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Around SBN: The MMA Hour Is Back

Man Bites Dog

Always prescient and in top form, our fearless host, Nestor, observed in a recent post:

"Watching CBS going to commercials would have given anyone (who was not paying attention to the game) that it was Arizona who was dominating and controlling the game. Just really odd and annoying." I am sure you realize that this bias goes back to Wooden's reign when -- after three or four consecutive titles -- everyone in the country was pulling for anyone to unseat UCLA. Cases in point: rooting for that unctuous sleaze Digger Phelps and his ND teams and reveling in upset in '74 by NC State (and that brigand David Thompson).

Packer, the late Al McGguire (who said that UCLA would not get another title before the turn of the century), and Vitale are notorious for this sentiment. McGuire lived to see UCLA hang banner number eleven in '95 and Vitale has affected the buffoon persona and, perforce, mediated his prejudice to attain the appearance of omni-roundball fan. Personal opinion: only the venerable Dick Enberg (who once broadcast the Walton Gang's games for KTLA) is remotely even-handed. But there are a host of others who adopt a certain tone of glee when reporting Bruin basketball misfortunes on the micro and macro levels.

A special place in Hell is reserved, however, for Mr Packer. His claim to fame is playing guard for the Wake and getting into the final four in '62. He is, during his career as a commentator, notorious for alternately stepping in it and taking huge bites of bis Bruno Maglis; cf. his Wikipedia entry. I recall his denigration going back to the Wooden era of the mid-sixties, gleefully reporting on UCLA's defeat by Notre Dame (or some other school). I kinda think ol' Billy developed the grudge because UCLA probably beat Wake in the consolation final four game in 1962.

Whatever.

But Mr. Packer got drilled by an overly cordial Ben Howland after the Arizona game when he tried to trot out the "deer-in-the-headlights" comment about Josh Shipp's play in the second half. Ben would have none of that, saying, in effect, that there are more apsects to a game than analysts see and that Shipp contributed materially outside of his shooting -- or lack thereof.

Chew on that, you bitter old man!

But we have always been targets for this. There has been nothing like the Bruin program before Wooden made his fantastic run and there will not likely be anything in the future. With an expanded field of 64 (I remember a field of 16 teams) and remarkable talents matriculating through schools -- only pausing for a short cup of coffee -- on their ways to the promised land of NBA megabucks, constancy will be harder than ever to achieve.

Happily, UCLA has arrived as a candidate closest to approximate the fantastic feats of its own days of yore. That Ben Howland pulled a moribund program up by its bootstraps, made the final four in the last two years, and will probably do very well this year (I am being conservative, not pessimistic). CBH has done so despite pro defections (meant affectionately) and a changing cast of characters; his UCLA teams appear to be the one constant in a rapidly changing milieu. Bill Walton had it right: "Order has been restored to the Universe."

Although the bias and short shrift goes beyond tediousness, UCLA is a victim of this because of its recent success. Most fans are beginning to realize that, once more, they may be facing another decade or two of those talented athletes in the Blue-and-Gold jerseys depriving them of whatever fleeting hope of fame they might have had with their teams' pathetic attempts to develop a dynasty.

If you can put yourself in their shoes for a brief, agonizing momment you will per understand. Don't you tire of the Condoms' perceived dominance on the gridiron? Who did not ache at the incessant bleating over the New England Patriots' potential for an undefeated season nor revel in the New York Giants upset in the Supre Bowl? Boston winning the World Series is so-o-o-o-o yesterday!

UCLA winning, if not already, will soon become the "dog bites man" of college basketball; Arizona or Stanford  -- or anyone defeating the Bruins -- will be the "man bites dog". Like high speed pursuits, messy traffic accidents, or O.J. trials, it sells.

..sells enough to cut to commercials with 05.7 seconds on the clock with the prospect of a UCLA loss hanging in the balance.

Like the old adage, "living well is the best revenge", UCLA can keep winning, hanging banners, and letting these idiots suck on that.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Al Maguire Lived to See Us Win in 1995
In fact, the basketball gods must have had it in for him because he called the Tyus Edney game against Missou . . . and made numerous racially insensitive comments along the way.  RIP, Al!

by charnaw on Mar 3, 2008 11:05 AM PST reply actions  

Quickdraw..
..credit (and thanks) goes to you for the correction. Thinking better of my original post, I checked his Wiki entry and found that McGuire (my spelling error) passed away in 2001. That he called arguably the signature highlight of that torunament for UCLA: Edney's coast-to-coast slam does speak for divine retribution.

While I cannot recall the insensitive remarks, I do remember Al as having publically recanted most of his denigration of UCLA basketball made years before.

God, it's great to be a Bruin!

by whp68 on Mar 3, 2008 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

Billy Packer
Does anyone like Billy Packer, UCLA fan or not? I haven't met anyone who likes Packer as a TV analyst.

by gilbert on Mar 3, 2008 11:28 AM PST reply actions  

The answer to that question
is no.
Victory or until next year!

by ncrpz2 on Mar 3, 2008 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

'06 Tourney
It was either Packer, Nantz, or both who just spent like 10 minutes on live, national TV criticizing the Tourney selection committee for bad picks.  While we as fans (not just of UCLA - all fans) spend plenty of time wishing the seedings went differently, and it is good for those in the newsmedia to be upfront and honest, Packer (and possibly Nantz) were absolutely classless and rude when they ranted about those seeds.  
Proud to be a lifelong Bruin

by omnigeno on Mar 3, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

If I remember correctly
it was Packer who was rude and classless. Nantz was critical, but had a well reasoned argument with facts to back up his claims. he just presented those facts and asked the committee chair what facts the committee used. Packer went off on the committee chair and essentially told him he screwed up and called him an idiot (not actually, but he was implying it). Packer had no facts and never presented an argument out side of "how could you do this?!?!?"

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 3, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

There you go
Thanks for clarifying, rye.
Proud to be a lifelong Bruin

by omnigeno on Mar 3, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

That's just my recollection of it
I could be off and have missed Nantz being out of line as well. It'd be great if there was video of it somewhere. I looked, but couldn't find it.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 3, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

A different reason for saying "no"
I have only heard him on TeleGrok's highlights.  And that's because -- take careful note here -- I turn the sound down on the TV.  I am never agitated at the announcers because I don't hear them.  They are totally absolutely irrelevant to my enjoyment of the game, and indeed from what I read here they are only annoying.  So spare yourself the grief - just say no to the volume control.

Quick quiz - did you know that it was AZ's ball with 6 second to go when we knocked it out of bounds?  Did you know that a two-point shot would tie us, and a three point shot would beat us?  Did you know when Bayless shot the ball from between his legs that it was unlikely that it would go in?

Extra credit - just looking at that guy who had the open shot, it was clear to me without announcers that the coach had set up a three-pointer for the win, and the kid was just doing what the coach said.  Did I need the announcers to deduce that?  No.  Could I be mistaken?  Sure.  But were the announcers privy to what the coach said in AZ's huddle?  No.  

Conclusion.  All announcers - yes, even Vinnie - are unnecessary when the sport can be seen (except maybe for curling, or things that aren't played by most of us as we were growing up.  Some announcers are so bad that it's best to leave the radio off, and just watch the play by play on the computer.

You youngsters are going to get premature ulcers listening to these idiots who in truth know less about the game than you do.

by Fox 71 on Mar 3, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

No Fox...noooooo
Announcers are unnecessary, but Vinnie is more than an announcer.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 3, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

sorry, Rye, but it is what it is
to coin a phrase.

There doesn't have to be a game to enjoy hearing Vinnie tell stories.  But when there is a game, you usually don't need Vinnie to help you understand what's going on.  Vinnie adds things, but he's not one hundred per cent necessary.

The rest of the Dodger announcers - nope.  Sorry.  Rick Monday was OK as long as it was just him in the booth.  But in my opinion, when there is more than one person in the booth, the game gets relegated to second place behind the chit-chat and cuteness.

I assume Vinnie works alone.  I can't imagine him wanting anyone else in the booth.  

But take Vinnie out of the equation - I will grant you that he's a special case.  Is there any other announcer now living that you need to hear?  (That accounts for the late Chick Hearn.)

by Fox 71 on Mar 3, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I took our advice
and began muting the games and it's been wonderful, but I do listen to Vinnie.

And yes he does still work alone.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 3, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't do it with the mute button
because the words cover the bottom of the picture, and I find myself reading them and getting almost as aggravated.

Could you imagine getting hired by the Dodgers as a rookie announcer and being told that you would be working as Vinnie's color man for a year or two?  It would be a nice gig, but you sure shouldn't say anything.

Has Vinnie said anything about retiring?  He started in 1949, I believe, so he's closing in on 60 years at the mike.  I always wondered how he could take seeing the Dodgers lose so many games.  

by Fox 71 on Mar 3, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I think his contract goes through this year
I'm sure it's his decision when he wants to step aside.  He doesn't travel much anymore.  He sticks mainly to the division, though he did make an exception when the Dodgers played in Boston a few years ago.

by bruinbabe2000 on Mar 3, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Bob Miller and Jim Fox
The LA Kings announcers call a good game and are very insightful about the nuances of the game. It's too bad the product has been awful, but it should get better in the years to come. I also think the new Laker radio guy Spiro is pretty decent.

by UCLA4Life on Mar 4, 2008 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Fox71 and Vin Scully
Fox71.... Is it at all possible you have been out in the sun too much down in Florida? Vin Scully is as much an institution in his craft as other revered folks are on this site. In respect to him, I for one, would always want to catch each golden word from his mike. If he called me and asked me to jump off the nearest building..... He is the best.
Even when one of his son's was matriculating at Pepperdine, I was told by the father of his son's roomate that he called both his son and roomate in and related their special responsiblity to honor the real and associated legacy and behave themselves at school. No hot shot, egoistic approach. Solid as they come...
Bill
BillSouthBay

by Mensgym on Mar 3, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

AMEN!!!
you can listen to Vin Scully if you don't even like baseball or the dodgers. He is a magician behind the mike.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Mar 3, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay, okay
Maybe I went a little too far including Vinnie in with the rest of them.  I am indebted to Vinnie for making basically everyone in LA into Dodger fans when the radio was all there was.  He probably would have been a legend just because he was the Dodger announcer without being the best announcer ever.  But it is a fact that he was (and is) the best announcer ever, and that probably more than anything else has made me such a firm advocate of turning the volume down.  

I remember vividly when Hodges scored the winning run in the play-offs in '59 and Vinnie said "... and we go to Chicago."  

I wonder if it would have been different if I had grown up listening to some absolute douche-bag.  Maybe I would think Packer was pretty good.  Naw.  

by Fox 71 on Mar 3, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Packer and Nantz are terrible
Nantz is too enamored of his own voice. Packer is the king of euphemisms and malapropisms. He never says anything useful. They call a basketball game with the passion of an oral surgeon yanking out a bad tooth. It's college basketball. Show some excitement. Provide insight. Don't kiss ass and don't show that you hate a team or a coach. That's it.

How is it possible that CBS continues to pay these two hacks as if they are the stars of the college basketball broadcasts? They could find a guy off the street who would do a better job. Or they could go down their roster of announcers and pull in someone who would improve things--Gus Johnson, Jay Bilas, even Bill Raftery. Just anybody but these two.

by BruinsRule on Mar 3, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Gus Johnson is hilarious
He is underused by CBS, but I think that's because he is one of the announcers for the Knicks.  To quote something I saw on YouTube, "Gus Johnson is the only thing good about Knicks basketball these days."

by bruinbabe2000 on Mar 3, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I love Gus Johnson
Because he was a part of this

by Tydides on Mar 3, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly
Later in 2006, Mr. BB and I were flipping through NFL Sunday Ticket to see if any games were going down to the wire.  I forget who was playing, but it was two crap teams and Gus Johnson was announcing.  We stayed with that game because it was going down to the wire and Gus Johnson was being himself.

by bruinbabe2000 on Mar 3, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you
Thank you for posting that video.

That game was when I first learned about Gus Johnson, and I've been a huge fan of his since.

He's one of the few that should be the exception to Fox's will advised mute rule. (Rye, I'll back you up, Vin Scully should be on this list too).

by gilbert on Mar 3, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

gus
is simply the best in march...god that clip alone just brings on such a wave of emotion...i was just in tears hugging my dad...what an emotional roller coaster that game was
O.A.

by Ollie on Mar 3, 2008 10:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Played on the baseball team too
Neither Wikipedia nor his website mention anything about any grad school.

Evidently, you can buy ringtones of his voice saying something about your school (...or introducing Barack Obama as President). Also, the site has a schedule of his future games - he'll be on the Pac-10 Championship game.

by jaffa on Mar 4, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh
no one believed in '95 and that turned out to be a pretty decent year. Maybe we have better luck when no one believes? Plus, if we cut down the nets in San Antonio, we might get our greatest wish and get a silent Billy Packer.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 3, 2008 12:42 PM PST reply actions  

I believed in 1995
Hold on Rye... I believed in the team in 1995 because they had a 5th year senior who was inspirational enough with the team that they rose up with him. I was disappointed in the Mizzou game but elated at the end, as you can imagine. However, I thought all year that the team had that extra "secret sauce" of ingredients to get them over the top....
Bill
BillSouthBay

by Mensgym on Mar 3, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't mean us fans
we actually watch the game. I was referring to the MSM who watches the highlights then makes absolute statements. We're getting a lot more love from the media this season than in '95 though. Analysts such as Bilas, Schlabach and Lunardi have all picked us to win the title.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Mar 3, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

As an aside
In one of their numerous bits of filler, ESPN has been posting some lists. One of them is the 25 greatest basketball players of all time.
As of today, they are counting down and at number 6, and so far, there are no Bruins in the list.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230172

Bob O. (Signholder #3)

by TuneMan7 on Mar 3, 2008 1:24 PM PST reply actions  

That's because 1-5
are all Bruins :)
Proud to be a lifelong Bruin

by omnigeno on Mar 3, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

could be
Alcindor
Walton
Wicks
Goodrich
(I'll leave one for suspense -- John Vallely was a clutch guy who could be added.)

by Fox 71 on Mar 3, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly
I told my co workers it was a sham that ESPN could make a list of the so called '25 greatest college players' so far (this was a few days ago)and for them to not include Bruins on their list. For good measure I rattled off 8 names that I thought worthy of inclusion on their list. Each one was superior to Pistol Pete (who never made the tourney)

Is it me or does that list seem extremely east coast biased? Outside of Bill Russel, is there any one on that list who played ball west of the Mississippi River?

Victory or until next year!

by ncrpz2 on Mar 3, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Get ready to hate on ESPN
Only the Big Red Head and Kareem will make the list.  The others will be Oscar R, Pistol Pete and Bill Russell.  Sidney, Marques, Gale, Walt and Ed O will be left off completely (if only Reggie had a coach).  If Kareem and Walton aren't 1 and 2...

by idabruin87 on Mar 3, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Update
Only 3 players left and no Bruins.  The top 3 will no doubt be Kareem, Walton and Oscar Robertson, in some order.
Bob O. (Signholder #3)

by TuneMan7 on Mar 5, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Great Post 68
I must admit, I like Donnie Mac's calls of our games.
sjh

by Class of 66 on Mar 3, 2008 6:24 PM PST reply actions  

whp
You need to blog some more brother.

Great post.

by Nestor on Mar 3, 2008 6:24 PM PST reply actions  

Thank you..
..high praise from Hestor and SJH -- two whom I admire greatly. I appreciate the kind words from all and will endavor to do so. If I haven't  it is because I am spending too much time reading all of the other great posts on this site.

By the way, congrats Nestor (and all of the others) on your well-deserved recognition. Bar none, the analysis and insight here lays bare the MSM drones and their frivilous persiflage. Were this a blog on professional bowling or torunament bridge, it would be almost as captivating so good is the commentary here.

God, it's great to be a Bruin!

by whp68 on Mar 4, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

"Persiflage"
Ahh, whp - you have shown the breadth and scope of your erudition.  That word is used only once in the English language - when Koko says "Is this a time for airy persiflage" in the Mikado.  Don't deny it -- you're a G & S fan (as everyone should be.)

by Fox 71 on Mar 4, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Hardly
Fox, my dear friend, I confess I heard airy persiflage from my high school chum, fraternity brother, room mate, and now spent ultra-runner, Hollis Lenderking, brains and muscle behind San Francisco's "Fear and Loathing Ultra".

Except for the ditty about the "Modern Major General", I am not a devotee of G&S (I am devoted to reviving G&Ts, John Mortimer, and Horace Rumpole, however.)

G&S was ruined for me by an ardent eighth grade teacher at Portola Valley School. She was of French lineage, prone to tight skirts, sweaters, immoderate makeup School and insisted the entire class throw together a production of Iolanthe. Alas, I was cast as one of the fairies on the periphery of the drama and, at that age, found it more than traumatic to parade around in tights and be regarded as a fairy. (It having become more acceptable to others today -- particularly in the Castro District.)

I rebelled and, with the aid of a sympathetic mother, affected an illness on the night of the performance, thus escaping the humiliation.

My loathing of that experience has regrettably tainted my appreciation for W. S. and Arthur's work to this day.

Tan-tan-ta-ra!

God, it's great to be a Bruin!

by whp68 on Mar 5, 2008 6:22 AM PST up reply actions  

You need to give it another try
My first principal role was the Lord Chancellor - four solos including the dreaded Nightmare song.  I'm sure you would be at least a Peer if you tried it again, not a fairy.

And for you Philistines who are unenlightened about G&S in general and Iolanthe in particular, there are always tractor pulls or American Idol, I suppose.

by Fox 71 on Mar 5, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

..er, Nestor
(sorry)
God, it's great to be a Bruin!

by whp68 on Mar 4, 2008 11:23 AM PST reply actions  

Sesquipedalianism
Good thing there is not a lot of it on this site otherwise I may get confused.

Persiflage......sheesh, your killing me here.

by artybruin on Mar 4, 2008 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

For those not enamored with Mr. Packer
I just found a petition to remove Billy Packer from CBS's broadcasts. Not sure how long the petition has been up, but it is not at over 5,200 signatures. Not that I have much faith in CBS to pay attention, but at least it is a way to register our discontent, if nothing else.

by bruinhoo on Mar 4, 2008 11:04 PM PST reply actions  

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