactly made the jump to head-coach appear to be all sunshine and rainbows, if you know what I mean.

That's really it. I get the fact that the comparison to Weis is not totally valid because Weis IIRC didn't have major college experience on his resume. But the argument remains, what happens if Chow screws up? Do we have the time for another grand "experiment" given our history in last 10+ years?

Also, I don't buy the comparisons between Chow and Stoops and Chow and Richt. Those guys were at different stages of their careers when they were hired by their respective institutions as head coach. They didn't have the baggage of a 30 year career in which they were finding themselves in positions of screwing up one opportunity after another.

Let me also get to the absurd notion of Chow coming in here and Walker working under him as DC. I have also heard that the Chow idea has been floated to Walker to see if he would be OK under working for him as "head coach"?

Are you kidding me? UCLA is at a critical juncture in its football history as its AD is in position to make a hire that has the potential to reverse the malaise and underachievements of a couple of decades, and here we are hearing stories about UCLA looking to hire candidates who a defensive coordinator from a fired regime (with no head coaching experience) would find acceptable?

Do these guys have any idea what happened at Louisville this past season? You guys remember the Louisville Cardinals right, who lost their superstar coach Bobby Petrino to the Atlanta Falcons. So they bring in Steve Kagthorpe, who was apparently "forced" (per an email from a pretty good source we have) to retain some of Petrino's previous assistants, and that scenario blew up in his face. How do we know we will have the perfect "chemistry" between Chow and Walker (despite the inevitable spin we will hear out of the traditional media) that will not create a Louisville-like implosion at UCLA?

So how can we be assured that if Chow comes in and "enthusiastically" retains Walker on his staff that Chow will be safe when he turns his back to a guy who seems to be scheming for the top spot ever since he got here?

Can you imagine the gossip and stories next year if the offense functions well but the defense still has no answer to the spread, or if the defense stays above average but the offense doesn't respond to Chow?

We will be back to right where we started when we had rolled the dice with other assistant coaches in our two major sports during last three decades. Yeah, I get that Chow's resume is heavier and more burnished than the ones of Hazzard, Farmer, Lavin, Toledo, and Dorrell. But context matters. We have been through enough in the last 30 years.

We deserve better than the UCLA administration even thinking (and from what we hear they are considering "Chow/Walker" scenario seriously) about rolling the dice with yet another "experiment" for another 5-7 years. It seems like an unacceptable proposition to BN.

GO BRUINS.

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Hmm...

did you guys hear that someone spotted KD in Durham, NC? A visit to the Dukies? Good luck Blue Devils, stick to basketball, The Ben Howland/KD combo was atrocious, I'm not sure if Coach K/KD combo is much better.

100andcounting

by dkao1 on Dec 10, 2007 4:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Dorrell in Durham

This was the best piece of news that I heard all day long. Why you ask? UCLA for my BA, and Carolina my MBA. I spent five long years watching Dorrell destroy my alma mater. Now, I get the rare opportunity to return the favor. For as long as he would remain at Duke, I get to watch Butch Davis at UNC punish him- I couldn't be happier.

by DallasBruin on Dec 10, 2007 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hiring Chow as head coach...

...would be all the evidence I need to conclude that UCLA does not care about fielding a championship-caliber football team.

On the other hand, if the guy wants to stick it to USC, hire Mendenhall as head man and encourage him to put Chow at OC.

The point is that some people are great coordinators and nothing more. There's nothing wrong with being a great coordinator. Chow seems like that guy. He just seems more like Norv Turner, Richie Petitbone, Bruce Coslet, Paul Hackett, Rich Kotite, and Buddy Ryan. He does not seem like Richt or Stoops, in large part because he's 20+ years older than they were when they got the head job at Georgia and OU, respectively, but there are other, pretty obvious factors as well, such as lower energy level, less outgoing etc.

by BruinsRule on Dec 10, 2007 5:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd like that

Mendenhall as HC, Chow as OC. That'd be fantastic.

by Raisin on Dec 10, 2007 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Where is the Chow/DW rumor coming from?

Is there any basis for the Chow/DW rumor?

It seems silly to me that this is even being considered. If what they say about Chow's "take it or leave it" attitude is true, then he seems like a guy who wouldn't want to be handcuffed with the prior regime's guys. In all his years of coaching, Chow probably has developed enough contacts to be able to put together his own, talented staff around him.

I think Walker is a good DC, but he's replaceable.

Also, you're rolling the dice on pretty much any candidate out there. None of these guys we're thinking of are slam dunks.

Als, you should probably not have excluded the "Positives" section from the Bruin Roar link. Excerpt:

"Norm Chow has an incredibly impressive track record as an offensive coordinator. His history of developing successful NFL quarterbacks would likely draw top high school prospects from across the country to Westwood. He has also overseen some of the most potent offenses in the history of college football and it is easy to see UCLA becoming a power house under Chow's oversight. That is very important in the PAC-10 where offensive prowess is paramount.

Emphasis mine.

"We play some ball on the West Coast."

by haoledave on Dec 10, 2007 5:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Okay Good

So let's bring him on as our OC.

by Tydides on Dec 10, 2007 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't want to be an OC anymore.

Why would he take (essentially) a demotion to return as an OC in the college ranks?

You know, it's possible that Chow's not been getting these jobs because, you know, he's Asian. If you believe that racism plays a part in the lack of minority hiring in the college ranks (not necessarily on behalf of the ADs themselves, but from boosters who aren't excited about hiring, say, a black coach), then obviously racial prejudices would also pertain to an Asian candidate as well.

There are plenty of people out there who are upset at how "Asians" have ruined UCLA. Stereotypes about Asians are out there. Or maybe people just think an Asian couldn't connect with black and/or inner-city recruits. I don't know.

Think about Ralph Freidgen -- the guy never got a shot at being a head coach until his alma mater called. Why? The common explanation was that he was too fat. Charlie Weis had the same knock on him. If people can be as so narrow-minded as to by pass a worthy candidate because he's fat, what would they think of someone who's Asian?

I'm curious about how Chow has supposedly "bombed" these interviews. He never seems to bomb them when it comes to being hired as an OC. What happens when he interviews for a head coaching job?

(Looking at resume)
AD: So, you've been title winning assistant coach for over thirty years. Your offenses have always been productive and innovative. Why do you think you can be as a head coach?

Chow: Well, I'm... oh wait, it's 2:00. It's time for my daily meal of eating a live puppy and raping a school boy. Can you give me 10 minutes?

"We play some ball on the West Coast."

by haoledave on Dec 10, 2007 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know that

Too bad that's all he's qualified to be here at UCLA, so take it or leave it.

It's also possible that he's not getting these jobs because, you know, he's not head coaching material. Saying that there's racism out there doesn't advance his cause any, and trying to imply that an institution that just hired a minority candidate should be "guilted" into hiring another is disgusting.

Not everyone is head coaching material, and his past 30 years is an indication of this. Surely there were head coaching jobs within that timespan with a lower profile that he could have pursued. There's no shame in being a great coordinator.

I'm not seeing the need to interject race into this again. It got ugly once with the idiot Streeter, and if we've learned nothing else from that, we should be sticking to his lack of head coaching credentials, not his ethnicity. As an aside, if there's anyone who has a personal stake in watching Chow succeed at a place like UCLA, it would be me, but I refuse to project my personal agenda ahead of the better interests of UCLA and its fanbase.

I also don't see the need to list your hyperbolic, fanciful, and rather disturbing narrative here.

by Tydides on Dec 10, 2007 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Clarification

To clarify, I'm not suggesting that anyone here at BN is a racist and doesn't want Chow hired because of his ethnicity. I'm suggesting that, possibly, Chow has had problems getting HC jobs at other schools because of it.

Do I have anything factual to back that up with? No, nobody from the Kentucky or Stanford administration called me up and said they were told not to hire an Asian.

I've dwelled on Chow's ethnicity getting in the way of him being hired in the past. What brought it up today were the comments on EDSBS regarding the Chow rumor. They fell into one of two categories:

Clearly, there are people out there who don't take Chow as a head coach seriously because of his race.

Why did I bring it up? Well, everyone here is going on the premise that Chow interviews terribly. Well, what proof does anyone have of that? It's a possibility, sure, that when it comes to a head coaching interview, he tenses up and spouts a bunch of gibberish and reads from The Book of Mormon.

But it's also possible that people aren't comfortable with his race and him being the face of a major college football team.

"We play some ball on the West Coast."

by haoledave on Dec 10, 2007 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Half the commenters

on EDSBS are TrOJies or who have total f*cked up view of UCLA. And we are supposed to take them seriously. You sound more and more clueless in every post.

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing

Don't inject race into discussion again. If you feel compelled to go visit some moron's site like Kurt Streeter's blog. But keep that kind of trash out of BN. Thank you.

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree with you

I'm tired of being lectured on affirmative action and race by people who don't know us, don't know where we stand and what we've done for equal rights and justice, and haven't read our extensive posts on these topics.

There is a wealth of knowledge on BN, and a search engine. Before, coming here and posting this stuff, you might want to read what's been written here so as to get a sense of who we are.

And, while I'm on the soap box, I'm tired of hearing the unproven crap about how good a DC DW is and how all of our defensive failures were the O's fault.

Perhaps, we can have a canned response to this crap, push on key, and have it come up.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 10, 2007 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No Apologies

OK, I'm going to get banned after this. And that's too bad, because as a UCLA graduate (Class of 97'), and proud, loving fan of UCLA football, I want the very best for this program and would like to continue giving my honest advice about the state of the program.

Race and racial politics are very, very tricky and touchy. That's one thing I learned early on during my years in Westwood.

My point was that, maybe, Chow hasn't gotten an opportunity to be a head coach before (at Stanford, Kentucky, etc.) because of his ethnicity, and if that contributed to his inability to land a head coaching job before, then that shouldn't be held against him. That was, in no way, a slam or a slur against either UCLA or BN, and I don't believe that anything I wrote could be interpreted in such a manner.

It was my hope that I could mention this and that BN could read this, think about it, and agree or disagree. Or just ignore it. I wasn't trying to be provocative, I was just getting something out there I've had on my mind (and my chest) for a while. I am not an Asian-American, and have no particular agenda to advance, besides the betterment of UCLA and its football program.

To be labeled as "clueless" when people are launching harsh condemnations and screeds of the purely conjective, if not entirely imagined, Chow/Walker rumors is really disappointing. (If there is some basis to this rumor, I haven't seen it.)

Nestor, I've read EDSBS for a while now. My impression is that 90% of their readers/commenters don't follow the Pac-10 at all. It is, if anything, an SEC-centric blog. Saying that half their readers are Trojan fans is absurd, as is the suggestion that USC fans are surreptitiously pumping up Chow's candidacy in the hopes of leaving the UCLA program in an even worst state than it is. That reeks of paranoia.

My point was that, as a more nationally oriented blog compared to BN, there is perception among (ignorant) college football fans that Chow is a laughable candidate because of his ethnicity. Granted, one EDSBS post is not a very good polling sample. But it does tell me something.

Getting back to the HC search, I don't believe (unlike, apparently, much of BN) that our next HC needs prior head coaching experience. I've mentioned men before like Stoops, Alvarez, etc. achieved greatness at their programs without any prior HC experience. Hell, Larry Coker won a national title and should have won a second in his first two seasons without a lick of HC experience. Yes, the Coker era at UM flamed out pretty quickly, but I'd settle for a national title or two in the short run. (I'm too young to remember the glory days of the Red Sanders or Dick Vermeil regimes.)

Unfortunately, it seems that too much of BN has been shell-shocked by the Dorrell era to consider anything else but someone with HC experience. To me, that is, unfortunately, an unnecessarily shallow pool to draw from.

Sure, it's possible that Jim Mora, Jr., Brian Kelly or Bobby Hauck could lead us to the promised land. I'm personally psyched on Bronco Mendenhall, but he doesn't seem to keen on leaving Provo. Outside of that, I think Chow is our best bet. He wouldn't come here as an OC. But I think he'd be stellar as a HC.

And that's all I have to say.

Except: GO BRUINS.

"We play some ball on the West Coast."

by haoledave on Dec 10, 2007 8:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dave, I'll keep this short

The basis for just about all your arguments is purely hypothetical. In this case, "The reason Chow wasn't hired by other schools was because of his ethnicity, maybe." No one can really argue with a maybe. But you can't argue from a maybe. That's the foundation for your argument and all it takes to negate your argument is to proceed from an opposing assumption.

How's this: "The reason Chow wasn't hired by other schools was because he was perceived as a great OC, but was not perceived as having the qualities that would make him a good head coach, maybe." You can't argue against that point because the major premise is assumed to be true.

That leaves facts. Many posit that lots of guys without head coaching experience have been successful. We have just finished that sort of experiment and it was five years of ..., well, you know what it was. There are plenty of people who are willing to gamble on someone without a track record, and more power to them. I am not. I suspect the majority of the contributors to the BN are not. I hope that Dan Guerrero is also unwilling to let another coach train on the job.

by Fox 71 on Dec 10, 2007 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't appreciate

race being injected into the discussion when there was simply no reason to go in that direction. Hacks like Streeter know that the way to distract people from talking about the real issues is to throw race into the mix, and everyone will gravitate toward it. Now we're seeing people who don't want to talk about Chow's fundamental lack of experience as a head coach do the same. If there was evidence, or even something hinting at evidence that race has been involved in Chow not getting a head coaching shot, then race is a valid discussion topic. However, I find it hard to believe that in 30+ years, he couldn't get even one lower profile school to hire him. Just because he's 60 doesn't mean he has paid his dues in the head coaching circles.

by Tydides on Dec 10, 2007 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A (possible) reprieve

Fair enough. There is no evidence pointing to Chow not getting a HC gig because of his ethnicity. But what evidence is there that his failure to land a HC gig has anything to do with poor interviewing skills?

I don't know, for a fact, why Chow hasn't gotten a prior hire at a school. Neither do you or anyone else, save a few ADs. We assume that he disintegrates when he's interviewed for HC jobs, but none of us have evidence as to why.

I believe that if Chow was hired as HC, our offense would be amazingly improved. No more 6 points against Utah, or 7 against USC. I understand that a HC has far more responsibilities than just the offense. But I believe that his talent and his knowledge would be a marked improvement over KD or Toledo or Donahue.

Think about it: Toledo had a 20-game winning streak, and he was a mediocre coach. When you hire a non-HC candidate for the HC position, you make a big gamble. I think that Chow would pay off in spades. His offenses would be talented and potent, and I believe that his wisdom would positively impact our defense.

I'm sorry if my race-related posts have upset people, but I'm imparting my UCLA-educated experiences here.

Oh, and I'm drunk.

For Jeebus' Sake: GO BRUINS.

"We play some ball on the West Coast."

by haoledave on Dec 10, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Too Many If's

Which is really the problem with any candidate with no head coaching experience. All this talk about how the offense will "probably" be improved is based on the assumption that we will have the players to execute such strategies. With a man like Chow who is on record as saying he detests recruiting, we cannot be sure that we will get the kinds of players needed to execute. We don't know if he can handle all the other details that come with being a head coach. Will he tell the donors and alumni to leave him alone so he can watch tape?

None of the concerns regarding his lack of head coaching experience have been answered. You can repeat how the offense will "probably" be better till you're blue in the face, it doesn't matter because that's not the issue. This is why we need a coach with experience, because we cannot answer the most important questions we have regarding coaching candidates without taking yet another chance on an unproven candidate. No matter what, the fact remains that Chow has done one thing well: take the talent at his disposal and develop dynamic offenses around them. Unfortunately, being a successful head coach requires far more than that. UCLA must no longer be a training ground. It is a destination. No Chow/Walker (for head coach anyway).

by Tydides on Dec 10, 2007 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Chow's ethnicity not an issue

So why try to make it one? UCLA Head Football Coaching job is not the place to try to make up for all the ills of society. We want the best coach that will make us Pac-10 contenders, BCS bowl candidates, etc. Nobody here gives a shit what color, race, religion, sexual preference, etc. that person is. We don't need another 5 years of somebody trying to learn on the job how to be a head coach. Chow is obviously a good OC, and I'd be ecstatic if he was the UCLA OC. Chow has 0 experience as HC, and if he wants to be a HC should apprentice someplace besides UCLA.

by Tommy Bruin on Dec 10, 2007 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

respectable dissent

nothing intrinsicaly wrong with what your take, dave. the long years of battling the dorrell idiocracy have indeed jaded a great many of us into a state of total non-objectivity.... a point I nearly got N to concede some months ago (see, "backstabber" campaign).

AFAIK, you don't get banned for advancing counterpoint on BN: Slammed maybe, but not banned.

the truth about Chow lies out there somewhere -- probably between T/N's "absolute no" basis and the vein you explored above.

one factoid re: Chow and the ASU non-hire was Carroll, who "reached down" (a la Darth Cheney) to his former AAD Lisa Love last December and called in a stop order... further escalating the Chow/Trojan beef.

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Dec 11, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Chow/ Walker

Not only is it absurd that Walker may have some input into the new HC, it is also absurd that he should be forced on any head coach as DC. Arizona State let Dennis Erickson choose his own DC, and he chose Craig Bray, who had coached with him at WSU and Oregon St. 2007 was Bray's 33rd (!) year coaching.
Bray's defense went from -0- all conference selections in 2006 to 3 in 2007. Walker meanwhile had 10 returning starters he had worked with in 2006. The same 2 who were all conference in 2006 (Davis and Horton) were all conference again in 2007- none of the other 8 starters under Walker's tutelage apparently improved enough and Davis remained stuck in 2nd team all conference.
If a mark of a good coach is that his player's improve, it is not clear how the above would support forcing any HC to keep Walker.
So not only are there issues with Chow, there are issues with Walker. Put them together and what do you have- ISSUES

by islandbruin on Dec 10, 2007 5:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

What is UCLA willing to pay for a top coach?

In this day in age, what they paid Dorrell is not going to cut it with proven coaches. Especially if you want someone to relocate to LA where the cost of living is more. The money has to be enough to ofset some of the gripes that come with living here.
Like the saying goes, "You get what you pay for". So is UCLA willing to pay to get what is necessary to get to the top?

by RScal on Dec 10, 2007 5:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chow/Walker

Honestly, it would be really, really difficult for me to come up with a scenario chock full of even more concentrated lameness. Okay, other than just hiring DW straight up, that is.

Really now, let's see how much institutional dysfunction we can build into the process, shall we? A health dose of older many-times-passed-over coach who can't play well in the sand box. A dash of ambitious, self promoting assistant with his eyes firmly focused on his boss-to-be's job (and a sense of entitlement as the next guy waiting in the wings). A terribly depressing reliance on old notions of protecting recruiting classes and hiring assistants from within (while magically attributing them with near fantastic powers). A seat at the decision making table for the not so loyal assistant of the former HC.

Seriously, is this a joke? I get that this is speculation, and hope that DG isn't seriously considering this. But, I'm seeing enough to worry me.

Geez, are people so simple minded that they think it's just about adding one part offensive guru to one part above average journeyman DC, and, POW, head coaching happiness?

I guess we'll see what happens, but I really hope not this.

by Menelaus on Dec 10, 2007 5:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

This doesn't make sense

so I have a hard time believing that this is the route DG is going. 1st off - DG to my knowledge has said nothing to anyone so who knows what is possibly really going on. 2nd, the search firm was just decided on Friday and (also to my knowledge so correct me if I am wrong) there have been no interviews save for maybe today assuming Chow. 3rd, DG said that this would be a long proccess so why in hell would he offer the 1st person he interviewed (IF he was interviewed) when A) he has no HC experience that he mentioned they would be looking for in his Fire KD press conference and B)its not like its a race to see who gets Chow first. Nothing I have read has any other college/pro team looking at Norm. In Miles case it was a race to see if LSU could get an extension or if UM could hire him away - not so with Chow. This makes no sense and I have to believe that DG is a sensible guy.

by gorams77 on Dec 10, 2007 5:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Man good points

It just doesn't add up. Obviously DG didn't have Chow in mind as he was firing KD. He stated that it would be a long process. Reasonably indicating that he is looking at coaches with current college commitments. There isn't as great a need for discretion for an NFL asst.

I also don't buy that a 60+ year old man who is documented as being anything but charasmatic was able to charm the socks off of our very intelligent AD.

What I am more likley to buy is that sports writers don't have any insight to what DG is really thinking and manuevering but they aren't allowing that to stop them from putting something in print.

Hell, I've got a tone of unnammed sources that say Bill Belichick is taking the job and Mike Leach is the OC and Ben Howland is his DC. My sources are as good as any of the reporters that I've read this week.

"Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny" - Boss

by TCbruin32 on Dec 10, 2007 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Your sources

They don't happen to be three wealthy and influential alumni do they? Because those guys don't know jack.

by Tydides on Dec 10, 2007 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you are right

But right now I am concerned based on what I have been reading and hearing.

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

I'm not so concerned at all, but that's because I don't believe what I'm hearing and reading.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 10, 2007 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No offense

But are not old enough and you haven't gone through multiple UCLA football coaching searches.

May be DG will prove to us that he is "different." But the way this has been unfolding lot of us are having the sense of "we have seen this movie before."

Until I know for sure Chow will not be the next HC, I am not going to rest easy.

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

based on the Dorrell search, this one is already going much different. For one, we have much better names coming from these rumors. Petersen, Neuheisel, Leach, Jones are all better names than Dorrell, Riley and Brooks. The concerns regarding the search are based on reports coming from EDSBS and Dohn. Seriously now.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 10, 2007 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

My info. on Chow is independent of EDSBS and Dohn. I have heard from reliable sources DG is seriously considering Chow as one of his first tier candidates (and trying to hold on to Walker). That's coming from my own sources not Dohn or EDSBS. I don't depend on EDSBS for my UCLA info.

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well we must have conflicting sources

because my source is telling me Chow is one the top tier of assistant coaches on DG's list. From what I know, DG is looking for head coaching experience and has a list of only guys with HC experience and he won't dip in to the assistants unless the HC's all fall through.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 10, 2007 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is all so Watergate

Why the need for secrecy? I'm sure you both have good PERSONAL reasons to believe your sources but how can the rest of us take any of it seriously if you can't actually name your sources. Is it a matter of National Security?

If you are unable or unwilling to tell us exactly were the info comes from than I choose to believe my own logic. Chow does not top the current list IMO.

"Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny" - Boss

by TCbruin32 on Dec 10, 2007 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

it seems pretty obvious Chow/Walker is in the "top tier", I think we can all let that sink in and accept that. That's fine. As long as that top tier also includes Peterson, Leach, Mariucci, Mora Jr., Fassel and maybe Jones, then I can live with that.

I am still cautiously optimistic that everything will turn out okay, and I have been through it all as well. I just have a feeling everything will be okay.

I will trust DG until he gives me a reason not to.

"This is not a place for just any coach" Dan Guerrero

by godblesstyus95 on Dec 10, 2007 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mendenhall

If he's on DG's radar, we wouldn't really approach him until after the bowl game, right? I know its a lame bowl but has anyone heard of a team courting the opponent's HC prior to playing them in a bowl game? That strikes me as bizarre.

by SinnerBoy 99 on Dec 10, 2007 6:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chow/Walker/DG Threesome

it's pretty clear that there is all kinds of bad information floating around out there. I understand, we're all anxious. After 12 plus years of frustration it's understandable.

Actually there is no Bruin who wants this over more than me. It's year end, the busiest time of the year for me and I am spending HOURS everyday on BN, on the internet seeking the smallest scrap of information on the coaching search. DG please, I need to get some work done...

I will say this about the Norm Chow - DyNoMite scenerio. Anybody been watching the Titans lately? Boring bad football. Not all the OC's fault but honestly, is Chow even AWAKE upstairs in the booth? And with DeWayne, this guy needs to go to the back of the line and work his way to the front. Considering him to be HC of a major division I program is a joke.

That said, if this happens, I will be spending hours on DumpDG.com so hey, advertisers out there, you definitely want to get your ads on DumpDG.com 'cause it's gonna be HUGE !

by CalPolyBruin on Dec 10, 2007 6:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chow

Has he ever spent any time outside press box on gamedays during his 30 year of "experience"? Anyone has the answer?

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

His early years at BYU he used to work from the sidelines. I don't know the exact year he moved up to the booth.

by makenji on Dec 10, 2007 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So

He has been pretty much working from inside his press box for last 20 years?

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

sounds right.

at least 15.

Damn. I think you and Fox have finally convinved for me to root for Chow to get a job somewhere else...

by makenji on Dec 10, 2007 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In other words

He has no experience on how to lead today's young men from the sidelines. I get it that he did wonders for some talented QBs, but he has 0 experience when it comes to "leading" a team from the locker room to the field.

Once again no thanks. And if DG goes this route his credibility will be severely damaged (if not shot forever) on BN.

by Nestor on Dec 10, 2007 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel that my life's work has not been in vain.

by Fox 71 on Dec 10, 2007 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Chow will not be the next HC

I like Chow better than any of the other names currently out there in rumors and I think that he would succeed, but at the end of the day his age, salary and no HC experience will keep him for getting the job. He makes about $1.2m right now as OC for the Titans (Yes its bad boring football, but they will extend his contract. Look at the roster. I am impressed everytime they score a touchdown) I am certain he would want to make something in the same neighborhood as HC. He would be an expensive roll of the dice. No way DG is willing to take an expensive gamble on someone who's ability to succeed as HC is unknown.

by makenji on Dec 10, 2007 6:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Just one person's opinion

It is just my opinion, but based upon DG's words at the news conference and experience with hiring someone with NO head coaching experience, I would be SHOCKED if Chow or Walker were anything but "politically" correct interviews. This has nothing to do with their ethnicity and everything to do with their lack of head coaching experience. My best guess is still Mariucci. I still believe he would have replaced Dorrell last year if not for the miracle defeat of USC....

by Gary72 on Dec 10, 2007 7:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think Mooch is a few down on the list.

We may end up with him, but if he were the number 1 choice he would already by hired.

I still think that DG is eyeing a college coach(s) and at the very least is going to court said coach(s) before offering to Mooch. Or Chow (shudder).

"Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny" - Boss

by TCbruin32 on Dec 10, 2007 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

According to Spokane papers, DW will

not be announced as the new Cougar head coach. Instead, it will be the head coach of EWU (whose record is similar to Dorrell's)...Any thoughts on where that leaves DW...

by Gary72 on Dec 10, 2007 7:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

A Lot Less Credible

After he and Dohn trumpeted WSU's interest in Dw, trying to create a stampede to keep him, he doesn't even get an interview.

Ooops. Played the wrong card -- the you better grab me before I'm off the market card -- and then wasn't even interviewed.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 10, 2007 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hurry

This could be your last chance to get the deal of a lifetime - one middle of the pack DC to be your next Head Coach. People are lining up to get this fantastic deal, you'd better act fast.

When I was a student at UCLA, I got a job in a boiler-room phone sales place with a canned sales pitch pretty much like this - it was all a rip off of course. Only stayed there about a week.

by Tommy Bruin on Dec 10, 2007 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ABW - Anyone But Walker

ABW!

editor, DumpDorrell.com ... formerly posted as DumpDorrell

by BruinCore on Dec 10, 2007 7:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Playing the Age Card

I do not want Norm Chow.

But, I do disagree that being 60 is a disability. Maybe, that's because I'm 63, can still feed myself and tie my shoes -- when I can find them.

If Mike Leach were 60, I would still want him.

We are willing to accept coaches who likely will move on after a few years. So, if we are not looking for a candidate for life, why impose an age test?

When I was young, I lived the "Don't trust anyone over 30" mantra. To a certain extent it was based upon fact. The idea was that people over 30 had already developed vested interests and were less likely to accept the social change we envisioned.

However, unless you show me that an older candidate has vested interests and won't be flexible, I'm not sure age matters.

And, I won't buy that 60 year olds can't reach out to or relate to young players. That's an issue for an individual candidate.

Finally, remember that a HC is like a CEO -- and a good HC has a great staff. Much of what a HC does is create a situation where his subordinates can shine.

To me, the issue is who should that CEO be, not how old he should be.

There are many reasons to not want Chow but, on my list, age isn't really a factor.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 11, 2007 5:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Its a good point 66

FWIW I will be all right with Mike Price even though he is the same age group. The distinction here is Price has the track record of "leading" young men from locker room to the field. Yes, he made a serious mistake when he became a head coach at Alabama.

Then again we have a President who got busted for snorting cocaine and drunk driving. So I think we should be ok with that. If we were to go to tier 2 option it should be someone like Mike Price, a coach with experience, not an unproven commodity like Chow.

by Nestor on Dec 11, 2007 5:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

All the talk about Chow

makes me think he would be a great OC, but some of the posts have noted that he is making huge bucks at Tennessee and that we would be hard pressed to get him.

I don't think he (or anyone else) is a good enough OC to pay him HC money to be an OC.

by Fox 71 on Dec 11, 2007 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs