"Yes, and I do not think it is even close."

by Achilles on Apr 25, 2008 9:11 PM PDT in Football

Brian Dohn, blogging in the Daily News comes out and says what I've been thinking since the beginning of spring:

in your five years covering the football team, is the least talented group of players you've observed? (I'm not counting the incoming freshman class in this observation)

Yes, and I do not think it is even close.

Let's be clear: Karl Dorrell may have damaged the football program far more seriously than Steve Lavin damaged the basketball program. It only took Ben Howland one great recruiting class (Aaron Afflalo, Jordan Farmar, Lo Mata, Josh Shipp) to put the basketball program back on track. The task facing Rick Neuheisel is far, far more daunting.

I'm disinterested in the relative differences between the UCLA basketball and football programs and the general differences between football and basketball. Comparing Karl Dorrell and Steve Lavin is like comparing hanging to the firing squad.

The point is, while the football team may be populated mostly by good kids with good hearts and good grades, they simply lack the talent to seriously compete in the Pac 10 conference.

This is particularly true along the offensive line. I'm loathe to take Dohn all that seriously, but when he agrees with me, I guess I'll quote him again:

Why is the talent on the offensive line so depleted this year? Was the problem a lack of quantity or poor class spacing in recruiting (poor planning), a lack of quantity (poor talent evaluation) or both?

The quantity wasn't the issue, but you are on the money with the other things. Plus, many of these kids were recruited for Tom Cable's finesse style of blocking, then were asked to be power blockers.

I don't know what the reasons are, I just know the offensive line is easily the worst in terms of talent that I can remember. Again, I'm not picking on the kid's effort or desire -- I'm merely stating the obvious: they aren't all that good. Not only that, there is no depth at all.

I've no doubt enthusiasm will be high at Saturday's scrimmage. That's what the spring scrimmage is all about. If you're going, have fun. But don't get too excited. Enthusiasm rooted in the hiring of the infectious Neuheisel and his hiring of Norm Chow, his retention of DeWayne Walker and some top recruits arriving in the fall, must be tempered by the realization that the former coach left the cupboard largely bare.

0 recs | Comment 29 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Sad

Sad to see that the cupboard has been left so empty. But I have higher expectations of CRN than I did of CBH in his first year.

In basketball, talent rules all. You can have a great coach and he will get you far, but without the talent, you are still sunk.

In football you can scheme around talent and make up for your defficiences in ways not possible with only 5 guys on the court. Football is a game of discipline and a disciplined team that pays attention to detail and can execute well will beat a more talented team.

The PAC 10 usually lacks highly disciplined teams and many of them can be beaten by inferior talent. I am not expecting CRN to win the conference, but I do expect that he can win some games he should lose on paper. I also expect that he should make the team stop committing stupid mistakes.

I don't know what the final record will be for the season and I don't much care. If CRN really is the savior, we will see the signs of it in his players all season no matter what the talent level. Hopefully we will see more wins than anyone expects.

by Rhapsode on Apr 25, 2008 9:31 PM PDT 0 recs

Yeah, but again consider the source

It's true that a broken clock is still accurate twice a day. It's true that all the stories about our offensive linemen don't generally have happy endings. But still it's a quote from Doh!, which means that there could very well be a five or six or seven way time for the Outland Trophy with our linemen.

Nestor, one request please. Have pity on a geezer - say in the subject line when you're going to use Doh! as a source. I need the time to take a Maalox and get everything settled down before I read anything that particular gentleman has to say.

by Fox 71 on Apr 25, 2008 9:37 PM PDT 0 recs

Oops - ... seven way time = seven way tie

by Fox 71 on Apr 25, 2008 9:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

Credibility?

Dohn has none.

This is the guy who wanted to give KD another year to prove himself. Just think of what this year would be like, with KD and his staff.

CRN and staff will get these kids to play within a system that takes advantage of their skills and covers their weaknesses. That's all we can ask of a coach.

I, for one, think we will have a good year.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Apr 26, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

True, but

considering that Dohn used to stick up for CTS is kind of meaningful here, where he is saying that CTS actually screwed up in the recruiting. Anyway, we don't really need his acknowledgment, all we have to do is look at the games against Utah and BYU. No way we should ever lose to those teams.

by tasser10 on Apr 26, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up 0 recs

have a good year == meeting/beating expectations

Irrespective of Dohn's questionable prognostication, if he was such a big fan of KD and lobbied for his return and such an astute observer of the Bruin football program as his role implies, then why did he not see this gap before?

I am sure none on BN expects a national title the first year(sarcasm) and will be pleased with any team that plays up to or above its potential with enthusiasm and promise.

The recent bad fortune to PC is ironic -- BO, for all his pouting, will might have a shot this Fall when he comes back with from broken foot. (I wish both of them the very best of luck,) But, to get back to Dohn's consummate wizardry, after seeing two quarterbacks being beaten up last year (and the previous years) only now he recognizes the "Gap"?

One brittle quarterback, maybe, But two in the same program?

Not by a crock full of crap.

God, it's great to be a Bruin!

by whp68 on Apr 26, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up 0 recs

Dohn and Recruiting

Dohn was also the one pushing DeWayne for the HC job after his favorite (KD) was shown the door. Wasn't DeWayne the recruiting coordinator? If so, then this another in a seemingly endless string of marks against Dohn as a credible commentator. I understand that DeWayne was not responsible for all the recruiting classes currently on the team, but for Dohn to say this is the worst batch talent-wise, at least some of the responsibility should rest with the most recent recruiting coordinator.

by islandbruin on Apr 26, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up 0 recs

fox 71 is right

dohn a bonehead who should be covering one-legged kickboxing, not bruin football.
secondly who cares what a beat writer thinks about a team generally, what's he know? his job is to report what happens, not what will happen... what's his authority as a talent evaluator? if this was coming from various nfl scouts i might pay attention. and we fail to notice a major caveat in his evaluation- not including the incoming freshman class. we all know some of these kids are going to have major impacts, so to not include them in evaluating the team is a lazy and incomplete analysis, but what else would you expect from this guy?

Across The Face

by rb bruin on Apr 25, 2008 10:32 PM PDT 0 recs

Even sadder

when you consider how lightly regarded our graduating seniors are considered entering tomorrow's draft.

"Make each day your masterpiece" - JRW

by UCLAMD89 on Apr 25, 2008 10:33 PM PDT 0 recs

Line wins games.

That's the rule in football. If you can run the ball and pass protect, your team will be successful. And we saw what our line did last year. Whether Dohn has a good eye for football talent is debatable at best (and is pretty doubtful in my mind), but I'm not expecting to have a strong offensive line and an effective offense this fall.

Having said that, I am confident that with CRN and OCNC, the line will be well coached, will have fewer false starts, and will improve as the year goes along. But it may be 2 or 3 years before the staff brings in the type of talent we need to have a really effective offense.

128 days, 8 hours, 3 minutes...

greg in denver

by gbruin on Apr 26, 2008 8:59 AM PDT 0 recs

uninterested, not disinterested

sorry, it's a pet peeve.

coaching in baseball is near meaningless. coaching in football is huge. this team is not going undefeated, but the right coaches can take a team of average talent and turn it into a winner. see it all the time.

by jjreicher on Apr 26, 2008 9:03 AM PDT 0 recs

Well good morning

...to you too!

"...like comparing hanging to the firing squad."

A very effective way of expressing =NO COMPARISON. I'll take the bullet EVERY TIME.

See you guys under the pressbox (RB).

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 26, 2008 9:25 AM PDT 0 recs

Unless..

..the riflemen in your firing squad are bad marksmen, you'll only have to take the bullet once. But your point is valid.

God, it's great to be a Bruin!

by whp68 on Apr 26, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up 0 recs

Not so sure about that

I think Wallace Wilkerson may have disagreed with you on that point.

by bruinhoo on Apr 26, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up 0 recs

On the other hand

How a Hanging is Supposed to Work

Though nobody really knows how long it takes a person to die from hanging, experts say it is probably anywhere from a few seconds to a couple of minutes...

If the victims fall more than the prescribed distance, they may even pick up enough speed that the noose itself decapitates them.

by SuperBruinMan on Apr 26, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

all happier endings

I would submit, than another year under --ahem-- you know who.

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 27, 2008 6:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

re: Cowan

Can Patrick get a medical redshirt?

by Jack Disco on Apr 26, 2008 7:32 PM PDT 0 recs

re: Cupboard...

Wait, we can't fall into the trap that a lot of Notre Dame fans fell into. You get rid of a coach to find one who will change things, no matter the talent on the field. The clock stops on the last guy when the new guy starts. Dirk Koetter (sp?) couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag and Arizona State damn near got Carpenter killed with their O-Line last year, but Erikson got the job done. That's what I expect from RN. I'm pretty sure that during the interview, he didn't give any caveats to how he expects the team to perform. And if KD left the cupboard bare, then I expect RN to pull some rabbits out of the hat. Not a NC per se, but better than 6-7.

by Jack Disco on Apr 26, 2008 10:19 PM PDT 0 recs

Aaah no

Changing things entails lot more than increasing win totals. Howland in his first two years record wise didn't accomplish more than what Lavin did in his last two years at UCLA. Yet what Howland did was the changing the culture of UCLA hoops.

The change we are looking from CRN in his first 2 years is not necessarily increasing win totals, but changing how we play the game. Come out with an aggressive, no fear mentality on both sides of the ball. UCLA doesn't have any talent in the program. Just look at the NFL draft from yesterday. It is a disgrace what Dorrell turned this program. So it will be ridiculous to subject CRN to same expectations record wise to what Dorrell was in his 4th and 5ht year at UCLA.

by Nestor on Apr 27, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up 0 recs

re: Aah no

Then how long does RN get? Here's my beef. At Notre Dame, the cry was the same. Willingham left the cupboard dry because of the rank of the recruiting classes. But Weis goes to two BCS bowls his first two years with Willingham's kids and he's a genius. Third year, with his own kids, he stinks up the joint.

So we've just put RN in a no lose position. I agree that RN will bring more exciting ball. But we've just given him a two year pass. If they go .500 for two years, we conveniently blame it on KD. If RN wins, then he's a genius.

by Jack Disco on Apr 27, 2008 3:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

Jack

I mean "Oski Baby" go back to Cal boards dude. We know who you are.

by Nestor on Apr 27, 2008 7:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

Aaah I see

Now I get why "Jack Disco" is coming on to BN to impose his expectations on CRN. Jack is no other than "Oski Baby" a Cal fan who got banned from for being a total **&&%%.

by Nestor on Apr 27, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

Wait...

I have two degrees from UCLA, my BA and MFA. That disqualifies me from talking about the Bruins?

by Jack Disco on Apr 27, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

but wait so...

but wait so...
are you "oski baby" or not, yo?

A few big problems with your CRN analysis:

(1)We need to leave Weiss and ND out of the test group. ND is the only program with a BCS Bowl rule set up just for them. There's half the reason that Fat Weiss took the job in the first place. Along with two of the biggest Holiday gifts one coach ever gave to another (thanks again, Karl) at ND, a BCS bid is a PERQ.

(2) As for A-State, Erickson is a turnaround SPECIALIST. That's what he DOES: Burn twice as bright for half as long. Now the Devils should be fun to watch this season. They will compete. But you're about as likely to see them ride last year's rocketship as you are to find Dennis Erickson still coaching there in two seasons' time. Along with the benefit of a super low academic bar Lisa Love enjoys in Tempe, there are many huge holes in any argument that comparing the Arizona State and UCLA Football programs.

(3) We need to all agree on the difference between making Bowl Game/Tournament appearances and actually building an athletic program. One requires little more than a playbook, a headset and a couple key hires; the other, a scholar's grasp of an entire landscape of young, ambitious athletes, their parents, the media, campus, booster and NCAA politics. That all comes before fighting to keep a program intact and competitive with the ever-corrupting influence of the pro leagues.

To put CRN's true challenge/opportunity into perspective in this regard would take up way more time and space than I have, but suffice to say: Barring any inexcusable deeds, the jury will not reconvene on the Rick Neuheisel hire until AT LEAST 3-seasons from now.

Now you can be pessimistic and attribute that rationale to the ultra-low performance bar set by his predecessor if you want, but most here who suffered through 5-years of the KD meltdown would choose to the mark to market approach on Neuheisel. That is, take a look out across the wider coaching realm and tell me what you see... a bunch of hightly paid mercenaries whose only allegience is to their contract and whoe SOLE MOTIVATION is monetary. They make promises they don't keep. They play only for today. They leave before their work is done.

When you look back with an eye to the future, Neuheisel's relative valuation goes through the roof: The guy is SUPER QUALIFIED, SUPER MOTIVATED and quite simply IN LOVE WITH HIS JOB.

In truth, I believe Rick Neuheisel would do this job FOR FREE (ask anyone who knows anyone who knows him) and that right there makes him PRICELESS.

It's like that wide, smile you smile laying on your back the beach. The only thing sweeter than sitting on a fortune is thinking about all that interest. And CRN is already paying dividends.

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 27, 2008 7:31 PM PDT up 0 recs

He is "Oski Baby"

We have IP matches.

He can cry all he wants but his opinion as a Cal fan means nothing when it comes to UCLA football.

by Nestor on Apr 27, 2008 7:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

Uh huh

This is what disqualifies you OskiBaby:

Cal undergrad and UCLA grad. I've been reading this blog for a long while without commenting and you guys are going to get what you deserve. Dwayne Walker will walk and your recruiting class is going to disappear. Slick Rick won't be able to do all of his old tricks like calling recruits from his car while outside the kids house. And since UCLA has the WORST rep when it comes to recruiting the inner city, expect USC to continue to dominate in that area. And yeah, Cal will take their share of this year's UCLA commits. When it comes to UCLA football, UCLA never gets it right.

Yeah we sure lost Walker. lol

So get lost dude.

We also know you have registered an account under user name "Murphy Hall." If you start with more concern trolling nonsense again, that account will be gone too.

by Nestor on Apr 27, 2008 7:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

damn you guys

got 'em on LOCK. So why does Cal-boy even bother? What's his point?

He was right about one thing: We really did get what we deserved! Hate on, I guess.

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 27, 2008 8:06 PM PDT up 0 recs

but wait so...

are you "oski baby" or not, yo?

A few big problems with your CRN analysis:

(2) As for A-State, Erickson is a turnaround SPECIALIST. That's what he DOES: Burn twice as bright for half as long. Now the Devils should be fun to watch this season. They will compete. But you're about as likely to see them ride last year's rocketship as you are to find Dennis Erickson still coaching there in two seasons' time. Along with the benefit of a super low academic bar Lisa Love enjoys in Tempe, there are many huge holes in any argument that comparing the Arizona State and UCLA Football programs.

To put CRN's true challenge/opportunity into perspective in this regard would take up way more time and space than I have, but suffice to say: Barring any inexcusable deeds, the jury will not reconvene on the Rick Neuheisel hire until AT LEAST 3-seasons from now.

When you look back with an eye to the future, Neuheisel's relative valuation goes through the roof: The guy is SUPER QUALIFIED, SUPER MOTIVATED and quite simply IN LOVE WITH HIS JOB.

In truth, I believe Rick Neuheisel would do this job FOR FREE (ask anyone who knows anyone who knows him) and that right there makes him PRICELESS.

It's like that wide, smile you smile laying on your back the beach. The only thing sweeter than sitting on a fortune is thinking about all that interest. And CRN is already paying dividends.

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 27, 2008 7:31 PM PDT 0 recs