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A Dangerous Proposition

Bumped. I have been hearing and reading a number of comments that are bringing up lot of the same issues we have discussed ad nauseum here on BN. I have been reading nonsense about how UCLA will not pay competitive $$ for a new coach, the not being able to compete against OMG Pom Pom is so awesome excuse, and the budget excuse. And, I have hearing total bullshit about how UCLA head coaching opportunity is not an attractive one. These are typically arguments that morons like Trev Albert advance every time to time. Albert tried this tack during summer time in this post and we ripped it apart. Instead of cutting and pasting the same arguments, I thought it'd be easy to bump this post. We heard lot of the same nonsense during Lavin fiasco when one blowhard after another advanced the argument that UCLA basketball will never be competitive again because of facilities, money issue, too expensive for coaches to live in blah blah blah. After four years Howland has obviously shut up those morons. We have no doubt there are plenty of top notch coaches around the country, who would be attracted to the UCLA gig. What is needed is a competent search process that is not farmed out to incompetent boobs such as Bob Field. Anyways, here is our take down of Trev Alberts making some of the tired, asinine arguments. We can use them everytime you hear some tool blathering them on TV or posting on message boards. GO BRUINS. -N

So last week I brought your attention to CSTV.com's football "analyst" Trev Albert's proclamation of Karl Dorrell doing an "incredible job" as the head coach of UCLA football program. I have some amusing followup. Apparently few Bruin fans wrote in pointing out the real Dorrell record, one of them took Alberts to woodshed:

You should do a little more research before praising Karl Dorrell like you did in your recent notes on the Pac-10.  You said Dorrell was doing an "incredible job" as UCLA football coach. Quite the opposite is true; you are factually way off base.  What is 'incredible' about going 7-6 in his 4th season?  What is 'incredible' about peaking at 3rd place in the conference in 4 years, and he has only managed that 'incredible' feat just once?  You also said Dorrell was a "steadying influence" in Westwood. Not true. He lost nearly every recruit he had in his first class before they reached their last year of eligibility. He has lost all but one assistant coach during the 4 years he has been head coach, and in most coaching positions he is on his 3rd coach.  He is on his 4th offensive coordinator in 5 years!  What is 'steadying' about that?? - Anonymous
In response Albert wrote up a predictable bumbling, stumbling, stammering retort devoid of any facts and reality concerning the UCLA football program. Just for you I will break down Albert's "pundity" para. by para. He started with this:
I think there are certain realities of where they are right now. That fact that they're in USC's backyard is certainly part of it. I don't think it would really matter who the head coach is right now.
Uhmm ... right off the bat Albert exposes his total ignorance concerning the UCLA football program. Southern Cal has a damn good football program. But they have always been a powerhouse in the college football landscape. That hasn't stopped previous UCLA head coaches from throwing their hands up in surrender and giving up from putting together programs that have consistently contended for the Pac-10 titles, winning them, winning Rose Bowls, building a UCLA football tradition, establishing it as one of the premiere football programs in Westwood. In fact UCLA hired Dorrell specifically so that he could compete straight up against Southern Cal (which means beating Trojans at least half the time) and bring home Pac-10 titles. Those were his own expectations. The idea of using Southern Cal's dominance for Dorrell's underachieving is just absurd, and it only reasserts the fact that Dorrell has not be able to accomplish what he was hired to do in Westwood. And now this is his last year to get it done (winning a Pac-10 championship). Albert continued on to make more boilerplate excuses in defense of Dorrell:
I've always understood and have been told that because of the way UCLA is set up they historically have not been willing to pay coaches top money. You add that and USC's prominence together and then you have to fight the administration to pay top dollar for the assistants as well? If they're not willing to pay the head coach, they probably haven't made a commitment to the facilities either.
I wonder who Alberts have talked to over the years to form his basis of "understanding" wrt to UCLA football. Whoever he has been talking to certainly is not providing updated takes on UCLA football grounded on reality. Otherwise, Alberts would have noted that UCLA under DG's leadership have stepped up pretty big in terms of compensating its assistant coaches. The way UCLA stepped up during this past off-season to boost Walker's salary (fending off Weiss's advances from ND) and brought in Norvell from Nebraska indicates that these days UCLA under DG's leadership Is not going to shy away from paying big $$ for head coaches. It's not the first time we have to slap away the budget excuse

Moreover, money has never been an issue at UCLA. It's matter of having the "will" to spend it. Under DG's leadership the culture at Morgan Center has definitely evolved a little from the penny pinching Dalis era. Otherwise, UCLA wouldn't have stepped to hire a big time basketball coach like Ben Howland and instead would have settled for coaches like Patt Douglas (of UCI). So Albert's assertion that the UCLA is not willing to pay a head coach is not based on reality. And if you shoot down that part of his argument, the whole excuse of not having commitment to facilities standing in the way of hiring a good head coach doesn't even pass the smell test. Albert wasn't done. He went on to make more disjointed argument in favor of Dorrell:
So you're really fighting an uphill battle when all I've been trying to point out is that there are some bumps in the road. It's interesting to me that you point out that 7-6 was no good, yet you're upset about turnover.
Again we are not sure what the heck is Alberts trying to argue. Once again he is making an assertion without having any grasp of the totality of circumstances around Dorrell's program. He cannot grasp the fact right now Dorrell is in the middle of mediocre cycle where his constant scapegoating of assistant coaches is leading to an unstable situation around his program, where players are always having to get accustomed to new systems (which also raises the question about whether UCLA football program under Dorrell is actually grounded in some kind of basic foundation which reflects Dorrell's core ideas as the leader of this program), leading to mediocre seasons year after year.

And more bufoonery punditry from Alberts:
It's a dangerous proposition where we get into this turnover of coaches and head coaches.  We live in a world where there are just enough universities that have long and storied traditions of circulating coaches every three or four years for not winning championship. I don't know Karl Dorrell personally, but from watching him I like his demeanor, I like the way he interacts with the kids. UCLA is not exactly just coming off championship seasons when Dorrell was hired.
So yeah Dorrell is doing a great job because of "his demeanor," and the way he "interacts with the kids." In other words Alberts is making the famous Plashcke argument from couple of years ago when wrote a piece saying everything is going well in Westwood, because players feel welcome to come into Dorrell's office and share some M&Ms with him. I am sure Alberts has nothing to say about the frustrations felt by talented WRs such as Junior Taylor, who Dorrell and his offensive coaches completely misused this last year, by featuring a disorganized, chaotic, hockey style WR rotation, which ended up giving more time to walkons in key situations, while not using talents such as Taylor, Kethcum etc. Yes, Dorrell is good with his kids that he often forgets who is on his team (cough*Manny Whte*cough) on his sidelines.

As for Dorrell not inheriting "championship excuse" that is not exactly an orginal argument either. We shredded the talent excuse long time ago.

Alberts finally ends with yet another absurd arugment:
The point is we have 119 teams now and their fans expect their team to win the championship every year and if not it's "let's fire the coach." Well, who are you going to hire? Paying the salaries that you're apparently paying at UCLA, name me a list of coaches you'd rather have.
We have already rebutted the salary/budget excuse above. It is amusing to me that Alberts is looking for a "list," of coaches who could be a good fit at UCLA. Not sure how difficult that task is considering we have had no problem doing some basic research and coming up with list of names here on BN. Is Albers that incapable of doing his research or is he just content cutting and pasting standard talking points from some Dorrell supporter from Morgan Center bureaucrat?

It is not that difficult for a UCLA athletic director to come up with a list of names who have more experience and credibility than what Karl Dorrell had (or has now) when he came into Westwood. There are plenty of coaches who would be interested in leading the gold mine, which is the UCLA football program. We have already talked about numerous coaches with solid credentials who may be able to put together good careers at UCLA. The simple point here is there are plenty of coaches in America, who unlike KD have shown the ability to lead and to put together a competent football program that will compete for titles in their respective conferences.

I think to me what is really  a "dangerous proposition" is that we live in a sports world we have so many "pundits" such as Trev Alberts posing as "analysts" of the game, proffering opinions on a game that is not grounded on any kind of reality. These guys are always out there hacking away with opinions favorable to incumbent regimes so that they can maintain their precious access, and in return they end up doing a total disservice not to just the fans of that specific team, but the entire game by providing a narrative that is not based on any kind of facts. It is pathetic but also dangerous because it often comes across as outside pressure on institutions to retain mediocre head coaches like Karl Dorrell, who would be replaced by now if they worked in a real life job that judged him based on tangible accomplishments, instead of judging by his "demeanor" and how he "interacts" with other people at his job.

GO BRUINS.

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Trev has a problem
He has an opinion which is not backed up by any facts.  Hence, he sounds exactly like Coach Dorrell when he is challenged to provide a factual basis for his opinion:  He responds in cliches.  

Trev is obviously not brilliant at what he does.  He is mediocre on a good day.  Hence, he has an affinity for Coach Dorrell.  I wonder if he would like his surgeon or his stockbroker or his pilot to be correct a whopping 58% of the time.

by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 5:44 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Trev is a moron and a liar
I wrote that email to him and signed it DumpDorrell ... it came from my DumpDorrell email address at gmail. It was not anonymous.

This guy just made himself look worse ... he never explains what is in fact "incredible" about the job Dorrell has done.  And he expects us to accept mediocrity. What a moron ... and a liar. Nestor pretty much covers the rest.

by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 8:36 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

let me be more specific
I signed it "editor of DumpDorrell.com" ... that is not anonymous.

by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 8:37 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what an idiot
that is the dumbest non-response I have ever read. Most people on this board think Dorrell is a grade F coach. I grade him D+, but nobody in their right mind would say he was a good coach. Albert does, and then instead of defending it, says, well you don't pay him very much, and you guys don't make the investment to be competitive. What an idiot. UCLA has had top notch football teams forever, with some down years, but not 3 down years in 4, and not 3 .500 seasons in 4 years.

Albert is a tool. He should work for Tony Snow.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 9:11 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Albert's skewed perspective...
...is reflective of the entire Division I football landscape.  $UC is a football mill.  True, it has a few first-rate schools on campus but it is not an academic institution on the standard of UCLA, Cal or Stanford.  Neither are Alabama, Penn State, Ohio State or...cough...Miami.  (Michigan and ND are anomolies.)  Recruiting for Dorrell is more difficult because he is restricted to bringing in studs who also have demonstrated some academic capability.  That's just not true across town, or across the nation.  The athletes that matriculate to $UC, or any of the SEC schools, are able to focus on developing their NFL game rather than attending class and remaining academically eligible.  Moreover, anyone old enough to remember OJ at $UC has heard about the various means he 'earned' spending money while a stu...er...running back for the NFL-Jr. Condoms.
So, Trev's observation that UCLA is successful while just treading water is based on the fact that schools like $UC are able to bring in more than 85 scholarships (hiding them under some nearby rock?), keep them on retainer and overlook their borderline academic performances until they have exhausted their eligibility.  Just like 'Bama and all the rest of the mills.  
I say, keep Dorrell for another year.  Once he's gone 11-1, won the Rose Bowl, and signed an entire class of 5-star blue chippers, then he can stay another year...or move on and make room for another coach.  Say, is Tommy Prothro still alive?
UCLA - the finest public university in the world

by SecondGenBruin on Apr 30, 2007 9:16 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The best thing about...
watching UCLA athletes once they've gone on to the big shows is that they're actually able to coherently string together complete sentences, and make sense during a press conference.

My gf and I were watching the end of the Golden State/Mavs game last night, and Baron Davis was talking to Pam Oliver, and the first thing she said was "Whoa, he's articulate."

Indeed.  Too bad the same thing can't be said about our football coach.

by CAJason80 on Apr 30, 2007 9:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Admission Standards = Red Herring
We did not win all of those banners and national championships with lower admission standards.

Our standards are what they are and our other coaches can both recruit and win with them.

The argument that we cannot be competitive with our admission standards is an argument that we should drop down to Division II.

There's no historic support for the argument. And, there's no need to drop down to a lower level of competition.

Instead of lowering the standards for our student athletes, how about raising the standard for our football coach?

sjh

by Class of 66 on Apr 30, 2007 1:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

KD and TP
I have written several times about what a great coach TP was... I was in school at the time and recounted comments from player friends who were motivated and became passionate about their ability to win, even with less talent, under the tutelage of TP. UCLA, under the previous Chancellor, Carnesale (sp?), set up KD, protected him big time, and now we are living with the results. A joke!!!
Bill
BillSouthBay

by BillSouthBay on Apr 30, 2007 9:30 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure Bill remembers
how Coach Prothro used to drive us crazy.  Nothing was a fixed concept.  We had lots of third down punts and fourth down runs.  We did on-sides kicks.  We had a sleeper play and a 60 yard touchdown against Washington.  But we never had trouble getting a play called.  And we never "forgot" who was on the sidelines, or thanked justsc for allowing us to play them.

Plus Coach Prothro told it like it really was, and didn't resort to hiding behind cliches.  When we played Tennessee (at Tennessee) after beating justsc 20-16, we got literally robbed by the refs.  (Things like putting the ball on the left hashmark (or the right - whichever one favored the Vols) so they could run their best wide play to the same side of the field every time.  They gave them ridiculously favorable spots.  It was very very obvious.)  Coach Prothro didn't talk in cliches.  He made it clear - He said the refs were so bad in Tennessee that it made him "ashamed to be a Southerner."  

And he achieved success without a zillion blue-chip athletes.  When we beat MSU in the Rose Bowl in '66, our monster stud defensive tackle, Big John Richardson, tipped the scales at a whopping 225.  (Bob Apisa, MSU's fullback, weighed more.)  And parked next door to Richardson in our defensive line was our other monster defensive tackle, Terry Donahue, all 196 pounds of him.

Coach Prothro's record with the players Coach Dorrell has had would be at least ten wins better.  He was a brilliant coach.  An innovator, and a motivator.  He was the anti-Dorrell.  Frankly, it's insulting to guys like Coach Prothro and those who followed him to use the same honorific with Mr. Dorrell.  Hence, my mild protest.  I will no longer use the same word that is used to describe the positions held by Prothro, Howland et al, to describe Mr. Dorrell.  He does not deserve to have that term used with his name.  He is Mr. Dorrell from now on for me.

Or more briefly, I agree with Bill that TP was a great coach.

by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 12:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TP and memories
Those were the days!!!!
BillSouthBay

by BillSouthBay on Apr 30, 2007 1:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TP
Of course, as I have said before, the best was TP, during warmups, standing at the 50 yard line, chain smoking cigarettes, all alone, and acting like he owned the stadium, the players on both sides, and all else that mattered. Talk about leadership and motivating his team!!!
The other fact is that he only cashed paychecks when the payroll department begged him to, as he would accumulate them in the coat for months and never think about doing anything with them, or in the glove compartment of his car....
Bill
BillSouthBay

by BillSouthBay on Apr 30, 2007 3:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

KD and BH
One the one hand you have a guy known for remembering birthdays around the AD. On the other hand, you have a guy who is all over the school to improve the practice facilities, upgrade Pauley Pavilion (long overdue), and is out there on the recruiting trails kicking a**, and taking names. Any conclusions anyone?
Bill
BillSouthBay

by BillSouthBay on Apr 30, 2007 10:57 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who supports KD? A tell-all list:
I am truly struggling to figure out what would make anyone support KD. I am starting a list of those who I believe are behind him, feel free to debunk/add to it.

1. Previous teammates (I bet it's not even all of them)
2. Previous coach (up-the-middle Donahue)
3. U$C fans/coaches
4. Other Pac-10 fans/coaches
5. His family
6. Trev Albert
7. Any cock-eyed optimist who sees "progress" in this program (where's the data?)
8. People who like mediocrity
9. People who are afraid of being politically incorrect
10. Marjorie, the Morgan Center administrative assistant to whom he wished a happy birthday last Tuesday

I guess that's a lot of people, if he's still around...did I leave anyone out? I'm undecided on DG, though up to this point he is in that group...

by tasser10 on Apr 30, 2007 11:28 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I support KD this year
and will until the end of the season. I hope he puts it together this year and wins the PAC 10.

If he doesn't,it will be time for him to go. If the defense is a top 5 defense in the country, I would give the job to Walker.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 1:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No you don't
You support our team. That is different. Maybe I should have said "based on his record to date", who supports KD at this very moment. I equate supporting him with calling him a good coach. If you think otherwise, please explain.

by tasser10 on Apr 30, 2007 1:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do support him
I want him to coach out the year, and I want him to succeed. Now, do I think he will? Probably not, but I am not one of those people who have no hope and think he can't become a better coach. It is unlikely he will ever be a great coach, but it is possible.

So, at this point in time I do support him, because he is the UCLA Coach, and he runs a clean program. And if he performs very well next year, and shows he has become a better coach, I would be very happy to have him back in 2008. If he doesn't show he has become a good coach, I would be very happy to see him go.

Now, to your question, do I think he has performed well? No. He has earned a D+ in my book so far on his performance, and that is only because he runs a clean program and graduates his players. He's not horrible, but he is below average.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 2:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Conditional support
is the same as no support, in my opinion. I think my question was geared more at finding out who are the people who think he has done well. Potential is subjective, we all support anyone with potential. Performance is concrete and measurable. And he is measurably mediocre.

by tasser10 on Apr 30, 2007 2:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

#11
11. All the Parks and Rec kids who get free tickets in the end zone. If KD was producing, the AD could actually sell those seats. I don't think sc has blocks of 20,000 available tickets to give away for free.

by UCngLA on Apr 30, 2007 9:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DG and KD
I am sure, since it makes no sense to be otherwise, that DG inherited KD (in that KD was hired by Carnesale, really), and has to deal with the political issues at UCLA in that regard. DG has done well with other hires, even if he stumbled into BH, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Bill
BillSouthBay

by BillSouthBay on Apr 30, 2007 1:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like Many "Reporters" Trev Looks Lazy
We've been spoiled by BN.

Our posts are rooted in fact and analysis.

As I've said often, this is the most "academic/intellectual" sports site I've found. That makes sense. We're Bruins. We don't leave our brains on the floor when our fingers touch the keyboards.

I've done a lot of things that end up in the press. At first I was amazed at how few reporters took the time to get it right. Then, I learned to manipulate the lazy press by drafting pleadings that looked like press releases. Voila! Stories that borrowed from, paraphrased or outright stole my themes and story lines.

Very few reporters go beneath the rhetoric to get to the facts.

Trev's work shows that he is a shallow lazy man.

And, when DumpDorrell gave him the facts, instead of incorporating them into a follow up piece, he veered off and dodged a confrontation -- probably because either he knew he could not win, or he just didn't want to do the work to challenge DD's presentation.

At least all he's fucking up is sports coverage. Think of the early coverage of the War in Iraq and the failure of the mainstream press to do it's own factual investigation, its use of the party line, and its surrender of its independence.

Lazy is Lazy -- be it on the front page or on some obscure blog. Unfortunately, it's the new standard for the mass media.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Apr 30, 2007 1:47 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I had two brief contacts with the press
in the 1980's when I was with TWA.  Each time the reporter wanted me to confirm something.  When I couldn't confirm it (because it wasn't true), the story got reported the way the reporter wanted to report it, and the comment attributed to me was "airline officials would not deny" blah, blah, blah.

So after the second time, I just said "no comment."  It wasn't worth the fuss.

I agree that Trev is a long way from Woodward and Bernstein.

by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 2:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Karl Dorrell is only as good as his assistants
then why do we need a head coach??

Its incredible when idiots like Trev are making excuses for Dorrell's performance such as the "assistants pay" excuse.  That one I dont get at all. If Karl is only as good as his assistants then we certainly dont need Karl. Instead, lets use the money we are paying him to hire the best assistants and send Karl packing.  We would get better coaching AND save money.

by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 2:26 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Most excellent head coaches are experts
at offense or defense, so they can spend a lot on a coordinator to handle what they aren't good at: (Pete Carrol and Norm Chow) and not pay much for a cooridnator for what they do well (Pete Carrol really runs the Defense, and has a more junior guy as the Defenive Coordinator)

Because KD needs a top notch O coordinator and D coordinator, it is more expensive.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Apr 30, 2007 2:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's even more ridiculous
is the argument that we're not paying coaches at this point.  Norvell and Walker's salaries are on par with assistant salaries at Cal and Oregon.

Dorrell is paid peanuts because he was hired under Dalis, and had no experience base to demand  higher pay (or, frankly, a job).

Now we're stuck with mediocrity, and the argument that Trev throws out there is "You pay middling dollars?  Who else are you going to get?"

I think it's fairly obvious at this point we wouldn't pay middling dollars for a good coach - we certainly wouldn't pay Saban-level coin, but Good Lord, how much does a competent coach ala Steve Kragthorpe cost?  Certainly not more than we're willing to pay.

It's an entirely ciruclar argument, and it's annoying.

by CAJason80 on Apr 30, 2007 3:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

incidentally
in my email to Trev Albert that he quotes I included the factual list of Karl Dorrell's record that we keep at DD and that we have all seen here on BN and elsewhere. So Trev read my email obviously and he STILL came back with that response.  Its not that this guy didnt have the facts, he did.

by DumpDorrell on Apr 30, 2007 3:05 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Trev and DD
Well, since we are all graduates of one of the finest universities in the world, the reasoning here re: Trev is that he had an agenda, and wanted wording to match his slant, which has to be that KD is a wonderful.... I can't finish the thought..too  painful.
Re: Potential. I do believe that people can improve, given certain variables. KD, since he has hired so many assistants, may actually be improving in the quality of assistants and learning to pick out the winners. His recruiting looks to have improved as well. My issue with all of this is that, as the rest of the board experiences, we are not getting younger and by the time KD "gets it", we could all be 6 feet under.
Bill
BillSouthBay

by BillSouthBay on Apr 30, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Potential
Remember Paul Pettit, the original $100,000 bonus baby of the Pirates back in the 50's.  He was the new Cy Young.  He won one game lifetime.  He tried to make it as an outfielder, and had two hits lifetime.  But he had Lots and Lots of potential.

We all have potential.  The potential to be better people, good citizens, and all that.  But sometimes we are judged on our record.  Our total body of work in the past is likely a good predictor of how well we will achieve our goals in the future.  I see no reason to believe that Mr. Dorrell's potential is such that we have reason to believe that next season will be any different from the last season.  

The FSU game suggested that the thought of "potential" based on the justsc game was misplaced.  So now we have spring practice to look at.  The potential seems to be exactly the same as last year.  No third down passes that get to the first down marker.  

I think Mr. Dorrell is this century's Paul Pettit in terms of potential.  He showed enough to get a nice job and a nice salary, but he couldn't perform.  And why should we have thought otherwise?  If the surprise announcement had been Fox 71 as the new head football coach, would anyone have expected more than a .580 winning percentage?  

No more "potential."  

by Fox 71 on Apr 30, 2007 6:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You nailed it
You are right--all of us, including KD--have potential.  

This begs the question--why was he hired in the first place?  I really, really don't want or intend to be mean-spirited here, and thus, lets get the usual caveats out of the way:  he's a nice guy, a good citizen, honest, an alum, runs a clean program, etc.  These are all excellent qualities and I don't mean to understate them.  Heck, KD even went to my high school (but so did Reggie Bush.  But so did Bill Walton).

The mistake was made when he was hired.  Yes, KD had potential back then and he could have turned out great (and maybe he still will, some of you are thinking).  The bottom line is that, generally speaking, you want to hire a proven winner.  I know, I know, it's a safer bet to go with someone who has proven themselves.  But so what?  This isn't the charity business, is it, folks?

by Barnes2JJ on Apr 30, 2007 7:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So did Alex Smith
I had no idea KD went to Helix High

by SuperBruinMan on Apr 30, 2007 8:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep
As did Dennis Hopper who could, potentially, be an outstanding UCLA football coach.

by Barnes2JJ on May 1, 2007 7:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly
Unfortunately, although KD does have the potential to become a good coach, this season can also POTENTIALLY be a total disaster. That's not the kind of potential we like.

Seriously, I feel like some people who are really good at the video game football could have called better plays last year.

by tasser10 on May 1, 2007 7:16 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Division I or Division II
Gee, I hate to digress from the weighing-in against KD (not that I don't enjoy this discussion) there was a comment by Class of 66 suggesting that perhaps UCLA should drop down to Division II if we can't recruit student athletes under current conditions - and perhaps I misunderstand his point...

But I believe that schools that DON'T field a team of student-athletes (i.e., those whose players don't enroll in legitimate academic programs, or who don't legitimately maintain an adequate GPA or other measurable academic performance) should not be allowed to compete at the Division I level.  That would eliminate most SEC programs, specifically Florida, a 'university' whose academic standing is anemic alongside most schools in the PAC 10.  Forcing a program to undergo outside scrutiny would certainly help to clean up the recruiting behavior at many of the football mills mentioned above.  Is this going to happen?  Never.  Division I football is a huge cash cow that the NCAA will never really regulate as long as the TV and sponsor dollars are there.

And the question remains, even if these ideal changes were made, would KD be able to field a successful team from year to year?  Would TP?  Yes.  With a smaller team, with less scholarships, and even less fan support.  But along the way, we keep forgetting the disappointments of Billy Barnes, Pepper Rodgers and even Terry Donahue.  BTW, just to offer a limp argument for KD:  Coach Wooden arrived in 1947(?) and didn't bring in his first championship for seventeen years.  But even through my rose-colored glasses, I don't see DG giving KD THAT much time...

Go Bruins

UCLA - the finest public university in the world

by SecondGenBruin on May 1, 2007 8:35 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you really comparing Coach Wooden
to Mr. Dorrell?  Think about that for a second, then contact Nestor to see if he'll remove your post.  

by Fox 71 on May 1, 2007 9:12 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry, I was being sarcastic --
"The argument that we cannot be competitive with our admission standards is an argument that we should drop down to Division II.

There's no historic support for the argument."

I was trying to make clear that we have and should be able to compete in Division I -- even with our admission standards.

I tried to drive the point home with what I perceive the problem to be -- we have a coach who does not meet Division I standards.

"Instead of lowering the standards for our student athletes, how about raising the standard for our football coach?"

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 1, 2007 3:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

While Wooden didn't win...
He came awfully close.  And I don't think UCLA was a basketball powerhouse in the 30s.

by SuperBruinMan on May 1, 2007 6:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

95 Team
The NC champs back in 95 had several members of the team make the Deans list.

Blaming the admissions policy is just a scapegoat.

by artybruin on May 1, 2007 3:43 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lay off Alberts
He went to Nebraska, so it's not like he was educated. We can't expect a graduate of that glorified JC to make an argument.

by BruinsRule on Sep 20, 2007 12:59 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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