A Dangerous Proposition
Bumped. I have been hearing and reading a number of comments that are bringing up lot of the same issues we have discussed ad nauseum here on BN. I have been reading nonsense about how UCLA will not pay competitive $$ for a new coach, the not being able to compete against OMG Pom Pom is so awesome excuse, and the budget excuse. And, I have hearing total bullshit about how UCLA head coaching opportunity is not an attractive one. These are typically arguments that morons like Trev Albert advance every time to time. Albert tried this tack during summer time in this post and we ripped it apart. Instead of cutting and pasting the same arguments, I thought it'd be easy to bump this post. We heard lot of the same nonsense during Lavin fiasco when one blowhard after another advanced the argument that UCLA basketball will never be competitive again because of facilities, money issue, too expensive for coaches to live in blah blah blah. After four years Howland has obviously shut up those morons. We have no doubt there are plenty of top notch coaches around the country, who would be attracted to the UCLA gig. What is needed is a competent search process that is not farmed out to incompetent boobs such as Bob Field. Anyways, here is our take down of Trev Alberts making some of the tired, asinine arguments. We can use them everytime you hear some tool blathering them on TV or posting on message boards. GO BRUINS. -N
So last week I brought your attention to CSTV.com's football "analyst" Trev Albert's proclamation of Karl Dorrell doing an "incredible job" as the head coach of UCLA football program. I have some amusing followup. Apparently few Bruin fans wrote in pointing out the real Dorrell record, one of them took Alberts to woodshed:
Moreover, money has never been an issue at UCLA. It's matter of having the "will" to spend it. Under DG's leadership the culture at Morgan Center has definitely evolved a little from the penny pinching Dalis era. Otherwise, UCLA wouldn't have stepped to hire a big time basketball coach like Ben Howland and instead would have settled for coaches like Patt Douglas (of UCI). So Albert's assertion that the UCLA is not willing to pay a head coach is not based on reality. And if you shoot down that part of his argument, the whole excuse of not having commitment to facilities standing in the way of hiring a good head coach doesn't even pass the smell test. Albert wasn't done. He went on to make more disjointed argument in favor of Dorrell:
And more
As for Dorrell not inheriting "championship excuse" that is not exactly an orginal argument either. We shredded the talent excuse long time ago.
Alberts finally ends with yet another absurd arugment:
It is not that difficult for a UCLA athletic director to come up with a list of names who have more experience and credibility than what Karl Dorrell had (or has now) when he came into Westwood. There are plenty of coaches who would be interested in leading the gold mine, which is the UCLA football program. We have already talked about numerous coaches with solid credentials who may be able to put together good careers at UCLA. The simple point here is there are plenty of coaches in America, who unlike KD have shown the ability to lead and to put together a competent football program that will compete for titles in their respective conferences.
I think to me what is really a "dangerous proposition" is that we live in a sports world we have so many "pundits" such as Trev Alberts posing as "analysts" of the game, proffering opinions on a game that is not grounded on any kind of reality. These guys are always out there hacking away with opinions favorable to incumbent regimes so that they can maintain their precious access, and in return they end up doing a total disservice not to just the fans of that specific team, but the entire game by providing a narrative that is not based on any kind of facts. It is pathetic but also dangerous because it often comes across as outside pressure on institutions to retain mediocre head coaches like Karl Dorrell, who would be replaced by now if they worked in a real life job that judged him based on tangible accomplishments, instead of judging by his "demeanor" and how he "interacts" with other people at his job.
GO BRUINS.
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41 comments
Comments
Trev has a problem
Trev is obviously not brilliant at what he does. He is mediocre on a good day. Hence, he has an affinity for Coach Dorrell. I wonder if he would like his surgeon or his stockbroker or his pilot to be correct a whopping 58% of the time.
by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 5:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Trev is a moron and a liar
This guy just made himself look worse ... he never explains what is in fact "incredible" about the job Dorrell has done. And he expects us to accept mediocrity. What a moron ... and a liar. Nestor pretty much covers the rest.
by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 8:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
let me be more specific
by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what an idiot
Albert is a tool. He should work for Tony Snow.
by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Albert's skewed perspective...
So, Trev's observation that UCLA is successful while just treading water is based on the fact that schools like $UC are able to bring in more than 85 scholarships (hiding them under some nearby rock?), keep them on retainer and overlook their borderline academic performances until they have exhausted their eligibility. Just like 'Bama and all the rest of the mills.
I say, keep Dorrell for another year. Once he's gone 11-1, won the Rose Bowl, and signed an entire class of 5-star blue chippers, then he can stay another year...or move on and make room for another coach. Say, is Tommy Prothro still alive?
by SecondGenBruin on Apr 30, 2007 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The best thing about...
My gf and I were watching the end of the Golden State/Mavs game last night, and Baron Davis was talking to Pam Oliver, and the first thing she said was "Whoa, he's articulate."
Indeed. Too bad the same thing can't be said about our football coach.
by CAJason80 on Apr 30, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Admission Standards = Red Herring
Our standards are what they are and our other coaches can both recruit and win with them.
The argument that we cannot be competitive with our admission standards is an argument that we should drop down to Division II.
There's no historic support for the argument. And, there's no need to drop down to a lower level of competition.
Instead of lowering the standards for our student athletes, how about raising the standard for our football coach?
by Class of 66 on Apr 30, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Football coach standards being raised...
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. And we didn't beat SC eight years in a row...
by Chandler on Sep 19, 2007 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KD and TP
Bill
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 9:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Bill remembers
Plus Coach Prothro told it like it really was, and didn't resort to hiding behind cliches. When we played Tennessee (at Tennessee) after beating justsc 20-16, we got literally robbed by the refs. (Things like putting the ball on the left hashmark (or the right - whichever one favored the Vols) so they could run their best wide play to the same side of the field every time. They gave them ridiculously favorable spots. It was very very obvious.) Coach Prothro didn't talk in cliches. He made it clear - He said the refs were so bad in Tennessee that it made him "ashamed to be a Southerner."
And he achieved success without a zillion blue-chip athletes. When we beat MSU in the Rose Bowl in '66, our monster stud defensive tackle, Big John Richardson, tipped the scales at a whopping 225. (Bob Apisa, MSU's fullback, weighed more.) And parked next door to Richardson in our defensive line was our other monster defensive tackle, Terry Donahue, all 196 pounds of him.
Coach Prothro's record with the players Coach Dorrell has had would be at least ten wins better. He was a brilliant coach. An innovator, and a motivator. He was the anti-Dorrell. Frankly, it's insulting to guys like Coach Prothro and those who followed him to use the same honorific with Mr. Dorrell. Hence, my mild protest. I will no longer use the same word that is used to describe the positions held by Prothro, Howland et al, to describe Mr. Dorrell. He does not deserve to have that term used with his name. He is Mr. Dorrell from now on for me.
Or more briefly, I agree with Bill that TP was a great coach.
by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TP and memories
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TP
The other fact is that he only cashed paychecks when the payroll department begged him to, as he would accumulate them in the coat for months and never think about doing anything with them, or in the glove compartment of his car....
Bill
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KD and BH
Bill
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Who supports KD? A tell-all list:
1. Previous teammates (I bet it's not even all of them)
2. Previous coach (up-the-middle Donahue)
3. U$C fans/coaches
4. Other Pac-10 fans/coaches
5. His family
6. Trev Albert
7. Any cock-eyed optimist who sees "progress" in this program (where's the data?)
8. People who like mediocrity
9. People who are afraid of being politically incorrect
10. Marjorie, the Morgan Center administrative assistant to whom he wished a happy birthday last Tuesday
I guess that's a lot of people, if he's still around...did I leave anyone out? I'm undecided on DG, though up to this point he is in that group...
by tasser10 on Apr 30, 2007 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I support KD this year
If he doesn't,it will be time for him to go. If the defense is a top 5 defense in the country, I would give the job to Walker.
by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No you don't
by tasser10 on Apr 30, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do support him
So, at this point in time I do support him, because he is the UCLA Coach, and he runs a clean program. And if he performs very well next year, and shows he has become a better coach, I would be very happy to have him back in 2008. If he doesn't show he has become a good coach, I would be very happy to see him go.
Now, to your question, do I think he has performed well? No. He has earned a D+ in my book so far on his performance, and that is only because he runs a clean program and graduates his players. He's not horrible, but he is below average.
by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conditional support
by tasser10 on Apr 30, 2007 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I give him an "F"...
by meow meow on Apr 30, 2007 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DG and KD
Bill
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Like Many "Reporters" Trev Looks Lazy
Our posts are rooted in fact and analysis.
As I've said often, this is the most "academic/intellectual" sports site I've found. That makes sense. We're Bruins. We don't leave our brains on the floor when our fingers touch the keyboards.
I've done a lot of things that end up in the press. At first I was amazed at how few reporters took the time to get it right. Then, I learned to manipulate the lazy press by drafting pleadings that looked like press releases. Voila! Stories that borrowed from, paraphrased or outright stole my themes and story lines.
Very few reporters go beneath the rhetoric to get to the facts.
Trev's work shows that he is a shallow lazy man.
And, when DumpDorrell gave him the facts, instead of incorporating them into a follow up piece, he veered off and dodged a confrontation -- probably because either he knew he could not win, or he just didn't want to do the work to challenge DD's presentation.
At least all he's fucking up is sports coverage. Think of the early coverage of the War in Iraq and the failure of the mainstream press to do it's own factual investigation, its use of the party line, and its surrender of its independence.
Lazy is Lazy -- be it on the front page or on some obscure blog. Unfortunately, it's the new standard for the mass media.
by Class of 66 on Apr 30, 2007 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I had two brief contacts with the press
So after the second time, I just said "no comment." It wasn't worth the fuss.
I agree that Trev is a long way from Woodward and Bernstein.
by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Karl Dorrell is only as good as his assistants
Its incredible when idiots like Trev are making excuses for Dorrell's performance such as the "assistants pay" excuse. That one I dont get at all. If Karl is only as good as his assistants then we certainly dont need Karl. Instead, lets use the money we are paying him to hire the best assistants and send Karl packing. We would get better coaching AND save money.
by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Most excellent head coaches are experts
Because KD needs a top notch O coordinator and D coordinator, it is more expensive.
by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's even more ridiculous
Dorrell is paid peanuts because he was hired under Dalis, and had no experience base to demand higher pay (or, frankly, a job).
Now we're stuck with mediocrity, and the argument that Trev throws out there is "You pay middling dollars? Who else are you going to get?"
I think it's fairly obvious at this point we wouldn't pay middling dollars for a good coach - we certainly wouldn't pay Saban-level coin, but Good Lord, how much does a competent coach ala Steve Kragthorpe cost? Certainly not more than we're willing to pay.
It's an entirely ciruclar argument, and it's annoying.
by CAJason80 on Apr 30, 2007 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
incidentally
by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Trev and DD
Re: Potential. I do believe that people can improve, given certain variables. KD, since he has hired so many assistants, may actually be improving in the quality of assistants and learning to pick out the winners. His recruiting looks to have improved as well. My issue with all of this is that, as the rest of the board experiences, we are not getting younger and by the time KD "gets it", we could all be 6 feet under.
Bill
by Mensgym on Apr 30, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Potential
We all have potential. The potential to be better people, good citizens, and all that. But sometimes we are judged on our record. Our total body of work in the past is likely a good predictor of how well we will achieve our goals in the future. I see no reason to believe that Mr. Dorrell's potential is such that we have reason to believe that next season will be any different from the last season.
The FSU game suggested that the thought of "potential" based on the justsc game was misplaced. So now we have spring practice to look at. The potential seems to be exactly the same as last year. No third down passes that get to the first down marker.
I think Mr. Dorrell is this century's Paul Pettit in terms of potential. He showed enough to get a nice job and a nice salary, but he couldn't perform. And why should we have thought otherwise? If the surprise announcement had been Fox 71 as the new head football coach, would anyone have expected more than a .580 winning percentage?
No more "potential."
by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You nailed it
This begs the question--why was he hired in the first place? I really, really don't want or intend to be mean-spirited here, and thus, lets get the usual caveats out of the way: he's a nice guy, a good citizen, honest, an alum, runs a clean program, etc. These are all excellent qualities and I don't mean to understate them. Heck, KD even went to my high school (but so did Reggie Bush. But so did Bill Walton).
The mistake was made when he was hired. Yes, KD had potential back then and he could have turned out great (and maybe he still will, some of you are thinking). The bottom line is that, generally speaking, you want to hire a proven winner. I know, I know, it's a safer bet to go with someone who has proven themselves. But so what? This isn't the charity business, is it, folks?
by Barnes2JJ on Apr 30, 2007 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So did Alex Smith
by SuperBruinMan on Apr 30, 2007 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Seriously, I feel like some people who are really good at the video game football could have called better plays last year.
by tasser10 on May 1, 2007 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Division I or Division II
But I believe that schools that DON'T field a team of student-athletes (i.e., those whose players don't enroll in legitimate academic programs, or who don't legitimately maintain an adequate GPA or other measurable academic performance) should not be allowed to compete at the Division I level. That would eliminate most SEC programs, specifically Florida, a 'university' whose academic standing is anemic alongside most schools in the PAC 10. Forcing a program to undergo outside scrutiny would certainly help to clean up the recruiting behavior at many of the football mills mentioned above. Is this going to happen? Never. Division I football is a huge cash cow that the NCAA will never really regulate as long as the TV and sponsor dollars are there.
And the question remains, even if these ideal changes were made, would KD be able to field a successful team from year to year? Would TP? Yes. With a smaller team, with less scholarships, and even less fan support. But along the way, we keep forgetting the disappointments of Billy Barnes, Pepper Rodgers and even Terry Donahue. BTW, just to offer a limp argument for KD: Coach Wooden arrived in 1947(?) and didn't bring in his first championship for seventeen years. But even through my rose-colored glasses, I don't see DG giving KD THAT much time...
Go Bruins
by SecondGenBruin on May 1, 2007 8:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you really comparing Coach Wooden
by Fox 71 on May 1, 2007 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I was being sarcastic --
There's no historic support for the argument."
I was trying to make clear that we have and should be able to compete in Division I -- even with our admission standards.
I tried to drive the point home with what I perceive the problem to be -- we have a coach who does not meet Division I standards.
"Instead of lowering the standards for our student athletes, how about raising the standard for our football coach?"
by Class of 66 on May 1, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
While Wooden didn't win...
by SuperBruinMan on May 1, 2007 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
95 Team
Blaming the admissions policy is just a scapegoat.
by artybruin on May 1, 2007 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lay off Alberts
by BruinsRule on Sep 20, 2007 12:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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