We Have a Long, Long Way To Go
Another must read guest blog post from Bruin Blue, which gives us a little dose of reality. GO BRUINS. - N
And I mean that in every context. There are many more games to be played. No matter how much many people might want the season to be over, it is not. And with more games of course comes at least the theoretical chance for Karl Dorrell to save his hide. We've seen it happen before here, in both football and basketball. UCLA doesn't like to fire coaches, and particularly this one. Dan Guerrero has to this point done everything possible to support and keep Dorrell around. Most of us wouldn't have dreamed of hiring him in the first place, but he did; and he can't pass the buck to Chancellor Carnesale for that. And he kept him around after 12-13 in his first two years, and after 29-21 for four seasons. So who can say what Guerrero's calculus might be as to what it would take to end this regime. Would 8-4 keep Dorrell around? How about 7-5 and a minor Bowl win? Probably not; but after our history of maintaining bad coaches (can anyone still imagine that we kept Lavin around for seven years???), I cannot be confident. Dorrell still has time to save himself in Guerrero's eyes.
Considering how absolutely awful we looked against Utah, it wouldn't seem likely that we could still win eight or nine games. But we are simply not as bad as we looked--almost no team is as bad or as good as their last game. Obviously, I overrated our team, and particularly our quarterback. And even I underrated just how bad our head coach is. (You'll be happy to know that I finally decided against betting the "over" on season wins, and decided to play it game by game. With the Utah odds so high--7 to 1!--a wager was prohibitive, so I am literally minus $1 on UCLA so far, and consider myself very lucky). But there is still talent on hand--it didn't just go away. And perhaps Pat Cowan will be back in a week or two, and he'll change the dynamic, and we'll be at least as good as last year, with an easier schedule. Maybe I'm just girding myself for the possibility of having to see Dorrell around for another year, but would it be that surprising if we beat Washington at home, Oregon State at Corvallis, and then Notre Dame here? If we did that, we would be 5-1, with all the "Blues" solidly back on the bandwagon, and the team full of confidence once again Now, I don't know if any of that would be enough against Cal or Oregon. It certainly wouldn't seem to be against Southern Cal. I would figure that 9-3 is the best we could hope for, and it could get much worse than that, depending on possible internal friction. And it may well be that a loss as devastating as Saturday's cannot be recovered from. But we've seen Donahue's teams get humiliated, and good old Terry bounce back for one of his patented 7-3-1 campaigns. We saw Lavin get massacred at Maples, and destroyed at Durham, and at the end of the year he was still standing. This may well be different, but I'll believe it when I see it.
But let's assume that Dorrell flounders to such an extent that Guerrero is absolutely forced to make a coaching change. That would be a major step forward--except that then we would be faced with our familiar bete noir--the coaching search. We have failed at this time and time again in football; and it was only after all those bad hires in basketball that we finally got it right with Ben Howland. For a supporter of a program, a coaching search with a chance at a fresh start can be exhilarating; but at UCLA it is something else entirely. It has more often been a nightmarish process, filled with stupidity, insularity, lack of imagination and financial wherewithal, and exhibiting a just plain failure of nerve .It's easy to see that most other schools upgrade to as good a coach as they can obtain at their level. Bama goes all out and gets Saban. Florida does the same for Meyer. Arizona State gets Erickson; Michigan State grabs Dantonio from Cincy; NC State lands O'Brien from BC. North Carolina, which has virtually no football history, somehow comes up big to get Butch Davis, the coach I always wishfully wanted in Westwood, but knew we would never hire. But UCLA, time and time again, not only settles for, but actually goes after untested lightweights, such as Donahue, Toledo (okay, there was a bid for Gary Barnett, but when he stayed at Northwestern, they went immediately to Toledo), and then, in one sickening feat of outdoing even our own miserable hiring history, Dorrell. I don't know exactly what it is--a combination of influential alumni who apparently know little about football; athletic directors who don't seem any better in that area; an insular "we want Bruins!" attitude; cheapness and sanctimonious political correctness--perhaps all of these .As closely as I follow college sports, I cannot think of one major school which comes close to us in the ineptitude of our coaching searches. Well, we finally changed that in basketball,; but that is a different sport; and we were so very lucky to have one of the nation's best coaches actually desiring this job. In football, it's not like that, and we would have to do the groundwork to find and then land the right coach, because it's unlikely that the football equivalent of Ben Howland is going to be actively campaigning for the job. Are we capable of doing this right, just once? We can all hope, but our history does not inspire us with confidence.
And the "right" coach is exactly what we desperately need here. It is almost certain that any hire will be better than Dorrell, but that hardly makes it the right hire. We can easily be fooled by the next guy (as we were sort of fooled by Toledo), simply because whoever he is, he will come in and at least have some idea of how to run an offense, so we will look better. But rest assured we need much more than that . Just we did in basketball, we have let the rest of the conference catch up to and pass us over the last decades. Southern Cal of course is in another league. California has gone past us, and Oregon essentially has, too. And they both have very solid coaches, almost certainly better than any "okay" coach we would hire. It's no longer the case, as in the Donahue era, where we could count on our talent advantages to allow us to be a conference power even with a mediocre coach in charge. And don't forget Arizona State, as Erickson is a proven big winner in the college game. That's not to mention Oregon State with a fairly solid Riley; Washington with Willingham, who is much better than the people at Notre Dame think; and Washington State with Doba, who usually beats us. The truth is that if we don't hire a big-time coach here, we are going to be stuck in the middle of the Pac-10 for years. We already have seen just what talent deficits Dorrell's unique brand of recruiting has left us with. What kind of year can we expect to have next season, or the one after, even with a solid coach in here?
Which brings us to names of potential coaches. Maybe it's early for that, but I don't think so. It's ironic; I like to pride myself on my ability to find the best potential coaching hires; but somehow we have waited so long that many of the people I would have wanted a few years ago are unavailable. Butch Davis might well have been a major name mentioned, had we jettisoned Dorrell last year, but no more. When the bogus coaching search of five years ago was made, I mentioned Les Miles, then at Oklahoma State, and Tom O'Brien at BC; but we're not getting either of those now. I was very impressed with ex-Tressel DC Dantonio at Cincinnati; but he's already gone to Michigan State to turn that program around. Petrino might have been a longshot for us; but he's gone, too. So what are we left with? There is no Howland-type coach (someone who has won big in a major conference) that we could get . That leaves us with coaches who have shown success at smaller programs, or highly touted assistant coaches. My guess is that we will not go after the latter, simply because we have hired so many assistant-types here.That might be a mistake, because the next Urban Meyer or Bob Stoops could be out there; but it's very unlikely that Guerrero would have enough contacts and acumen to unearth him. Our mistake was always in hiring from the Donahue tree. but it has probably made us gunshy of hiring someone who has never been a head man. Now, of the former group--current head coaches at lesser programs--we have such possibilities as Gary Patterson of TCU; Mike Leach of Texas Tech (I will mention that I would not want his gimmick-offense, no defense style here, and yet I think that he may ultimately be the actual choice, because he wants this job, and people remember that he beat Tedord in a Bowl); Chris Peterson of Boise State, perhaps Jim Grobe of Wake Forest. Of that group, I would probably prefer Peterson, because of what he showed us last year. I think that the failures of other Boise State coaches Koetter and Hawkins shouldn't be a negative against him. And then of course there is Rick Neuheisel, but I doubt that UCLA would hire him at this stage. And Steve Mariucci, who is intriguing, but may be more image than substance. And that unfortunately may be the entire list--unless we look at Mike Riley again. What are the odds that Guerrero and his search committee is going to find a diamond in the rough that most of us had never considered, but who could be the next Bob Stoops or Meyer? (Meyer of course might well have come here in 2002, but of course we were busy compiling our list of Dorrell, Greg Robinson and Riley). The sad thing is that right now I can't think of someone that I would be really excited about--someone who would actually make Pete Carroll sit up and take notice. Even if Carroll leaves, you can bet that Garrett will make a big hire; and we need to have someone here who is as good a coach as there is in the conference; otherwise rest assured we will take a backseat to those schools which have better coaches, just like we did in basketball, until we got the best coach in the league in Howland. The name UCLA doesn't mean enough any more--we have to have the right coach here.
Because finally, it should be obvious that we do have a long, long way to go to get where we want to be, among the very best football programs in the nation. For too long there has been a myth that too many UCLA fans and alumni have deluded themselves with--that we are a solid football program, albeit perhaps not in the very top echelon. But the truth is that in the last twenty years, we have had six losing seasons, and a few other ones where we barely broke even. We have not won anything better than the Cotton Bowl in over twenty years. We have played in only one BCS Bowl since the format began. We go to Emerald Bowls and Vegas Bowls and Silicon Valley Bowls--and we can't even win those. How many times since that glorious battle with Southern Cal in '67 have we gone into the last game of the season with a legitimate chance to win the national title? Just once, when we played Miami in that fateful game in '98. We are not close to the level of an Oklahoma or Ohio State or Florida, LSU or Texas, not to mention our ever-present crosstown rival, who likes to laugh at us. Those are the schools that play in the big games, while we delude ourselves because except for the annual battle with the Trojans,we don't have to play such teams, and so we think that beating Washington State or Stanford in the last minutes, or Northwestern in a Bowl game is something to be really proud of. It's lucky for us that there is no football playoff, because we would never, ever be in it. It is so bad, that there is a legion of Bruin fans who are utterly convinced that we should be content with seven or so wins a year, and trying hard. It will take a long time, and a really good coach, to change the football mindset in Westwood. I have always held out hope; but even I am not sure it can be done at this stage. But I am certain that if there still is that hope, then we had damn well better get it right this time, or there might not be much of a next time, considering the commitments which so many other schools have made to hiring the best coach available, and to spending the funds to bring their program to the highest possible level,.while our athletic deparment and too many of our fans don't seem to have any realistic conception of what is necessary.
-Bruin Blue
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Another epic post
We are also in it for the long haul. We are not going away.
GO BRUINS.
by Nestor on
Sep 18, 2007 5:18 AM PDT
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I am fearing that KD has move lives than Lavin
by bluegold on
Sep 18, 2007 7:52 AM PDT
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Well said, but one little nitpick...
by Westwood Wizard on
Sep 18, 2007 8:04 AM PDT
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Nice
by godblesstyus95 on
Sep 18, 2007 8:05 AM PDT
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Unfortunately no argument here/Bob Field
by SinnerBoy 99 on
Sep 18, 2007 8:34 AM PDT
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SDSU-Coach Long
I just hope we don't get another KD in the process...
by HoozierDaddy on
Sep 18, 2007 10:52 AM PDT
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what about Dennis Green?
by bruinliv on
Sep 18, 2007 9:11 AM PDT
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This post highlights the worst case scenario
That is why it so important to fire him now. Let him run out the rest of the string or get him off the sideline altogether - it doesn't matter. Just make sure he's not back next year. Ryebreadraz and others are concerned that firing the man in the empty suit might have an adverse effect on recruiting. Well, Rye, you're looking at a team full of recruits hand picked by Coach Toledo's successor, and I don't seen any absolute standouts (especially now that Davis is sidelined.) Plus I don't care if some time (a year max) is needed in the recovery room. The surgery is necessary to save the life of the program. Even if the recruits bail out (a premise I do NOT accept), it's far better to have no recruits and no Coach Toledo's successor than to have him and his recruits.
Firing him now is the only solution and the best solution.
by Fox 71 on
Sep 18, 2007 9:40 AM PDT
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The wait doesn't have to be so long
The same is true with players. Good players need 3-5 years to develop. Greats burst onto the scene.
The right coach, recruiting and DEVELOPING the right players will have us climbing the mountain in his second year and probably have us where we want to be in the national picture within 4 seasons.
by TCbruin32 on
Sep 18, 2007 9:53 AM PDT
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Karl Dorrell
by reedasimon on
Sep 18, 2007 9:57 AM PDT
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Time for the alumni to step up
1,000 bruin faithful to donate $5K
or
5,000 Bruin Football fans to throw in a grand
or
10,000 of the 90K that watched the SC game last year to donate $500 and end this now.
by uclaron1 on
Sep 18, 2007 10:15 AM PDT
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Ahhh, the sobering reality...
Although we are in many ways a two-sport school, I think we are still a LONG ways off in football. It's the lack of true championship tradition (one shared title in '54), the inconsistency in the fan-base, the lack of continuity in the program, the "soft" image, and the ever-growing shadow that is being cast onto us by $C football. I think that's a lot to overcome, and ultimately, I think it translates to a bunch of 7-9 win seasons.
What will it take to become a consistent 10-11 win program. Well, frankly, I think the Athletic Department is doing a deplorable job of promoting our athletic programs, upgrading facilities and raising the funds needed to compete with the true 2-sport powers. With all of our natural advantages (Westwood, academics, the Rose Bowl, SoCal talent base), we should be a consistent top-15 team with the ability to hand-pick recruits/coaches. Instead, UCLA football always seems to be an afterthought. I mean, why was Karl Dorrell hired in the first place? Elite football programs do not hire coaches like Karl Dorrell. It's the same over-riding mentality that leaves us with an outdated Pauley Pavilion/Jackie Robinson stadium. We all want/expect greatness, but our Athletic Dept. doesn't seem to be doing what it takes to achieve it.
Add to that a general lack of leadership/guidance in the PAC-10 commisioner's office, and we're really fighting an uphill battle...
Sorry to get off-topic a bit, but I think the problems with our football program really start at the TOP, not necessarily with Karl Dorrell.
by norcalbruin95 on
Sep 18, 2007 11:05 AM PDT
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Yes, you're right
by bluegold on
Sep 18, 2007 11:24 AM PDT
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What else is there?
In other words, they will have the same background as Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, or Pete Carroll.
by SuperBruinMan on
Sep 18, 2007 1:34 PM PDT
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There's much more...
The point is, UCLA should be in a position to hire a well-known commodity as it's head coach. Instead, we're left to taking "risks" on the likes of Karl Dorrell/Bob Toledo. Of course we could stumble upon the next urban Meyer or Bob Stoops, but we could easily end up with the next Ron Zook or Ty Willingham.
by norcalbruin95 on
Sep 18, 2007 2:17 PM PDT
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SC likes to laugh...
by usclv on
Sep 18, 2007 11:10 AM PDT
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Dorrell's Replacement
The only other listed name intriguing to me is Chris Petersen from Boise State. His offensive creativity is exciting for fans to watch.
by bruinsinruins on
Sep 18, 2007 11:40 AM PDT
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And his current job is...
by SuperBruinMan on
Sep 18, 2007 1:40 PM PDT
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Just get rid of this guy!
by bb41 on
Sep 18, 2007 12:52 PM PDT
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in re. to DG
Dorrell should be removed at the end of the season, no argument. But remove DG if he does not? That would be a terrible decision.
- You stated that DG admitted to taking a risk on Dorrell. I think that a guy that brought in Howland and Savage is allowed to take a risk or two. Obviously, this risk did not pan out but that's just what a risk is. I'm stating the obvious but if the risk had worked out, you'd be praising him for taking that risk. Point is, the man took a risk and we shouldn't fault him for it; just pray that he's learned and won't look into someone as 'qualified' as Dorrell again.
- DG's track record. He brought in Howland and Savage to rejuvenate our basketball and baseball programs, so I think that at the least, he's earned the benefit of our doubts. And if DG were removed, UCLA has to find a new AD. What if an incompetent nutcase were hired to overlook ALL of UCLA athletics? DG is proven, no one should be calling for his head at this point. Let's take care of problems, not create new ones.
- Do you fire Dorrell for the sake of firing him? As much as he's failed in his capacity has the HC, shouldn't we fire him to improve our program? If a good candidate cannot be found (in the worst case scenario), we run the risk of hiring Dorrell Jr. Is that what we want to do?
by uclabruin07 on
Sep 18, 2007 1:52 PM PDT
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Dorrell Must Go Regardless
A good coach would never let his team get blown out by a far inferior team. Unfortunately, every season under Dorrell there are the inexplicable loses. The lesson of Utah (and Fresno State, Arizona, FSU, etc. etc. etc.) can not be forgotten. Sure a good coach is going to suffer some upsets. That's part of the game. And even a lousy coach can catch a couple of breaks and pull off a successful season like Dorrell, circa 2005.
No matter what happens the rest of the season, the sediments expressed this week by the Bruin faithful must not be forgotten. The way to long term success is to end the Karl Dorrell experiment and move on. If not now, then no latter than December 2.
by Bruin77 on
Sep 18, 2007 1:55 PM PDT
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Norm Chow
by SuperBruinMan on
Sep 18, 2007 1:36 PM PDT
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DG and KD
Bill
by BillSouthBay on
Sep 18, 2007 2:35 PM PDT
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Let's get real...the challenge is bigger
- Fans that come to the game (LA fans love winners but we are not winners consistently.) We can not even get fans to wear blue. Why does this matter, well...
- Willingness to pay real money for coaches. We will lose Howland because of $$ if we don't watch out. We could not pay Meyer what he makes at Florida. How would we get Mariucci if we wanted him? Other schools that wanted him would pay more. We are forced to go to people that have a connection with UCLA because we don't pay great (thank goodness that Howland had a connection to UCLA!).
- Easier admission standards. We have the toughest among the top 25 football schools. One coach said it was not just the official standards...players have to fit into an academically demanding environment to enjoy life in Westwood.
- Eliminate Pete Carroll. SC is the football school in LA. Our success over the last 25 years has correlated to when SC is down. We can compete but when SC has a great coach we go to the middle of the pack.
- A stadium on campus. The Rose Bowl is glorious--particularly for tailgating alumni--but it is not on campus.
by bruinstom on
Sep 18, 2007 4:45 PM PDT
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All points
About fans - we have no problem getting them if we put up the results.
Money excuse - UCLA did pay Howland unUCLA like $$ to get him here. And it will pay what it needs to keep him here. Moreover, it is paying more than its share to keep some overhyped UCLA assistants, i.e. keeping Walker away from ND. So money excuse doesn't flu.
Admission standards - whatever. this is an excuse for the losers. A solid coach will not cry about this problem.
PC - There is plenty of talent around Southern Cal that UCLA can recruit despite PC's tactics. Note how Dorrell has been able to recruit better than Tedford despite being a sorry coach. So that excuse doesn't fly.
Stadium on campus - UCLA can be a great football school playing at the Rose Bowl. Instead of making excuse for it, they should embrace it.
The points you made are BS excuses we have heard over the years to make excuses for Dorrell. We have discussed it ad nauseum. And you can look them up.
We just need a guy who can get the job done and we we will once again become a very good football school.
by Nestor on
Sep 18, 2007 4:56 PM PDT
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No More Excuses
The attendance issue is only logical. Fans support winners. UCLA was out drawing $c in the late 90's.
The pay issue had some credence in the past under previous AD's. Not so much any more. I believe UCLA is limited in how much the base salary can be, but the big bucks are in the shoe and media contracts. You think coaches are doing interviews on the pre-game shows for free? Its part of their contract. The only element missing for better salaries is an endowment fund that can be used to augment the coach's salary or buy it out when necessary.
If admission standards are such a limiting factor, how does that explain the success of UCLA's other athletic programs? Are you saying top football recruits are not as academically capable as top athletes in other sports? As N said, that is an excuse for losers.
Nestor addressed the PC recruiting dominance issue. But there is more to winning than just talent. A good coach will get his players to a new level. A good coach will also be able to identify those diamonds in the rough.
The Rose Bowl issue is another canard. While the atmosphere is different than an on-campus facility, I don't think it matters to the players. The Rose Bowl venue, with its historical reputation should be a positive, not a negative. Also, the overall state of athletic facilities is another old issue that has been thrown around as a limiting factor in Bruin athletic success. UCLA has a 100 freakin' national Championships. How can the athletic program be so successful in such a variety of sports, except football, with sub-par facilities? Are football recruits the only ones interested in the quality of the weight room?
Bottom line, even if the issues that were raised are real, a good coach (especially one who envisions himself as the CEO) finds a way to overcome them.
by Bruin77 on
Sep 18, 2007 5:30 PM PDT
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Not an Excuse
In fact, I think the point is that we have to have the perfect guy in place to get where we all want to be: an elite football school competing for BCS bowls and national championships every year.
But it means we have to be especially effective in our hunt for a new head coach. And figure out what is great at UCLA to build that connection with the candidate we (OK, DG) want.
by bruinstom on
Sep 18, 2007 5:46 PM PDT
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What if? What if? What if?
I don't know how many of you have gone to a game on campus, especially when you're coming back to school from a long distance and after a long time. My wife took me to a game on campus at her teeny midwestern school, and I have to tell you that I got really excited. Anyway, that's long in the past. I don't know if anything can be done about it, but I think an on-campus stadium would shift us to light speed in our quest to put UCLA on the football map.
by Fox 71 on
Sep 18, 2007 5:05 PM PDT
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... and would shift us all to neutral...
I would LOVE to see games at an on-campus stadium, but come on, Fox. The 405 between the 101 and Santa Monica Blvd. is already the single-worst nightmare of a transport location since the parking garage where they did the prison transfer for Lee Harvey Oswald.
M
by Meriones on
Sep 19, 2007 12:44 PM PDT
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I confess a slight lack of knowledge
Dodger Statium gets 40k every night, but that location is primo in terms of funneling traffic to lots of different freeways.
But does it really make a difference? I guess we'll know when someone does an alternative history novel about UCLA and Bill, SJH and I were able to carry the day on that vote way back before you were around.
by Fox 71 on
Sep 19, 2007 1:49 PM PDT
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On Campus Stadium
I am sure an on-campus stadium would be great.
But I think for most of us for whom the Rose Bowl has always been UCLA's home stadium, we have no problem with the Rose Bowl. For as long as I've been "aware" of UCLA football, to me, the Rose Bowl has always been "home."
In other words, I guess I can't miss having an on-campus stadium because I have never had one (in football). Plus, I never had to consider the hideous Mausoleum as "home."
As a student, I was always thrilled to board a bus to go to games at the Rose Bowl. Post-graduation, I appreciate the Rose Bowl for the location, the tailgating, and everything I enjoyed as a student.
I would love to know what the players think about playing in the RB. For all of its faults, it is truly a great place.
by Barnes2JJ on
Sep 19, 2007 2:15 PM PDT
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The crapaseum
by Fox 71 on
Sep 19, 2007 8:17 PM PDT
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